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[✗] [Magic Lore][Misc] Astral Sorcery


Mr. Etan

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Amazing lore as always, but this piece in particular is just thematically perfect.

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4 hours ago, Luciloo said:

 

Is this referring to any connection? Attunement is just the specific Druidic nomenclature for connection to the Aspects. Is a Paladin capable of learning Astral Sorcery? Housemages are 'connected' with their mana pool too, are they unable to learn?

 

Outline exactly which magics are compatible and incompatible.

 

I really appreciate your feedback I'll be sure to expand upon this section with a bit of research.

 

31 minutes ago, DesiredBreakfast said:

 

Within the Current Combat rules that can be found here it states that while in CRP or Roll Combat "You may only move four blocks per emote". With this rule set in place wouldn't it make more sense to limit someone's movement speed when inside the constellation field to 2 blocks/meters per emote?

 

Oh hey I didn't know this I'll look into adding something for this. Thanks!

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I really enjoy the complexity of the magic rather than it just being "ooo stars ooo ahhh". its also nice to see a "whimsical magic" like you said. +1 from me!

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this slaps

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While I enjoy the theme of the magic, I do feel that it perhaps falls a bit short, though that can be forgiven depending on IC culture. My primary issues with the magic come from the mechanics employed, and the spells themselves.

 

1. Complete lack of any genuine 'weakness.' While it is true of this magic that stellar ink and magical tomes are required, these casting foci can be very easily circumvented through use of the magic itself, and the fact that Wands only necessitate having the tome on your person will eventually lead to a plate-armored star-mage with the tome secure in a bag, pouch, etc. such that it may not be easily ripped away from them. It was brought up in a private discord that it is true you can only carry a limited number of spells at any given time, the relative power of these spells handily patches the 'weakness' in such a limit, which will be expanded on further down. This magic completely lacks contemporary drawbacks, such as Voidal Weakness, Naztherak's physical weakness, etc. Only exhaustion as you expend spell slots, which is swiftly recovered out of combat.

 

2. Powercreep. From Tox's own admission in a private discord, many of these abilities are lifted from Arcanism; a magic which was explicitly shelved for its versatility and bloat, lack of counterplay, relative power compared to other voidal evocations and magics, and its widespread nature with little drawback. We can see much of these qualities reflected in Astral Sorcery, wherein the following abilities are present:

  1. A set of two healing abilities that stand as some of the more powerful among magic in general, surpassed (to my knowledge) only by Necro and Witch Doctor. These healing abilities are capable of immediately regenerating major wounds with no drawbacks, or in the case of the ritual version, entire limbs, organs, etc. The minor healing spell, mind you, only taking 3 emotes to cast, 2 if one has already connected. 
  2. A set of three shield spells, which are more powerful than the shielding capabilities currently possessed by Paladinism, which is, in comparison, a three slot magic powered by the Aengul of Guardianship. Paladin shields may be destroyed quicker than Astral shields, last for a shorter amount of time, and are far less versatile in the current iteration than the likes displayed by Astral Sorcery. Indeed, there isn't even a clause on energy or elemental based attacks, E.G Azdrazi dragonflame, Fire Evo, etc. 
  3. A conjurable weapon, which possess capabilities on par with Holy Affinity, in Paladinism. Taking 3 emotes, 4 spell slots, and a sword hilt, an Astral mage is now directly on-par with a Paladin of Xan in regards to melee-based enhancements with steel-strength weapons. I see no redlines regarding whether or not Astral Sorcery effects the likes of Phantoms, but I would assume such. 
  4. For 4 spell slots, and a one emote cast-time, a 5x5 area can cut a person's movement speed directly in half. In this case, 2 blocks. For comparison, to produce a similar effect, Mystic Blades utilizing Enervation require two emotes of direct physical contact with the individual they seek to slow. For obvious reasons, Constellation Field has numerous benefits over comparable spells possessed by other magics. 
  5. A magic bolt spell, that in comparison to Fire Evocation or other voidal sorceries, possesses distinctly powerful amounts of physical force when placed next to similar abilities, with the ability to enhance such further to possess the strength of a warhammer when colliding with a target. Now, perhaps this could be a negligible issue, if not for the following...
  6. Spells are not tier-gated, merely spell slot gated. Nowhere on any of the spells is it stated that you must be a certain tier to cast the magic, meaning that so long as your mana pool is sufficient, you may cast any of these spells should you have been taught. 

3. General lack of redlines. While I like the fact that the magic is largely freeform, the lack of redlines will lead to definite abuse in the future. E.G, Con. Field could be used to slow down projectiles mid flight in its current iteration, the speed at which swords are swung, etc. No stipulations on weapon size are given for Cosmic Blade, either. I'm sure I could grab more examples if I tried. 

 

I definitely enjoy the concept of a non-voidal arcane magic, the execution here frankly falls short and has the potential for great abuse, given its vague redlines, powerful mechanics, and the ability to be gained through self-teach Altars. I appreciate the effort that has gone into this magic, but it seems relatively rushed to me, and the lore itself has more than a few mechanical pit-falls and hedges in on a lot of other territory that has been covered by contemporary magic lores with none of the interesting depth or shine that comes with it. 

 

I will be holding off on leaving a +1 until the above issues are fixed, but I do think the concept of an astral-based magic lore does have merit and a place within current LoTC. 

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hahah ahyes arcanism but with a different name 

truly, this is real philposting hours 

astral magic is the dark souls of swiss-knife magics

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Lore isn’t badly written, but I agree with Boruto’s sentiment on Astral Magic:

 

“but please, have mercy.
In all honesty I do not think astral concepts deserve to be shoehorned into an applied lore magick. The idea of this niche is that it is by form and nature an unexplored and vague magick spoken of and described only to superficial lengths, while being otherwise torn entirely from pre-established facts and  lore enforced descriptions. The void is there already to satisfy the venue of sorcerous spells and teasing power from unseen chasms, so why appropriate another perfectly abstract concept meant strictly to countervail the void? I just don’t see the point.

I too once thought of writing on astral lores, but rightly came to the conclusion that the venue is better left well alone. It thrives thus far as an obscure realm withdrawn in entirety from all the glimmering elements we see casually deriving from the void. Just my honest thoughts.”

 

source:

 

Just a niche that I think is better left untouched for the aesthetic that’s trying to be achieved in the lore.

Edited by CaesarTheFirst
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I wrote a lot of the lore with Tox so I'll be responding to these points. Sorry for the lack of clarification when you asked earlier.
 

2 hours ago, altiar1011 said:

1. Complete lack of any genuine 'weakness.'

While a Lunarite casting implement can be used, it is able to be broken or taken from the caster. If they can't retrieve it, they would have to emote pulling out their tome and using even more mana and time to cast again after their focus is broken. In this time of fumbling around their safety could easily be compromised. Having an obvious casting implement in your hands is also a way to make others aware of your abilities and more cautious around you in the first place.

The need for Vesperal Ink adds another component that should be considered. It's something you mentioned but seemed to overlook the significance of. An Astral Sorcerer's tome is unique to other spell books because it takes a limited component to write the glyphs inside. This component can only be obtained once every 3 irl days(might be changed to a week) and is also used to preform rituals. We are currently considering adding a cool down on how often books can be created as well. If the source of the ink is compromised, it takes additional irl days to repair the Star Well. One being destroyed could render the Sorcerer powerless for quite a while, leaving them open to whoever or whatever decides to target them. 

Another drawback is Astral Sorcery's incompatibility with most other magics. Tox will work on expanding the list of incompatible magics listed in the lore. Speaking of incompatibilities, that's another drawback to the magic. It can't be stacked with most other forms of magic like Arcanism could be.

I firmly believe that not all magic needs to have physical weakness, aside from over exertion of the mana pool which is very easy to do with the higher tier spells.

 

2 hours ago, altiar1011 said:

2. Powercreep

While it's no secret a lot of inspiration was taken from Arcanism and even says so in the last paragraph of the lore, this is not an evocation and has lots of characteristics completely unique to it. As stated in the section about weaknesses, we are aware that this is an extensive magic with lots of capabilities. This is the reason it's not allowed to be stacked with most other forms of magic.

Healing Spells- The weaker healing spell is not just a magical fix all band aid. It cannot heal major wounds, as stated in the redlines of the spell, nor can it fix broken bones or anything of that sort. The starlight particles will form a clot of sorts onto one gash (cannot fix anything internally), or split up to assist with several small scrapes. The powerful ritual requires five T4 mages to even be done, and saps an entire star well of resources for 2 irl weeks. It is the craziest thing an astral mage can do but it has a huge drawback and takes a lot of manpower.

Shield spells- We will most likely be removing the conjurable shield that can be attached to the arm. The other two spells are a wall and a small dome that can be expanded, part of the utility options. They cannot be moved and require focus so you will not be able to preform any other actions while shielding. If this is seen as too powerful Tox will work with the other LT to fix the spells.

Conjurable weapon- This works like any regular sword would it's just an aesthetic star sword. The extra emotes can make it burn on contact because the stellar energy becomes compact heat but there's no other special properties. I don't specifically know the phantom lore but I'll look into it- pretty much it's made of magic so the sword can hurt anything that is harmed by magic. You can't cast anything else while using the sword, and you have to still be holding the tome/implement unless the hilt is made out of Lunarite.

Constellation Field- The one emote cast time was a typo and has be amended.

Bolt Spell- Star Bolt is a blunt damage spell that takes three entire emotes to cast for staggering damage, and an additional emote + extra expended energy for damage that can knock someone off their feet. We do think this is pretty balanced given the amount of time it takes to conjure the projectile but feel free to suggest changes and they will be considered.

Tier gating spells- They technically are tier gated. Each spell takes a certain number of slots in your spell book, and the number of spell slots you have depends on your tier. Certain spells take more slots than others because they are more difficult glyphs to create and activate, therefore a lower tier mage could not do them. This will be clarified in the lore.

 

2 hours ago, altiar1011 said:

3. General lack of redlines.

Stay tuned for more redlines. Thank you for the suggestions.

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Quote

While a Lunarite casting implement can be used, it is able to be broken or taken from the caster. If they can't retrieve it, they would have to emote pulling out their tome and using even more mana and time to cast again after their focus is broken. In this time of fumbling around their safety could easily be compromised. Having an obvious casting implement in your hands is also a way to make others aware of your abilities and more cautious around you in the first place.

The need for Vesperal Ink adds another component that should be considered. It's something you mentioned but seemed to overlook the significance of. An Astral Sorcerer's tome is unique to other spell books because it takes a limited component to write the glyphs inside. This component can only be obtained once every 3 irl days(might be changed to a week) and is also used to preform rituals. We are currently considering adding a cool down on how often books can be created as well. If the source of the ink is compromised, it takes additional irl days to repair the Star Well. One being destroyed could render the Sorcerer powerless for quite a while, leaving them open to whoever or whatever decides to target them. 

Another drawback is Astral Sorcery's incompatibility with most other magics. Tox will work on expanding the list of incompatible magics listed in the lore. Speaking of incompatibilities, that's another drawback to the magic. It can't be stacked with most other forms of magic like Arcanism could be.

I firmly believe that not all magic needs to have physical weakness, aside from over exertion of the mana pool which is very easy to do with the higher tier spells.

 

1. Lunarite is the strength of normal steel. With no cap on physical strength, armor limits, etc. this is not even a rebuttal. I have a lunarite poleaxe and I'm in full plate, with my spellbook firmly attached to my side via leather straps, concealed beneath a cloak. In this time, if you interrupt me casting, you will be getting hit directly in the face with the blunt end of a poleaxe head. 

 

2. This is all preparation elements, and again not even a 'weakness' as defined traditionally. If you are fighting an Astral mage, they already have their ink and tomes prepared, with access to a lineup of powerful combative abilities that outshine many other magic's contemporary abilities in comparison, with a complete lack of any limiting factor other than spell slots and the need for a spell focus, either a tome or an implement of Lunarite. If you are not already fighting them, you need to have knowledge of what Star Wells are, the necessity of Ink to the casting of Astral Sorcery, etc., which would require knowledge of this magic to be publicly available unless you want to encourage meta. You then need to locate a star well, and know with certainty that it belongs to a particular Astral mage. These structures, from the description, are rather small in comparison to Menhirs, Chanceries, and other such 'necessary' altars for other magics, requiring that in addition to finding the knowledge of what they even are, the task of locating one in the first place is incredibly arduous, as they can be kept within observatories, open-roofed buildings, etc, behind many locked doors and in cities if they wish, or even out in the middle of the wilderness. In the theoretical event of a starwell being destroyed, this does not negate any books they already possess, lunarite implements, etc. You stop further production for a time, this is true. But what already exists is not rendered powerless. 

 

3. If your magic does everything well, then the incompatibility is a non-issue. And what magics are compatible with it will result in a powerful combination. For example, Kani.

 

4. Perhaps not physical, but your magic having few drawbacks overall, and those drawbacks being incredibly hard to exploit, is also something I am firmly against. 

 

Quote

While it's no secret a lot of inspiration was taken from Arcanism and even says so in the last paragraph of the lore, this is not an evocation and has lots of characteristics completely unique to it. As stated in the section about weaknesses, we are aware that this is an extensive magic with lots of capabilities. This is the reason it's not allowed to be stacked with most other forms of magic.

Healing Spells- The weaker healing spell is not just a magical fix all band aid. It cannot heal major wounds, as stated in the redlines of the spell, nor can it fix broken bones or anything of that sort. The starlight particles will form a clot of sorts onto one gash (cannot fix anything internally), or split up to assist with several small scrapes. The powerful ritual requires five T4 mages to even be done, and saps an entire star well of resources for 2 irl weeks. It is the craziest thing an astral mage can do but it has a huge drawback and takes a lot of manpower.

Shield spells- We will most likely be removing the conjurable shield that can be attached to the arm. The other two spells are a wall and a small dome that can be expanded, part of the utility options. They cannot be moved and require focus so you will not be able to preform any other actions while shielding. If this is seen as too powerful Tox will work with the other LT to fix the spells.

Conjurable weapon- This works like any regular sword would it's just an aesthetic star sword. The extra emotes can make it burn on contact because the stellar energy becomes compact heat but there's no other special properties. I don't specifically know the phantom lore but I'll look into it- pretty much it's made of magic so the sword can hurt anything that is harmed by magic. You can't cast anything else while using the sword, and you have to still be holding the tome/implement unless the hilt is made out of Lunarite.

Constellation Field- The one emote cast time was a typo and has be amended.

Bolt Spell- Star Bolt is a blunt damage spell that takes three entire emotes to cast for staggering damage, and an additional emote + extra expended energy for damage that can knock someone off their feet. We do think this is pretty balanced given the amount of time it takes to conjure the projectile but feel free to suggest changes and they will be considered.

Tier gating spells- They technically are tier gated. Each spell takes a certain number of slots in your spell book, and the number of spell slots you have depends on your tier. Certain spells take more slots than others because they are more difficult glyphs to create and activate, therefore a lower tier mage could not do them. This will be clarified in the lore.

 

1 (Healing Spells). Per your redlines, (Absolutely positively CANNOT be used to heal or restore: Missing Limbs, Organs, broken bones, very large gashes, heal the dying or bring back the dead,) many things that would otherwise spell fatal in eventuality are able to be mended in comparison to things like Paladinism Mist Healing, Fire Evo Cauterize, etc. with absolutely no drawbacks afterwards. Whereas Witch Doctor curses you in exchange for swift healing, and IIRC Necro leaves the area horribly disfigured, this is a clean slate, squeaky clean replacement and fixing of Injuries. 

 

2 (Shield spells). Similar to Paladinism, yes. And Mystic Walling. Except this does these things better with none of the associated baggage of either magic. Nor did you mention the point on a lack of redlines or explanation regarding energy-based attacks, which is rather important when it comes to magical shielding. Does this block all energy based attacks? A certain amount? Not at all? Clarification is needed, because at current, the shield spells do everything that Pally and Mystic shields do, but better for less a price. 

 

3. (Firesord). So you've still got a Holy Affinity-esque powered weapon capable of damaging things weak to magical energy, rather than holy energy, and regardless of weakness it still physically burns things, meaning anything weak to fire remains on the chopping block. The only similar ability that I know of offhand would be the Graven's Summon Weapon, which comes with a hefty amount of redlines, weakness to Aurum, and can only make contact with Phantoms as mundane steel would effect a normal person.  

 

4. (Con. Field). 3 emotes is still incredibly fast for such a heavy debuff in an action economy wherein you can only move four blocks, and you didn't address any of the other points I brought up regarding the ability; if gravity is manipulated, everything slows down unless it is uneffected by gravity. 

 

5. (Bolt). Fire Evocation's basic firebolt takes three emotes to conjure, and unless one uses a T5 ability, is an impact-less ball of mundane fire that is easily blocked by armor. In comparison, Star Bolt is a similar number of emotes, and if they would utilize a t1-accessible feature, this projectile hits with the impact of a warhammer wielded by a person of undefined strength. In comparison, a Combustive firebolt only hits as hard as a baseball. 

 

6. (Tier gate.) By tier 3 I can utilize every spell in the spell list at least once, under the current system. Meaning I can utilize Supernova if I so wished. I'd advise tier gating them properly. 

 

1 hour ago, Vaynth said:

Stay tuned for more redlines. Thank you for the suggestions.

 

Much obliged. 

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Oh hey my name is in here. Beautiful, as always Tox~ Stars are good, magic is good. So starmagic  must be twice as good

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stars aint that deep tho technically does this mean this magic is siphoning aengudaemonic energy since the stars are realms and the remnants of past aengudaemons?????

 

 

 

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favorite minecraft modpack

 

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@altiar1011
You made some good points about the Lunarite casting implements making the books too protected, so we've decided to remove them all together. In addition to this we included that Astral Sorcerers cannot wear more than half-plate armor (wearing too much metal will disrupt the flow of mana to the glyphs) and both hands must be preoccupied with casting. I think having a sole flammable casting implement will fix many of the issues you presented.

The healing spells will not have the ability to fix any kind of internal bleeding or complications. It's really not that strong. Cosmetic flaws are being considered.

We have added that the barriers can be shattered with powerful blasts of energy-based attacks, through they will absorb the initial shock.

The cosmic blade isn't made of fire it's pretty much like you took a regular metal sword and held it over a fire to make it hot upon contact. We've added that it takes the form of a chosen single handed blade, one you could find easily in the world. It can't do anything special it just gets hot with extra emotes as stated before. It being similar but not the same to an existing spell doesn't seem like an issue.

The debuff field has to be telegraphed before it is cast. It will be very obvious and easy to avoid- directly in front of the caster. We've added that it is projected directly to the ground, so projectiles will not be affected. It will be sort of like walking in sludge.

The bolt spell is being reworked to align better with similar existing spells, and the "war hammer" reference is being removed because I also thought that was silly and inaccurate to the strength the spell should be able to have.

Also we've now added actual tiers to spells.

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