Player Retention Report

[Burnsider 4542]

Look at those four gorgeous Freebuild Tiles (three if you insist on keeping CT there for no reason). 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uRSZkrFYkt3DpDdjF3ZrwgLeKC3nwEjn/view?usp=drivesdk

[Shorsand 1745]

2 hours ago, Burnsider said:

Look at those four gorgeous Freebuild Tiles (three if you insist on keeping CT there for no reason). 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uRSZkrFYkt3DpDdjF3ZrwgLeKC3nwEjn/view?usp=drivesdk

Idk, I think a good chunk of the plains and forests in the middle of the map would suit way better (or the entire savanna looking area in the far south near the volcano). Lotta empty space, nothing going on there, no roads really, etc.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Shorsand

[TheBigBubbles 670]

Hey! December 2020 new player here. These numbers are bewildering.

 

I have been ridiculously active since I started, especially in my first week. I think this has something to do with the process and I did actually have a CT monk help me find Haelun'or and such. Though I believe I would have found my own way about as I was pretty excited about the server based on what I had seen on the wiki and such.

 

I think that generally new players are accepted by the community fairly openly and the pink name tags help. Though it could be an issue of cliques there is a lot of OOC things to retain such as every single race and their various communities. I can see how this would be confusing and even overwhelming for a new player. Attempting to introduce people to a community they would likely click with would help I believe!

 

The tutorial island does a good job, though that is very overwhelming as it gives you information out of context... information the new player likely worries they wont get another chance to retain. Also... LOTC is quite intense at times, you can find yourself sinking many hours into it perhaps these players were just worried about their spare time taking a hit? I don't know I personally jived with the server straight away and don't see myself going inactive. Perhaps if OOC things get intense (school or something) however such circumstances aren't permanent.

 

Sorry for my unplanned rambles at 3:05am but they are my uneducated uninformed opinions and I hope they help bring some perspective on the issue?

[drfate786 1639]

Now we hit the truth of why LoTC's playercount is doomed to slowly deteriorate. I hinted at this for a year when I was in staff and no one listened and I doubt anyone will now. The core of the issue is actually in the community as well as the way the server is structured. Rules are often made in such a way that prevents interaction with the environment and other players, new players can't form their own communities or niches anymore since freebuild is gone.. Etc.

 

This leads to stagnation since new communities can't be made outside of pre-existing cities which in turn have their own often inclusive niches. I've been told that the only way I could start my own guild or group (which I would use to help new players btw) is to essentially make a new account and become a parasitic entity dwelling inside some city and use the players that I get as leverage to stop any malicious OOC actions. IE, if you hurt my guild I'll take all the players I recruited leave. Like, you have to be a manipulative sociopath to start a new group and new groups are the only groups able to retain players since the "bigger" factions aren't even factions but just a conglomerate of inclusive niches made up of veteran players.-

 

Freebuild may of seemed like a bad idea but in actuality it's what kept retention so high, without it there's no place for new players to congregate and form their own niches so they can  never eventually get attached to the server since there's nothing of interest to form that attachment. The community and server rules/structure is basically repelling most new players away and there's no end in sight to this. 

 

To further re-iterate, when new players join they are expecting something akin to a towny PVP faction server with heavy RP elements or something similar but are instead met with the inability to do anything. They end up wandering empty roads and typically aren't welcomed by other players unless they're looking to recruit these new players for their own personal gain. Often times, nation leaders don't even have the interests of these new players at heart and just use them to bolster their activity count. They end up feeling unsatisfied, used, bored etc and since they can't do anything, this leads to resentment.. So they just leave. Most will also quit after a few months because they slowly begin to realize that every group on the server is run by some "manipulative sociopath" that wants mineman power instead of progressing RP through meaningful conflict or story.

 

The server is bad so the players are bad, because the players and the server is subsequently awful the new players see this and leave. You want to fix retention? Start by pushing RP conflicts, narratives, etc and punish anyone that tries to be manipulative, deceitful or genuinely harmful to the playerbase when they're in a leadership position. So far we have a history of punishing anyone that does the opposite, Narthok, DPM, Dewper for example were actually good for the server despite also contributing to the harmful tendencies of nation leaders.

 

Sure, Narthok and co were toxic AF in many cases and did say things that urked admins BUT they also pushed RP, conflicts and in doing so made the server active. They weren't as manipulative as the staff makes them out to be and instead were the ones constantly being manipulated and baited by the opposing side OOC'ly. Narthok for example was a hothead, they saw that and used that so he would go against the staff instead of being diplomatic OOC'ly. 

 

This is really the core of the server's issue, whenever someone tries to push a narrative they are met by toxic players who refuse to PK their characters, they are met by abusive staff that ban them when they eventually lash out, they cease conflict when they are about to win and dissolve and stagnate a community that has been around for years through manipulation and deceit. Then?  When they are all banned and conflict is also subsequently banned with raids, PVP and just anything conflict related becoming a bannable offense they create a stagnating environment in which players have nothing to build towards. This is how it is right now and this is what has happened.

 

War is essential, conflict is essential. Character DEATHS are essential. It gives a way for things to move forward and that creates the activity for new players to thrive. It drives everything forward and gives people a reason to be active, without anything happening you have absolutely no reason to log on and play. There's no reason to assassinate or murder an opposing faction leader if he won't PK, there's no reason to push anything forward if there's no way to make it happen. It's amazing to see that no one in the administration has really grasped this as of yet. 

 

Start purging folks, you won't fix player retention otherwise.

 

 

17 hours ago, marilka said:

Stability ******* sucks.

 

So many players who are involved in high leadership positions, not just in the rp sense but even administration as a whole, seem so obsessed with this desire to provide stability, that they have traded out something that would be far more line with their larger goals which is, in truth, a little bit of chaos, at least in the sense of RP. In my first year as a new player, I entertained myself by first exploring the various different fantasy elements on the server, which has little to do with my main point, but I'm getting there. I eventually moved on to a different sect of RP, and was immediately embroiled in political chaos, conspiracy, investigation, high stakes RP. That is what has kept me on the server. That obviously won't apply to every new player out there, but the fact that I could pick and choose what felt right to me and actually had engaging, active content to immerse myself in is the main takeaway here. If I was that new player who joined purely to explore fantasy magic roleplay, and I joined today, I'd find a hell of a lot of difficulty getting behind a lot of the walls that have been put up around certain elements that are available to players by the people who believe themselves solely entitled to them. And you'd best believe I'd have a nigh-impossible task finding any of that lovely sedition roleplay. 

 

Chaos, in the pure form of the word, is a pain in the ass. It's stressful, causes problems, but problems are fun to solve for ****'s sake. Get comfortable with losing. You can still have fun on the losing side of a war. Stop getting your panties in a twist over it all. We should be letting stories happen, letting things change, letting things grow, letting people roleplay without feeling the need to police every little thing people do in order to maintain stability. Chaos can be fun. I remember the Jackals, I remember the divorce of Adelheid of Istria and John I, I remember the Year of Four Emperors, and so much more. I could rattle on for hours, but that's obviously not the point- and, is certainly a tunnel vision point of view, but I can only speak to what I experienced personally. And I miss it. A lot. None of that would slide anymore, you'd immediately be shot down in the name of maintaining propriety. If I joined today, all of that would be lost upon me, and I would have nothing of substance to entertain myself with except for going down an LoTC wiki deep-dive. War rules and raid rules are unconducive to real roleplay grievances and issues, and need to be genuinely reworked into a more fitting system that will honor roleplay instead of hinder it. Of course, all of this is only indicative of my experience and that of several of my close friends who joined around 2014 when I did, but I do believe that there is some truth in saying that this is all indicative of a larger issue; that of stagnation. Everywhere is stagnant. Nothing is the same, and nothing ever will be, but it's time to pull ourselves out of this rut and apply what we can from the past to the present and so forth. 

 

Another issue is this incessant grinding nonsense. Do you truly believe that having to sit around for hours mining blocks, waiting hours for them to regenerate and then doing it all again, then pasting each block in by hand is contributory in any way to an RP server? You'd have more luck trying to draw blood from stone. Bring back LC. Have players monitored. Create a team of people who are trustworthy and willing to sit there and schematica in a build quickly with LC so settlement players don't have to go through all of the mind-numbing motions of mine, wait, build, repeat. I don't care how you implement it, just make it happen.

 

You're concerned about player retention rates? Start listening to the people who are actually here.

 

They won't listen, they've never listened and never will. They're 100% anti-conflict and don't want any form of warfare where their favored side doesn't win, they're horrifically afraid of any form of instability and want control over every aspect of everyone and what they're doing on the server. Every time someone is close to changing the balance of power or do anything genuinely interesting or fun they're shut down. My advice? Quit the server because it's not changing.

 

Edit: Btw, I had someone do some digging on Discord and they went all the way back and got in contact with @Viper3X and other past admins, they all say that the server staff is horrifically corrupt going all the way back to Aegis and that NOTHING will EVER change as long as Tythus and Telanir remain in charge. You'd have to basically purge the entire admin team and even then they've made it so that anyone who could of taken over for them are permanently banned from the server. Ie, eliminated the competition. Why? Because the moment people recognize it for what it is they'd start leaving. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by drfate786

[drfate786 1639]

11 minutes ago, Lionbileti said:

Get better staff lol

 

The people who recruit staff are the problem, who's going to replace the head admins? 

[Cloakedsphere 1462]

3 hours ago, drfate786 said:

Now we hit the truth of why LoTC's playercount is doomed to slowly deteriorate. I hinted at this for a year when I was in staff and no one listened and I doubt anyone will now. The core of the issue is actually in the community as well as the way the server is structured. Rules are often made in such a way that prevents interaction with the environment and other players, new players can't form their own communities or niches anymore since freebuild is gone.. Etc.

 

This leads to stagnation since new communities can't be made outside of pre-existing cities which in turn have their own often inclusive niches. I've been told that the only way I could start my own guild or group (which I would use to help new players btw) is to essentially make a new account and become a parasitic entity dwelling inside some city and use the players that I get as leverage to stop any malicious OOC actions. IE, if you hurt my guild I'll take all the players I recruited leave. Like, you have to be a manipulative sociopath to start a new group and new groups are the only groups able to retain players since the "bigger" factions aren't even factions but just a conglomerate of inclusive niches made up of veteran players.-

 

Freebuild may of seemed like a bad idea but in actuality it's what kept retention so high, without it there's no place for new players to congregate and form their own niches so they can  never eventually get attached to the server since there's nothing of interest to form that attachment. The community and server rules/structure is basically repelling most new players away and there's no end in sight to this. 

 

To further re-iterate, when new players join they are expecting something akin to a towny PVP faction server with heavy RP elements or something similar but are instead met with the inability to do anything. They end up wandering empty roads and typically aren't welcomed by other players unless they're looking to recruit these new players for their own personal gain. Often times, nation leaders don't even have the interests of these new players at heart and just use them to bolster their activity count. They end up feeling unsatisfied, used, bored etc and since they can't do anything, this leads to resentment.. So they just leave. Most will also quit after a few months because they slowly begin to realize that every group on the server is run by some "manipulative sociopath" that wants mineman power instead of progressing RP through meaningful conflict or story.

 

The server is bad so the players are bad, because the players and the server is subsequently awful the new players see this and leave. You want to fix retention? Start by pushing RP conflicts, narratives, etc and punish anyone that tries to be manipulative, deceitful or genuinely harmful to the playerbase when they're in a leadership position. So far we have a history of punishing anyone that does the opposite, Narthok, DPM, Dewper for example were actually good for the server despite also contributing to the harmful tendencies of nation leaders.

 

Sure, Narthok and co were toxic AF in many cases and did say things that urked admins BUT they also pushed RP, conflicts and in doing so made the server active. They weren't as manipulative as the staff makes them out to be and instead were the ones constantly being manipulated and baited by the opposing side OOC'ly. Narthok for example was a hothead, they saw that and used that so he would go against the staff instead of being diplomatic OOC'ly. 

 

This is really the core of the server's issue, whenever someone tries to push a narrative they are met by toxic players who refuse to PK their characters, they are met by abusive staff that ban them when they eventually lash out, they cease conflict when they are about to win and dissolve and stagnate a community that has been around for years through manipulation and deceit. Then?  When they are all banned and conflict is also subsequently banned with raids, PVP and just anything conflict related becoming a bannable offense they create a stagnating environment in which players have nothing to build towards. This is how it is right now and this is what has happened.

 

War is essential, conflict is essential. Character DEATHS are essential. It gives a way for things to move forward and that creates the activity for new players to thrive. It drives everything forward and gives people a reason to be active, without anything happening you have absolutely no reason to log on and play. There's no reason to assassinate or murder an opposing faction leader if he won't PK, there's no reason to push anything forward if there's no way to make it happen. It's amazing to see that no one in the administration has really grasped this as of yet. 

 

Start purging folks, you won't fix player retention otherwise.

 

 

 

They won't listen, they've never listened and never will. They're 100% anti-conflict and don't want any form of warfare where their favored side doesn't win, they're horrifically afraid of any form of instability and want control over every aspect of everyone and what they're doing on the server. Every time someone is close to changing the balance of power or do anything genuinely interesting or fun they're shut down. My advice? Quit the server because it's not changing.

 

Edit: Btw, I had someone do some digging on Discord and they went all the way back and got in contact with @Viper3X and other past admins, they all say that the server staff is horrifically corrupt going all the way back to Aegis and that NOTHING will EVER change as long as Tythus and Telanir remain in charge. You'd have to basically purge the entire admin team and even then they've made it so that anyone who could of taken over for them are permanently banned from the server. Ie, eliminated the competition. Why? Because the moment people recognize it for what it is they'd start leaving. 

Im only going to contradict your edit statement. The staff team in Aegis, although obviously fresh, were about as unbias as they could've been. Since everything was so new, relationships werent built as strong as they were today. Tythus himself is a fine individual. So was everyone else (such as shiftnative, nekodanie, mogroka, etc.) but the issues arose after we left 3.0. We started to see a huge decline in player-staff relationships then when most of the original staff had left. Tythus isnt a tyrant. Nor is telanir. But neither of them want to put any effort in anymore and only 1 of them we currently still need due to the fact he has access to the server funds to keep it afloat. 

Telanir, although I like the guy, needs out. A new face on the head admin table is what we need and not a pick from the current admin list. I feel as if the entire current administration team could do much better and much more than they currently are with their power in improving a lot of the server. They're all too cushy with their positions and pawn them off on the many other (40+) members of staff. Which is ridiculous in of itself. We dont need this much staff if people would just do the job they VOLUNTEERED for. Rather than VOLUNTEERING for a fancy tag in game and on the forums.

[drfate786 1639]

1 minute ago, Cloakedsphere said:

Im only going to contradict your edit statement. The staff team in Aegis, although obviously fresh, were about as unbias as they could've been. Since everything was so new, relationships werent built as strong as they were today. Tythus himself is a fine individual. So was everyone else (such as shiftnative, nekodanie, mogroka, etc.) but the issues arose after we left 3.0. We started to see a huge decline in player-staff relationships then when most of the original staff had left. Tythus isnt a tyrant. Nor is telanir. But neither of them want to put any effort in anymore and only 1 of them we currently still need due to the fact he has access to the server funds to keep it afloat. 

Telanir, although I like the guy, needs out. A new face on the head admin table is what we need and not a pick from the current admin list. I feel as if the entire current administration team could do much better and much more than they currently are with their power in improving a lot of the server. They're all too cushy with their positions and pawn them off on the many other (40+) members of staff. Which is ridiculous in of itself. We dont need this much staff if people would just do the job they VOLUNTEERED for. Rather than VOLUNTEERING for a fancy tag in game and on the forums.

The staff team in Aegis was corrupt but "corrupt" back then was fine because we were all kids. It's really after 3.0 like you said that things started to take a big dump, they need to find heirs to give the server to like a network or something. Tythus doesn't need to keep funding the server nor does Telanir, they just need to find someone they can offload to. They've been given offers before and never took them so make of that what you will. 

[Ibn Khaldun 7728]

1 hour ago, Cloakedsphere said:

Im only going to contradict your edit statement. The staff team in Aegis, although obviously fresh, were about as unbias as they could've been. Since everything was so new, relationships werent built as strong as they were today. Tythus himself is a fine individual. So was everyone else (such as shiftnative, nekodanie, mogroka, etc.) but the issues arose after we left 3.0. We started to see a huge decline in player-staff relationships then when most of the original staff had left. Tythus isnt a tyrant. Nor is telanir. But neither of them want to put any effort in anymore and only 1 of them we currently still need due to the fact he has access to the server funds to keep it afloat. 

Telanir, although I like the guy, needs out. A new face on the head admin table is what we need and not a pick from the current admin list. I feel as if the entire current administration team could do much better and much more than they currently are with their power in improving a lot of the server. They're all too cushy with their positions and pawn them off on the many other (40+) members of staff. Which is ridiculous in of itself. We dont need this much staff if people would just do the job they VOLUNTEERED for. Rather than VOLUNTEERING for a fancy tag in game and on the forums.

 

I have to agree, and this is coming from someone who unfortunately threw my fair share of fits as a younger kid when I played the first year or so on the server. I definitely think the staff in Aegis did a stellar job looking back and found that they managed to do something that may belie people's issue with staff in more recent years - they looked at LotC as a game that they were, in a way, developers for as opposed to either getting too invested in their characters or inculcating the wrong kind of culture that either led to burnout or exerting their frustration through the privileges. Once again, I say this as someone who unfortunately did this in my early 1-2 years on the server.

Perhaps it is my current profession speaking, but I always found that staff, like game developers, should try to act in a professional/client manner. Try to gauge client feedback, construct goals based on feedback, attain said goal, then return to client for further feedback. Obviously, the majority of staff needs to think and operate in this way to actually build a culture of proficiency. I maintain optimism that it can be done so long as we make these terms clear and understandable and invite more and more people to consider adopting them.

 

As a side note:

 

Do you really need Telanir to make many of the changes asked for? For example, with freebuild, if enough staff members in an organized fashion set out to arrange freebuild - can it be done?

[Cloakedsphere 1462]

1 hour ago, Gaius Marius said:

 

I have to agree, and this is coming from someone who unfortunately threw my fair share of fits as a younger kid when I played the first year or so on the server. I definitely think the staff in Aegis did a stellar job looking back and found that they managed to do something that may belie people's issue with staff in more recent years - they looked at LotC as a game that they were, in a way, developers for as opposed to either getting too invested in their characters or inculcating the wrong kind of culture that either led to burnout or exerting their frustration through the privileges. Once again, I say this as someone who unfortunately did this in my early 1-2 years on the server.

Perhaps it is my current profession speaking, but I always found that staff, like game developers, should try to act in a professional/client manner. Try to gauge client feedback, construct goals based on feedback, attain said goal, then return to client for further feedback. Obviously, the majority of staff needs to think and operate in this way to actually build a culture of proficiency. I maintain optimism that it can be done so long as we make these terms clear and understandable and invite more and more people to consider adopting them.

 

As a side note:

 

Do you really need Telanir to make many of the changes asked for? For example, with freebuild, if enough staff members in an organized fashion set out to arrange freebuild - can it be done?

Before, yes, we needed Telanir to sign off on the idea of free build. Even though we had a good portion of staff who thought it was a good idea and I even had 2 other admins on my side. Sadly, big changes like that in the past required his approval. It might be different now but I dont imagine it being different at all with the way things are currently running. It is probably why LotC has stagnated a lot because a lot of good idea's are getting stone walled by no response or a negative response by the head admin and nothing being implemented. But its not just Telanir. I put the blame on the whole staff. It definitely starts at the top and works its way to the bottom but staff need to be more aware that they really arent doing much.

Nickrocky is the only one who's really contributed to LotC in any fashion since the new map with the release of vortex. Now the vortex craze is dying down, you're going to start to see people leave again. What are we doing? No wars? No bandit groups due to fear of being banned for what? Good bandit RP? No events happening or event lines being held by story team? No new lore? Hello?

Has anyone actually counted how many staff we currently have? We have over 40 people in the story team alone. Thats 1 staff team. We should have a max of 40 staff members across ALL staff teams. Not just 1 team in general. What happened? How did LotC become so top heavy? We are easily pushing close to 100 members on some form of staff or moderation team on LotC yet literally NOTHING new is being brought to the table or nothing is getting done. Like, honestly, what is going on here? LotC needs to clean house starting from the top and wiping out all the team and starting fresh again. Go back to forum moderators and global moderators and build from there again. There is just far too many hands in the cookie jar.

[drfate786 1639]

57 minutes ago, Gaius Marius said:

 

I have to agree, and this is coming from someone who unfortunately threw my fair share of fits as a younger kid when I played the first year or so on the server. I definitely think the staff in Aegis did a stellar job looking back and found that they managed to do something that may belie people's issue with staff in more recent years - they looked at LotC as a game that they were, in a way, developers for as opposed to either getting too invested in their characters or inculcating the wrong kind of culture that either led to burnout or exerting their frustration through the privileges. Once again, I say this as someone who unfortunately did this in my early 1-2 years on the server.

Perhaps it is my current profession speaking, but I always found that staff, like game developers, should try to act in a professional/client manner. Try to gauge client feedback, construct goals based on feedback, attain said goal, then return to client for further feedback. Obviously, the majority of staff needs to think and operate in this way to actually build a culture of proficiency. I maintain optimism that it can be done so long as we make these terms clear and understandable and invite more and more people to consider adopting them.

 

As a side note:

 

Do you really need Telanir to make many of the changes asked for? For example, with freebuild, if enough staff members in an organized fashion set out to arrange freebuild - can it be done?

 

This is all wrong, this is the mentality they have now. Telanir and by extension the entire admin staff are entirely business oriented and refuse to speak like a normal "person" would, they're incapable of actually speaking anything to the contrary and anyone who dissects their words carefully would know that they try to calculate each word.  I actually challenge them to prove otherwise by addressing this thread in a way that doesn't sound like a stock investor or business manager speaking to clientele, if you can't speak to the community like you would a friend then you don't come across as genuine. I've only seen Telanir in particular get "emotional" and genuine over DM's once and it was because Flamboyant was outted for something quite nasty and I showed him proof in DM's. I actually ended up getting so upset with Telanir due to his callous and stone-like mannerisms that after my forced departure from the build team I had to block him on discord for my own mental health, he was genuinely incapable of feeling any sympathy for someone who at that time had been on the "build" team since it was still part of the event team.. Basically over 2-3 years.

 

@TelanirI hope he reads this and genuinely starts to understand why he needs to pass on the torch, some mistakes are just truly unforgivable and doing them a multitude of times is far worse.

 

In conclusion, the staff in Aegis were "better" because it was just a bunch of friends trying to have fun. This is what this community was built on and what it was about, people meeting and trying to create a fun story. This can be actually said for everything up to Athera.  In fact, Anthos was rife with corruption but from EVERYONE I have spoken to they all say it was great. Then they took this shoddy business oriented approach after Mogroka and Tahmas were ousted.  Really, the community is garbage right now because the staff has refused to change and adapt, they've become more rigid and less flexible and this just gets worse each week. Not to mention all of the inherit biases they seem intent on having, if I were moderation and a player I intensely dislike has a report on them I'm going to abstain, but not this staff..

 

In fact, let me be more clear on this and share one of my personal reasons for disliking the staff and server so much:

 

Once upon a time, I was a staff member that opposed a lot of the changes they were doing because they were too rigid. I would often comment in staff general and actually did have some influence contrary to what they believe. I knew of OOC corruption and plots, called people out in VC over it but subtly.. And then got removed for "inactivity" for not filling out a google document. Months later, the admin that removed me gets removed in turn for.. YOU GUESSED IT! Corruption..

 

Months later, my character which I had invested countless hours into unveils a plot in Norland and tries to expose the high keeper for being in league with some nasty nasty people after she had already been proven to be unreliable and potentially corrupt. Because this player however had their own clique in Norland (which made up only like 10% or less of the activity) and because they were "leadership" material and were liked OOCly the people in charge of Norland then got on Discord and OOC'ly plotted over voice chat to have my character murdered so they could have "stability" and not risk having me PK this person. They then lied and deceived their entire community and tried to make me look like a spastic and many to this day still think I'm some spiteful villainous wildcard while they're used as pawns to keep activity up so these bastards don't lose their nation status. Why? Because they know very damn well that there's no other clique that would have them in ANY leadership positions let alone trust them.

 

So to be crystal clear..

 

In less then a year, I was removed from staff after 2-3 years of service and over dozens upon dozens of builds made. I even built an entire biome for Arcas. I wasn't given a thank you or anything, I had to essentially demand it after my removal and received it in mockery. I was mistreated and told to re-apply as if I had never been on the team, as if the 400+ hours of work had never been there. Then I lost a clique that I had been a part of for over four years and had to watch them all get banned one by one while the "new" people snaked on the last of us and perverted what we had built. This, this is why retention is bad. This is why old players keep leaving, this is why new people will continue to leave. You people have created a toxic environment in which absolutely nothing can happen, thrive or develop. What happened to me happens to EVERYONE eventually.

 

You will all get backstabbed, you will all be used and you will all be encouraged to do the same.. And then you will all be punished for it. This is what LoTC has become and most of the community is either blind or intentionally ignorant not to notice this.

[blindmind 350]

Hey folks, it's that guy you don't know! It's been a long, long time since I've touched this account, but I've had Minecraft on the mind lately, and that got me thinking about all of you. I saw this thread, and, well, I just had to write something up. For anyone that might actually remember me: whaddup! Sorry for another lengthy post from me! Here's a quote box for formatting purposes:
 

Quote

 

Brief background on who I am:

• started in the 3rdish month of the server with a trash app that probably wouldn't get accepted today
• was there when the first king of Oren died
• walked through the ruins of the first(?) dwarven city
• fought on the frontline of Alstion and Snowyfields against the Undead encroach toward Al'Khazar
• was one of the only humans in Aegis to (very briefly) visit the Nether and return with my skin
• was a trash GM later on (life stuff precluded me from actually contributing in any meaningful way)
• and a whole bunch more!

 

 

During that time, I had the privilege of running a character that rubbed shoulders with the original Mage's guild, Ascended, Undead (but mostly their proxies for the sake of my character's health), and just about every shady entity that happened to be around before the fall. I funded rebellions, turned friend against friend, and watched many people's characters die.

 

I had no special permissions, no special friends, no magic, no martial ability. All I had on my side was typing speed, a decent vocabulary, and time. My character was, on paper, as normal as they come. My goal with him was to see just how far I could get with words alone, without people actually knowing much at all about my character. To one person, he might've been a wealthy aristocrat, a dear confidant to another, a snake to one, and a spy to the rest.

 

It was a blast!

 

Since then, I've written what can only be described as a wasteful number of words on these forums attempting to move the dialogue in a direction that would break the status quo and recapture those glory days. In that regard, I'd say I've largely failed. So, why say anything now? I haven't logged on much in several years now, but I can tell just by glancing through this thread that pretty much all the same issues are negatively affecting the players. Those being:

• an enormous map spreading the playerbase too thin
• feature creep and amped up restrictions
• Discord of the Craft and player cliques
• inattentive, overloaded, and perhaps even corrupt staff
• a general lack of direction
• an unwillingness to "kill your babies"

I imagine your typical new player has zero clue what's going on as far as current events go, no way to interact with the game as they might normally expect, nobody to talk to, and not enough time on their hands to no-life it until a character arc reveals itself. For all intents and purposes, they are Other, and will no doubt feel unwanted and unnecessary. This person is up against established players who, historically speaking, don't log into the server, but instead control the political machine through Discord, google docs, and regurgitated memes shared between friends. If they're lucky, and if they stalk slightly more established characters long enough to stop talking in RP and start talking in OOC, they can start their way toward something that looks like progress.

 

Meanwhile, the forums are likely on fire for this or for that, and much of the staff's time is spent on the site resolving whatever they can, or doing the best they can do to blend into the background while logged in and getting whisper spammed by randos.

 

I don't know know who the big names are nowadays, but the behavior is probably similar if not the same, even if the seats have new butts in them.

 

A new player deals with all of this, only if they can manage to navigate the massive map with which they have no familiarity, and no context to guide them.

 

Is there a solution?

Maybe? Like I said, these issues are so old they're basically tradition, but I'd say there's light at the end of the tunnel, yet. I'm a fan of extreme solutions, so my suggestion would be more seasonal content. You're likely familiar with what I mean; temporary and enclosed periods at the end of which almost every single detail is refreshed and returned to zero.

 

You've almost experienced this in the form of new maps, but that solution never quite hits the mark does it? It fails to fully reset everything. All of the nations, families, legacies, friend groups, and even some characters survive from map to map, bringing the same problems to a new country. We need damn near complete historical erasure:

• Obliterate the families, the rich, the poor, the popular, and the obscure
• Reestablish lore going forward, and give yourself permission to bury old lore for something new
• Refuse the continuation of any stories from season to season (smaller characters will leak through, but major ones cannot)
• Refuse power to those players who have held it in the previous season
• Wipe out inventories and item storage
• Consider outright resetting the map to day 1 each season

And that's not all. The staff needs to offer a baseline for what, exactly, the world is and make sure everyone abides by that vision. You're the Dungeon Masters. You decide what the game is and what it is not. This means you'll need to:

• Reestablish and encourage social behaviors through video guides
• Reestablish narrative themes through video guides
• Reestablish histories and potential player backgrounds as necessary
• Seed important secrets throughout the world to give players a mystery they can own
• Push players toward a goal as a whole, give them something to be afraid of, and don't be afraid to be the villain
• Research how to DM
• Watch Season 1 of Westworld and write down everything Anthony Hopkins says
• Don't forget to market each seasonal refresh

Do the above and you're less likely to play the same game that's been played by everyone here for the last however many years. Just as well, you'll provide many more points of entry for new players, as they'll be closer to equal footing than ever before.

 

Thank you to anyone who reads all of this. I had a lot of fun writing it all out and thinking about old times.

 

Yours truly,

 

Someone who doesn't need to read up on current events to know what's going down

[MunaZaldrizoti 5709]

On 1/27/2021 at 1:34 PM, Urara said:

I think play retention is determined by a sense of player investment. 

 

I used to play on a server that was an absolute nightmare hellscape of toxic players, power mad staff, a greedy owner who forced Pay 2 Win mechanics and lootboxes onto RP -- just no limit to the sheer awfulness.

 

Why did I stay? Simple. I was deeply invested in my character and her relationship to other players and the world. 

 

Player investment is built through roleplay. I think we need to institute mechanics that encourage players to interact with each other. I get so bored in the cities sometimes because everyone is either AFK, sprint-jumping, or just not engaging in roleplay. People basically won't interact with you unless they're your friend already. There's also a huge stigma against newbies in some circles. People don't want to take the time to interact with new players and build relationships with them.

 

When you have no relationships and no engaging RP, why stay?

 

I stayed on some absolute dumpster-fire servers because the characters and the relationships between them were so deeply compelling.

 

I think a huge thing we need to do is find a way to encourage people to interact with others. Encourage people to RP with new players - and old players they might not know well too. 

 

This was one of my favorite comments on this thread, for the reason that it hits a major-player-created nail on the head. Clique-mentality and the overarching label of 'community' is often used to the detriment of new players. A new player cannot engage with a nation because they either have no connections whatsoever, or aren't trusted by the 'veterans' enough to become involved or even roleplay with.

 

As Treshure put in his original post, these are potential future nation leaders, storytellers, lore writers, builders, and coders. We're losing atleast 80% of them, most likely because they aren't provided the proper channels to find place on the server. While part of this falls upon the staff, especially the CT, it also falls upon the scores of nations leaders, nation council members, and just well-known players to engage these new players and not put them under the assumption that they must endure potentially-years of roleplay effort to even get a sliver of what a player of 4-5 years could get by just asking.

 

In my opinion, the issue that the older players & community leaders ourselves must solve is how to eliminate the ideas of  veterans, old-guard, and the exclusion of players from communities or their participation in things based upon the time they've spent on a server or with a group. If I meet a new player with ideas, who is willing to work, I'd take them over a lazy player who has been here since 2016, who simply wants a role in a playerbase for the sake of their pride. These sorts of new players need to be kept engaged and shown the ropes,  sure, but I think that is worth the effort to grow our server's community and bring new individuals to the table.

[monkeypoacher 6993]

we need to change our expectations for the staff before we change the staff.

 

lotc has had far worse admins in the past, openly abusive ones, we need to make sure we don't just accept admin decisions that harm most of the playerbase and obey rules that don't make sense.

 

not to shill for telanir too hard but as the guy who only gets called in when every other channel has failed he's not that bad. The problem really is that when he tries to stand in for an active admin his "vision" always ends up filtered through several layers of bureaucracy and never implemented. At most he should share his head admin status with an active planning/organizer admin who writes rules, plans community events/storylines, etc.

[Ixli 1471]

On 1/27/2021 at 5:10 AM, frill said:

Just what is there to actually do?

 

This. 

[Cloakedsphere 1462]

On 1/30/2021 at 11:18 AM, monkeypoacher said:

we need to change our expectations for the staff before we change the staff.

 

lotc has had far worse admins in the past, openly abusive ones, we need to make sure we don't just accept admin decisions that harm most of the playerbase and obey rules that don't make sense.

 

not to shill for telanir too hard but as the guy who only gets called in when every other channel has failed he's not that bad. The problem really is that when he tries to stand in for an active admin his "vision" always ends up filtered through several layers of bureaucracy and never implemented. At most he should share his head admin status with an active planning/organizer admin who writes rules, plans community events/storylines, etc.

Telanir is the end all-say all for all ideas being implemented. There isnt any layer of bureaucracy. If he has an idea, he can implement it without consulting anyone aside from Tythus. People should be going to TELANIR with idea's and see if it fits in HIS vision for LotC. This is the position of a HEAD admin. Just like people bring up with the idea of "road to 500" players or w/e that was. What ever happened to that idea? Like that was his vision. Where did it lead? What came of it? Where is the foundation for this vision? Its non-existant.

I am the first to preach that these guys are all volunteers for their positions. But stop volunteering if you actually have zero desire to make any change. We have a huge amount of lazy staff members starting all the way at the top and going all the way to the bottom. For a server than can only average 175 players on peak times, Why do we need 110+ members of staff? Especially when over half of the members are doing nothing.