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Defending Oppressors


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tfw this is the closest lotc will get to having firearms on its server 😔

@Riftblade

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I find it saddening that this entire issue had to be pushed into the public light, but I understand why Jokerlow decided to do so.

Some people are trying to meme on this or laugh it off as a joke, but the implications of a death threat after questioning someone's place of origin qualifies as both harassment and discrimination, and both should see the perpetrator of such actions at the _very_ least warned by server staff not to do such a thing again.

Intolerance of any kind isn't funny.

 

Some others would question Jokerlow's own actions and demand his positions be taken away. Were they unprofessional? Yes, and understandably so. It's unrealistic to demand that people keep a perfectly cool head when being insulted and threatened. Should he be punished? I do not believe so, especially since his actions were a response, however hasty, to messages of spite and vitriol directly connected a discussion about the wiki. It was the same conversation, and the timeframes show such messages of discrimination would never have occured if Jokerlow did not take the time to help Trench with his account.

 

While I do not know enough of the matter to state an opinion on the middle east and the conflicts therin, attacking Jokerlow over his personal views is a strawman argument that must be discarded. What truly concerns me is the very real possibility of staff tacitly defending intolerance and threats of violence within the LOTC community.

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last place i expected to see the israel-palestine debate flood into was fuckin mineman, and here we are boys n girls.

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2 minutes ago, Mannamannaa said:

I find it saddening that this entire issue had to be pushed into the public light, but I understand why Jokerlow decided to do so.

Some people are trying to meme on this or laugh it off as a joke, but the implications of a death threat after questioning someone's place of origin qualifies as both harassment and discrimination, and both should see the perpetrator of such actions at the _very_ least warned by server staff not to do such a thing again.

Intolerance of any kind isn't funny.

 

Some others would question Jokerlow's own actions and demand his positions be taken away. Were they unprofessional? Yes, and understandably so. It's unrealistic to demand that people keep a perfectly cool head when being insulted and threatened. Should he be punished? I do not believe so, especially since his actions were a response, however hasty, to messages of spite and vitriol directly connected a discussion about the wiki. It was the same conversation, and the timeframes show such messages of discrimination would never have occured if Jokerlow did not take the time to help Trench with his account.

 

While I do not know enough of the matter to state an opinion on the middle east and the conflicts therin, attacking Jokerlow over his personal views is a strawman argument that must be discarded. What truly concerns me is the very real possibility of staff tacitly defending intolerance and threats of violence within the LOTC community.

 

which is why i think kowa did everything right. correct me if i'm wrong, but joker still has his position and trenchist was warned.

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31 minutes ago, Beatus said:

ok orth*dox

 

  Reveal hidden contents

jk ily

 

Looking forward to celebrating the resurrection with you on the right day (May 2) Joao. @JoanOfArc will be there so make sure to bring biryani to the potluck, its his favorite.

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4 minutes ago, Mordhaund said:

 

anyone who defends this guy isn't defending what he said to you they're defending him because you didn't separate the two things i just mentioned

 

 

Nah. We all have a duty to stand against oppression; even if it is on something as seemingly innocuous as a Minecraft Roleplay Forum. Despite the medium, this is still a community with wide-ranging impacts for anyone involved, especially on the OOC front. People in power (e.g. moderation and staff) have a stronger duty to stand against inherently oppressive forces.

 

No one wants to talk about politics on a Minecraft Roleplay Forum -- straight up  -- but we all invariably live on the planet (guess where the server's hosted? hint: its big and round and full of 7 billion people lol) , and being ignorant of important global issues (that probably have affected almost everyone's country's politics in some way!) on this, or any medium, only serves to perpetuate these ills. You'll say "politics don't belong on the server", sure, but why instigate it in the first place? If you're talking with someone from the server and you bring up politics, you know exactly what you're doing and what your intention is. Especially in the case of a typical housekeeping conversation. Once it gets out of that vacuum you can't ignore the relevance and impact.

 

Compliance is violence, m8s.

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8 hours ago, Llir said:

You banned someone from the wiki for something unrelated the wiki said personally to you in DMs, rather than reporting what you saw as harassment to the appropriate channels. Due to this, I received and investigated a staff report on the matter. My concern was the apparent unprofessionalism and alleged abuse of your staff position in response to personal issues, which is completely out of policy. Your feelings are justified, though we have standards we must uphold as staff.

 

I took your concerns seriously and discussed the gun image with Trenchist. We had a productive conversation, and after reading the full DMs between you two, and hearing both sides, I believe it boiled down to a miscommunication. I discussed the matter further with your team management and Moderation leadership, deciding to file a warning on the matter, and unban the Wiki account. No action was taken against you.

 

I have no personal opinion on the middle eastern issues, I'm just doing my due diligence as an administrator to assure protocol is followed.

 

Do as much human resources LARP as you want but the "appropriate channels" let sexpests back into the community. how about that

 

Is it "protocol" to ignore evidence of sexual harassment until it builds up to the point where you can't ignore it, & then quietly unban offenders if they say sorry to you in private?

 

btw no1 with a brain that hasn't been turned into loose oatmeal by Twitter thinks this is an Israel-Palestine issue. There is no political dispute involved in this exceedingly simple and blatant case of harassment and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to introduce one. If I sent anyone on the staff a picture of a gun I would be indefinitely (permanently) banned; I don't see how LoTC's recognition of Israeli statehood should factor in to enforcing this standard.

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I think a lot of us has incidents such as this happen, whether it was because or race, religion, ect. Now that being said, while your actions might have not been the most mature to something such as this, it is important to understand that actions like this are impactful to onesself and therefore shouldn't be tolerated or accepted as the norm for us as a community to continue to "strive"- whatever that means here anyway. 

 

 

 

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Honestly, I didn't read any of the stuff about the conflict, I only read the sections about this conversation specifically. I think that's all that was needed. The additional stuff about the conflict itself is unneeded, all you need to see is the timeframe of the messages, and how unprovoked Trenchist was. There was no need to ask Joker where he was from, where he lived now, no need to send the picture of a rifle, no need to mention the conflict or any of those things. He went for a wiki account, and went after Joker for his nationality without any cause. That's where I think it's justified to ban the account, Joker was no longer comfortable to provide a service to trenchist. 

 

If you go into a conversation with someone expecting to help them, then suddenly have your real life location, nationality, and ideals on an irl conflict brought up, there's a high chance you'd be caught off guard and maybe lose some professionalism too. Joker, I think you went overboard on this post, but I appreciate the wish to feel comfortable while you're trying to simply help someone. I think in this instance, it's incorrect to claim the ban was unrelated to the conversation, there wasn't some separate conversation, Trenchist did this in one conversation.

 

Please protect your staff members and not people that are disconnected enough from basic human decency to send your staff members pictures of guns and messages about a conflict with their home country while they're only trying to do their volunteer job.

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2 hours ago, H3nree said:

Happy Ramadan!! Stay safe!

❤️

 

also, people who are that insensitive and rude should face repercussions imo.

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49 minutes ago, Shorsand said:

 

Nah. We all have a duty to stand against oppression; even if it is on something as seemingly innocuous as a Minecraft Roleplay Forum. Despite the medium, this is still a community with wide-ranging impacts for anyone involved, especially on the OOC front. People in power (e.g. moderation and staff) have a stronger duty to stand against inherently oppressive forces.

 

No one wants to talk about politics on a Minecraft Roleplay Forum -- straight up  -- but we all invariably live on the planet (guess where the server's hosted? hint: its big and round and full of 7 billion people lol) , and being ignorant of important global issues (that probably have affected almost everyone's country's politics in some way!) on this, or any medium, only serves to perpetuate these ills. You'll say "politics don't belong on the server", sure, but why instigate it in the first place? If you're talking with someone from the server and you bring up politics, you know exactly what you're doing and what your intention is. Especially in the case of a typical housekeeping conversation. Once it gets out of that vacuum you can't ignore the relevance and impact.

 

Compliance is violence, m8s.

Compliance is violence? It really just isn't though.

 

Forcing people from around the world who have no connection to the middle-east to pick sides in an age-old conflict isn't righteous, it just creates further division. Very little of us (me included) have an in-depth understanding of the conflict and we will inevitably pick sides depending on what inherently biased explanation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict reaches us first. Coming from someone who's lives in a country with a history of bigoted, sectarian violence I can tell you how irritating it is when foreigners who are not involved stick their noses into a centuries old conflict that they evidently don't understand (memeing is fine of course). 

 

Unless any of us mineman rp'ers work for the United Nations, I doubt anything constructive will come from mudslinging 'debates' on the forums. For God's sake half of us on here aren't mature enough to resolve minecraft RP conflicts, nevermind IRL ones.

 

Don't make people feel bad for choosing not to take sides.

 

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5 hours ago, Marron said:

Compliance is violence? It really just isn't though.

 

Forcing people from around the world who have no connection to the middle-east to pick sides in an age-old conflict isn't righteous, it just creates further division. Very little of us (me included) have an in-depth understanding of the conflict and we will inevitably pick sides depending on what inherently biased explanation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict reaches us first. Coming from someone who's lives in a country with a history of bigoted, sectarian violence I can tell you how irritating it is when foreigners who are not involved stick their noses into a centuries old conflict that they evidently don't understand (memeing is fine of course). 

 

Unless any of us mineman rp'ers work for the United Nations, I doubt anything constructive will come from mudslinging 'debates' on the forums. For God's sake half of us on here aren't mature enough to resolve minecraft RP conflicts, nevermind IRL ones.

 

Don't make people feel bad for choosing not to take sides.

 

You know I really don't want anyone to pick a side, right? I have given so much information to explain my reason for such a response to Trenchist's actions. I again, will repeat myself that I don't seek either attention or special treatment and neither the political support of people that don't want to do have anything to with this. This is just more than "pick a side or you bad", I get that people are not political, that's why I don't wish anyone to believe that I am seeking to gain supporter for my people's cause. I had to give some background information for the people that did not know the political information so they may understand the situation entirely.

Also thanks for whoever censored the military grade rifle from the screenshots, you're awesome.

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1 hour ago, Shorsand said:

 

Nah. We all have a duty to stand against oppression; even if it is on something as seemingly innocuous as a Minecraft Roleplay Forum. Despite the medium, this is still a community with wide-ranging impacts for anyone involved, especially on the OOC front. People in power (e.g. moderation and staff) have a stronger duty to stand against inherently oppressive forces.

 

No one wants to talk about politics on a Minecraft Roleplay Forum -- straight up  -- but we all invariably live on the planet (guess where the server's hosted? hint: its big and round and full of 7 billion people lol) , and being ignorant of important global issues (that probably have affected almost everyone's country's politics in some way!) on this, or any medium, only serves to perpetuate these ills. You'll say "politics don't belong on the server", sure, but why instigate it in the first place? If you're talking with someone from the server and you bring up politics, you know exactly what you're doing and what your intention is. Especially in the case of a typical housekeeping conversation. Once it gets out of that vacuum you can't ignore the relevance and impact.

 

Compliance is violence, m8s.

im israeli, i don't really understand why you're pushing for people to take sides on politics in a virtual platform? we're all here to have a good time roleplaying :P

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1 hour ago, JokerLow said:

You know I really don't want anyone to pick a side, right? I have given so much information to explain my reason for such a response to Trenchist's actions. I again, will repeat myself that I don't seek either attention or special treatment and neither the political support of people that don't want to have anything to deal with this. This is just more than "pick a side or you bad", I get that people are not political, that's why I don't wish anyone to believe that I am seeking to gain supporter for my people's cause. I had to give some background information for the people that did not know the political information so they may understand the situation entirely.

Also thanks for whoever censored the military grade rifle from the screenshots, you're awesome.

My reply was in response to Shorsand turning it into a 'you're with us or against us' political issue, nothing directed to you specifically.

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for centuries jews and muslims lived together in peace, learning from each others knowledge in great cities like baghdad, cordoba and cairo

 

you both worship the god of abraham and are therefore brothers we must find a way to coexist in this world in peace

 

 

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