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Defending Oppressors


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I haven't posted anything related to the subject in a forum post in awhile, so I'll try to articulate my thoughts precisely. 

 

I'll start off by saying that being Israeli and someone who's served their time in the IDF in a combat position not different from Trenchist's, I find that the most important thing is to keep the political differences aside. 

 

It was in no way right to trigger or even bait in such a way, someone who's obviously been affected by the political climate. By emphasizing our differences and addressing them in a "joking" matter, simply makes it a toxic environment  not even a productive one where an Israeli and a Palestinian can roleplay freely without any fear of the political consequence, because this is after all a minecraft server. I would have easily done the same thing as joking if someone sent me a nazi photo, no doubt. 

 

I'll conclude by simply saying that this is a place for people to enjoy themselves and not a place to express hatred and toxic behavior. I hold 0 grudges against any Palestinian who simply wishes to roleplay and respects me for who I am regardless of my race/nationality, and I trust it's the same for them. 

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You both are in the wrong. Yes, Trenchist provoked you, and his behavior was absolutely uncalled for, though you are far from innocent either. It was unprofessional and frankly, antisemetic to ban him for "No IDF". I understand that you were frustrated, but that doesn't excuse your actions. It's also disappointing that Snoopie even allowed it, particularly as someone who was calmer in that moment. Also, you definitely could have gotten your point across without spreading Palestine propoganda. As Eli said, this issue is not black and white, and I find it inappropriate to portray it as such.

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I fear, Jokerlow, that your long explanation about the political environment in Israel right now has turned what should be a very simple topic to address into something far more, and that people are seeing this in some political light rather than what it really boils down to, which is:

 

Someone harassed you, sent threatening images, and engaged in toxic behavior.

 

In the end, the politics doesn't or shouldn't matter. That will make people take sides in something that is tangential to the true issue here. I completely understand where Llir is coming from when he spoke to you. After all, this is what we tell everyone when someone harasses them in the medium that is LoTC. That is, "don't engage, block them so they can't do it anymore, and let moderation take care of it."

 

I feel that it is incredibly wrong of the admin team to have come to the decision that this kind of harassment just requires a warning. After all, Staff had to censor the harasser's messages to Joker in this thread. I think that says all that needs to be said. Toxic behavior and harassment has no place on this server. I'm sorry, Joker. You should be able to know that this server is a place where people who would do such a thing are not allowed to participate.

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33 minutes ago, AnonymousAlexa said:

You both are in the wrong. Yes, Trenchist provoked you, and his behavior was absolutely uncalled for, though you are far from innocent either. It was unprofessional and frankly, antisemetic to ban him for "No IDF". I understand that you were frustrated, but that doesn't excuse your actions. It's also disappointing that Snoopie even allowed it, particularly as someone who was calmer in that moment. Also, you definitely could have gotten your point across without spreading Palestine propoganda. As Eli said, this issue is not black and white, and I find it inappropriate to portray it as such.

Explain in details how a military group, has anything to do with anti-semitism. I'd like to point out the fact that there are some Palestinians also serving in the IDF alongside Ethiopian Jews and many other people that see it as the right thing to do. Please expand on that matter, simply calling me anti-semitic because i do not appreciate being threatened by a military that oppresses my people does not make a point, but simply points out the lack of knowledge you have in regards to this topic, yet still seek the attention of it resulting by you replying to it. Please expand on how I am anti-semitic and also what anti-semitism means to you, I'm waiting.

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It is my personal opinion that if it was within a DM conversation, then it was not an LotC matter, and therefore no punishment should have been dished out and no child like post should have been posted. People these days don't know how to deal with their problems head on and face to face it seems, instead it is easier to slap that block/ban button and rant to every friend they know to ruin a guys reputation. 

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1 hour ago, FunOnTheBun said:

It is my personal opinion that if it was within a DM conversation, then it was not an LotC matter, and therefore no punishment should have been dished out and no child like post should have been posted. People these days don't know how to deal with their problems head on and face to face it seems, instead it is easier to slap that block/ban button and rant to every friend they know to ruin a guys reputation. 

 

No. Flat out no. I'm sorry, but one of the things that I've learned about gaming within a community over the last quarter century of doing it is that a violation of community values is easily the single best reason for dropping someone from that community, no matter the medium that violation came in. It is okay for the organizers of that community to say, "I'm sorry, but your behavior is not something we want to be around. Goodbye."

 

The moment a toxic member of the community or missing stair is told that there are places they can be toxic without consequences is the moment you will see people disappear from that medium. Want all staff members to have their Discord DMs turned off? Make it so that they can't do anything when someone abuses them over Discord DMs. 

 

Lastly, I'd like to point out that your statement in this thread doesn't even make sense in the context it was given in. After all, in this thread, you'll find that Joker did deal with this problem head on, told the person off, refused to help him, and was promptly told off for doing so.

 

 

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1 hour ago, FunOnTheBun said:

[...] do you think that a staff member should be able to ban me for having a social political argument member when that argument had nothing to do with the server at all?

 

You should be able to be banned for sending to anyone what is at most charitably; an extremely toxic and insensitive 'meme', or at worst, a thinly veiled death threat

I'm sure plenty people here have a variety of views and opinions. Realistically, the political background to this situation serves only as context to those who might not be entirely clear on why this was not just 'haha funny gun pic'. The 'politics' here have nothing to do with the major issue which was what I stated in my first sentence.

 

This issue wasn't "oh he's IDF and I don't like it", the issue was "oh he's pretty much sending a death threat". The political context is secondary.

 

 

We need to stop pretending that people aren't people just because we're online. Someone who's toxic towards players, be it on or off the server, has no place in this community. I'm sure there's players here who have engaged in toxic behaviour and have just not been caught, but when it's caught, that should be sufficient.

 

The solution for the offenders is actually really simple. Don't be a toxic person.

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There's no way sending a member of the community an image of a firearm after responding about their origins could be chalked up as a misunderstanding. Very disappointing to see this swept under the rug with a gentle warning instead of actually being taken seriously and with compassion towards people dealing with real life issues. Unprofessionalism in a volunteer minecraft team towards someone trying to provoke them is a nonissue and bringing it up as a defense is just a way of trying to derail the topic.

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Anyone getting upset with them for their reaction has no right to comment as who are you police someone who is in a state of distress?


Their team lead gave them the go ahead, by the way to make the action they did pertaining to the Wiki.

 

Secondly, @JokerLowI’m sorry that you’re going through all of this and that there are members of the community that took this as an opportunity to poke fun, directly or not, at you. 

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Imagine calling someone showing a firearm without any reason along with a very obvious threat following even if its just a meme a "Misunderstanding" then following up with disregarding the entire situation as "politics" and saying @JokerLow was in the wrong so its okay.

 

What he did was stupid - but what was sent to him is gross abuse. This server gets even more pathetic every day that goes by with the insane amount of people who disregard other human beings. Some of you on this thread need to recheck your morals.

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God this is the problem with the LotC community. Even if this was a threat, even if this was some big bad racist move, even if this man had an image of the parents house with his gun and a sticky note saying "I am going to kill them all" this isn't a god damn LotC matter. This is something that should be solved privately, with the authorities, or a lawyer. If this man was truly, and I mean truly in threat of danger, then this would not be solved on a god damn mineman server. I don't care about the politics, I don't care about the nature of the conversation, this is not about Lord of the Craft. JokerLow did not have the right to use his powers to punish someone for a PRIVATE conversation. If this conversation took place on LotC, sure, I understand. If this was an official staff sit, then yes, I would understand some form of punishment. But this was not one of those situations, this is someone who got scared and hated someone for their political standings and their affiliation with another government and used whatever little power over something they both shared to punish them. 

P.S. Question my Morals again no balls. 

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1 hour ago, FunOnTheBun said:

God this is the problem with the LotC community. Even if this was a threat, even if this was some big bad racist move, even if this man had an image of the parents house with his gun and a sticky note saying "I am going to kill them all" this isn't a god damn LotC matter. 

P.S. Question my Morals again no balls. 

This is by far the worst take on this matter. 

Here is rule number 2 of our General Rules for LoTC:
Do not troll, cyberbully, harass, slander, or threaten players in any way on any medium, including Discord, Skype, Teamspeak, etc. If you feel unsafe or unwelcome due to the actions of another player, please email safety@lotc.co

OP should have sent an email to the above. You are choosing to invalidate a player's concern because they banned a player from posting on a minecraft fantasy rp wiki. 

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2 hours ago, FunOnTheBun said:

-snip-

 

I completely disagree with what you're saying. It's the job of Moderation to moderate harassment if it pertains to players that are members of the LotC community and the reason they're speaking to each other is a result of them both being part of the community. On top of this, sometimes players are banned if a legal court has given a restraining order or some other settlement like that. This is often the case in crimes of a sexual nature. Whilst it doesn't need to be settled in a legal court, if an illegal, toxic, or immoral action happens on the platform, it's the full right for those with the authority to moderate the platform to punish users accordingly. JokerLow, although not Moderation, was still approached by Trenchist regarding a staff-related duty whichbeing the wiki. After dealing with Trenchist's wiki request with no hesitation, it was Trenchist who turned the conversation into one of politics and ethnicity, even acknowledging its irrelevance. Therefore, it's perfectly reasonable to say that this took place on LotC given that it was initially in regards to the LotC wiki with the Wiki Caretaker. I also think that it was perfectly reasonable for JokerLow to deny further access to Trenchist's account given his blatant insensitivity and honestly prejudice towards JokerLow's background as a Palestinian because we don't appreciate intolerance on our platforms to begin with. The server is by no means political, and is intended to remain apolitical, however it is clear that Trenchist acted in what can only be said as both political and racial prejudice. I support this perspective of mine, not only with the actions displayed by Trenchist here, but with the knowledge that I've been informed of recently that he is a proud Israeli who has also spoken in a discriminatory manner about Palestinians in the past in private discord as well as purposefully being toxic and edgy. We can see this just by looking at his prior Minecraft username history in which he has called himself "_fascist". Therefore, I don't think it's fair to say that anything about what Trenchist did is a miscommunication and it's just pure prejudice. While I do think that JokerLow was permitted in doing everything he did and had the right reason to do so, I do think that the rushed "No IDF" reason was questionable but understandable if it was intended to be changed at some point.

 

On a side note,

2 hours ago, FunOnTheBun said:

this is someone who got scared and hated someone for their political standings and their affiliation with another government and used whatever little power over something they both shared to punish them.

I'm convinced that what you're saying here is honestly based on personal political bias rather than any intention to promote the community's rules because in a past comment that seems to be hidden now you describe yourself as a conservative Jew, and then go on to use emotional language here, calling JokerLow scared as reaction to what can only reasonably be interpreted as being taunting, intimidation, or a death threat by an IDF member; all of which would not be allowed within the rules.

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2 hours ago, FunOnTheBun said:

God this is the problem with the LotC community. Even if this was a threat, even if this was some big bad racist move, even if this man had an image of the parents house with his gun and a sticky note saying "I am going to kill them all" this isn't a god damn LotC matter. This is something that should be solved privately, with the authorities, or a lawyer. If this man was truly, and I mean truly in threat of danger, then this would not be solved on a god damn mineman server. I don't care about the politics, I don't care about the nature of the conversation, this is not about Lord of the Craft. JokerLow did not have the right to use his powers to punish someone for a PRIVATE conversation. If this conversation took place on LotC, sure, I understand. If this was an official staff sit, then yes, I would understand some form of punishment. But this was not one of those situations, this is someone who got scared and hated someone for their political standings and their affiliation with another government and used whatever little power over something they both shared to punish them. 

P.S. Question my Morals again no balls. 

Alright, so let me tackle this response. Firstly, this would've never happen if I were to ignore a ping asking me to help Trenchist with his wiki account, thing that I never ignore since its part of my many duties as Wiki Caretaker, a volunteer job that I love doing. So this conversation would've never happened if me or him wouldn't be part of this community. Second of all, if Trenchist would've kept this professional, not saying that I did since I confessed to being very unprofessional when blocking his account, he wouldn't have asked me that many of off topic details, as neither of us know each other and me doing my job as Wiki Caretaker was the only reason me and him ever spoke, so to say that this is not a lotc matter is pretty wrong. This issue was solved privately for some time, until I was contacted by Llir only to be told that I was wrong and basically being walked on by the others after my decisions was overran. To say that this should've bought to authorities is pretty ignorant, I'm not sure how much of my post did you read, but lets say that theoretically I'd be to do that, where would I file a complaint? In my current country of residence? Palestine? Israel? Well I can't do it in neither of those and let me explain you why. Romania has little to anything to do with Israel, if anything my case would be turned away since I'd have to file it in Israel. Palestine? Well impossible, Trenchist is not a citizen of Palestine. Israel? Well if I were to do that, what would be a civil complaint would most likely find its way into the military court as most of palestinian cases end up there in Israel, not saying all of them, but a really large amount of them end in their military court. I'm not questioning your morals, but your logic, which is completely wrong. As many people pointed out, if this were to happen to an administrator the person in cause would've been permanently banned on the spot. But let us give an example, aight? Say theoretically positions were switched and after Trenchist would've helped me recover my Wiki account I would ask him "Irrelevant question btw, are u jewish?" to which he'd respond to me by "yeah, israeli" followed by him asking me in return "are you palestinian?". If my response would've been the same as Trenchist's, which was by sending me "Greetings from across the border habibi" with an image of a military grade rifle attached to it, I would've been 99.9% instantly banned for targeting a member of the community, harassment and branded as being anti-semitic, thought that encouraged me more to do this post as a way to expose the double standards we live by and not even realize doing so.

 

 

Moving on, I'd like to thank everyone supporting me either publicly on this post or in my DMs. It really means a lot to me, and I'd like to also like to point out that I read every single reply you guys send here, be them supporting me or criticizing me. As I said in the post, it is my main goal to bring attention to this matter as it is a situation that could be easily misunderstood by some people, reason for me going on and explaining briefly the political situation between the two groups that played a major factor in this situation.

 

 

And at last, I'm still waiting for your reply @AnonymousAlexa. If you were so quick to call me anti-semitic, please also share some of your time to explain why and how you came to this decision, unless you wish to prove my point that you just wanted the attention of this situation.

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11 hours ago, AnonymousAlexa said:

It was unprofessional and frankly, antisemetic to ban him for "No IDF".

 

I've already stated in my comment that the action was unprofessional, but the comment of this being Anti-Semitic makes little to no sense. Joker, as well as Trench, as well as myself, are all Semitic, as an example. Trenchist is Israeli, Joker is of Palestinian descent, and I am of Kurdish descent [these are all examples]. Joker explained in his own post he's anti Zionist, and that has absolutely nothing to do with being anti-Semitic, nor does that have anything to do with what he even did, it's just part of the backstory to provide further context for his actions. Your comment about his actions being anti-Semitic are simply propagating this whole "race war" agenda that's being indirectly spread through a lot of the members of the community, with x calling y a supporter of this or that side, and it's wrong. I'll explain, broadly, what a Semite is.

 

 

Being a Semite simply means being Levantine [that is, being from the broad region of the Levant ancestrally], with the ancestral area of ethnic origin being an area in which a Semitic language was ancestrally spoken. Semites include: Jewish people, Palestinians, anyone from the Middle East, even Greeks and Turkish people, and Libya, for the most part. We all, ethnically, for the most part, originate from the same area of origin, and that is where the definition of a "Semite" arises from. I understand that your perception of what a Semite is is skewed due to the general knowledge that everyone has for the Holocaust, where it was indeed Jewish people that were predominantly targeted and massacred, and the Western belief of Anti-Semitism applies predominantly to the Jewish subculture, however this grouping applies to all of those who are ancestrally Levantine, originating ethnically from languages that speak and spoke Arabic, Amharic, Hebrew, Aramaic, Tigre, Tigrinya and Maltese. Please correct your beliefs before choosing to call someone else an Anti-Semite without knowing what Semitism actually is. 

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