[✗] Darasvira: Disciples of the Aspects' Hand

[bickando 3385]

9 hours ago, ScreamingDingo said:

deific aligned dragaar will be the bane of my existence

If you accept this I demand you un-remove my snow elf lore. This is grass type azdrazi based on a character in 2016 leowarrior lore sir. My ice type high elves based on a character in 2016 leowarrior lore being removed should be the standard by which this is appraised.

 

kidding btw, druids...i dont want snelves back . . . 

[excited 10833]

10 hours ago, Keefy said:

I won't say much about this, but I was just consulted for what how and why Taynei would do any of this and so I did so to the best of my abilities.

Notable, this is a two fold reaction from a immature entity who is far less powerful than Azdro, and has a leash on it by Aspect.

One is she doesn't like the way the druids act to one another or do their job. During the entire eventline earlier this year, she saw bickering, in fighting, threats. This isn't what she was taught they should be.

Two, jealousy. Azdro has Azdrazi/Nephilim, he may not care much but Taynei was unfortunately wrought up by elves and druids and in the Forest saw many family communities. It's raw jealousy.

The fact they seem dragonic is a non-issue, or at least, unintentional. In this, as and if it passed, the seeds were left to grant a separate option to the Duties than straight Druidism. It is a want for family, and it is also a combination of spite and reinforcement to the druids, and just spite to Azdro.

I can't say if this'll pass, and it doesn't effect me much if it does or doesn't. I just help when I'm asked, usually by getting high and spouting ideas.

But the core concept as I see it as the person who plays Taynei is, if she did this, she would do it cause she is a shithead. She wants a family, cannot have one. Druids were supposed to be one, the Order she saw was schismed, in fighting, harrassing one another, or doing nothing. So if this passes, this is just an alternative solution to getting the job done, and if it doesnt pass, then, at least it's a lovely example of how lore should be detailed and work as not just the lore piece, but the guide.

Cheers.

taynei literally genocided the original azdrazi for being abominations, I really don’t see why she would go around creating her own unnatural ichor creatures. It seems absolutely antithetical to the past four years of lore and more so a reach by druids to occupy a niche that already exists, and had existed since 2016. 
 

it would be so much cooler if these were actually some form of satyr or Druid esque creature created by taynei, but the idea of them being dragonkin is just absolutely unfeasible. The only dragon that is able to consistently create life and abominations through it is Azdromoth or Dragur (who is dead). This is because the person transitioning into being a Nephilim literally dies and their soul is recycled to give birth to an eldritch monstrosity. 
 

that is why you have azdrazi players who are infuriated, that is why I look at this lore and I don’t see the positives. Druids are a big player base, if they wrote a unique CA it would be one thing, but this doesn’t strike me as unique. This strikes me as an off-brand second form of an original concept, an off-brand alteration that doesn’t even pay heed to much of the established draconic canon. 

[Jentos 6808]

I do not believe these creatures should have access to druidism. Azdromoth could not create his children with that ability - how could one of his lesser daughters be able to create something much more perfect, with more abilities than the Azdrazi themselves ? A lot of the more "aesthetic" abilities also irk me, such as the pigmy dragons which will likely serve no other purpose than to be cool Pokemon pets one can flex or emote serving tea with them. I also believe this will create a real culture of druidic dragons, as it seems that there is no penalty whatsoever for a druid to turn into one of these weedrazi, like, why shouldn't one become a dragon ? This encourages minmaxing.

 

They are in effect much more powerful than Azdrazi, as they can begin learning a number of magics, while also possessing thicker hides, claws, etc, while also being much more respected amongst dragons than the Azdrazi themselves. Seeing this strikes me as odd considering the many complaints about nephilim strength. 

 

Over-all, I feel like this would need a heavy nerf, and yet even then I'm somewhat fearful, knowing that people might just be parading their forms carelessly for mindless tavern RP and having dragon sex in fae rings (I have known the lust of the druidic people). I'm also just thinking that this might be little else than a jab at the Azdrazi themselves, in an effort to create one's own draconic "superior" race away from the current playerbase.

[𝙻𝚞𝚟 XO 3062]

Love the idea of Druidism becoming compatible with different forms of magic and other creatures. Love this idea and hope to see more like it soon. 

[Ryloth 4312]

I'm still not understanding why these are half-dragon people instead of something more aligned to the aspects and aligned to the power level of Tayneihiylu -- like Satyrs, or even Mermaids, something half-animal but not fully, and not draconic.

 

The reason why the Azdrazi exist is similar to how Metztli created the Kharajyr. Azdromoth tampered for a long, long, long time splitting his blood, creating failures in wild experiments as he tried to create a vessel that could harbor the soul of a dragon, the inner flame that which the Azdrazi now have. Why would Tayneihiylu do this? When did she do this? How did she get away with this, as a Dragaar subject to the Aspects, let alone as one of the absolute weakest Dragaar?

Azdromoth is the Arch-Drakaar. Not only was he the very first Dragaar created by Dragur at the absolute beginning of time therefore allotting aeons and aeons of time to work his experiments, he is the most powerful by far. He was already the strongest, the pinnacle of the Dragaar until Iblees captured and corrupted him -- arguably making him even more powerful in ways unimaginable. Sure, this may explain why Tayneihiylu instead did not make full lesser dragons akin to the Azdrazi and instead demi-draconics, but why?

 

It simply does not make sense. Keefy says ... jealousy, inability to control her people, whatever is for why -- well, what is stopping another more powerful Dragaar or Drakaar IE Zar'rokal from making infernal Naztherak Nephilim? We did already cover this, fortunately, during the Inferi crisis. The ultimate and rather immediate dismissal of these types of Nephilim existing was extremely adamant, and the very brief cycle of infernal Nephilim was discarded post-haste.

 

Why can these demi-dragons reproduce? Tayneihiylu has effectively achieved something even Azdromoth could not. Azdromoth created the Nephilim because he could not reproduce, because he could not do as his forefather Dragur did and create dragons with such finesse. This lore piece effectively gives Taynei an absolutely atrociously massive power creep beyond what she should have -- simply because these creatures are demi-draconic. It may not seem like a big deal, but it is; and for that reason I still think these should be something that isn't already on the server.

Make them into Satyrs, or Mermaids, or I don't know -- Centaurs or something. Surely at least Satyrs would work, and it would be cool. The lore is written very nicely albeit with plenty of edits that definitely need to be made if it isn't denied, but I absolutely do not think it should be accepted until it is no longer a draconic-themed lore piece. That's all.

[Unwillingly 11096]

its a nice aesthetic but im p much in full agreeance to the things other ppl have pointed out. I feel like this would have gotten way better feedback and reception if we saw a creature like satyrs, cervitaurs, or some other fae beings like those

[JEEGK 1253]

dragon v dragon type beat

[King_Kunuk 888]

My limited opinion on this is very limited; however I do have a few critics and likes

First, I like the CA as a concept and a whole. it is quite unique considering what is already had on LotC, and is a unique spin on the dragonkin

The few critics I have are fairly limited. The first is more so that the CA feels quite complex in what it details. There are a lot of moving parts from corruption to broods and lairs. Another one (though this comes more so from me liking my voidal lore), is the lack of conflict/weakness/strength against voidal magic. I had originally thought a druii dragon would be more of an anti-void magic, or have void magic be akin to how the Azdrazi can not tolerate the cold, but to a lesser extent.

Opinion; limited. I like it nontheless

[Milenkhov 4487]

A lot of players have already commented on the lore-piece, specifically from the Azdrazi community. I would first like to start off by complimenting your formatting and layout; though a lot of edits may be required, it is presented with aesthetic finesse.

 

Now, onto the actual lore-post. I do not find it insulting -- yet rather saddening -- that another dragonic / draconic lore-piece was submitted without even one bit of contact with our community, the main show-runners for the dragonkin who have supported it’s rich lore and roleplay for over five years and counting. You have spoken to Spoon; he is a newer member of the Azdrazi community (although being a story-team member) and it could have been consulted to others. An example of this would be your very friend Malaise (who wrote the foundations to dragons and their lore), or Jentos (who is also skilled at writing and knowledgeable about the Azdrazi and dragonkin). Kalehart, you have been allowed to stay in our discord for many months and have been allowed to communicate with us. I know your opinion of our players as being goonish (and the other back chatting and trash talking you have done in the druid chat, specifically about Lhindir). I understand you agreed to your fault in this, so I’ll brush it off as a minor lack of communication.

 

The druids are one the most - if not the most - strongest in terms of abilities and their general magic overall. This is likely due to the amount of story team members who play druids and allow minor aesthetic changes and or power-buffs to your community (not calling bias, it’s always prevalent). In the span of two years, you have had multiple additions to druidism, on top of having more than one CA for this specific magic as a whole. Druidism has spilled into many different genres outside of their nature aesthetic, as does this. Taynei’hiyli is a traitor dragaar who decided to follow the Aspects. She is also one of the weakest dragaars, if not the weakest. I would not care if Taynei’hiylu was able to make a pre-existing race set out by the Aspects, i.e Tree-Lords (something Werew0lf and Spoon kindly allowed to happen before in one of the events they raided, wherein a druid was killed and they summoned Taynei’hiylu who - kindly with the two Azdrazis agreement - turn the killed player into a treelord). However, the dragonkin are far superior in creation (not in terms of prowess, but in terms of refining their existence and actually creating them). I have seen roleplays with Taynei’hiylu, not only is she too immature to make any new race, she seems far too stupid (not quite literally, all dragaars are knowledgable, but if we’re talking about common sense then lol). I have seen Keefy reiterate this before in channels, correct me if I am wrong.

 

If this does get accepted, great. I do not mind having conflict with the druids as the paladins have grown stale and do - quite literally - nothing. Of course, you should expect some Azdrazi players to get defensive about protecting their race. We attempt to keep unique; the amount of vampire lores coming out and now another dragonkin lore. You also follow the same mental principles of hoarding and other aspects of the Azdrazi which make no sense for some uncommon half-draconic being who is still mortal and living.

 

The Azdrazi were recently nerfed for having strength, aesthetic scales and horns, and one set of abilities for dragonfire with certain immunities to fire (which makes sense). The Darasivra have strength (albeit not as strong as an Azdrazi), protective scales (even with the red-lines), horn usage, some non-combatant spells + their ability to learn the behemoth of other druidic spells which are powerful. You can even have children (lol?)

 

Good luck to your lore.
 

[excited 10833]

Criticisms of Darasvira:

“The method used by Taynei’hiylu to forge her own draconic kin is a clever one indeed, devised to circumvent the limitations on her power which, otherwise, would prevent her from causing the same sort of wholesale metamorphosis that her elder sibling enables.”

 

- Taynei’Hiylu would not even be mildly capable of creating faux-life (i.e., Azdrazi of her own, or even semi-draconic creatures). The reason why Azdrazi are able to be called Lesser Dragonkin is that the original organism is not becoming a “demi-dragon”; but a land-bound Titan instead. The inspiration for Nephilim, or Azdrazi, comes from literal Nephilim in Hebrew Mythology, and a reference made to them in Genesis as well. 

 

“The Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon (1908) gives the meaning of nephilim as "giants", and holds that proposed etymologies of the word are "all very precarious". Many suggested interpretations are based on the assumption that the word is a derivative of Hebrew verbal root n-p-l (נ־פ־ל) "fall".” - Wikipedia, Nephilim

 

- The whole concept relies heavily on the misstep Dragur made and his accidental “first sin” where much like Promethesus stealing fire from Zeus and giving it to Mankind, he began to create life-forms of his own in much the same way as the other AenguDaemonica of the era. You wonder where this ties in? Azdromoth is a fallen dragon. His children, which aren’t really his children and more so an experimental creation he designed to combat Iblees (a monumental failure, as he himself was turned into an Archdrakaar and his creation would end up slumbering for millenia within the ruined keep of Tor’Azdraeth after the genocide performed by Taynei’Hiylu (story goes that an Ent died in the middle of a Proto-Elf and Azdrazi skirmish within the bounds of the original desmene of Azdromoth and the Order of Nephilim). Source: [✓] Into the Trees - General - The Lord Of The Craft

 

- The status of Nephilim as land-bound giants is tied directly to their progenitor, Azdromoth. It is his material that they consist of and from which the first Wardren was devised. Their immense height and magnitude is not a result of draconic influence as you say yours is in your rewrite - it is directly tied to the fact that Azdromoth himself is the largest of all dragons currently alive. Furthermore, Deific-aligned Dragaar and Drakaar would never wish to imitate his creations. The Aspects would likely not respond well to the existence of Nephilim in any form. 

 

“Comprised not only of her draan, but of every energy that characterizes Taynei’hiylu; namely aspectual power, chi, and even her own soul essence, this living shard of the Green Dragaar is given its name for the method in which it functions; taking root within the body and soul of the aspirant and sustaining itself from them as a seed would from rich soil, enabling even the meager infusion to flourish and grow.” 

 

- As a concept this is not bad in the sense that an emphasis on DRAAN and not DRACONIC ICHOR AND INNER FLAME, would serve as a very solid distinction between Azdrazihood and Darasvira. The reason why Nephilim themselves have innate dragon characteristics is not because of their draan; it is because of their total physical reconstruction and rebirth that results in Inner Flame (dragon’s ichor) flowing throughout their dragon bodies and tissues. They are land-bound dragons in terms of physiology which is why they have no winged characteristics. Like the Nephilim of Hebrew Mythology, they are “fallen angels” so to speak in terms of their archetype, dragons fallen to earth in order to serve their master’s original purpose: which depending on your philosophy, is either the subversion of the Arch-Daemon Iblees or the attempt by Azdromoth to play god (Azdromoth is characterized as a very vain, narcissistic and belligerent creature, and nothing is known of him pre-corruption). This is why he deliberately played GOD. When Tsuyose came to me four-years ago asking if he could do Gudour-drazi for an event, I explained to him that no other type of Dragonkin would be able to devise such a ritual, and that has been the long-standing precedent. The only dragon rebellious enough to do such a thing would be the prodigal son of Dragur who was irrevocably tainted and perverted by Iblees, and forced to commit the debaucherous act of consuming one of his own kindred in a story very much akin to the myth of Cain and Abel. An act of fratricide marks where the morals of Azdromoth begin, and the morals of Taynei’Hiylu begin. In fact, Taynei is constantly at threat when manifesting in the physical world because Azdromoth is so active in the world as is. Why would Taynei’Hiylu seek to create her own perverted draconic liaisons, and how would she have stolen that cursed information from Dragur and Azdromoth? 

 

- In every semi-deific creature whether that is Azdrazi, Keepers, Itharel, Dark Itharel, and other such CA Races there has always been the following emphasis: The loss of personal identity, the loss of innate “human” characteristics that belong to Descendant Races (inability to produce offspring, inability to process and regulate behavior in a neurotypical fashion, other significant mental and physical drawbacks). The drawbacks of Darasvira seem to be as follows according to your lore piece. They are susceptible to Paladinism, Thanhium and Voidal Magic, and Corruption. These are for the most part the exact same weaknesses of Azdrazi in the present rewrite. They possess many cultural semblances of ‘DRACONIC MIND’ from Azdrazi (which is also the result of INNER FLAME and FULL-DRAGON physiology, NOT shared heritage. There is no mention of Inner Flame in this lore, and it is chalked up to what I assume is a swallowed Seedling that eventually reconstructs the Darasvira’s body in a method very much akin to Bryophites. 

 

Implementations to Better Darasvira:

- Reliance upon Druidic themes and not draconic ones. Go for Satyrs who imbibe potions, and tie it into other relevant Druidic lore pieces (Tree Lord alternative, Druidic Heraldry form, etcetera…) 

- Do not imitate the work of Azdromoth and Dragur, as that goes against the alignments of the Aspects, and Taynei’Hiylu.

- “Giant” traits do not work for Darasvira, those are directly tied to Azdromoth and not all Dragonkin. Taynei herself is a very young and underdeveloped dragon.

[Kalehart 1061]

Okay if I were to go through and reply point-by-point to all of these I'd have to write another fifty pages, so I'm just going to say that I have read what you say and appreciate the feedback, and have taken it into account. I've made a few adjustments with more to come, those now in place being:
 

• -Darasvira are no longer capable of learning or even assisting with standard druidic Unattunement
• -Alterations to height and strength have been deleted, they maintain size and strength equivalent to what they had before the transformation.
• -Scales no longer provide any additional defensive benefit.
• -Void magic susceptibility cannot be used to metagame anything the Darasvira cannot normally perceive.
• -Adjusted wording regarding Singing Trees.

To address a few common themes in these replies, though-

 

I'm not sure where the idea that dragonkin respect the Darasvira more than Nephilim comes from, the relevant ability doesn't say or even imply this. The specific line in the lore is this:

 

-Lesser dragonkin recognize the Darasvira as fellow draconic beings, and are less likely to aggress upon them because of it. This, however, does not mean that they won’t if they have any particular reason to, simply that it is not their automatic response when encountering them.

 

This is not a matter of respect, this is a matter of dragonkin realizing that they are not food. I further specify that pygmy dragons will not attack them because they regard them as stronger, which I think is reasonable. This is something I specifically saw roleplayed during a trip to the firelands, wherein the pygmy knew better than to attack the Azdrazi party passing through. I only extrapolated on this idea. I even went on to redline:

 

-Dragonkin will still attack the Darasvira if they have a reason to, they simply do not view them as prey by default as they would normal mortals.

 

Hopefully that answers that, I sincerely don't know where this perception came from.

 

More importantly is the idea that this lore is in some form a jab at the Azdrazi community- quite simply, it is not. I created this piece because I am very fond of dragon-themed roleplay, and wished to try and do a version completely my own to expand the niche in an interesting way. I started this project more than two months ago, on a whim, because I was inspired by a drake event I heard of whilst in Elvenesse, to try and get some more dragon roleplay going. I accept fault for my lack of communication, and appreciate how civil you're all being, as well as the criticism you offer.

 

I'm guessing this perception came from an RP interaction recently wherein my character watched his wife and child be murdered- and I'd just like to be clear that whilst he was absolutely ranting, raving, and spiteful as I think he should be, this is unreflective of my OOC feelings on the matter.

 

I may or may not take pieces of this, if it's denied, to try something else in the future, but I'm not going to be converting this into a satyr or anything of the sort at the moment. If what is proposed here, and that's what it is- a proposal- is unfeasible within the bounds of Taynei's abilities, I will not make a fuss over it being denied on that standard. I am not staunchly asserting that she could and should be able to do these things, I'm presenting lore wherein she does, to see if it is deemed feasible or not. In that vein- I welcome criticism of the idea, but have no real comment on it.

 

I recognize I'm leaving many other points out here but, I don't have the time or energy to break literally everything down. I've read all the comments, taken notes on the changes suggested, and I'll look at future edits to reflect those that seem fair.

[Jentos 6808]

Considering this CA has the ability to reproduce, what are the results of a mixture between the soul of a descendant and darasvira ? Are these to be wholly descendant, or will they bear a from of draconic mark ? 

[Kalehart 1061]

1 minute ago, Jentos said:

Considering this CA has the ability to reproduce, what are the results of a mixture between the soul of a descendant and darasvira ? Are these to be wholly descendant, or will they bear a from of draconic mark ? 

I would say that the child's soul is wholly mortal and unchanged, with draconic features and characteristics effectively just being genetic due to the Darasvira being physically half-draconic as well. Same as someone would pass on hair or eye color, they pass on diminished versions of the traits built into their physiology. That said, it's an interesting question I hadn't considered, so I'd be open to going either way.

[Nozgoth 2897]

20 hours ago, monkeypoacher said:

 

yea yea I read the first couple paragraphs of the lore don't yell at me

 

my question was more about a fundamental raison d'etre, you (the ST) gacked the snow elves & almost gacked kharajyr last map because you didn't want there to be too many races. eliminating redundancy is the exact thing you try to sell your controversial decisions on, which is why it's going to stick out to have two separate CAs in the same niche

 

again like I said you could rationalize that by making a single dragonkin race and having different progenitor dragons conferring their own traits & abilities (this also opens other creative possibilities!)

 

but lotc doesn't need two different azdrazi any more than it needs snow elves as a subrace so I personally would try to come up with a solid lore argument for them to exist, better than "uhh well they're only similar because they're dragons"

 

I second this

 

We can have two dragon people but we had to for some reason get rid of the monkeys; to what avail? These are the questions we should be asking.

8 hours ago, Jentos said:

having dragon sex in fae rings (I have known the lust of the druidic people)

 

unequivocally based.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Nozoa

[HurferDurfer1 2580]

20 hours ago, Ryloth said:

 

"**** you azdrazi we have our own dragon people"

is this the siliti of the azdrazi? 🤫

not looking good for the azdrazi if thats the case 

 

edit: looks like squak already clowned you with that one thats my bad