TheTri 378 Share Posted July 16, 2021 (edited) bro what if someone's carrying potions and a mage connects next to them. Conceptually it works and ur intention is solid, jjust needs to be polished. mages will literally chase alchemists around and try to connect, and if the alchemist is unlucky and has willo bottles and **** they will literally explode. Edited July 16, 2021 by TheTri 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaaKc 1225 Share Posted July 16, 2021 18 minutes ago, ScreamingDingo said: tbf this does actually make sense in the 'lore-verse' with whats been established with the material alphabet. The idea of the immaterial (the void) being stable and allowed near things that are innately made of the purest form of the material plane is something that can be confusing sometimes and what this amendment does is something that does make sense. yeah it does. its honestly an interesting addition, but this should've been something established years ago from the beginning. i would normally support things like this that show how the void and alchemy are polar opposites, but as said, this just inhibits RP. sorry pundi, can't believe i'm saying this, but -1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reckless Banzai Screamer 11533 Share Posted July 16, 2021 I believe it should be the mage that blows up, the material has more weight than the NOTHINGness 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerio 4595 Author Share Posted July 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, Letharian said: I'm a smooth brain who uses potions but doesn't make them: Does this mean magical connections short circuit or do the potions themselves explode? What happens if I throw a potion at a mage, do they lose their connection? If I stand near them, do they lose their connection? I've no clue how mana is extracted but would this affect the production of Auric Oil? The mage themselves doesn't suffer problems from the potion, its that reacts to them. If a mage connects while holding a potion then it explodes and likely causes them harm depending on what it is. Non-mages don't really have to worry about anything since there's a clause against weaponizing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumblefina 2244 Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, JustGrim said: I'm all for arguments but this is a bit much - you both have different ideas on alchemy. Though that is to both of you and Noz - we need actually conversation amongst us who practice alchemy. I know what alchemy is and was obviously simplifying things in regards to the lore post because it talks SPECIFICALLY about potions. I'm not going to comment any more on this because it's not adding to the discussion. If he wants to discuss the intricacies of alchemy then he should offer up some commentary about how this should affect animii, tawkin, and other facets of alchemy. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islamadon 4427 Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Sorcerio said: The mage themselves doesn't suffer problems from the potion, its that reacts to them. If a mage connects while holding a potion then it explodes and likely causes them harm depending on what it is. Non-mages don't really have to worry about anything since there's a clause against weaponizing it. My concern is that alchemy is the great equalizer for non-magicians bar crossbows; Would a will-o-bottle become inherently useless then if I tried throwing it at a guy connecting to the void? Unsure if that's what you mean by weaponizing it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child Neglecter 2134 Share Posted July 16, 2021 yeah i actually like this, just polish it up so that it fits your goal, @Sorcerio and so that it can't be used in the reverse to benefit voidal mages. I wouldn't say this weakens alchemy at all - it simply reduces the scope so that minmaxers aren't able to use both. As I understand it, the goal is to prevent Voidal Mages from using these potions in coordination with their own casting and their own Voidal abilities, so a Voidal Mage can't be two things that are the total antithesis of each other, which makes sense. Just add some stuff that prevents Voidal Mages from turning this back on itself and trying to have it so that alchemical potions used on them do not affect them, simply that they themselves cannot use them both for themselves or for other people. Also so that they don't try and use this to deactivate and turn other people's potions into bottled explosives. I'm genuinely of the opinion that anyone that's going to complain about this would otherwise just be both a Voidal Mage and an Alchemist, and if so, check yourself, please, since you're just going against the lore of the server and it doesn't make any sense even if it personally benefits you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLThomas 1066 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Most potions aren't that strong to begin with imo so I don't really see this as a necessary nerf. Kinda feels a bit too aggresive of a beat down on voidal mages who are in fact the most used magic on the server. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerio 4595 Author Share Posted July 16, 2021 Just to clarify, this is not nerfing alchemists, it's only making it so mages can't use potions and spells in the same encounter, or at least while still having potions on them. Mages don't passively cause them to explode, only when they choose to establish a Voidal connection. You can still practice alchemy, you just don't need to be using both at the same time. I'll edit it so mages can't just walk up and cancel potions, that's not the intent. It's only meant to harm mages who try to cast and use potionry simultaneously. Sorry if that wasn't clear. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jentos 6814 Share Posted July 16, 2021 31 minutes ago, ShannonLeigh said: Its literally just mashing plants and **** together. Void = nothing Plant mashing = physical It's about the symbolism behind the usage of alchemy, as it relies on ressources (that for the most part) are wholly made up of the contents of the physical realm of creation, the highest contrast of the void as a non-entity. In this way, they are polar opposites. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of The Moon 5119 Share Posted July 16, 2021 What have I done 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaldabaoth 743 Share Posted July 16, 2021 @Sorcerio As someone who is essentially entirely unaffected by this amendment, it seems extreme. Whilst indeed, joel is absolutely correct in that the material is antithetical to the void, we must remember that the more extreme side of this is seen 'metaphysically', ie; moonspeech, material alphabet, further alchemically inspired mentality and altered physicality. Bearing that in mind, it is absolutely fair for voidally aligned individuals to struggle with alchemical knowledge, as in fact the same is true for characters heavily involved with alchemy over magic. That being said however, this idea of basic voidal magic, and basic alchemy being somehow so antithetical to that it causes extreme un-usability and volatility in the opposing process doesn't really hold up against analysis. To provide a brief example of this, we must first realize that in cases where alchemy and void magic existed as mechanically oppositional historically, the alchemy involved is NOT typical, and contains very specific, unorthodox processes, tawkin, affliction, animii, so on. Voidal magic is, as has always been the case, able to be utilized on the material plane, a mage can summon a fireball in the physical world. Basic alchemy is fundamentally, the extraction, organization, and mixture of plant matters, which are found everywhere in the physical plane. Therefore, by asserting that since basic alchemy and voidal magic now suddenly cause fundamental failures in the other, you are also asserting essentially, that the actual mixture and concentration of such material components is the catalyst for said issues, in which case... Why? In the same way that matter on earth aligns to the periodic table, everything that exists in this universe is comprised of alchemical symbols, rocks, trees, dirt, air, and so on... All of these physical things(and much more) despite being 'comprised' of alchemical elements and being around quite literally everywhere a voidal mage casts are guaranteed *not* to interfere with each-other to the extent wherein they become unusable. So why then, does the higly situational mixture of such all encompassing components suddenly cause a physical reaction so blatant that it makes their combination worthless or even dangerous. Now that being said I understand the desire to keep alchemy and magic semi exclusive, a desire that I in some ways relate to, not only because using both in combination can indeed be powerful, but simply for the intrigue and aesthetic. Bearing this in mind, if you do still intend to restrict one from the other, I would recommend you do this *mentally*, wherein the mage is actively effected by the metaphysical dissonance of the forces/knowledge used, rather than the current proposition which as far as I can tell is more than relatively arbitrary. 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abyssus 486 Share Posted July 16, 2021 cool, the ten days i spend making a single potion can be undone by a single mage walking by casting a candle flame on his finger, or the one time i happen to fight a void mage i dont need to explain how immensely penalizing, stupid and abuseable this is, creativity on lotc is strangled right now as is, please stop ruining the game 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farryn 812 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Welp. That happened, not sure how I feel about it as an old generation alchemist player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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