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Your View - Clipping the Wings of Birds


ScreamingDingo
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birds ain't real.

 

I don't think building a system off of a plugin is a good idea but using a bird in any combat scenario should be prohibited. As for meeting up w/ others to RP, I don't think there is any issue w/ just msg'ing them "hey meet at x in 5 for rp" as you're not meta'ing to get an advantage, nor do I think the staff expectation would be for staff to ban folks organizing meetups.

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Insignificant piece of input, but here's my 2 cent on the matter;

I think being able to send letters almost instantly with the use of "birds" and /msg is just convenient for the plot. We could all agree that they should not be used during combat, though.

I feel we should just outline what is and isn't okay for "bird" RP and have certain rules/boundaries in place regarding it rather than throwing in extra steps/plugins that are just going to turn a quick, simple and convenient system into something complex.

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Jeez people are so afraid of interacting with others outside of their inner circle it’s insane

 

removing bird SMS telephone rp would require you to be more involved in your community in game. You’d be more cognizant of the city you live in, and yknow actually having to ask strangers if they’ve seen so and so. stop hiding behind locked doors and rping with the same 3 people. 
 

it’s really grating when I’m in the middle of an event and someone emotes getting a bird when we’re in the depths of a dungeon, or in the middle of nowhere. 

 

+1 one step closer to the utopia ideal, rise of the Eastfleet Express

 

 

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Yes please, I'm over of people who have been (almost) crippled during a combat encounter and out of nowhere, they emote their telephatic bird to heed to their rescue. And then you've got 15 people swinging swords around you- within a minute that the bird was sent. :).

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Birds should be restricted to out of combat encounters only, they're currently used as an excuse to meta rally.

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Whilst i wouldnt mind the ban of birds, i like using /msg to actually communicate with friends OOC about other stuff then RP and yes i can use discord, flicking between displays is really gonna annoy me when we could just message in game

Edited by Luxcio
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2 hours ago, breeni said:

Jeez people are so afraid of interacting with others outside of their inner circle it’s insane

 

removing bird SMS telephone rp would require you to be more involved in your community in game. You’d be more cognizant of the city you live in, and yknow actually having to ask strangers if they’ve seen so and so. stop hiding behind locked doors and rping with the same 3 people. 
 

it’s really grating when I’m in the middle of an event and someone emotes getting a bird when we’re in the depths of a dungeon, or in the middle of nowhere. 

 

+1 one step closer to the utopia ideal, rise of the Eastfleet Express

 

 

Hit me up when you start your courier express, I want to call myself Courier Six, leave a important package to some other dude, and go on a Lonesome Road.

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B-b-b-b-but aviary plugin!

 

 

Ok, so ye, I coded an aviary plugin that never really got implemented before, and I wrote the plugin for /notes. I'm biased, here's my thoughts on the subject:

 

First, if no plugin is added to the server, don't change a thing. Just because a player can more easily write notes, doesn't mean it's easy to write notes, head somewhere to send the note (like a courier or mailbox or something), and have the note delivered with actual time for it to make sense. Birds aren't only used for combat, many times are used to invite to areas or events, to communicate information that is rather simple between two characters, or just to goof around. Also many characters have pets which they use to send messages, which are kind of fun to rp at times.

 

Second, with an aviary plugin, when/if it's done. Don't prohibit the random birds calling for rp or events or things like that. Or at least only 'prohibit', as in "If it doesn't hurt anyone, we don't care". Though in conflict, or where it would be important to have a physical item that a note was sent, it would be manditory to use the plugin.

 

Now onto what I would do with aviary plugin:

- Aviaries in towns/cities which can be bought from Moderators. Any letter/note can be sent and received by anyone through any aviary.

- Sending a note would take some time (30s to 3mins) for the other player to be able to receive it. To send it, a bird is spawned that CAN be killed and will drop the note being sent. (Killing birds would be logged to ban griefters)

- There could be "personal birds" which have to be bought or gotten somehow. These can be used to send a letter/note at any place, but the bird would also be able to be killed mechanically, and it actually needs to be able to "escape" the area to send the note.

- There could be "personal mailboxes" which have to be bought or gotten somehow, to not having to go to an aviary to receive your mail.

- Just because there's a plugin, doesn't mean you can not emote and just use the plugin to send a bird. Just like it is right now, you should be able to be stopped before sending a bird.

- Every single bird is logged for moderators to be able to find abuse, harassment, etc

- Players would receive "You got mail" message when logging in, changing persona, or receiving mail.

 

Edit: Oh discord integration. "You got mail" in discord when you get a bird. No idea how to do that, but it should be possible, and interesting I guess.

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1 hour ago, Jistuma said:

Edit: Oh discord integration. "You got mail" in discord when you get a bird. No idea how to do that, but it should be possible, and interesting I guess.

Discord integration shouldn't be too difficult, depending on which api y'all use for the linkages between forums/discord/in-game, Could be as simple as getting the discord tag linked to the in-game account it was sent to and (if using JDA) you open a private channel, send a formatted message saying mail was achieved, and bam it's done. I suppose a toggleable setting would be nice for this feature.

 

(Discord Integration isn't as hard as it sounds, most of the time.)

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If anything, just require players to have a legitimate bird item in-game. Kind of like how you have to have a mechanical sword to rp having a sword. Maybe even provide a NPC manner of selling bird items that work akin to a beacon/rally machine. (Takes the bird upon use/until its received) 

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13 hours ago, Matheaww said:

I personally feel that the /msg mechanic should be removed and not replaced with anything period. It promotes RP to have a letter left in your mailbox or have a friend stop by for tea to have a chat instead of discussing over messages for an hour.

 

I think in the end we'll just have people use discord...

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I think it could be neat dynamic for both the irp economy and just irp flavor in general to have a courier system.

 

 

Picture this:

Someone goes to the courier office and asks the man on standby to run a letter from Haense to Norland, and so he takes the letter there accordingly. Then you get the classic courier running down the busy square yelling for the name of the intended.

 

This sparks roleplay, and creates the barrier between nations that Arcas was so criticized for not having. As well, one could go to an aviary and send a letter through that. Makes it so EVERYONE has to get out of their houses and make open, applicable rp for all. 

A courier system could also be neat for some sort of info monopoly, double agent type stuff, reading people's letters for villainy rp. Idk, it just sounds like there are 0 downsides to such an implement.

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"removing birds would incentivize interaction with other players / strangers in RP" 

Yes it would but what are the chances of you actually being able to locate the person you're looking for by asking tens of people in RP? unless it's someone well known like a leadership figure or something or if you're in a small enough playerbase, you're probably not going to be able to actually track down the individual you're looking for the legit way by doing this. Sure it's fun to interact with strangers, I've done it myself before, but I can say with 100% confidence that over the course of time that I spent in Helena last map asking strangers about a specific person who had attacked my character a few days prior, I got absolutely nowhere. It was fun but I made zero progress on that small arc despite asking stranger after stranger in RP.

But lets say you do find someone who happens to know who you're looking for - what then? Is every person you ask who knows the character you're looking for expected to know the whereabouts of them, whether they're on or offline? What are the chances of the character you're looking for actually telling someone, "Hey, I'll be going to x city!" every single time they go somewhere? 

It's good for interaction, but not if you just want to track down one fkn person but will have to spend days doing it. At that point like I said it just becomes seen as an OOC hassle and not an RP one when you want to do one basic thing but can't because HURHURUHRUH METAGAMING

"but not being able to find someone is part of roleplay isn't it?"

also yes however it will never change the fact that most people will not view it as "just roleplay." It will be viewed as an OOC roadblock by most players trying to track down their friend without "metagaming." trying to prioritize immersion or whatever this much over OOC convenience does nothing other than irritate people no matter how much it's played off as "figure it out in roleplay bruh" 

there are a million other avenues of interaction that could be made (such as incentivizing merchant and shop RP with the removal of the AH wink wink nudge nudge ;)  ), but preventing players from being able to accomplish something as unproblematic as meeting with your friend in another city shouldn't be one of them

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(Please forgive any misunderstandings I have of pvp rules here I'm recalling from old rules and I am not completely up to date on the changes regarding a few things.)

I support the idea of couriers in place of birds with the new notes plugin, but I want to be able to make full use of them. They aren't going to be useful in the context of pvp and in some crp if no one gets to send a courier to sneak away to rally others. The point of the birds for conflict RP was you could get help before pvp was called, and often got trapped at a disadvantage because no one else could join pvp after it was called. This rule has always been a little off to me as it handed select groups a perfect advantage. Rally close to 10 people and attack those you outnumber. I'm fine with abushes and fighting larger odds, so long as players getting attacked have the option to surprise them mid way through with reinforcements should the pvp last that long for them to arrive or catch them before they leave.

 

If the goal is to make conflict dynamic and fluid then the conflict itself needs to have options. Mid pvp rallies are one way how I see this happen, but it has to be a tactical choice with advantages and disadvantages. Couriers should have to follow certain rules that allow them to be intercepted rather than just SS'ing away from behind walls. If they are even allowed to SS at all, perhaps having to travel a certain distance before SS can be used, but even then they can only SS to CT if they are going to. The courier also should have to be part of the pvp making it so that if players are going to send one they have to sacrifice a player to do it. The time the courier is away getting help is time they are not fighting. Passersbys should also be disallowed from rallying people for either side as this opens a door for metagaming, unless certain rules can be made to allow three groups to pvp simultaneously without two secretly just helping each oocly resulting one getting away and the other wiping out the other. Ultimately the courier has to be from the original group, and only 1 courier can be sent per group. 

 

I don't think this alterative, if given enough thought and discussion than what I have spouted here off the top of my head, is going to break things. Getting caught on the road is not going to be a good time to send a courier usually (Sidenote: I also know travelling isn't common and I believe that is another thing that needs to be addressed. SS pillars or warping to the hubs really needs to go and I think of the two it should be the SS pillars but that is another topic.) Couriers are also likely to have a significant failure rate (which is kind of how it would go in reality), BUT at least it's an option on the table. When it does succeed however; it could make for a really neat forum post for whoever won because of reinforcements.

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