Your View - Clipping the Wings of Birds

[Minth_11 67]

I'd personally like to see something along the terms of an aviary, allowing people to check their mail and such. It'd remove the ability to send birds anywhere regardless if the birds know how to get there. This qwould add an extra barrier of defense against metagaming as you now also would have to prove a valid reason to check your aviary at exactly a specific time.

 

And I like looking in an aviary for mail, like everytime you go there, there could be a possible mail in your box! 

[Your Favorite Impure 734]

I just remember people hating the aviary plugin back in Anthos since it was much more of a hassle than it was worth. People thought it would be beneficial but it ended up being a detriment. I'm not opposed to lining out more defined rules regarding birds for combat situations (as other people have mentioned), but if the goal is to ban birds overall, another, more viable solution needs to be presented first and be ready to go.

[Your Stepdad 700]

Sorry but I dont rp using birds, I use Naked Meerkats so it looks like im in the clear of this rule

[FunOnTheBun 66]

11 hours ago, Unwillingly said:

the crux of not wanting birds to be used for combat isnt "I don't want my enemy to get aid," its "where is the logic in a random fuckoff bird being able to travel across the continent and locate a specific person like a bloodhound so they're able to summon an entire rally and show up to my exact location in 5 minutes?" 

What is the logic in being able to take a boat from Norland to Yong Ping in under five minutes? What about soul stoning, what about dinky tiny bells ringing whole guard forces? This is about "I don't want my enemy to get aid" because the birds being able to travel to their destination with their time is the suspension of disbelief that comes with all roleplay. If you don't want a goon squad to show up, kill the bird. Birds have brittle bones, slap it and it can't fly. 

[Unwillingly 11102]

10 minutes ago, FunOnTheBun said:

What is the logic in being able to take a boat from Norland to Yong Ping in under five minutes? What about soul stoning, what about dinky tiny bells ringing whole guard forces?

because none of these things you listed are combat related

a bell can only be run within a city or settlement as well and are typically only used to defend against raids on that city, where as birds are typiclly used to acquire foreign aid. elvenesse cannot use their bell to get military aid from haelun'or for example, but they could definitely do this with a bird while locked behind 20 iron doors in a bunker below the city

besides @monkeypoacheralready explained all of this, im basically just repeating it at this point

"my contention wasn't that it is impossible to stop a bird from being sent, it's that there is no compelling reason why I should have to" 

[Kriaan 45]

Honestly, yeah, birds may be used for meta, but their removal would imply the immediate establishment of the courier system, and less wealthy folk might have their options on roleplay severely maimed. If staff established some rules to bird messaging to “nerf” it, it might even become beneficial to turn to couriers, but so far, it’ll just make roleplay clunkier, I feel.

[Slorbin 1771]

 

[Scorpio_Sage 44]

While I do like the is idea of messenger animals whether they be birds, frogs, rats, etc.... I do feel how they're used needs more clarification. (Here is how I'd personally change them for crp use). 'Birds' if are used for summoning help/assistance, emote range should be adjusted to shout range and in a unroofed area. My reasoning for this, is so that both parties are aware that a 'bird' summons is happening and can have chance to react to it. (This emote should be obvious)  Also the 'bird' should be actually animal head in the senders hand at the time of the summoning/sending. Message itself, since it's written in haste should be one to three short sentences tops. 'Birds' like other rp interactions should have set dc to hit and disable them from use. If disabled then another 'bird' summoning/sending would have to take place before another attempt can be made.

[FunOnTheBun 66]

3 hours ago, Unwillingly said:

because none of these things you listed are combat related

a bell can only be run within a city or settlement as well and are typically only used to defend against raids on that city, where as birds are typiclly used to acquire foreign aid. elvenesse cannot use their bell to get military aid from haelun'or for example, but they could definitely do this with a bird while locked behind 20 iron doors in a bunker below the city

besides @monkeypoacheralready explained all of this, im basically just repeating it at this point

"my contention wasn't that it is impossible to stop a bird from being sent, it's that there is no compelling reason why I should have to" 

I think for massive wars and the such, if PVP is to occur the PVP rules are already implemented to stop people from joining into the conflict mid battle. Some of the rules for birds do need to be changed, like I think there should be another emote added for the opposing party to react to and that all bird emotes related to conflict should be within earshot of the opponents. With these rules I do not see how there can be any abuse of the power.

As stated by other people, there are a lot of problems to occur with getting rid of birds. Common RP will become sluggish and actual, unavoidable (in the punishment ooc sense), and unstoppable (in the RP sense) metagaming will occur during conflict. If you kill the bird, the opposing party has no excuse to know your location and provides an interesting RP mechanic. 

[BenevolentManacles 2232]

can we not please it seems like a huge pain in the ass for like basically no reward

[RoamingRonin 619]

Guys, guys...everyone knows that birds are not real. 

 

I personally have half the mind to remove birds from RP. They detract heavily from storytelling. Metagaming is a big issue on the server already, and the birds are just exacerbating the problem. 

 

I do not think /msg should be axed as a whole, simply because I use it when I wish to RP with folks, or when folks wish to RP with me. I think that only with valid RP could birds be viable. And even then, I still would be hesistant to have them in RP, for the sake of all the new birdkeepers who also double as bandits popping up on the server. Just my opinion. 

[bumblefina 2244]

Just code an aviary plugin already or find a way to use Curio for birds/letters

[prolo04 31]

Maybe its possible to add a feature where you have to wait 5-10 minutes to be able to send a "bird" so people wont metagame? Or make it a plugin where a chicken or playerhead flies to designated player with item or letter (I recall seeing this somewhere and am not sure if on a LotC announcement or elsewhere...)

[Rayna Star 167]

On 8/25/2021 at 12:18 AM, camocat9 said:

The main issue I see with this is trying to meet up with friends for casual roleplay. Got someone in a completely different city who you want to ask to come by for a simple conversation? Sure, you could try going to their home, but who spends time there? Or, you could leave a letter in their mailbox, but this wouldn't get you a response for hours if you just wanted to have a quick bit of roleplay before you had to log off for work.

All in all, these are just new obstacles, and not particularly fun ones either. All I want to do is get a friend to meet me to talk about a new product in my shop, not play minecraft manhunt for 3 hours just to have a 5 minute conversation when you finally do manage to track them down.

 

Birds, though, should be disallowed from a combat standpoint (crp or pvp to rally new players), but should still be allowed for the sending of basic messages outside of this.

 

^This. The truth is, birds are far too convenient for organizing non-combat rp to consider fully getting rid of them. As much as I love the idea of a courier system in the sense of it promoting rp, I know that it would just make what should be quick rp meetings incredibly difficult to schedule.

 

I'm not online often because of my job, so when I do get online, I need to knock out several conversations as quickly as possible in order to make the most of my free time and still get a good night's sleep. As an example, I recently was on my one character and she needed to speak to her husband, so I sent a bird. I had no clue where he was, but this was an important conversation that needed to happen that night because it had already been put off too long due to our login/irl schedules not lining up. If there were a courier/aviary system in place, he might not have received that message until it was already time for me to log off to go to bed.

 

Several people suggested a notification system for when you have mail in your aviary, but I don't see how this is less immersion-breaking than a torpedo bird. Rather, I can only see it becoming an added headache, especially if you're on the road at the time, because with the size of the map, both parties will still end up having to wait X amount of minutes until the person can get to an aviary. This detracts from time that could've been spent in rp on an rp server, which seems like it would only irritate players.

 

I think the simplest solution to this is to simply make the bird rules more specific. Don't allow birds to be sent/received in combat due to the heat of battle, don't allow them to be received in jails/dungeons/rooms without windows, etc.

 

Perhaps adding a rule about first confirming that a player is in a position to be able to receive a bird would be helpful as well. For instance, emoting "[!] A bird flaps its wings on the morning breeze, seeking a place to land" or some such thing through msg before just launching into your letter. Then the receiving player has a chance to deny the bird, following the rules above. This could still be inconvenient for rp that needs to happen quickly, but it at least makes ic sense while cutting down on some of the headaches of a static bird-receiving area. Or, perhaps, when a bird is denied, this is where a static aviary/courier's office could enter into the picture, giving players a chance to catch up on mail that was unable to be received previously. Don't ask me how that would all work, but it's just a thought. Honestly though, I think just sticking with the addition of a "no birds in combat" rule is going to be the simplest and best bet, because it seems like most of the issue here is related to metarally.

 

Obviously people are still going to find ways to meta around rules like this, but that's just life. Not everyone follows the law, but we still put laws in place to at least try to prevent things. All in all, I just really don't think that fully removing the bird system is going to improve quality of life for anyone, especially for players with limited time on the server. Apologies for the length of the post and if there's any circular logic, but there's a lot to consider with this issue, and I'm not sure if there's going to be one solution that will solve everything.

[christman 2216]

50 minutes ago, Rayna Star said:

 

^This. The truth is, birds are far too convenient for organizing non-combat rp to consider fully getting rid of them. As much as I love the idea of a courier system in the sense of it promoting rp, I know that it would just make what should be quick rp meetings incredibly difficult to schedule.

 

I'm not online often because of my job, so when I do get online, I need to knock out several conversations as quickly as possible in order to make the most of my free time and still get a good night's sleep. As an example, I recently was on my one character and she needed to speak to her husband, so I sent a bird. I had no clue where he was, but this was an important conversation that needed to happen that night because it had already been put off too long due to our login/irl schedules not lining up. If there were a courier/aviary system in place, he might not have received that message until it was already time for me to log off to go to bed.

 

Several people suggested a notification system for when you have mail in your aviary, but I don't see how this is less immersion-breaking than a torpedo bird. Rather, I can only see it becoming an added headache, especially if you're on the road at the time, because with the size of the map, both parties will still end up having to wait X amount of minutes until the person can get to an aviary. This detracts from time that could've been spent in rp on an rp server, which seems like it would only irritate players.

 

I think the simplest solution to this is to simply make the bird rules more specific. Don't allow birds to be sent/received in combat due to the heat of battle, don't allow them to be received in jails/dungeons/rooms without windows, etc.

 

Perhaps adding a rule about first confirming that a player is in a position to be able to receive a bird would be helpful as well. For instance, emoting "[!] A bird flaps its wings on the morning breeze, seeking a place to land" or some such thing through msg before just launching into your letter. Then the receiving player has a chance to deny the bird, following the rules above. This could still be inconvenient for rp that needs to happen quickly, but it at least makes ic sense while cutting down on some of the headaches of a static bird-receiving area. Or, perhaps, when a bird is denied, this is where a static aviary/courier's office could enter into the picture, giving players a chance to catch up on mail that was unable to be received previously. Don't ask me how that would all work, but it's just a thought. Honestly though, I think just sticking with the addition of a "no birds in combat" rule is going to be the simplest and best bet, because it seems like most of the issue here is related to metarally.

 

Obviously people are still going to find ways to meta around rules like this, but that's just life. Not everyone follows the law, but we still put laws in place to at least try to prevent things. All in all, I just really don't think that fully removing the bird system is going to improve quality of life for anyone, especially for players with limited time on the server. Apologies for the length of the post and if there's any circular logic, but there's a lot to consider with this issue, and I'm not sure if there's going to be one solution that will solve everything.

In most combative, and non combative, scenarios I've been in - having the extra emote to ensure the bird can be received has just become the norm amongst those I mainly rp with. 

 

There have been multiple times where one party as been in CRP, and unable to read the item or something similar along those lines. It adds the fabled immersion, while  also making it fair to most involved.

 

It's not a perfect solution, but I could definitely say that tightening the rules for birds would be far better than nerfing them all together.

 

Possibly it could be added that using a soul stone isn't allowed when rallying for a bird. Or, if CRP has already started - only a select few can be brought into the scenario. 

 

Also, getting rid of birds entirely would hinder a lot of non-crp encounters. Some people wanna do their wig rp, or their elven tree rp. Not everyone on this server is a murderhobo, or some evil cretin with the upmost need to kill.

 

But that's just my two cents, yknow.