Harassment, Hate, and Predators

[TakeMeT0TheFae 951]

I joined the server when I was 13, I am now 22.  In those 5 years of playing as a minor I experienced some truly terrible things but never had the guts to speak up about due to a variety of things... those mostly being that the players who did them to me were well respected in their communities and I was scared I would be accused of falsifying reports as I have never been a 'popular' player on this server.  People from nearly every community have spoken about their experiences in this thread and it's unnerving how predators have managed to sneak their way into every corner of this server, even into the niche communities like Halflings who at best have about 10 active players at a time.

This conversation has been a long time coming, thank you for bringing it up.

[Treshure 5579]

6 hours ago, Twodiks said:

 

This is one of the things I wish I could go back and insert into the video. The “intuition” in my head says more about getting specialized training and more ability to look into a situation — someone with training to look for insidious signs of grooming, for instance, may need less “nails in the coffin” than someone who needs it spelled out for them. 
 

I don’t think witch hunts or throwing around the word “pedo” is going to do us any good. Ideally, I want to start putting together resources to help learn from and educate player leaders & their groups.

[Strife 266]

In my many years of playing on this server, people have come and gone. Most seclude themselves into their communities and only talk in snide quips to other factions in some misplaced loyalty to a minecraft faction. However, you as always are an exceptional person, Treshure, and I am glad that you did something very bold and courageous to go this far. You're a god, brother, keep shining.

 

As for the matter of harassment on the server, it's been pretty common knowledge that if you are friends with a redtag, you get away with a lot. Grooming, harassment, sexual predation. Even when you aren't, you'd be hard-pressed to get anything done if you were just a common everyday player being bothered by someone who spends far too much time on the server and is well-connected, like KP. Anything can be dismissed without "hard proof", even if there's everything pointing towards it. I do not know if this is from a lack of care, or just general cronyism (I am a bit unclear on the KP things besides what I knew when I was active) but this is far from a new occurrence on the server.

 

So, I ask the administration that has ignored this, willfully or otherwise, for YEARS, what would you do to overcome this very clear problem of nonintervention and wrist-slapping for not only "minor" (I say this in relation to the previous things done) things like harassment, to absolutely grave things like grooming and pedophilia? Are you going to be more proactive about it, or are you going to brush this under the rug?

[1_Language_1 1670]

12 hours ago, Drunken Mutt said:

Yeah raising the rating would only make situations where a minor is being groomed less likely to come forward since they'll also just be banned.

I mean my friend has a discord server and someone said "if you don't want people putting nsfw into general chat why not just make a #nfsw channel" and literally it was like

 

Why put a NSFW channel to put nsfw out of general chats if WE DON'T WANT NSFW IN THE FIRST PLACE-- because having the NSFW chat will encourage the nsfw to be posted

[Statherian 3314]

I know I haven't been the kindest to you in the past and we certainly had our differences to say the least @Treshure (part of that was me being a jaded **** at the time, I'll admit that I wasn't the nicest person to you).

 

I can however say that I have nothing but respect for you in making this video. You come forth to start a conversation about the single most important issue that plagues this server, and is also part of the reason why I quit. It is a shame that a place which should be about providing people with a good time, an enjoyable narrative and a safe community has turned into a pit of degeneracy. Every single community has their bad people, which ever since joining in 2013 I could tell. The administration inherently has been unable to deal with things, because of how bureaucratic things have become.

 

You have all my respect for this post Treshure, and I'm glad there are people like you making an effort to improve the community and its safety.

 

 

 

 

See you in a month lotc forums

 

 

 

@Nozoa back to Nozcon we go!

[Llir 5713]

Hi Treshure, I wanted to share my thoughts on Safety on our server, I've written a post that can be found here:

 

[Drunken Mutt 171]

1 hour ago, 1_Language_1 said:

I mean my friend has a discord server and someone said "if you don't want people putting nsfw into general chat why not just make a #nfsw channel" and literally it was like

 

Why put a NSFW channel to put nsfw out of general chats if WE DON'T WANT NSFW IN THE FIRST PLACE-- because having the NSFW chat will encourage the nsfw to be posted

Sharing porn with the homies man

 

 

It's a bit ******* weird.

[TheBigBubbles 651]

As someone who has had first hand experience on the receiving end of some of this stuff as a kid. I and most any rational person will not ******* tolerate this kind of behavior. You are right, we as a community need to step up. Someone on staff literally has some minecraft server permissions and a shiny tag, that's it.

 

Lets do this.

 

edit: I literally discourage any of my friends who are minors from joining this server, that says something.

 

I must also mention that I often feel pretty  powerless when I hear about these situations. Which... I think might be a shared sentiment.

 

[ScreamingDingo 16798]

@Treshure

 

So, this is a piece that has a fantastic message behind its intent, but I believe its the equivalent of setting a powder keg off to clean a small rock in the road. There’s definitely a very different philosophy we both took on the server in regards to administrative ideas and reports of safety/harassment etc. You have a very emotional, passionate response to every situation and I will be honest, I attempt to try and be as ‘forgiving’ as possible for the benefit of the doubt that people would not actually commit these heinous acts and ideas. I do not like placing the guilt on rumors, I do not want to ban off hearsay and what I believe is that the integrity of our safety system should take into account the victims and the repercussions that come from that.

I will take responsibility for arguing against one of the main bans you speak about here, which was ‘romance rp’ between a 26 and 14 year old. This is the exact situation that forced you to quit, with a miasma of other issues that were happening. I cannot justify further as to why I held this belief, because I will be pointed as, as defending someone that you have publicly lambasted as a pedophile and groomer. This is one of the easily strongest and most difficult things to even respond against. I'm the red-tag who really has to take the burden and responsibility for ensuring people are kept safe and, that has not happened in the situation with the aforementioned player that all this discussion came from.

The Vardak issue is a hilarious one, he was banned for 6 months and was unbanned by the administration itself at the time. If you’re going to drag situations beyond that, I would appreciate you getting your facts right with that, we were speaking about that and I was the one who originally did prompt discussions about the actual revisiting of these bans eventually, since most of these were reports from 6+ years ago that were unbanned during their administrative times. I believe that my approach is not perfect, it definitely contradicts many and does not adhere to the lynch mob mentality that follows this. But it is one of care, it is one of wanting to believe that people are genuinely, not disgraceful and horrible people. I want the victims to not feel scared, I want the victims to not feel afraid of speaking to the administration but as we can stand, we cannot create that environment. For that, I must apologise as an administrator. I will take that burden that we did not act quickly enough, though the situations we have done and sorted, we have tried very much to do this and make this server a better place. I have spoken and handled numerous safety reports, which those in the community I am sure have interacted with in regards to that should know that I have the best intentions. 

 

Though, you attack mainly the integrity and beauty of roleplay through this, saying that it is inseparable no matter what, that there are no variances or changes between situations. This is something I will say as a long time roleplayer, that I believe is completely disingenuous and destroys the main ability and intent of the server. This is to roleplay a character, this is to not project your own feelings or situations to others but instead craft a narrative that benefits those you interact with in ways of complete depth. I want roleplay to be separated and believe it can be, but I also want to believe that malice is not behind every person’s words and intentions. Sometimes it is genuine stupidity, a lack of social skills or otherwise some poor wrong place at the wrong time accusation that ruins someone's identity online, which [does] extend past minecraft. Where people doxx, harass and target players that they dislike, there are always greater repercussions and consequences to actions. This is what people forget, this is what people mainly do not respect or care about. Everything that happens, everything that will happen has a consequence even if the intent was not there. This video itself could have genuinely placed some victims in danger if a single word was dropped, where the predator would double down to attack those they found were reported. This public blasting and lynching will do nothing for this community, except give a pat on the back to those that prodded the fire and make them feel like they’re better people. The weight of the words Grooming and Pedophile are things that genuinely, are not considered in great length on this server. They’re thrown around as buzzwords, and it does end up trivialising the entire situation of victims that face these issues. I want us to change in a culture to allow for the server to help recognise and then implement this into common community practice, instead of it being dangled as blackmail above the head of many.

But, I do not want this issue to die down and be the latest drama post since Punisher or Valaryon. I will be speaking with the administration and looking to help implement some more measures to show the transparency of the safety report process, the ideas behind it and the amount of cases we do actually deal with. I will also discuss publicising and making our resources more available to the players, while also looking to potentially implement hotlines and services that players can access if they are feeling in danger from others. 

 

No one but those that were truly inside the administration know what happens, and considering the amount of reports you help, you pick the one we had issues on because we both brought arguments that could swing either way. We had a difference in opinion and the way we conducted ourselves, and what that led to was a persecution of my entire character for a disagreement, for something I believed shouldn’t be immediately shot. I, as I’ve said, am happy to take the blame if this is what will get the players to actually acknowledge the dangers in the server, instead of only using them when they become most convenient to them. I do not believe myself to defend pedophiles or have destroyed the integrity of the server, implied by other players and this video exactly. My DMs are open for any discussion, any talk or genuinely any disdain you have against me. If we can channel this anger into somewhere productive, maybe we can actually change the server instead of letting it fizzle out. I was planning on stepping down from the administration soon, so you will not have to deal with my “innocent before guilty” concept for much longer as an administration. The damage has been done with this post, but all I hope is to see something come good out of the aftermath. 

 

The biggest issue here is that you as an administrator was that you have turned into a victim blamer when you had the very same power to push these changes. I’ll even mention that you literally would not vote on a ToS approval of a dude who was banned 6 different times for ERP, because we could not agree on a situation. You are an extremely self-destructive individual who has actually endangered a lot of people with this idea and message of “awareness”. This entire situation sits extremely sour in my mouth, because most people know that KP wasn’t exposed for good will, he was exposed because it was an easy thing to get rid of him and get people to be claimed as emperor. [This is to not disregard the feelings of his victims, my DMs are open about anything with that]. I have spent my administration on the ground, helping with a large amount of safety reports and trying to keep people safe on this server, but you have spent the entire administration doing bar nothing but roleplaying on a special character I gave you and then started virtue signalling when you left because its easier to not take blame. You are not the shining beacon of hope and virtue you say to be, and it is downright disgusting that this issue has been projected to be forgotten by the playerbase because of its violent upheaval and damage that have happened in the aftermath. You do not understand the consequences of your actions, you never have and never will. I will lose no matter what stance I take, since I am the bad “redtag” who wanted to believe someone who was not malicious in intent. For all the victims that I have not helped as much as I could, I am sorry. I will do better, for those I have spoken to, I want you to know that I’ve tried my best to make things safer and better for the community as a whole.

And anyone who actually knows my past on this server, should know what I used to do instead of being civil on the server. I’m not defending anyone who is guilty, I am simply frustrated that this issue is not the highlight of safety, it’s a lynch mob that will be forgotten.

As a side note. Shout out to @D A N N Y and @Charbi specifically, these are absolutely headliner staff that have made their contributions to the community from this heinous event. They have been absolutely paramount and I hope to see them get more intertwined with the community to help protect it. With also the administration and the On Safety post, the administration mean to keep people safe. Please help us protect the community.

 

[warlord of filth 7713]

Just now, Neckbeardicus Prime, Riblord of Aesterwald said:

the community will not change unless it holds itself accountable

 

relying on staff to protect people is like counting on the police to prevent murder

community (especially humans) could’ve very easily just blackballed KP and kept him out, but they didn’t 

 

and those same players are screaming at Joel / red tags that they didn’t do anything

 

well neither did they :/

[Tentoa 1991]

This issue has been known for 10 years, the player that started this fiasco has been known about by the playerbase that hosted him, snuck away in closets and ignored until it became convenient to dispose him for some minecraft power. 

Those of you who are grandstanding on how you've saved the community, you sat on the sidelines for years and know who you are. You knew and didn't become conscious objectors to letting him advance in your OOC orchestrated playergroups for the six  years or more that this was the worst kept secret on LoTC. You're parading around on your laurels for calling this out when you only did it because it is convenient for you.

LoTC is a game, but the safety of our younger players is not a game. It isn't something you can ignore for the sake of your pixel power; you are adults and you need to take a stand on this, you need to shine up your spine and do the right thing when it doesn't just benefit you. 

If you are an adult on this server, you need to watch out and do your part to keep our little dudes doing adventure RP and one-lining with pink names in shitty skins safe. You need to be a role model for your younger players and make this a safe environment for them. 

[TheBigBubbles 651]

18 hours ago, Zarsies said:

As of about a month ago I turned 23. I joined the server when I was 12, when our community was the most unmoderated and feral, and in the difference I've been exposed to the best and - obviously relevant to this topic - worst of not only the internet at large but our very niche, secluded, dim corner of the web. In the first month of Aegis being released I encountered Indelwyn, DecoLamb, and Vardak (three names which should jog the memory of any old hat), the latter two being a pair I fell in with in the (hopefully forgotten) group House Thyone and stayed in their company for roughly 18 months. Even having firsthand real-life experience with sexual abuse, predation, and grooming at that age I did not recognize their behavior and abuse of my closest friend(s); at no point until the victim came to me in distress did I realize what had been going on for so long. Even in the wake of these revelations, bans, and shattering and splintering of friend groups I was a dumb kid and didn't think twice about starting a physical relationship with an LotCer in my area at 14 years old. In the same vein I was cozy and friendly in Ski_King's circle before and during his tenure as admin and at no point recognized the suffering of his multiple victims nor was I wise to what attempts he made at me until years after the fact. I failed my friends.

 

I have seen the abuse of minors most of my life: real life friends, online friends, online acquaintances, family, and myself. Nothing triggers me or boils my blood more than this subject. Not only does it rile up my traumas and start my waterworks but it bristles my base humanity and wrings out my sympathy to leave only raw hate. Beyond being our duty as humans to care about one another, this space - this community, our many circles - is special to all of us and we know what grand fun, healing, and connection it is capable of and it is our duty as a sprawling group of invested, dedicated friends to protect one another and preserve those feats. The friendships I've forged through this community are as strong as my oldest and most intimate friendships in my personal life of which there are many. I am thankful for LotC. I am thankful for my many friends. I am thankful for you. I love us, you are my people, and beyond wanting to entertain ourselves and each other we NEED to protect ourselves and each other. Nonetheless I have failed to be that guardian time and again. I failed my dearest friend, I failed acquaintances in my community, and I have failed myself and that disappointment fuels my unrelenting rage to this day. I'm an adult now. I am vigilant. I'm willing to throw down anything on the line to prevent the pain I have experienced. Our world is becoming progressively more fucked up and our passions and pastimes should not be another source of stress.

 

We put up with Leowarrior. We put up with Viltaren. Now we put up with HappyShackles. If communities cannot guard themselves just as my vigilance has failed to guard my peers and I then it falls on the people designated to protect us to act. If we were more organized in those days I expect things would be different. If I had an adult nearby something would have caught their attention. Instead we've classically been a horde of barely managed angst teens who come and go and don't learn our lessons. We lack responsibility. We lack accountability. But now more clear than ever we lack humanity.

 

Begone with the bureaucracy and the legalese. Begone with the soullessness. Shoot the shot. If you can't be this shield then let someone else. We knew about all of these people well beforehand and allowing them a place here allows them more opportunities to ruin us. I was ruined and I'm still climbing out of that pit. No one deserves this pain. Act. Please, my friends. For us.

I don't think it could be said any better than this. It's heart-wrenching to hear what happened to you. I also experienced something similar elsewhere, and I can only say nothing really stops the feelings from boiling up again. To be able to be so eloquent when emotional is a skill I'm not sure I possess.

 

Thank you for this well-written statement, I hope people listen.

[Treshure 5579]

1 hour ago, ScreamingDingo said:

@Treshure
 

So, this is a piece that has a fantastic message behind its intent

 

 

 

This is a malicious response dressed as something empathetic. Your reply is infested with contradictions, and I refuse to respond beat for beat at risk of riding down your own lane of delusion. The response that @Llirprovided is much more potent and worth reading.

 

I'm going to ask that you get me out of your head. Instead, read through the pages of these responses and see the stories that people have offered up about themselves. I've received an equal amount of folks reaching out through Discord, telling their own stories as minors on the server, many of whom feeling that they could not share it otherwise. Tell them that this is a "small rock in the road". I'm not claiming ownership over any of this, and I'm actively refusing to present anything to the those who identify with it, because it's not about me. 

 

But you're not looking at this. You say the video has a fantastic message in your reply, and then quickly turn to accusing it of inciting lynching and throwing around buzzwords. You mock the idea of it spreading "awareness" (your double quotations, not mine). People are excited that these things are being talked about? You say it's not safety - it's a lynch mob. The entire reply insinuates how excessive the video was, but then you promise measures to instill more safety features for the Community. You end in thanking several community leaders for making good of this "heinous" event, when it was the explicit point of the post to defer action to community leaders. You are hilariously tone deaf, but not only that, you try and twist the truth into one of your own making. It's a bad move to make so publicly, and I hope that others recognize the malpractice in this reply.

 

I also want to warn you to be careful of projecting your own feelings into this. I've never called myself a "beacon of hope and virtue" - this is coming out of your head. I did far more than play your little pet character during my tenure, but I'm thankful that I don't feel like I have to justify myself in your presence anymore. It's disgusting that you take this situation, debase it, and then proclaim that you are going to be the one to fix it and make it right.  You come off as a deeply insecure human being -- I had only wished you kept it to yourself this one time.

[ScreamingDingo 16798]

4 minutes ago, Treshure said:

 

 

 

This is a malicious response dressed as something empathetic. Your reply is infested with contradictions, and I refuse to respond beat for beat at risk of riding down your own lane of delusion. The response that @Llirprovided is much more potent and worth reading.

 

I'm going to ask that you get me out of your head. Instead, read through the pages of these responses and see the stories that people have offered up about themselves. I've received an equal amount of folks reaching out through Discord, telling their own stories as minors on the server, many of whom feeling that they could not share it otherwise. Tell them that this is a "small rock in the road". I'm not claiming ownership over any of this, and I'm actively refusing to present anything to the those who identify with it, because it's not about me. 

 

But you're not looking at this. You say the video has a fantastic message in your reply, and then quickly turn to accusing it of inciting lynching and throwing around buzzwords. You mock the idea of it spreading "awareness" (your double quotations, not mine). People are excited that these things are being talked about? You say it's not safety - it's a lynch mob. The entire reply insinuates how excessive the video was, but then you promise measures to instill more safety features for the Community. You end in thanking several community leaders for making good of this "heinous" event, when it was the explicit point of the post to defer action to community leaders. You are hilariously tone deaf, but not only that, you try and twist the truth into one of your own making. It's a bad move to make so publicly, and I hope that others recognize the malpractice in this reply.

 

I also want to warn you to be careful of projecting your own feelings into this. I've never called myself a "beacon of hope and virtue" - this is coming out of your head. I did far more in than play your little pet character during my tenure, but I'm thankful that I don't feel like I have to justify myself in your presence anymore. It's disgusting that you take this situation, debase it, and then proclaim that you are going to be the one to fix it and make it right.  You come off as a deeply insecure human being -- I had only wished you kept it to yourself this one time.

You have done irredeemable damage to victims you have basically implicated and hurt during your video. You have overstepped and endangered people, caused distressed and genuinely fucked over these victims in awareness. It disgusts me seeing you do this, spitting on everything you worked with and you were there with the discussions with the aformentioned cases. Did you drive and attempt to enforce these? No, you stood aside and did nothing. You say you fought so hard for this situation, but you have ended up gaslighting multiple people into thinking that the evil of this server lies with the administration, it lies with me.

I really do hope that you step back from the server. You have no grasp of consequences for what you do on this server and how it actually affects people. You attack my personal character, you attack and attempted to diagnose me with mental issues over not wanting to ban someone without hard evidence for the cases of defamation and legal action. You have utilised a situation that should've been cleaned up, publicised it and made it a bonfire where people have genuinely been fucked over by this. You need to step back from this server entirely as you preached about for the entire tenure as admin, how you hated the server and how you would genuinely block votes on 'approvals' because I did not agree with you. You've done your damage, and now we have to clean up the oil spill that you've done that damages so many more in your blind crusade that has no consideration for anyone but yourself. Grow up, understand that things on this server revolve not around your ego. I'm fed up and frustrated, not because of the personal attacks on me. I am frustrated that this has made people on this server even more unsafe for certain members. I cannot forgive you for that. And I hope those that have been affected by this nonsense are able to recover and learn from this.

[Treshure 5579]

1 minute ago, ScreamingDingo said:

 

 

I've cleared the air and apologized with those I've mentioned in the video. Have you? Because mentioning their age was one thing they explicitly asked not be done -- and you just did, today, in your reply. As for the aforementioned cases? You controlled every single one of them and shut it down based on the reasons for the video. I quit because when I finally made a stand, you said that you would bin the safety situation because it clearly wasn't attracting any of the other Admins' interest. 

 

You mention that I attacked your personal character in our private arguments -- was that before or after you said I was out of my mind because I had run out of my medication that day? You want to keep dragging out personal stuff into a public forum? I mentioned you in the video as a means to the argument's end - you took that personally, and drew on our personal falling out to paint me as some reckless actor hellbent on boosting his own image. If you want to insist on manufacturing these fantasies, do us all the favor to unblock me on Discord and dump these thoughts there. What a waste of everyone's time reading this.