On Safety

[LobsterLilly 605]

This post was very much needed, i hope to see better action and processes in the future or there will be a sh*t storm. As a minor who has been almost groomed on LOTC back when i was what, 15?, I want safety and we need it to be safe. We have young players on this server that barely even made the 'teen' mark. LOTC is meant to be this fun place where you meet new people and for some to even get away a bit from troubling families or life, it can not be dangerous, we can't allow for it to be. 
 

[warlord of filth 7713]

1 hour ago, Nathaniel Calding said:

@breeniI talked with KP a few times on discord, and this is honestly the first time that I've heard about his reputation. Oren is inundated with new players who won't necessarily know about this. This is why it's important to talk about this sort of thing - so people know.

 

its not the noobs im talking about mr. whitewalker

 

a lot of human / oren oldguard have been around the server for years. KP has been a polarizing figure for years. many of these same human veterans i previously mentioned have been in and out of leadership for years. i do not blame the poor noob who joins and has zero idea who this guy is other than "oh he's the emperor".

 

the people who should be taking a large part of the blame are the very same who have allowed him to have characters in lines of succession, it's the players who have known what a freak he was since kaphro that have allowed him to exist in any capacity within humanities upper echelons. this guy has been allowed to stay around and hoodwink newer generations for years.

 

i remember hearing about happyshackles weird behavior as far back as the fringe, and i have made a mission out of avoiding interaction with him since. but time and time again, this dude was given a platform to act on, and that platform doesn't come about by chance.

 

ask yourself this, can any noob just become emperor by chance? no. because the line of succession is carefully maintained on an OOC level. so why, oh why, is everyone not taking a moment to look at the people who ALLOW players like KP to even have a smidge of influence other than being laughed at and kicked out for being a weirdo? 

 

everyone can badger staff and admin and throw @ScreamingDingodown a well because of treshure's vlog. but it's honestly startling as someone whose known about KPs behavior to see ZERO conversation about why veterans of the server and the community he was in take an ounce of the blame or responsibility for giving that dude the microphone whatsoever. staff is an easy scapegoat for this. staff is ALWAYS an easy scapegoat. but really? just them? 

[VoidandNull 356]

For a while I stared at this Admin response and topic, and tried to wrap it all around my head. There is no easy way to start a conversation like this, and it is a hard pill to swallow. I think many people right now are taking two sides. One, it's the Admin's fault. Two, It's the player's faults. I can see the arguments for both sides and see why people take them. Its easier to blame admins, and while they did sit on the Issue of KP for a while, the Community also has an impact. They could have gladly, and easily, ejected him from the community for being a creep. But from what everything I see here, is that both sides are at fault. 

Little do I see a time where predation isn't joked about on the server. Hell I do it myself. I consider myself a part of the problem where we make fun of people's horrible experiences. I don't think a simple post, video, or well thought out argument is going to change that in many people. This community, admins included, have worked their best to try and oust pedos and creeps, groomers and typical discord admins has best they can. But my problem is, how fast is this conversation going to die out? Will next week go back to normal? Everyone joking and laughing, while letting these vile people have some sort of platform?

As us the players, it is our job to help our own communities. We are supposed to band together to have fun, as well as keep each other safe. With this issue, many communities have shown that they failed that. It hurts my heart to see. Seeing Dingo and Treshure battle it out in his video post disgusted me, considering it was two prominent people in the community who both want the safety for others lashing out at each other. This is a breaking point. LOTC needs change. Perhaps a qualified safety team, one which is made up of individuals who know how to investigate and speak to others so they can find the groomers and pedos. Maybe safety protocol, maybe this and that. I'm not one for a solution, but I am one to speak.

I've seen many players be the subject of awful things. I hold guilt for it. I've been friends with horrid people who should have never been here in the first place. Remembering the times where I brushed over people cause I was a teen who didn't care for others hurts because I know I could have at least done something about it. So, I take my stance. All parties are at fault. Something needs to change. Cause if it doesn't, then next week we will go back to forgetting that this ever happened and making jokes, while our younger side of the community is hurt, exploited, and their safety is taken from them through a god damn game of blocks. 

[The Media Wizard 2954]

1 hour ago, VoidandNull said:

For a while I stared at this Admin response and topic, and tried to wrap it all around my head. There is no easy way to start a conversation like this, and it is a hard pill to swallow. I think many people right now are taking two sides. One, it's the Admin's fault. Two, It's the player's faults. I can see the arguments for both sides and see why people take them. Its easier to blame admins, and while they did sit on the Issue of KP for a while, the Community also has an impact. They could have gladly, and easily, ejected him from the community for being a creep. But from what everything I see here, is that both sides are at fault. 

Little do I see a time where predation isn't joked about on the server. Hell I do it myself. I consider myself a part of the problem where we make fun of people's horrible experiences. I don't think a simple post, video, or well thought out argument is going to change that in many people. This community, admins included, have worked their best to try and oust pedos and creeps, groomers and typical discord admins has best they can. But my problem is, how fast is this conversation going to die out? Will next week go back to normal? Everyone joking and laughing, while letting these vile people have some sort of platform?

As us the players, it is our job to help our own communities. We are supposed to band together to have fun, as well as keep each other safe. With this issue, many communities have shown that they failed that. It hurts my heart to see. Seeing Dingo and Treshure battle it out in his video post disgusted me, considering it was two prominent people in the community who both want the safety for others lashing out at each other. This is a breaking point. LOTC needs change. Perhaps a qualified safety team, one which is made up of individuals who know how to investigate and speak to others so they can find the groomers and pedos. Maybe safety protocol, maybe this and that. I'm not one for a solution, but I am one to speak.

I've seen many players be the subject of awful things. I hold guilt for it. I've been friends with horrid people who should have never been here in the first place. Remembering the times where I brushed over people cause I was a teen who didn't care for others hurts because I know I could have at least done something about it. So, I take my stance. All parties are at fault. Something needs to change. Cause if it doesn't, then next week we will go back to forgetting that this ever happened and making jokes, while our younger side of the community is hurt, exploited, and their safety is taken from them through a god damn game of blocks. 

 

Well said.

 

We need strong administration and strong player leaders to make this work. @Bhased has spent an incredible amount of time and effort to make sure that creeps are ejected from our community. He works in tandem with administration to make sure it happens with as little delay as possible. We need to agree that harboring and justifying people like this in our communities is not okay and start to report.

 

Within this week alone, I have heard multiple people talk about communities I actively roleplay with having a significant population of pedophiles and sex pests. I do not know the validity of the statements, but to be told that I could be interacting with people like this daily with others knowing was a harsh wake up call. It is time to take this into our own hands instead of dancing around the subject.

[rukio 8909]

 

We've seen many such posts from administration over the course of the last three years. Every time one is posted the community feels relieved and drops the topic and trusts those in positions of power to ensure it doesn't happen again. This is the vicious cycle of grooming, pedophilia, and abuse on lordofthecraft. This culture is unchanged. All you have to do is go look at Menarra coming back on Treshure's post to antagonize Vardak's victim and moderation doing nothing but locking the post to stop the conversation to realize that this is just a way for another team of admins to put duct tape over the growing crack in the dam. Also, this post is nothing but face saving politician speech. I'm still genuinely upset over the things said in our conversation and hope you never speak to another victim that way. Apologies for not biting my tongue and writing this, but it needed to be said.

 

At what point do we finally ask ourselves "Is this server worth keeping around when it is so dangerous to minors and vulnerable people in general?"

[drfate786 1639]

Posting this here since it's relevant:

 

This community isn't for children anymore, stop pretending like it is.

What disgusts me the most is the admin staff feigning safety, someone contacted Mojang enforcement after the outcry and they were promptly contacted with what I will presume is a threat of another blacklist. That's why Llir addressed all of you. It has nothing to do with safety, they knew about KP and know about all of the other sex pests, they just think they're not legally liable so they let them do as they please until communal outcry occurs.

 

It's only once the community shows public outrage and the threat of a blacklist is looming over them that they choose to act.

They have no intention of ever addressing the real core of the issue which is that this is an R rated server. ERP is bad, don't do it.. But so is this community which is why it attracts predators.

The truth none of you will admit, that none of you can possibly ever swallow is that you are the problem. That the staff just mirrors the community to a tea, THAT they're a reflection of the LOT OF YOU. They're exactly what all of you are and it pains you to admit it.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by drfate786

[drfate786 1639]

On 12/6/2021 at 1:50 AM, D3m0n_L1lly said:

This post was very much needed, i hope to see better action and processes in the future or there will be a sh*t storm. As a minor who has been almost groomed on LOTC back when i was what, 15?, I want safety and we need it to be safe. We have young players on this server that barely even made the 'teen' mark. LOTC is meant to be this fun place where you meet new people and for some to even get away a bit from troubling families or life, it can not be dangerous, we can't allow for it to be. 
 

 

No, groomers will always exist in this community. If you ban them they come back on alts and pretend to be someone else. The only solution is to simply force the server to be 16+ and take away the potential victims, the administration is clueless and powerless on how to go after groomers and discord predators. 

 

At the end of the day, the community is complacent. KP was only exposed to suit someone else's ends to get rid of them OOC'ly, it was a political move and what they did had nothing to do with it. Someone wanted the mineman throne so they used his logs to get it. 

 

 

On 12/6/2021 at 6:20 AM, breeni said:

 

 

everyone can badger staff and admin and throw @ScreamingDingodown a well because of treshure's vlog. but it's honestly startling as someone whose known about KPs behavior to see ZERO conversation about why veterans of the server and the community he was in take an ounce of the blame or responsibility for giving that dude the microphone whatsoever. staff is an easy scapegoat for this. staff is ALWAYS an easy scapegoat. but really? just them? 

 

LoTC is a popularity contest, that's why.

Edited December 7, 2021 by drfate786

[satinkira 5798]

7 minutes ago, drfate786 said:

 The only solution is to simply force the server to be 16+ and take away the potential victims, the administration is clueless and powerless on how to go after groomers and discord predators. 

 

 

I mean, I'm a little biased... but aren't you just punishing the victims at that point?

[drfate786 1639]

14 minutes ago, Nathaniel Calding said:

I mean, I'm a little biased... but aren't you just punishing the victims at that point?

 

Depends, is it a punishment to have parental controls? Is it punishment to stop mature content from reaching those most vulnerable to it? We can't keep the weirdos away so we shouldn't allow potential victims to be a part of this community. It's not safe and never will be.

Edited December 7, 2021 by drfate786

[Unwillingly 11106]

10 minutes ago, drfate786 said:

 

Depends, is it a punishment to have parental controls? Is it punishment to stop mature content from reaching those most vulnerable to it? We can't keep the weirdos away so we shouldn't allow potential victims to be a part of this community. It's not safe and never will be.

how would you propose this is thoroughly, realistically, and accurately moderated

[drfate786 1639]

21 minutes ago, ᴜɴᴡɪʟʟɪɴɢʟʏ said:

how would you propose this is thoroughly, realistically, and accurately moderated

 

How do you propose we thoroughly and realistically moderate all of the groomers? What happens when they make an alt account and keep doing it? What happens when they know they can and WILL get away with it? Would you propose that Llir or Telanir get the authorities involved? How would they resolve the issue?

 

Ban the minors, ban the pedos. It's a nuclear solution and that's why it works. Don't be a devils advocate. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by drfate786

[Unwillingly 11106]

14 minutes ago, drfate786 said:

 

How do you propose we thoroughly and realistically moderate all of the groomers? What happens when they make an alt account and keep doing it? What happens when they know they can and WILL get away with it? Would you propose that Llir or Telanir get the authorities involved? How would they resolve the issue?

 

Ban the minors, ban the pedos. It's a nuclear solution and that's why it works. Don't be a devils advocate. 

only saying that bc there are ppl who are advocating for banning all minors on LOTC but can't actually propose a method of moderation when people point out how flawed the idea is. the only way this could actually be done is if we asked people to dox themselves by showing either their face or ID. some of the most malicious people on LOTC have been on staff and I'm sure we can both agree the normal staff member could not be trusted with that power

if the solution you propose isn't something that can be moderated any better than the problem itself, it isnt a solution

[Ryloth 4312]

1 hour ago, ᴜɴᴡɪʟʟɪɴɢʟʏ said:

the only way this could actually be done is if we asked people to dox themselves by showing either their face or ID.

 

that's exactly how it should be handled

again as i've said before, there's many RP communities where ID enforcement is followed to guarantee the safety of the players therein. it's not just groomers and pedophiles that you need to protect minors from as well -- there are many things on this server worth protecting from.

gore rp is a strangely common theme i've crossed that has been played by both staff and player to express incredibly descriptive moments of death or injury, torture, etc irp, and for no reason. i don't believe anyone under 18 should be subject to that type of rp, and i don't really believe people over 18 should be either; it's even protected against in the rules, yet it's done anyways.

there's very grotesque, dark roleplay all around that's accepted without any mention in the rules -- suicide, homocide with extreme complexity behind it to disturbing lengths, mental illness, drugs, disease, and what i can only describe as "filth" so i don't have to describe it, i've all seen on the server and in some cases it's been prolific. none of that is PG-13 or less. it's all a rated R/M content level.

even the youngest age you can apply at is (iirc) 13 with parental permission, and 14+ is all liable to just if you say you're that age. who the hell knows their actual age, what if they're 10, 11, 12? full disclosure back when i applied in 2013, 5 of the friends i applied with lied about their age to meet the minimum requirements, and some of them got on the staff teams including GM management and even went up for a Admin, despite being under the minimum age requirement. meanwhile GMs today are handling some pretty explicit reports sometimes. you can't do that with ID enforcement unless you've a fake ID, and if you're caught, sorry but that's illegal and the staff can do whatever they want per what the ToS dictates at that point.

i support the nuclear option of 18+. everyone complains that it's "victim shaming" -- no, it's for your protection from these themes of RP that staff have failed to interdict and shut-down; and it's not always because they dropped the ball and didn't make the right decision, it's because a lot of these things i've mentioned are impossible to regulate without reporting it. they'd never know. players under the minimum require if a change like that happened should and would be allowed to re-apply once they turn 18 and have an ID to verify that as authentic.

 

"but if i ID myself i can get doxxed"

dunno what to tell you on that. the ToS can be written in ways to protect your precious ID card that literally anyone and their mother can request from you at stores, gas stations, restaurants, bars, clubs, before denying you entry/sales/purchases. if you feel like staff would abuse that, don't supply it and don't play, simple as. that's your right.
 

there's secure companies that act as verification mediums for things like this lol. (man if only lotc could open a patreon to fund something like that + its devs) it's like showing your ID before riding a roller-coaster limited to certain ages for safety reasons. they'd rather not have a guy check your height and weight and maybe offend you for doing it, they'd rather give a glance and check your DoB instead for efficiency.

 

if the server can't protect its players, it's maybe a better idea to shut down for those concerns, and so i find the nuclear option or the shutdown option the best two solutions to every problem

[dogbew 267]

No minecraft roleplay server needs to be 18+, just ban pedo's when they crop up and don't do weird shit on the server. Its not hard, folks.

[argonian 12836]

2 hours ago, dogbew said:

No minecraft roleplay server needs to be 18+, just ban pedo's when they crop up and don't do weird shit on the server. Its not hard, folks.

yeah dunno why ppl are acting like the occasional freak in a community that's had literally tens of thousands of members means we need to go mental

 

******* ID to play a blockgame server lmaooo