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IS IT ME, OR WARS DON'T FEEL THE SAME?


MadOne
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Tldr of modern LOTC (Been on the server for 1.5 years now and haven't been to a single warclaim btw):
-War rules (and conflict in general) are stagnated because of OOC toxic goons, to save roleplay on the server (great)

-Conflict stagnation takes effect, SoL RP blooms (great)

-No incentive to war each other, nothing meaningful is occurring (Not great)

-> We are here: meaningless wars happen because the conflict RP-ers have been bored for about a year, and the RP behind the conflict is OOCly crafted (really not cool)

 

Where we need to go:
-SoL is at it's highest rates ever seen before. However, SoL only has fun with about 1/2 the playerbase. The other 1/2 is currently disenfranchised. SoL RP needs to be done in conjunction with real wars, with real consequences that can be felt in such RP. I'm not kidding, @Xarklyand his absolutely amazing Scyfling eventline has done more tangible roleplay damage to one nation than all the other wars since the Wo2E combined. A nation crafted their own war because no other wars could be done. And it was better than all the actual wars we've had since. 
We need raiders barging into capitals, disrupting SoL RP, camping roads, because even if people don't like it, it gives them something to RP about with their city guard, something to have fun with. And I'd say with a passion, that >5% of the server population these days are strictly goons. That's because all of our rules have drawn away the goons. That's great, very great- but the problem comes when these goons are gone. I'm not content with "Oh, let's sit around, do sign language, and drink tea" all day RP, I want to go fight the bandits who are raiding my capital remorselessly for the past 3 days, I want to set up patrols, roadblocks. I want to experience true, RP-oriented and crafted conflict for the first time.

 

It would be rude for me to not attach solutions to these problems, so here are my solutions:

-Set universal raid cooldowns to 3 hours day, and each individual cooldown 1 day is for each party (vassals which have an active activity tracker are included, otherwise all vassals are considered under their liege.)  Example: In a 5v3 coalition war, each of the 5 nations can have a crack at each of the capitals of each of the three nations each day every 3 hours, and vice versa. The current raid rules are fine- but we either need to lower cooldowns, or raise the amount of people who can raid. Raids are meaningless, you can't accomplish anything, except maybe get gate locked out of the nation for 30 minutes, camp their gates, and say "Okay, goodbye now!" and leave. Counter claim- But Lick, this would be such a major disruption of RP, this isn't a good idea! Solution: The disruption of RP will be through RP itself. No war will usually have 8 belligerents on either side- hell, we've about 12ish nations in total. But these disruptions are reflective of a real war. Maybe, because a nation is raided so much, they'll increase their guard force, conscript new soldiers, and fight the raiders with more gusto. Or maybe the people will vote in an anti-war parliament- or stage a coup to get their nation out of the war. RP wars must have RP consequences, and right now we have OOC wars with zero consequences. These OOC wars spur OOC toxicity and have ZERO RP effect on the server.

 

-Allow raiders ladders or battering rams to break through gates/scale walls.

Since we already make the raiders file a modreq before raiding (which is a very good thing) why not have the mods be able to place ladders/battering rams at the cost of mina, and then delete gate blocks/scale a wall? This circumvents the timeless Oren™ strategy of closing your gates. Sorry raiders, but our gates are indestructable! I cannot think of any reasonable person who would disagree with this, so I will not provide a counterclaim.

-Allow the conquest of capital tiles.

Time for me to die on the LickspittleHill™

The merciless, barbaric act of total capital conquest kills a playerbase. Fact.

Total capital conquest will result in larger nations steamrolling smaller nations. Not a fact.

Total capital conquest will negatively affect RP of those negatively affected by it. Not a fact.

Players leave the server after their capital, playerbase, and clique is taken from them. Not a fact.

 

Let me explain how total capital conquest is positive for the server, and why we've only seen complaints about the content of the server since war has been snubbed. I think something that us as a playerbase can all agree upon, is that cliques have become a part of LOTC way much more than it used to be. Back in the day, it used to be CMU, goons, and that's it. Now, every nation and their mother has multiple cliques, and then cliques within those cliques. Because we haven't had a war with consequences, to thrust these cliques out of power, these cliques never change the people within, which leads to lower player retention (one of my studies as a CT member) as these players quit the server as they aren't able to make friends. Nations need to rise and fall within months like they used to. When a capital tile falls- a build falls. That part is tangible, and a downside. But the ruins make for a great, future build, to rise like a phoenix from the ashes. When a capital tile falls, however, it's playerbase scatters. When they scatter, they do Refugee RP, which is great RP supply for about a month. They meet new people, they form new groups of friends, and this endless cycle of cliques is finally broken. Then, they begin to join institutions of their new nation- government, military, whatever. And they have a vengeance against their old nation. They, alongside their old friends, convince their new nations to coalition this destoyer. This is positive, healthy, RP. Even though a side is negatively affected, it doesn't mean they quit, it means they stay engaged, and a story on our server is formed. There is no story without a conflict. And LOTC is one, cooperative, story.

Of course, that short, summarized story above cannot happen under these war rules. They cannot happen with the state of conflict on LOTC.

TL:DR: Fix the server's conflict, you get better player retention, more players joining, some clique-busting, new friendships forming, a less OOCly toxic war atmosphere, and a better, cooperative SoL x Conflict RP server.

My DMs are open to all who wish to chat about any of the topics above, or about player retention: Lickspittle#5373 

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45 minutes ago, Lickspittle said:

Let me explain how total capital conquest is positive for the server, and why we've only seen complaints about the content of the server since war has been snubbed. I think something that us as a playerbase can all agree upon, is that cliques have become a part of LOTC way much more than it used to be. Back in the day, it used to be CMU, goons, and that's it. Now, every nation and their mother has multiple cliques, and then cliques within those cliques. Because we haven't had a war with consequences, to thrust these cliques out of power, these cliques never change the people within, which leads to lower player retention (one of my studies as a CT member) as these players quit the server as they aren't able to make friends. Nations need to rise and fall within months like they used to. When a capital tile falls- a build falls. That part is tangible, and a downside. But the ruins make for a great, future build, to rise like a phoenix from the ashes. When a capital tile falls, however, it's playerbase scatters. When they scatter, they do Refugee RP, which is great RP supply for about a month. They meet new people, they form new groups of friends, and this endless cycle of cliques is finally broken. Then, they begin to join institutions of their new nation- government, military, whatever. And they have a vengeance against their old nation. They, alongside their old friends, convince their new nations to coalition this destoyer. This is positive, healthy, RP. Even though a side is negatively affected, it doesn't mean they quit, it means they stay engaged, and a story on our server is formed. There is no story without a conflict. And LOTC is one, cooperative, story.

you could literally ignore the entirety of the rest of this thread, and just read this, and know all you need to know

 

in brief:

1,000 year national cliques are shit for the server

nations dying does not affect activity long-time

change is interesting and good for the server

 

only people who never play but still, on rare occasion, feel possessed to ruin everything (i think you know who i mean!!!) could disagree with me here

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18 hours ago, Crevel said:

 

I really hope this is sarcasm. You're an ISA officer and you should know that low-effort copy paste halting emotes are against the rules.

copy-paste emotes are allowed for the sole reason that there's zero other method of making high quality emotes in the time a player MCly sprints by, you just have to type a different emote every time you halt someone

pretty sure this has been allowed for a few maps now, unless mods are being indecisive about what is and isn't allowed since myself and friends have never gotten in trouble for this

if it turns out i'm wrong then ill make another forum post to redeem myself 👍

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I think nations and dynasties coming to an end does drive up the amount of meaningful change of power. The thing is stagnation naturally occurs amongst playerbases and throughout them. The mechanics should reflect roleplay taken to disrupt stagnation, which in turn benefits activity and player retention. Lickspittle and Madone both bring up absolutely fantastic points of which I'm in almost total agreement. It is extremely disheartening to be absolutely unable to do very little of substance as far as conflict is valued. This is precisely the sort of stuff that drives players off the server, is the inability to propagate meaningful change. 

 

TLDR: Any system that allows for dynamic change has the highest chances of people getting invested and engaged. End systems that benefit from absolute clique control which stifle rp. 

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i like rep too!

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8 hours ago, Peralien said:

In wars now you get a free participation medal for doing nothing and I hate it.

 

boomer moment

 

More seriously though, can we please stop sneering at so-called "slice-of-life" players.  I get it, I get sick of people's twee affects sometimes too, but all this complaining about bad war has built up this bizarre strawman of tea-partying, child-roleplaying, will-never-raise-one's voice characters (and players!). 

 

People like this probably exist somewhere, but that's not what matters:  it's rude to go around denigrating people because they aren't interested in fighting in the war du jour for whatever reason, and the idea that these people (if they exist as described) are the reason there's a "lack of consequences" is, I think, a real obfuscation of who holds power in nations and in the server administration.

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I completely agree that wars need more consequences- rules are important, true, but the state of warfare right now makes it completely inconsequential-  back when I was a soldier in Kaedrin, the few wars that came up were extremely exciting. Most militaries in nations no longer serve as an army, but rather a police force who occasionally gets dragged to a separately-instanced warzone for a quick skirmish. Military roleplayers can only take so many trainings before they start getting bored of them and want a bit of real conflict.

 

You no longer see soldiers in nations taking risks in an attempt to gain renown, or lower-ranking officers leading smaller battles or raids. You can no longer effectively roleplay the effects of a war, or any other parts of it that aren't real battles with these new rules. Espionage, more personalized missions into enemy territories, more factions than just one side vs the other spawned from the chaos that war creates, an actual war-shaped culture in even everyday roleplay- it's all missing, and there needs to be some compromise made in the rules for these events to be able to take place once more.

 

And I say this being a heavily slice-of-life roleplayer who formerly led Talon's Port, one of the most SOL-based nations there is- having consequences of war doesn't make SOL roleplayers angry, it just gives them more to roleplay about. Talking about wars, doing background in-roleplay war preperation, and the large political changes that a war could bring as it ended would constantly provide new roleplay while still maintaining a wartime culture.

 

I agree, constant raids with no discernible purpose or being OOCly influenced were, and still are, annoying, but I still believe there need to be more impactful conflicts.

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On 12/20/2021 at 3:09 AM, MadOne said:

Nowadays, you see these dominant PVP groups determine outcomes of wars before they begin through OOCly pming your good friend @Mickaelhzor @Masourior whatever and paying them 30000 mina to get an edge over PVP, but you are removing the freedom of these groups (who will always exist) and forcing them to participate in wars that they aren't really interested or have a stake in just for the sake of conflict, and sometimes helping out their friends or safekeeping their legacies.

First of all you are pinging someone who has hard quit the server. Second of all:

Your entire points here are near moot by the fact that most communities are unwilling to perform road banditry or just in general raid. If not for the Ferrymen or as you say it "pming your good friend" there would have been no raids or banditry this war. Dont go schizo on the ferrymen for actually putting a war time pressure on oren, or the entire community of guys/gals in the ferrymen who banded of their own free will to make an impactful mercenary group. If you want to have a go at people for actually losing this feeling to war then have a strong go at the nation leaders and their tactics of dealing with it. If I go out with another person i will get nothing but a pretty trashy crp encounter of people trying to powergame even though they are on horse being hit from two directions and they stall with such so that 10 other people can roll up. Theres no mutual respect so when "my good friends" roll up and force an edge over pvp/perform tactics to gain PVP then its really not their fault, its a genuine lack of respect or willingness to accept defeat,

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On 12/20/2021 at 6:14 PM, argonian said:

you could literally ignore the entirety of the rest of this thread, and just read this, and know all you need to know

 

in brief:

1,000 year national cliques are shit for the server

nations dying does not affect activity long-time

change is interesting and good for the server

 

only people who never play but still, on rare occasion, feel possessed to ruin everything (i think you know who i mean!!!) could disagree with me here

@ me next time bro wtf!

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1 minute ago, Narthok said:

@ me next time bro wtf!

clearly meant telanir 

 

since when u been anti-war

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9 minutes ago, argonian said:

clearly meant telanir 

 

since when u been anti-war

i hate war its coarse and gets everywhere

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