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On Excommunication


High_On_Math
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On Excommunication

By Luthriel

Note:  The following arguments rest on the premise that Godan is just.  This belief is taken by faith.  To prove that Godan is just would take much time and would prove to be a distracting tangent.  Since most Cannonists already believe this fact, I assume it to be true and base my arguments off this.

  •   Excommunication: Defined as the process by which the Cannonist Church declares that someone is no longer allowed to visit a church.
  •   As only the scrolls are Godan’s word, I only accept the scrolls as textual support for an argument.  I concede that at best the Texts are accurate implications of the Scrolls.  However, since the Texts are laws created based off of the Scrolls, they are secondary in nature.  The Texts are

                #1 written by fallible humans

                #2 propositions based off of the Scrolls, not propositions in their own right.

          Since ideally the Texts are based off of the already written Scrolls, the texts should not be necessary for defense of an argument.

  •  The Pontiff does have spiritual authority.  This spiritual authority entails a position of teaching and spiritual leadership like that of a father with his children.  The pontiff’s responsibilities are to instruct the Church in the truth and to resolve conflict within the Church.  The Church’s responsibilities are to listen to and to respect the Pontiff, and to submit to his words like children submit to their parents.

 

 Excommunication, a mere declaration of humans, is incapable of severing a repentant and Godan-fearing soul from Godan's unstoppable mercy.

 

     1.      Excommunication is a process by which the Cannonist Church declares that someone is no longer allowed to visit a church.

     2.      The Cannonist Church is not infallible.

     3.      If the Cannonist Church can make mistakes or lie in declarations, then it is possible for excommunication to be declared on someone who is innocent.

     4.      Godan would not want someone who is innocent to be cut off from the Church.

     5.      If it is possible for excommunication to be declared on someone who is innocent, it is possible for the Cannonist Church to excommunicate someone against Godan’s will.

     6.      If it is possible for excommunication of an individual to be against Godan’s will, then excommunication is not necessarily Godan’s will.

     7.      If excommunication is not necessarily Godan’s will, then it has no impact on whether an individual is shown mercy by Godan.

Note: By the previous definition stated above, excommunication strictly refers to the declaration of the Cannonist Church.  It is shown that the statements, “excommunication is Godan’s will” or “excommunication reflects Godan’s will” is not necessarily true or false if the Cannonist Church declares an excommunication.

 

 

 

Objection 1: The pontiff is the supreme authority.  Therefore if he excommunicates someone, his excommunication has spiritual authority and therefore is valid.

               Analogy:

     1.      The Scrolls state that kings have a divine right to rule and are given authority by Godan.

     2.      Kings can make mistakes.

     3.      Kings can punish innocent people.

     4.      If kings have the authority to rule, given by Godan, and kings can punish innocent people, then:

     5.      King’s punishment of innocent people has authority

     6.      If the punishment has authority then the punishment is valid.

     7.      If the punishment is valid, then Godan respects the punishment.

 

     1.      The Scrolls state that pontiffs are given authority by Godan.

     2.      Pontiffs can make mistakes.

     3.      Pontiffs can declare innocent people excommunicated.

     4.      If pontiffs have authority, given by Godan, and pontiffs can excommunicate innocent people, then:

     5.      The pontiff’s excommunication of innocent people has authority.

     6.      If the excommunication has authority, then the excommunication is valid.

     7.      If the excommunication is valid, then Godan respects the excommunication, in this case by allowing negative spiritual consequences in the afterlife.

Rebuttal:

     Premise 5 is not correct.  The pontiff has authority to teach and to resolve conflict within the Church.  The authority of the pontiff does not mean that everything he does, including his mistakes, has authority in  Godan’s eyes.  By giving the pontiff authority, Godan has given the pontiff the responsibilities to teach and resolve conflict and has given the Church the responsibility to listen to and respect the pontiff.  It does not follow from this that Godan shall follow the pontiff’s authority in excommunication and allow innocent people’s afterlife to be harmed from the pontiff’s mistake.

 

 

 

Objection 2: Excommunication, whether an innocent or guilty person is excommunicated, has spiritual consequences because it prevents someone from going to church and receiving penance.

               Grant, for the sake of argument, that a declaration of excommunication itself does not have spiritual consequences:

     1.      There are two possible scenarios: an innocent person is excommunicated and a guilty person is excommunicated.

     2.      A guilty person was barred from the skies before the excommunication.

     3.      The excommunication, a statement that the guilty person will not be going to the skies and that they shall be removed from the church, coincides with the person’s actual afterlife.

     4.      An innocent person excommunicated is physically barred from going to church

     5.      Going to church is necessary for going to the seven skies because it is the Church that gives the sacraments.

     6.      If going to church is necessary for going to the seven skies, then an innocent person who has been declared excommunicated by the pontiff will not go to the seven skies.

     7.      The excommunication, a statement that the innocent person will not be going to the skies and that they shall be removed from the church, coincides with the person’s actual afterlife.

     8.      In both possible cases, the excommunication corresponds with the person’s actual afterlife.

     9.      If all possible excommunications correspond with the excommunicated person’s actual afterlife, then all possible excommunications are true.

     10.   If all possible excommunications are true, then it is irrelevant that excommunications only reflect or indirectly cause a spiritual outcome in the afterlife.  Excommunications may still, for all practical intents and purposes, be seen as having direct spiritual outcomes.

Rebuttal:

     1.      Godan is just.

     2.      An innocent person excommunicated is physically barred from going to Church.

     3.      Going to church is necessary for going to a better afterlife because it is the Church that gives the sacraments.

     4.      If going to church is necessary for going to a better afterlife, then an innocent person who has been declared excommunicated by the pontiff will not go to a better afterlife.

     5.      If Godan is just, and Godan allows an innocent person who has been declared excommunicated by the pontiff to not go to a better afterlife:

     6.     Then it is just for Godan to allow an innocent person who has been declared excommunicated by the pontiff for a sin they did not commit to be barred from a better afterlife, which is absurd. 

     By reductio ad absurdum, we see that Godan cannot be both just and the Church being necessary for going to a better afterlife.

     I choose to believe that Godan is just, and as a result, The Church is not necessary for going to a better afterlife. 

     If the Church is not necessary for going to a better afterlife, then premise five of the original objection is not true. 

     If premise five of the original objection is not true, then the excommunication, a statement that the innocent person will not be going to the seven skies and that they shall be removed from the church, does not correspond to the innocent person’s actual afterlife.

     If the excommunication does not correspond to the innocent person’s actual afterlife, then excommunications do not have causal power.  At best, they only reflect the person’s place in the afterlife, and at worst      they do not reflect it at all.

     If excommunications do not always correspond to the excommunicated person’s place in the afterlife, then they do not have direct spiritual outcomes, but rather reflect a fallible Church’s best interpretation            of what has already happened.

 Counter Rebuttal:

     1.      Godan created us.

     2.      If Godan created us, we belong to Him.

     3.      If we belong to Godan, then He has the right to do whatever he wants with us, and it is still just.

     4.      It is just for Godan to allow an innocent person who has been declared excommunicated by the pontiff for a sin they did not commit to be barred from a better afterlife.

Rebuttal to the counter rebuttal:

     There are three possible ways for morality to have originated:

     1.      What is right and what is wrong is defined by what Godan created us for.  Godan can decide anything is right and anything is wrong because it is Godan who creates the world as well as morality.

     2.      What is right and what is wrong exists outside of Godan, and Godan must follow the rules of morality as a perfect being.  We too, ought to follow these rules, but as imperfect beings we do not follow them               perfectly.

      3.      What is right and what is wrong stems from Godan’s character.  Godan is loving, good, merciful, and just.  As creatures made in his image, we originally were made to be good as well. However, we were given free will and the ability to choose if we want to allow our actions to reflect Godan’s image.  When we break the laws of morality, we are not just breaking arbitrary rules that Godan imposed on us.  We are rejecting that Godan’s loving, just, and merciful character is supreme and rejecting our being made in his image, instead choosing arbitrary rules for ourselves to follow  that we create on a whim.

 

The counter rebuttal holds fast if you believe in the first explanation of morality.  However, the first definition is incompatible with the statement “Godan is just”.  Instead, the first statement implies  that “Godan created the concept of justice” and that he could easily have made it a moral imperative for us to be unjust.  Because I choose to believe that Godan is just over that Godan created the concept of justice, I reject the first explanation of morality, and therefore I reject the counter rebuttal’s conclusion.

 

 

 

In conclusion:

If someone is innocent, then no matter what the Pontiff declares, they are not harmed spiritually, as the spiritual power does not come from the Pontiff’s declaration, but from Godan.  This is not to say that the Pontiff has no authority, but that his authority does not involve the sentencing of souls in the afterlife.  The Pontiff is given authority to instruct and to arbitrate, and this should be respected, but he is not given authority to override justice.

Excommunications defined as a document given by the Pontiff carry no spiritual significance.  Excommunications as defined as Godan’s barring an individual from the seven skies carry  all spiritual significance.

On the practical level, a church ought to be a safe community, and it will often be the case that dangerous people need to be kept out of the church.  The process by which the Church excommunicates individuals has many safeguards, therefore it is unlikely that an excommunication is incorrectly made, and we should abide by an excommunication by preventing excommunicated individuals from attending church.  However, upon evidence demonstrating an individual innocent of their supposed sin, the excommunication ought to be called into question. 

This is analogous to our abiding by the punishment given to an individual in a court of law.  It is possible for a court of law to make mistakes but do to the higher probability of a correct conviction than an incorrect conviction, to get the maximally beneficial results for society we ought to abide by all convictions from a court of law unless those convictions are demonstrated to be incorrect.

The world is imperfect and all we can do is strive to produce the maximally beneficial results.  Godan allows this imperfection to create trials for us.  As we experience trials, we become stronger.  And in the skies, there are no longer any trials.  So, a moment of unfairness for an innocent individual being blocked from the church is turned by Godan into a trial that brings the innocent person closer to Godan.  The blocking of a guilty and unrepentant person from the Church keeps the Church safe and is perfectly just and fair.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by High_On_Math
edited spaces so its a lil easier on the eyes
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Erhardius Barklei scratches his head.

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"It's Canonist and not Cannonist" Tylos II complained before sending a copy of the writ off to his Secretariat to have a look at.

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Edmund prepares his cannon as he hears of the new Cannonist religion.

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"Format it better or you want people to read it." remarked Walton.

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Luthie had the missive reprinted with different spaces so it would be a lil easier to read.

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