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Admin Decision re Haelun'or


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18 hours ago, 1_Language_1 said:

if it doesn't then this entire thing might happen again, dont want to see that



These people weren't involved with Haelun'or towards the end of Iverach's leadership (In summer), and this conflict began when I became NL. On day one of me being NL, we had 0.5% activity, and dropping. By the time I had to step down due to OOC stuff, we were on 7.5% and climbing. This was done in a relatively short time period.

"Reviving Haelun'or" doesn't make sense as a pretense for this conflict, given that they weren't involved with Haelun'or, at least not twi, and that Hnor was the most active Elf Nations, and one of the most active Nations on the server. Kiwi and co were involved and got more involved midway through my stint as NL, but Twi's only interactions with Haelun'or was based in conflict.

This was an OOC conflict aimed at destroying the Nation and Community, which Kiwi stated herself.

Edited by Gavin_
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6 hours ago, Gavin_ said:



These people weren't involved with Haelun'or towards the end of Iverach's leadership (In summer), and this conflict began when I became NL. On day one of me being NL, we had 0.5% activity, and dropping. By the time I had to step down due to OOC stuff, we were on 7.5% and climbing. This was done in a relatively short time period.

"Reviving Haelun'or" doesn't make sense as a pretense for this conflict, given that they weren't involved with Haelun'or, at least not twi, and that Hnor was the most active Elf Nations, and one of the most active Nations on the server. Kiwi and co were involved and got more involved midway through my stint as NL, but Twi's only interactions with Haelun'or was based in conflict.

This was an OOC conflict aimed at destroying the Nation and Community, which Kiwi stated herself.

Everything has some tinge of OOC to it. She still did all of the RP, had motive IRP, etc. 

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9 minutes ago, rukio said:

Everything has some tinge of OOC to it. She still did all of the RP, had motive IRP, etc. 


Absolutely, every RP action has some level of OOC to it. The difference is, the entirety of the RP was motivated by OOCly wanting to destroy a community because she didn't like that community. That's the difference.

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1 minute ago, Gavin_ said:


Absolutely, every RP action has some level of OOC to it. The difference is, the entirety of the RP was motivated by OOCly wanting to destroy a community because she didn't like that community. That's the difference.

I think you're inherently wrong about her wanting to destroy a community. She wanted certain aspects of a community to go away, sure, but she also didn't want to see Hnor die. But, this will be my last response. I have found you to be incredibly hateful and toxic with a weird obsession with Kiwi after being told multiple times to leave her alone. I wish you the best of luck, however, in whatever it is you're attempting to achieve on this post.

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6 hours ago, Gavin_ said:

Absolutely, every RP action has some level of OOC to it. The difference is, the entirety of the RP was motivated by OOCly wanting to destroy a community because she didn't like that community. That's the difference.

Along with everything else you've stated, I've seen how you've acted behind closed doors, you give Kiwi shit for being a OOC plotter, yet I've seen DMs of you whining OOCly because you weren't getting what you wanted IRPly. We IRPly tried to adapt our ideas to better suit what you and the old player base wanted, however, you kicked a good chunk of the newly founded Celia'nor community out and basically tried labeling us all trolls who only wanted to destroy Haelun'or and basically try and misinform older players who only became active because you were telling them over Discord that Haelun'or was under threat. You actively took OOC steps in order to prevent an IRP take over. You tried to say you saved Haelun'or but you actively ignored the Ivarielle conflict and tried to hide behind rules that frankly didn't exist, I don't see how you saved it if you left it entirely vulnerable to being attacked by a threat that you tried to pass off as a 'bandit princess'. Not to mention you keep saying OOCly that this entire conflict is OOCly driven all because of one individual, Kiwi, you try also claiming it is also a Fennic plot, in an attempt to try box everyone into a singular group so you can justify not having to actually argue facts. I was one of the players involved at the end of Iverach's NL rule of Hnor, my main goal was to assist Haelun'or so my character could do w/e she felt fit and be protected, in something in a symbiote like relationship. 

I ended up leaving when I realized that Hnor was not going to survive under Iverach's helm as by pure inactivity and lack of caring of the active player base was the Nation suffering, thinking he was going to bring back all the old players for a new golden age of Haelun'or or something. I realized as a 'newer' player to the Hnor community and having zero connection to this older community I was going to have zero place in his idea so I left for Fenn to see what RP I could find, I encountered Ivarielle who had plans for Haelun'or before you even became NL. Unfortunately, given how the Haelun'or conflict unfolded, we correctly assumed that no one in Haelun'or was going to OOCly give up the city when you had become NL, which is why it started off hostile, I should also note you keep saying she had no involvement in Hnor but iirc she was involved during Caelria's era of Hnor. At no point, was my OOC intention to destroy Haelun'or's community, the way I saw it is given my character's development, she felt scorned, she tried offering your character advice, telling you to forgive Orinmon for example because she felt you would need fighters to defend Haelun'or, though you ignored her, and you also during a public meeting she attended called every Nation a snake. She thinks that Braxus is so stupid that it is dangerous for him to be left alive and in control of Haelun'or, given how a lot of the races are reflected by their Nation, if the High Elven Nation ends up getting hated for poor choice of words or is seen as week, it reflects on her, even if she wasn't going to be in Haelun'or. 

 

I had made a an IRP attempt to spy on Haelun'or to feed information to Ivarielle, but I ended up giving up as one day, me and many other supporters of Ivarielle were suddenly removed from the citizen doors and region from Haelun'or, and all I know from the situation was that the Discord that we were using at the time had the member list leaked, there was no IRP discovery at that time who and who wasn't loyal to Haelun'or or Ivarielle, just straight up metagaming. It is instances like these that I say encourage the very behavior you try and condemn of OOC plotting, as I mentioned in another post, there is no way to fight OOC interference IRPly, if you meta game me being a spy there is nothing I can do IRPly because you had gone out of your way to discover through OOC means IRP information and as I result I frankly do not trust you to act accordingly to RP. I also don't see your point regarding people not being involved with Haelun'or, this is basically a made up metric you came up with to determine if people are legitimate or not, as I said before to box people so you don't have to properly address the situation, if 'outsider' High Elves rallied behind Ivarielle/anyone else, it doesn't matter if they were in the past involved with Hnor or not, given that in a realistic situation, your character would had been executed along with many others when we first stormed Hnor in a warclaim and we likely could have held the city because you decided to not prepare for the conflict. 

Kiwi frankly wanted to remove some of the more nastier elements of the Haelun'or community, which you can not deny exist, yourself have essentially bullied Kiwi, trying to accuse her of being a cause of factionalism that was a threat to Hnor, yet you have the gall to go around DMing her friends to tell them not to be her minions and how you were going to wait until her and those associated to do something 'realllllly fucked' for great screenshot material so you could coup, and cementing that #girlboss was something that was happening IRP. I also don't see how Kiwi is relevant to the entire conflict being OOCly motivated, as she joined later on, I also don't see how in some regards the new Celia'nor group wanted to destroy the Hnor community, as you admitted yourself, Hnor was at 0.5% and dropping, when Ivarielle started her movement which would had been around this time, there frankly wasn't a community to destroy, only an inactive Nation, I just feel this is merely an attempt as I said, to box people into certain categories so you don't have to actually defend your position and to misinform people who weren't involved in the situation that had been going on for months and was relatively unknown up until Kiwi made her post and Haelun'or was stormed for control.  

Myself and many others haven't had great interactions with the Hnor playerbase, yourself have constantly engaged with Kiwi when she told you to stop, yet you kept going and start shit talking her in DMs, literally disgusting behavior you've accused her of, you're no better. I brought you a screenshot of one of your community members calling me mentally ill for zero reason and you've done nothing about it, I've IRPly come to you about a certain group/individual telling my character various times telling my female persona shouldn't wear clothing/pants as she shouldn't be ashamed to hide her form or something along those lines, you character refused to do anything IRP which I can understand, you needed their support, but I am unsure if any OOC action was taken regarding this behavior, as you opted to ignore my complaints in the past, you may clarify with me (or over this forum post) if any action was taken, but I can't tell given I was banned from the Hnor Discord.

 

There is frankly so much to unpack with you and some members of the Hnor community it isn't funny and frankly it is tiring seeing you constantly try slander a new community and punish those who went against Haelun'or.  I will agree with Rukio, and given my own experiences with you and Hnor, with what I've seen you say and do behind close doors, you are incredibly hateful, petty, and extremely toxic, you and others have a weird obsession with Kiwi being some evil master mind and saying some of the most bizarre things I could ever hear on LotC regarding a single individual, it is akin to the fringe political conspiracy theories about political figures, it is extremely unhealthy for this kind of thinking to take place over a Minecraft Roleplay server and only serves to generate more toxicity in the long run and further divide the player bases. It feels like your entire position and what you want the Hnor community to focus around is based hating on Kiwi at this point which is just dumb given you've already removed her from your community and she has moved on from Hnor along with many others. You couldn't do anything IRP about Ivarielle/Kiiwi/Celia'nor so I feel you've resorted to OOC means to destroy the Celia'nor Community. 

I will be refraining from any interaction if I can help it with you and Haelun'or as it stands, this entire conflict has been incredibly draining due to the amount of OOC that had been introduced by yourself in an attempt to OOCly protect Haelun'or from IRP consequence, be it from Iverach or prior leadership, or your own actions. I'd say good luck in what you do, but frankly I hope you step on a Lego with bare feet with how horrid you've been acting.

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8 minutes ago, Venomous_Pup said:

-snip-

Screen_Shot_2020-07-24_at_11.33.38_AM.jp

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Literally this conflict ended months ago, giving you EXACTLY what you wanted on an OOCly complaint basis, got your playerbase free of the players you didn't want, got to do everything you want with your settlement and 'prove' you're the master of Haelun'or. Despite this, all that is done is complain that its still not enough, that despite being handed a situation that was completely unfair to a whole playerbase majority; and being granted something so spoiled, near a month later theres STILL complaints that its not enough. 

When is it ever going to be enough? Because am I going to have to come back here a month later, and see three more pages of just complaints about not getting more? 

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10 hours ago, Gavin_ said:

Absolutely, every RP action has some level of OOC to it. The difference is, the entirety of the RP was motivated by OOCly wanting to destroy a community because she didn't like that community. That's the difference.

 

As an outsider who isnt part of that conflict it is really hard to see if you just shitpost or are just beyond pathetic.

I hope its the first and not the latter

 

Also thread should probably be locked now

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Poggers. Absolutely Poggers, man. I love LOTC.

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Let me explain something really quickly to you both, as you seem to be on this moral high horse @Venomous_Pup, @Havsbris_

This conflict was a nasty one, OOC'ly speaking. People on both sides of this conflict were nasty, so let's drop the dumb pretense that it's Haelun'or and solely Haelun'or who is bad here. If I truly am this evil, hateful, toxic person, then why haven't I been banned? Why, in my 10 year + history on this server, have I not been banned for anything related to these things? Have I suddenly, in these past few months become this totally different kind of person? Where is your proof of this? The reality is, you have none. There's a reason why Kiwi is banned and I'm not. Furthermore, I'm not the one who reported her. I've been called a sexist, a misogynist, a pedophile, a racist, et cetera, by your best buddy. You've all seen the shit that has been said about me in your various group chats. So let's drop the victim complex okay?

Secondly, to touch on your point Venom, to say that I have bullied Kiwi is the whackest shit I've ever heard. Kiwi is a serial bully. It isn't even funny how many people she has harassed on this server, across multiple communities. It's funny though, Kiwi was blacklisted from Haelun'or until I became NL. I let kiwi back in to Haelun'or.

Regarding your settlement, I couldn't care less about Celia'nor and what your community does. I in fact, advocated for you guys getting your settlement when Twi and I were speaking with admins at the end of this conflict. At the start of this conflict, I raised the question of why you guys weren't just doing your own thing and building up your own settlement. I don't care what you guys do. It's none of my business.

Regarding your comments, Havsbris; Idk what you mean by 'master' of Haelun'or. I came back to Lotc in the summertime. I've never once held a position within Haelun'or prior to this. I'm not motivated by power, I never have been. I wanted to help Haelun'or out, as one of the old players who actually understands the culture and what makes Haelun'or successful. And guess what? When I became NL, Haelun'or not only recovered, but was doing extremely well. I'm not complaining about anything at the moment, but I will complain when I feel that things are fucked up. For example, and I don't know why you guys act as if this never happened, but Kiwi literally put up an OOC section on a forum post declaring how she was doing this to **** over this nasty, racist, evil community. This literally happened, yet we're still playing dumb here as if this was all an RP conflict. 

Haelun'or won this conflict because of one thing, and one thing alone. When it came down to actual Haelunorians RP'ing, it was us who had a clear majority. The vast majority of your numbers, came from Fenn. This is why you lost. You didn't have the support of the Haelunorian playerbase and you never made any attempts to win over their support. Instead, you resorted to conflict and rallying people to destroy us, which actually bolstered the support for actual Haelunorians such as myself.

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This has devolved into arguments, I see no more purpose in keeping this open any longer. A reminder to act civil while on the forums. 

 

Thread locked.

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