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[✓] [Feat + Magic Lore] Seers - Cozeners of Vaasek


Zarsies
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5 hours ago, Zarsies said:

Lyes’ horror came suddenly and crescendoed into an unheard scream at the atrocity forced upon her by the witnesses. Unseen, unfelt, and unheard as they are, they ambushed her amidst her garden of dreams and ensnared and gagged her with their many arms.

From the Lyes lore I surmise that if she has a moment to think she can use the entire Nebula against foes. Why didn't she? I understand this is a sneaky mission of stealth and speed, but even if they got the drop on her why couldn't she resist?

 

5 hours ago, Zarsies said:

Bound and helpless, Lyes became the first to behold the screaming cliffs of Pax as the witnesses tethered her together into a bubble of Vaasek’s making after her Nebula, a black mirror prison of arms and eyes entrenched in divine silence as to bury her in his home.

The lore of Lyes makes a big deal of her being unable to escape nor does it specify what would happen if she did because it would have undefined consequences. Vaasek isn't the Daemon of Dreams, while I can imagine he can lock her up within her own realm, I don't see how he could mimic a sub-plane bubble within his own realm. Wouldn't the Nebula break apart? 

 

Even if he could ambush and trap Lyes, how is he able to do it via some coma-like Dream? I'm unfamiliar with how Dragur dreams, but I don't see why this has ever been Vaasek's domain. Perhaps Vaasek can induce sleep, but how can he trump Lyes at her own domain of existence?

 

As far as I'm aware Lyes has no physical body to be bound. The original lore is vague, I admit, but it just raises questions.

 

5 hours ago, Zarsies said:

For his sin Vaasek operates the Nebula and holds dominion over dreams in addition to his aspects of fear and lies and through them grants his unwitting agents great illusions and the tools to delude mortalkind. Protective lies. Poisonous lies. Lies to bind, lies to distract, lies to instigate, lies to vitiate.

So Vaasek controls Dreams and gives his agents tools to do so too, much like Lyes and her Patrons? How does Vaasek have time for this? Seems like a full-time job to host dreams. Would nobody notice this change? Do the dreams stay the same?

 

All of this being said, very nice lore. I like how Lyes is implemented into this given it's very dormant lore, even if I don't necessarily agree yet with how she's tied into this. I hope it gets accepted once more, good luck with future writing!

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I liked the read but I have a few questions/concerns
 

6 hours ago, Zarsies said:

Appraise - Non-combative - T2
Using a witness’s penetrating gaze more thoroughly than for simple translations, seers may cast appraise upon objects in order to derive its details and sometimes its past.

Are STs able to give you the full layout of any item, including player-signed? If that's the case for player-signed, Story Team shouldn't be handling whether or not you find out (for example) who an assassin is, only the player in question. Ofc I may have just misread
 

6 hours ago, Zarsies said:

Charade- Combative - T2
With this simple trick seers sell their conspiracies and plots with the vague validation of magic.

The redline in this one is appreciated but a Charade should be explicitly given a size/height limit. Not talking about the AOE either, just the general look of your aesthetic.
 

6 hours ago, Zarsies said:

This aesthetic may be used to disguise any and all magic the bonded seer casts meaning one posing as a Canonist priest may use fire evocation yet reskin it to be thin, golden, and sunny or a sea witch may use water evocation and have it glow with bioluminescent algae and surge with electricity. Because the tell is so freeform it is required the bonded seer be advised by a knowledgeable ST to approve their casting tell which is privately recorded to maintain a proper list. Seers sharing casting aesthetics to blend together and support conspiracies is elaborated on under Ritual of Consecrating. 


The freeform and versatile aspect of this write up for seers is great but it really seems easily abusable by people who know what they're doing. I genuinely think in one way or another some abuse is gonna slip under your nose with this one. I think aesthetics should be given general redlines such as the fact that you can't have them be something super complex, since I can see someone justifying that their aesthetic as a glorified voidal illusion spell, but again I could be wrong.
Versatility is a boon and a curse in lore because you always have to take a risk in whether or not you'll allow it, and the more available the lore the higher the risk IMO.

 

6 hours ago, Zarsies said:

-Visual hallucinations (Seeing imaginary images of varying significance and nature. The seer defines the theme - frightful, strange, confusing, amusing, etc - and the player interprets it.)


This should be in line with the seer's aesthetic rather than just a general thing. 

 

6 hours ago, Zarsies said:

Djinn: a translucent image of their true form.

To give you a suggestion on this as the lore writer of Djinn; the Djinn should choose whether they can choose from a translucent image of their Third Phase, Second Phase, or past incarnations (the mortal form of their past personas) would be neat.

I genuinely don't see the rare opportunity of a djinn and seer coming together for a reading of all things LOL

6 hours ago, Zarsies said:

-Sown items require ST signage. The description of the item does not need the specifics of sowing explained in it, only “[[Contact _____ to interact]]” where the effect is then explained.

Personally don't see the need for the ST sign. Seems like easy auction house bait. You can easily say in the description what it does and that it falls in line with everything in that specific spell of Seers of Vaasek lore. 

6 hours ago, Zarsies said:

Casting this spell alights the seer’s silhouette and whomever they might be touching in their casting aesthetic before being veiled in it and then turn invisible

Don't know if I'm reading this wrong but i think it's weird for them to be able to turn someone else invisible too

6 hours ago, Zarsies said:

Scry

I'm not sure how scrying used to be but my personal experiences with it were just limited to 'Can I metagame you or no? I have a lore approved camera' so it's a really good improvement from what it used to be imo

6 hours ago, Zarsies said:

One 2 slot seer leading with two 1 slot seers may come together in a ritual akin to scrying to divine the physical location of a person or object and bear witness to an invisible path leading directly to it

I'm probably misinterpreting the purpose of this spell but I genuinely can't see this spell being used in good faith even if given OOC consent. That just might be my paranoia though. I'd add a redline saying that if a person is being guarded, you can't try to scry and object on them such as the sword they wield or a hat they wear to try and loophole the guard/kidnapper's right to OOC consent.

6 hours ago, Zarsies said:

Seers may be attuned to a maximum of 2 altars at once.

 

Suggestion: An altar can't be directly near another altar made by the same seer. Would just loophole its POV.

6 hours ago, Zarsies said:

[S] Ritual of Mendacity - Non-combative - T5
Cabals, when intensified by the lens of a plot, may craft miracles and author fate. 

I think this spell is incredibly broken and overpowered. Just because something isn't combative doesn't mean it can't be completely busted. The amount of output necessary to forge an illusion over an entire continent is insane, not to mention the fact that because it's so freeform any group (so long as they are allied to seers) can use this to their advantage. The timing is also important as well, so long as you get ST approval you can basically do whatever you want whenever you want on the map in a grandiose illusion that's the size of a celestial body so long as you complete the aforementioned prerequisite with no semblance of consequence? 

This isn't a spell used to 'craft a miracle', it's a spell that can be abused by cliques to get what they want out of people that have no choice to believe it or else they're metagaming. The prophetic branch of this spell is just as bad. Don't forget that players will always have a choice in this, and if they know OOCly that they aren't obligated to follow this, they won't - it'll give your group's ideals a good mention but it's basically suggestive brainwashing (with again, little to no limitations so long as you have the numbers and approval). The main thing about this spell that bothers me is the fact that unlike most if not all of the abilities in here, due to its confrontational nature you can't actively fight against it. I mean, it's even a redline that a prophecy HAS to perceived as real or you're breaking lore. I cannot see this being used to further RP for the benefit of both parties in any sort of situation whatsoever. 

I'm genuinely not pointing any fingers but speaking as a Story Team member, the fact that this also depends on a single ST's decision regardless if they're Lore Team or Event Team ((from what I'm guessing)) is also insane. You're basically giving any member of the team whether or not they're directly a part of a seer's clique (again, not pointing fingers, just giving a hypothetical) the power to enable this without any sort of limitation. If it were me, I'd flat out remove the existence of this spell. In my genuine opinion it's a far cry from the master class quality of spells and RP opportunities this lore offers.

 

6 hours ago, Zarsies said:

[S] Ritual of Identity - Non-combative- T5
The greatest illusions can fool even their weavers. A masterwork of deception, seer s may adopt new guises at the risk of losing themselves.

Fantastic spell, especially love the emphasis on the possibility of losing yourself to your mask. I'd personally suggest limiting the number of active guises to one, and if a guise is destroyed/cast away it cannot be created again.

 

All in all an amazing post, Zarsies. You're an awesome writer and your creativity (and of course that of everyone else involved) really shines here. Please don't take my gripes personally, I don't mean it to be. Please hit me up if I've made any mistakes in my criticisms, and apologies in advance if I have made a mistake.

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2 hours ago, Xx_BloodStalk_xX said:

snip!

I like the feedback, this helps a lot since we always are trying to make it better but obviously after you stare at your own lore for so long you sort of glaze over things.

1. - Appraise 
In the description it does have a line to differentiate who gives the info when read, that being the player who used it, the player who signed it, and then the ST inside of events only. It also notes on the vision part this lil section "In events, if the ST consent, a seer may receive a brief, 5-10 second vision of the past centered on the object and about its history. " Also you cant use identify to deduce who used it. 
Red Lines:
-Appraise cannot derive exactly where, who by, or when the object was created or enchanted unless given via ST vision.

2. - Charade 
I think in the same vein of how paladin mist manipulation or other freeform uses don't really have a limitation is the way it was designed, however I get why you would want one so I'll throw it into the rewrite chat.

3. - Casting Aesthetic
I think the part you're most worried about won't be an issue given the seers we have, but also the fact that anything complex or perhaps questionable (or like 99% of casting tells) should be talked through an ST before use, which is also quoted in your bit. The freeform aspect of it won't allow us to create anything beyond a tell so creating side illusions or something crazy would be hard, but I can understand what you're saying when you say its risky, however I think the ST approval part of it will eliminate that fact. 

4. - Eyebite Illusionary bit
With this, it generally should line up with the seers abilities due to the fact that we impose our own actual illusions on ourselves everytime we slot, which is where the ability is derived from in some aspects I think. Eyebite especially is just visual effects, although I could be misunderstanding what you mean.

5. - Djinn
tossed this into seer rewrite chat, will be amended. good feedback 100%

6. - sown items
sown items are useless to everyone except seers, anyone else its legit just a detriment and they basically rub off on the carrier and end up making them become sown with a seed, so I don't think selling them will happen but I could be wrong. Ultimately I was thinking that these items would require the ST to sign because the ST wanted something like this to be signed, just purely out of sake for legitimacy 

7. - Invisibility 
I'll put this in the rewrite chat, see what Zars believes in that part since he wrote that

8. - Scry
sweet

9. - Divination
Yeah the purpose of the spell is to rather find your sown victim or find another seer or find a certain person to roleplay with them. Knowledge of where they are is useless unless you act on it I'd think, but we can toss something in there along the lines of requires consent of the captors OR cannot be done at all

10. - Altars
didnt even think of this one, redline added 

11. - Mendacity
I'll let Zar address that one

12. - Identify
Yeah, thats a good point. Pushed it over to the chat.

Thanks for the feedback my friendly fella!

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Zarsies Lore, Zarsies Lore! what could be better? +1 

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3 hours ago, Sri said:

What does this change?

 

nothing, it’s the same abilities and lore from last year

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I like the blind people rewrite, a lot of passion and effort has clearly gone into it. Minor critique that it might be wise to clarify how Ritual of Identity interacts with missing limbs, for seers with missing limbs and guises whose limbs are removed.

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17 minutes ago, WonkManBad said:

 

nothing, it’s the same abilities and lore from last year

yeah copy paste, no difference, same magic written by the same people. it is all the same we just reposted it for rep

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2 hours ago, Olandyr said:

I like the blind people rewrite, a lot of passion and effort has clearly gone into it. Minor critique that it might be wise to clarify how Ritual of Identity interacts with missing limbs, for seers with missing limbs and guises whose limbs are removed.

 

Good point. I’ll bring it up with the others and see what’s up. 

 

Edit: Masking in an identity is similar to a coat of paint. missing limbs will be missing. Nor can you lose limbs with an identity.

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Not to be rude but I liked the old lore better, made it actually easier to understand than this.

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