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fear rp and consequence for the individual


satinkira
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I've spent nearly a year on this server, and rp'd in a lot of events, taverns, battles and the like. I've been particularly engaged with spooky roleplay, and admittedly, my first attempts at playing spooks weren't all that brilliant. (Sorry @_Sheylo_and @MugRootBeerOfficialfor having to deal with terrible villain roleplay.) I would like to think that I have improved in that regard, and now try to rp my villains as having flaws - though there is doubtless room to improve.

 

Something ironic that I've noted is that the spooks often roleplay fear more than six year olds in Oren. Forgive me for being just a teensy bit annoyed about this, but I heard stuff from an ST about a nation not rp'ing fear, while running at this giant spook that represents death. This surprised me - so I investigated the issue further, and found that LITERALLY NO ONE roleplays fear when confronting a spook. Vampire? Pale, wants to eat ya blood, could possibly kill you? pulls out sword, grinning. It's been too long since I've had a good fight. People raiding you! Shadowy look about them, branding and killing your fellow friends, some have weird magic, your home is threatened? gnashes teeth, pulling out duel hammers. you'll pay for hurting my friends! attacks and is instantly beaten to shit.

 

You get the point. When confronted with a vampire, you at least should roleplay being a little spooked. If you've confronted others in the past, leading to a brazen nature, that is fine - BUT GET THAT ACROSS IRPLY, OTHERWISE IT LOOKS LIKE SHIT ROLEPLAY.

And a lot of the 'Ah, a spook? Time to fight' is shit roleplay, unfortunately. 

 

About war. It has no consequence for the individual. Look at Elysium - I visited before a lot, tried to even help out a little with the planning of defence. I wanted to see what the place was like. Then, I visited after - no noticeable difference. People were rp'ing the same, despite seeing their town RANSACKED BY MURDEROUS ORCS. 

See, this is the thing about war - there isn't enough consequence. Even if your nation DOES fall, you can just hop skip jump to another hugbox such as Vienne. You make new friends, and within the week everything is fine again. Sometimes people cool RP trauma that is eventually overcome by the loving nature of your new friends and family. (Though the quality can vary.)

I hope you can see why I'm annoyed, but I'll spell it out anyways. What does war.. actually do to an individual, save the obvious people like government leaders? For the average shmoe, literally nothing happens. You get a cool story of 'I was forced out of my home by WAR, grr evil people bad' and then forget about it.

I don't know how to fix this. My proposition of 'Make people who die in PVP PK' wasn't very well received, and I have no idea how to fix this issue beyond making people PK in wars. I'm sure that other people will have better ideas than me. What do you think should be done to fix this? ( @MugRootBeerOfficialtell me)

 

Spoiler

This post won't be hidden, otherwise Skippey will bully me more. 

 

 

 

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Death to the hugbox, death to the hugbox roleplayer. 

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Unwillingly did a post about fear o believe but I'll sort of sat what I should have back then.

 

1) When people deal with war rp, there are 2 types of people (generally), those who like it and those who don't. Those who do like war rp will properly rp with all of the stuff that comes with war when it matters. Those that don't are generally people who have war rp forced upon them and thus they will try their best to just ignore it. People rp War as they want really, if they care, they care, if not, they they don't. It's hard to properly force someone to rp out fear and trauma in War RP, especially if the worse is "oh no X group is gunna raid and then we get cooldown for a few days." There is no true solution to Fear in War and I don't believe there ever will be one since it would be neigh impossible to enforce.

 

2) Spook RP, Villainy, and Events all deal with the issue or people generally not rping fear. This rp is where true fear rp should be held, I believe, especially if you're some average joe whose never dealt with something like a Vampire before. Though, while victims should generally have fear in their rp in situations like these, so should the bad guys. If I play say a Vampire(Corc specifically), I should sweat my balls off of I ever meet a paladin and I've not drank blood in a bit.

 

3) You can also rp fear and still stand up for yourself. Facing your fears is also cool rp to go through, your heart beating rapidly, your body shaking a bit, sweat dropping down your brow. Fear rp doesn't always have to be debilitating and end in your death, it can be ingrained into your fight for survival.

 

(P.S. it's 4am when I'm writing this so if I said something stupid I blame it on the bloody nose waking me up)

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1 minute ago, MeteorDragon said:

1) When people deal with war rp, there are 2 types of people (generally), those who like it and those who don't. Those who do like war rp will properly rp with all of the stuff that comes with war when it matters. Those that don't are generally people who have war rp forced upon them and thus they will try their best to just ignore it. People rp War as they want really, if they care, they care, if not, they they don't. It's hard to properly force someone to rp out fear and trauma in War RP, especially if the worse is "oh no X group is gunna raid and then we get cooldown for a few days." There is no true solution to Fear in War and I don't believe there ever will be one since it would be neigh impossible to enforce.

 

I don't understand the point about having war forced on you - isn't all organic conflict RP forced on you? If anything, war RP offers a better chance at character development than a vamp stopping you to attack you ever could. People who reject that, imo, are doing it for ooc reasons, and not irp ones.

 

4 minutes ago, MeteorDragon said:

2) Spook RP, Villainy, and Events all deal with the issue or people generally not rping fear. This rp is where true fear rp should be held, I believe, especially if you're some average joe whose never dealt with something like a Vampire before. Though, while victims should generally have fear in their rp in situations like these, so should the bad guys. If I play say a Vampire(Corc specifically), I should sweat my balls off of I ever meet a paladin and I've not drank blood in a bit.

 

This is a good point that I should have brought up - spooks can and should, and do (Though some might say not enough) fear RP. It's interesting to see how self perceived powerful beings deal with obviously unfair fights.

 

7 minutes ago, MeteorDragon said:

3) You can also rp fear and still stand up for yourself. Facing your fears is also cool rp to go through, your heart beating rapidly, your body shaking a bit, sweat dropping down your brow. Fear rp doesn't always have to be debilitating and end in your death, it can be ingrained into your fight for survival.

 

Not at all. If anything, overcoming ones fears irply is some of the best RP out there. My issue was more with the Jon Snow RP'ers who do roleplay where nothing scares them. Ever.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Valannor said:

Death to the hugbox, death to the hugbox roleplayer.

Pitchfork 10s, A Complete List - Rate Your Music

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If they void rp in the safespace of their mind, the rp never happened. This problem will never go away so long as there is no enforced consequence. This is a reason I enjoy CA's with an enforced pk clause upon death. (I'll edit this comment after work with my thoughts.) 

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I get flashbacks sometimes to the time when my city was getting attacked by flying demons and some random woman who walked in asked why we were killing the very obviously hostile bloodthirsty demons flying around trying to throw people into gorges.

 

Theres not much can be done overall to accurately portray fear when as players we naturally get detached from the emotions of our characters. Conflict just isn't for some people, but then again sitting around doing casual rp in the middle of a raid, event, etc. while its ongoing and in emote range of you doesn't show great situational awareness.

 

I dont often see trauma or if I do its usually downplayed (that sort of rp can also be exhausting longterm), and what may take us as people irl several years to cope with if we dont permanently live with is just so negligible from an rp perspective. Got trauma as a kid from seeing a head ripped off? Not really a whole lot people wanting to do therapy rp, plus say 30 years is 30 irl weeks, so that's fast.

 

I do agree its ridiculous when you see the occasional fearless child rp (had a lot of these when I did rp as a guard years back, Dominion started hucking the kids down the stairs and such) 

 

But overall the lack of fear rp and of consequence causes another problem you touched on: endless revitalization of land, cities, cultures, and races (minus the occasional hard shelf).

 

So long as there is an OOC understanding there is always going to be a city to go to, a community of people and new maps to explore, characters can simply go from town to town as they are evicted or lost across several years, never truly role-playing fear, trauma or loss as it is inconvenient or not enforced.

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17 minutes ago, TheWanRing said:

I get flashbacks sometimes to the time when my city was getting attacked by flying demons and some random woman who walked in asked why we were killing the very obviously hostile bloodthirsty demons flying around trying to throw people into gorges.

 

Kneel to the demons bigot

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To have fear rp, you have to act scary.

To be scary you have to find out how to act scary.

The greatest fear is the fear of uncertainty. That is why spooks will never get good fear rp.

 

1 hour ago, satinkira said:

but I heard stuff from an ST about a nation not rp'ing fear, while running at this giant spook that represents death. This surprised me - so I investigated the issue further, and found that LITERALLY NO ONE roleplays fear when confronting a spook. Vampire? Pale, wants to eat ya blood, could possibly kill you?

Thats why its not scary. You lose you die. No uncertainty. Thats why a random bandit group capturing you is more scary than a evil race. You don't know what the bandits will do. There are multiple out comes and you cant influence it directly.

 

Confrontation in itself only has two solution "fight or flight"

 

If the fleeing / surrendering means death, everyone will chose fight. You have a man in your room and you know 100% that he will kill you no matter what. Would you plead for your life or fight him?

 

Why do people give me, someone who only plays everyday Joes (Not villains) fear rp but not spook players?

 

What kind of fear rp do you want from them? Do you want them to cry and piss themselves, because there is an evil ca that needs to kill them?

 

1 hour ago, satinkira said:

See, this is the thing about war - there isn't enough consequence.

I agree and feel that people that fight in wars should force pk if they die.

1 hour ago, satinkira said:

Even if your nation DOES fall, you can just hop skip jump to another hugbox such as Vienne.

Thats a consequence. Fleeing from war to a more peaceful settlement. Nothing wrong with that

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Not arguing for making "spooks" less common an cliquey than they are, but often times, when dealing with vampires, ghosts, et cetera, I feel like what creates fear is infrequence. For example, when I was a noob during war of two emperors, @FlemishSupremacyand from what I remember, TrendE would roleplay as these Renatian dragon knights who would roam the roads and hunt people from my side, and I remember distinctly roleplaying as a fearful mercenary who would soon be confronted by these people.

 

The issue with spook roleplayers is that I think a lot of them usually do "villain" rp as a "side hustle" for their characters. Like, when I am roleplaying in Oren, I see this spook roleplayer come into my tavern and order a drink, which I feel like for my bartender character normalises a lot of these sightings. Furthermore, every week, I get one arbitrary spook attack done onto my characters, or the friends of my characters, and you know that frequency of attacks can cause numerous things

 

1- It makes me oocly tired of having to deal with this vampire guy arbitrarily attacking my tavern despite having no connection to me whatsoever, and my frustration as I go about my daily business and getting interrupted while doing it translates into my roleplay because of the frequency of these attacks. If these attacks were relevant to the context of my character (for example, I am a politician, and you are a political rival that is secretly a spook and confront me in my manor) I would be much more interested in the roleplay that you are providing. However, when you are random ghost#241 interrupting my roleplay as I try to make income for my tavern, you just become a nuisance.

 

2- Spook players or otherwise even orcish or bandit raiders often get killed by the town guards or executed (I've seen this with even trials) and they just come back two days later, again, dispelling the novelty of having a spook attack your character. Even some of the rules allow some leniency with it (For example, Aurum only disbands ghosts for a while) and the tiresome aspect of everything just comes back. This leads onto my third point;

 

3- When the same spooks keep coming back after being killed, they get an ooc reputation about them that they are annoying, and a lot of these ooc opinions about roleplayers as individuals translate into roleplay. This is why often spook people get this "CRPER" reputation of being a bad faith actor to deal with. ("Achtually, you cannot parry my 5ft long vampyre claws because your character is x, please RESPECT roleplay!!!") 


I think the issues that need to be solved is, the spooks will always be the underdogs, no matter how much T5 magic you have, and often these players try to fight it out with like 20 guards and prolong the encounter as much as possible, making everyone think that they are tedious and disruptive. So i feel like spook encounters need to happen in a much more covert way rather than outwardly attacking my tavern in the middle of the square, etc. There is no hook for me to come onto the roleplay that you seek to put me into. If there were "hooks" as in possible rewards (think of a scenario where this vampire fella is guarding this ancient magical chalice or whatever) a lot of people would willingly induct themselves into them. (This is why ST spookery is much more succesful, firstly because they offer initiatives, secondly they don't have any attachment to their characters which are temporary in nature, whereas a spook character also does casual roleplay with their personas, therefore have attachment to them, and this brings about a competitive willingness to win which makes it less fun for everyone. 

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3 hours ago, satinkira said:

I don't understand the point about having war forced on you - isn't all organic conflict RP forced on you? If anything, war RP offers a better chance at character development than a vamp stopping you to attack you ever could. People who reject that, imo, are doing it for ooc reasons, and not irp ones.

 

Organic Conflict RP is generally forced upon players, yes, though with War it will always be more OOC. Getting 100 pings about signing up for the war in a discord truly shows that, especially when, as I mentioned, the only real thing anyone troubles themselves with us that temporary raid that'll happen every 3 days. People treat War with OOC than they do generic conflict. At most, in a CRP fight, people will call out power gaming and then Mods will void the situation. Conflict such as that generally doesn't last long like War which takes weeks to fully deal with and tired players out.

 

3 hours ago, satinkira said:

Not at all. If anything, overcoming ones fears irply is some of the best RP out there. My issue was more with the Jon Snow RP'ers who do roleplay where nothing scares them. Ever.

 

My solution is generally to show that characters can be scared but still do something. You can never perfectly replicate Fear with Minecraft RP, not everyone likes that, though a little fear being shown can add character to a persona. This can show that there's true feelings inside of them and that they have the ability to deal with fear. A knight is more well equipped to fight back what is scary than a rando, for example.

 

2 hours ago, sami03 said:

I agree and feel that people that fight in wars should force pk if they die.

 

No. This will lead to the aggressor's nation building an army of NPC's over 40hours specifically for war and then going to war with another nation. Only the Defensive nation will PK any actual people, which can lead to huge OOC targeting campaigns to perform mass PKs on nations a nation lead doesn't like OOCly. Or, no one will ever do wars ever since no one will ever show up. This is an undeniably shit take that will only breed problems.

 

3 hours ago, TheWanRing said:

-snip-

 

Trauma RP is never properly done, which is fine! As you said, it's complicated and not a lot of people want to go through Therapy RP for 30+ weeks. All I want to add is that Fear RP is temporary in a situation and can add to rp during conflicts. So, it should be encouraged more than Trauma RP.

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5 hours ago, satinkira said:

Something ironic that I've noted is that the spooks often roleplay fear more than six year olds in Oren. Forgive me for being just a teensy bit annoyed about this, but I heard stuff from an ST about a nation not rp'ing fear, while running at this giant spook that represents death. This surprised me - so I investigated the issue further, and found that LITERALLY NO ONE roleplays fear when confronting a spook. Vampire? Pale, wants to eat ya blood, could possibly kill you? pulls out sword, grinning. It's been too long since I've had a good fight. People raiding you! Shadowy look about them, branding and killing your fellow friends, some have weird magic, your home is threatened? gnashes teeth, pulling out duel hammers. you'll pay for hurting my friends! attacks and is instantly beaten to shit.

 

You get the point...

 

I mostly agree with Madone's take on this thread. The reality of it is bandits and spook roleplayers come a dime a dozen. It legitimately does not make sense to roleplay being scared when it's your characters fourth vampire sighting in a week because the same shitters keep coming back and back again. Often times I find the roleplay quality of spook roleplayers doesnt ever change either. When you come across an aggressive spook they're going to either try to do one of two things, kill you and steal your corpse/blood or kidnap you for some satanic ritual in which you afk while they do self-rp because their lore mandates such. This by no means leads to fear roleplay. As Sami said, the greatest fear is uncertainty. So if you want people to react to "scary" spooks more you're going to need to reinvent the genre and stop recycling the same edgy bad guy roleplay people have been doing for years.

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Posted (edited)

guys, we MUST meet the soul harvesting quota for this week! else i'll brek ur phylac... (im going to get shot for this)

Edited by chacmul
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CAs are mini-player events and should be treated as such. They're meant to be an antagonistic/event force, dealt with and beaten -- with some effort -- before they wander to a new place to restart their stuff, or rather that's my perception of it.

 

The issue isn't really with fear RP, but more-so how people perceive life or death in LoTC. Why should I be scared if I can just respawn at CT, and vice-versa why should I feel guilty or wary of spilling blood if I know they can just respawn at CT? Systems, in place, make it hard to RP Fear since there's genuinely no consequence for it save for reputation, some items lost, or consequences that you enforce on yourself.

Some CAs, specifically Klones have it good as they're on a permanent PK-Clause. If they die, that's it for them unless they've made a Klone; leading to schizo-RP where they're constantly paranoid and only getting into fights that they'll win only if they know that they've a Klone in storage, hiding somewhere.

 

Fix the mentality that players have with Life and Death, and maybe they'll able to progress onto having a heathier mindset with consequences.

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