Rules Update - CRP

[Arafel 107]

Wait, what problems does the existence of this system altogether intend to solve again? 

[Laeonathan 3925]

22 minutes ago, Arafel said:

Wait, what problems does the existence of this system altogether intend to solve again? 

Thats the question.

[Caelria 2618]

Balance default: stop roleplaying with one another and focus on the combat!

 

Maybe this patch will finally be the one to make it so mods don't have to use their braincell when combat devolves into chimping (not likely).

[Arafel 107]

11 hours ago, Laeonathan said:

Thats the question.

 

I don't know if this is quite it, but the more I read the post, the more convinced I am its goal is to make CRP undesirable for players to partake in.

 

Edit:
What I mean by this is: as someone who doesn't particularly enjoy engaging in combat role-play right off the bat, I could at least find solace in it not requiring me to keep track of arbitrary rules and restrictions on in-game and out-of-game variables such as distance, time, or text character limit. I was able to make short work of it through the same means most other role-play interactions were dealt with, abiding by a sense of fair play, understanding (or trusting) anyone abusing this honor system of sorts would be reprimanded if they took things too far.

 

However, adding restrictions such as these only makes the prospect of dealing with combat role-play something for me to dread, specially being one who enjoys elaborate descriptions in the spirit of providing other players with a better grasp over the actions and scenery I'm attempting to convey to them. I can try and keep track of 4 or 8 blocks of movement per emote, but the arbitrary consequences of falling X or Y number of blocks is going to have people pausing combat to go look at the rules over and over again. I'm calling it now.

 

This looks less like a change in the name of balance, and more of a change in the name of convenience. Not the players' convenience, mind you, but rather the moderation team's convenience. They're not formulated with common sense and fair play in mind, like the majority of the rules and guidelines for a role-play environment ought to be. Rather, they're formulated so as to function as clear-cut restrictions that facilitate matters for anyone who may have previously worried about whether or not one or more involved parties were abusing the honor system for their own selfish gain/enjoyment - or, more specifically: to facilitate matters for anyone in charge of moderating such scenarios and trying to figure out whether or not fair play was thrown out the window by someone abusing the honor system.

 

If you are having trouble discerning abusers from people who enjoy their combat flavor-text a bit too much, implementing rules and changes such as these makes perfect sense. However, it also introduces restrictions that will undoubtedly change the manner in which people approach combat and strategize, while also making it tedious for those of us who couldn't care less whether they win or lose in a fight, so long as it was enjoyable for all those involved. You're better off just enforcing the spirit of established rules rather than the letter of new ones, and making it clear anyone that raises a few sets of eyebrows too many with their way of doing combat role-play is going to get reprimanded one way or another. 

 

As it stands, you're asking us to keep track of arbitrary restrictions under the pretense it will make things flow more smoothly. In reality, we'll have to remind ourselves of yet another set of variables that will directly affect the manner in which we approach combat on top of everything else one would normally have to keep track of when fighting other people, when all we players ought to be doing is focusing on the character interactions at hand and their immediate consequences, trusting the moderation team will no doubt step in if anyone calls foul or the situation spirals out of sensible hands.

 

TL;DR

You're delegating responsibilities onto the players. We're here to role-play; to interact with other people in a shared narrative resulting from our contributions and compromises - not to keep track of a movement system, timed engagement, and fall damage, with the added emote character limit on top of the above.

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Arafel
I decided to elaborate further~

[excited 10833]

This makes me immensely pleased.

 

Mostly because my existence on here is satire.

 

Everyone else is suffering.

[Fie 2519]

dont see the reason for a word limit but ok

[Salvo 1831]

Or you could just PvP.

 

This freakish hybrid of a half-mechanically based, half text adventure combat is among the worst things I've ever seen. It's reminding me of how Byzantium fell

[ReveredOwl 5314]

Its sad that we don't even have pve events anymore so events that should take an hour take 4

[Burnsider 4542]

5 hours ago, Arafel said:

keep track of arbitrary rules and restrictions on in-game and out-of-game variables such as distance, time, or text character limit. I was able to make short work of it through the same means most other role-play interactions were dealt with, abiding by a sense of fair play, understanding (or trusting) anyone abusing this honor system of sorts would be reprimanded if they took things too far.

 

The rules are not arbitrary. In each instance, the rules were designed in line with the portion of our mission statement which was about giving players the tools they needed so they wouldn't need to call for a staff ruling as often. 

 

As to your worry about keeping track of things, I don't fully get how this is more difficult for you. You already had to keep track of distance. Now you still do. The only thing you have to track is ten minutes, which is there to make sure you don't feel too rushed when making your emotes for fear of incoming reinforcements. And there is no character text limit. You just can't have your character recite Shakespearean soliloquies during a single sword swing. 

 

5 hours ago, Arafel said:

specially being one who enjoys elaborate descriptions in the spirit of providing other players with a better grasp over the actions and scenery I'm attempting to convey to them.

 

There is no emote length restriction. The restriction is on how much your character can speak during a single action. 

 

5 hours ago, Arafel said:

but the arbitrary consequences of falling X or Y number of blocks is going to have people pausing combat to go look at the rules over and over again

 

Is this a common thing? I've never fallen any number of blocks in a CRP before. 

 

Again, this is designed so that players do not have to always call for staff intervention. "Burnsider, this guy just fell like 6 blocks. He says he can parkour it but that sounds like powergaming." Well, now you don't have to have an arbitrary mod ruling. 

 

5 hours ago, Arafel said:

all we players ought to be doing is focusing on the character interactions at hand and their immediate consequences, trusting the moderation team will no doubt step in if anyone calls foul or the situation spirals out of sensible hands.

 

When CRP default was first established, everyone complained that it would grind all combat to a halt specifically because there were no specific rules and mod intervention would be regularly needed. In response to this overwhelming feedback, rules were established to prevent that. 

 

6 hours ago, Arafel said:

You're relegating duties onto the players

 

Yes. That's a good thing. Not just for staff, but for players. 

[sami03 386]

1 hour ago, Burnsider said:

When CRP default was first established, everyone complained that it would grind all combat to a halt specifically because there were no specific rules and mod intervention would be regularly needed. In response to this overwhelming feedback, rules were established to prevent that. 

I am sure that honor crp default with rules will lessen the time when staff is needed to supervise

Or we just add defender default so you can just pvp with people of a certain type

Edited June 8, 2022 by sami03

[Burnsider 4542]

9 minutes ago, sami03 said:

I am sure that honor crp default with rules will lessen the time when staff is needed to supervise

Or we just add defender default so you can just pvp with of people of a certain type

 

Nothing is stopping the parties from choosing PvP if they both want.

[The King Of The Moon 5117]

39 minutes ago, sami03 said:

Or we just add defender default so you can just pvp with of people of a certain type

Shame this system was run into the ground because pvping people 'of a certain type' translated to pvping anyone with any form of advantage, making roleplay redundant to conflict :/

The purpose behind these rules is quite clearly to make roleplay combat more realistic and in turn encourage more people to actually bother taking realistic narrative factors into account with their combat roleplay. Advocating PVP doesn't offer any sort of solution to that problem other than throwing your hands up and deciding that you'd rather have an OOC clicking contest than tell a long term story in our shared roleplaying community. I genuinely believe that people's attitudes can and will improve over time toward good faith where staff involvement is less and less necessary, and these rules seem to be a step in the right direction, wherein PVPs only real merit is for time saving in larger groups (which is still a thing and isn't realistically going to ever go away so long as we have war on this server).

I don't think these rules are perfect, and in my heart of hearts I doubt there ever will be a perfect CRP system, but shitposting with clown gifs and advocating OOC combat isn't really contributing much to the discussion on how we can foster an ideal roleplay environment.

[𝖂𝖆𝖌𝖜𝖆𝖓 740]

Please just go back to defender default lmao

[MissToni 3487]

15 hours ago, Burnsider said:

 

What? It's literally the opposite. We are already dealing with people delaying to get reinforcements. Now, if they do so, they don't get rewarded for it. 

 

Whereas in the new ruleset, the reinforcements are not slowed down by emoting because they are not yet in CRP. They either make it in ten minutes or not. If the do, it doesn't matter if the person was delaying or not, they still can join. If they don't, it doesn't matter if the person was delaying or not, they still can't join. 

 

 

Yes, that's the point. Now people don't have to race through typing and do shit emotes just to ensure that they can get away before reinforcements inevitably show up. And if there's no cap, they will eventually show up. 

 

As @Rayaliastated before on the new rule of not being allowed to run for reinforcements being a bit dumb along with the 10 minute CRP lock they also brought up some good pointers on how to make it more fair in terms of the new rules on movement. That any reinforcements brought to combat the bandits, raiders or whatever has to start 20-30 blocks (3 - 4 emotes) away, and emote in turn after those two has emoted like one would if they were there fighting, if it's in the middle of the road or far from the capitol. Which like they said, gives the attacker(s) time to decide if they want to risk it and keep fighting the person or run away. (And yes the attacker(s) would be able to hear a hoarde of 10-20 men and women running towards them in gear even if their back is turned.) Though if it's in the middle of a square in the capitol I'd say guards or citizens part of that city (not counting reinforcements from other nations, they still gotta do the 20-30 blocks) only has to start 10-16 blocks (1-2 emotes) away. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by MissToni
Added more stuff

[Aehkaj 516]

I get people dislike the change with the word count for speech, but if you really think about it when you're doing extensive physical activity like fighting you ain't gonna be talking. You wouldn't be in a hard fight singing sea shanties, you'd be focused on the fight. And given if you kept talking, you'd run out of gas faster and run out of breath. Talking while fighting also opens up more possibilities to bite your tongue off, and you know what happens when you do that? blood. lots of blood. then death.

 

And yeah, reading someone's attack emote but also having to cycle through a ton of dialogue as well as a essay as to how they are doing a horizontal slash from left to right is kinda dumb