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Bias & Rule Breaking in the Celianor v. Krugmar War


TreeSmoothie
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DOOMPOSTING TIME!

 

I would say cope and seethe, but OOC motivation is a major problem on this server. There will probably never be a fair war irply (if there even was one) ever again. We cannot rely on the average player to abide by the rules when they know full well that they can be abused to their benefit via staff bias or whatever.

 

But on topic, this problem is not out of the ordinary and I doubt anything will change now or in coming wars. Best we can do is be the bigger person and follow the rules, even if the other side is breaking them.

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56 minutes ago, TreeSmoothie said:

On the thread, a definitive date – the 18th – was declared for the war allegedly without allowing the input of the side of the Horde. Many times has it been pointed out, as it is both a day before a large holiday that a good majority of players observe/celebrate and one that a large amount of players from the side of the Horde, and even the nation leader himself cannot attend. Thus, by denying them any say in a war date, the Horde is set up for failure and the discussion meant cater to both sides equally only caters to one side, Celianor.

"Hello, I agree with having the warclaim at 3-4PM EST as that is a perfect time for us to be able to attend as we have many players from different timezones as does the other side. We are uncertain as of right now as to whether we can do the warclaim on the 25th or this weekend, however we are leaning towards the 25th as many wish to see the two week notice for warclaims as well as prolonged communication with the admin team in regards to our fortress. Our current fort has been made by hand and we have made many attempts to reach out to see what is approved and what is not." -drunkpapabear 

 

I have looked through the entire thread and i can not find a point where he says the horde is unable to fight on the 18, i can however find him asking for two weeks notice prior to the claim. Had there been a clear communication about the horde being unable to attend a claim on the 18th I'm sure matta would have taken that into consideration. Additionally the war has been going on for three weeks at the current time, you may find the entire timeline for the war located here: https://wiki.lordofthecraft.net/index.php?title=War:Malinor-Horde_War 

 

Additionally there is a very large difference between the the horde-elysium war and the horde-malin'or war, one of which being that Elysium had their war claim two weeks into the ongoing conflict (until crimes delayed and was pushed back to 3) Well this war is having their warclaim 4 weeks into the ongoing conflict. 

56 minutes ago, TreeSmoothie said:

Itdontmata also mentions how both nations have 'bargaining chips' in regards to letting eachother build before the battle, connotating that Krugmar does have equal bargainig power. That Celianor wants to paste a new city that they could very easily do once the war concludes in 2 days, versus vital defenses needed for Krugmar because the long-dead city that no longer exists INRP that Celianor wishes to siege has poor infrastructure.

you would like a fort pasted in

Nor'ash wants an entire settlement pasted in

 

you both have bargaining power here as the settlement paste has been denied due to the war. 

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

At the end of the day i have denied fighting for both sides and taken a neutral stance so i may do the wiki page without irp or ooc bias. With that being said i do not believe accusing the moderation and administration of bias and dragging itdontmatta through the mud is good. One side will never be happy with the war however i have seen people on the side of the horde drag the moderation and administration through the mud as well as petition/file reports for members of the community to be banned for trivial or unnecessary reasons.  Please take a step back and take a breath, let us not turn this war into another war of 2 emps or brothers' war with the levels of toxicity being shown. 

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I'm waiting for all the haters to dogpile onto this post. But yeah, every war that I've seen, which has only been about three or four.. They've all been shit.

 

18 minutes ago, Wizzar said:

Since I joined the server, I have come to realize the inevitability of OOC conflict in almost every faucet of this server, this runs especially true in PVP scenarios (raids and wars). Raids quickly become a "who violated a rules" first situation where mods are weaponized to punish/ban players by the opposing faction while wars are just OOC bickering for months until a 20 minutes PvP blob decides the fate of the nation. While I truly do sympathize with the staff who sits in the middle of all of this OOC nonsense. I believe it is largely due to server rules, the inescapable bias that staff holds, and the lack of any body or set of rules to check the power and decisions of the staff.

 

At the end of the day, the majority of the staff and the population of the server are quite literally children/young adults. They are not trained to arbitrate conflicts and rules. In fact, I have come to realize that MANY moderators do not even know the rules themselves. This leads to inconsistent decisions on a day-to-day basis that the playerbase has trouble accepting as we all recognize and know that this happens. Additionally, it is impossible for these conflicts to be arbitrated and negotiated fairly when the server is so interconnected. Almost every staff/player has some sort of opinion going into every conflict or at least their friends do. Therefore, bias is absolutely impossible to escape.

 

If we want wars and other similar situations to not completely suck on the server, the staff and playerbase each need to recognize a few things. Firstly, as a staff (especially a moderator), you ARE NOT a fair arbitrator of most of these situations. STICK TO THE RULES. If the rules do not adequately cover a situation, it should not be decided by the opinion of one or two people. Honestly, I do not have a solution for the playerbase issues. In these wars and raids, all I see is OOC fueled hate that influences important IRP situations. Getting involved in these situations is unfun. 

This guy said it best, I think. Unless you are fueled by OOC toxicity, most of these situations are just blatantly unfun, but again, except for the goons that feed off all of this.

We need to make like, some of those Walmart promotional videos that show the workers how to do their jobs, but for staff. (And we all know Walmart workers are trash anyway.) But hey! Maybe it'd help. 😂 Now, I'm gonna spectate the rest of this nonsense and eat popcorn while this blows up again and evidently, most likely, possibly gets locked.

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commenting before lock because the barbog needs his VOICE to SCREAM and ARGUE and SPREAD MISINFORMATION

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Which krugmar leader gave you this doc to post

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42 minutes ago, Qizu said:

This too, still wondering why the ferrymen are leading the discussion and not the nation they are declaring war on behalf of.

It's almost as though the NL's (who were discussing it) were Ferrymen! Really is a pickle why Ferrymen associated players would be discussing a war led by NL's who happen to be Ferrymen.

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give me a voice. :(

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28 minutes ago, JoshBright said:

"Hello, I agree with having the warclaim at 3-4PM EST as that is a perfect time for us to be able to attend as we have many players from different timezones as does the other side. We are uncertain as of right now as to whether we can do the warclaim on the 25th or this weekend, however we are leaning towards the 25th as many wish to see the two week notice for warclaims as well as prolonged communication with the admin team in regards to our fortress. Our current fort has been made by hand and we have made many attempts to reach out to see what is approved and what is not." -drunkpapabear 

 

I have looked through the entire thread and i can not find a point where he says the horde is unable to fight on the 18, i can however find him asking for two weeks notice prior to the claim. Had there been a clear communication about the horde being unable to attend a claim on the 18th I'm sure matta would have taken that into consideration. Additionally the war has been going on for three weeks at the current time, you may find the entire timeline for the war located here: https://wiki.lordofthecraft.net/index.php?title=War:Malinor-Horde_War 

 

Additionally there is a very large difference between the the horde-elysium war and the horde-malin'or war, one of which being that Elysium had their war claim two weeks into the ongoing conflict (until crimes delayed and was pushed back to 3) Well this war is having their warclaim 4 weeks into the ongoing conflict. 

you would like a fort pasted in

Nor'ash wants an entire settlement pasted in

 

you both have bargaining power here as the settlement paste has been denied due to the war. 

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

At the end of the day i have denied fighting for both sides and taken a neutral stance so i may do the wiki page without irp or ooc bias. With that being said i do not believe accusing the moderation and administration of bias and dragging itdontmatta through the mud is good. One side will never be happy with the war however i have seen people on the side of the horde drag the moderation and administration through the mud as well as petition/file reports for members of the community to be banned for trivial or unnecessary reasons.  Please take a step back and take a breath, let us not turn this war into another war of 2 emps or brothers' war with the levels of toxicity being shown. 

You're awesome for not picking either side (genuinely, this is not sarcastic) -- I'm glad that we can have a war wiki that won't be constantly fought over by both sides like that oren one some time ago 😭

 

Here's what Drunk has said (threaquotes) about the date:

"We are uncertain as of right now as to whether we can do the warclaim on the 25th or this weekend, however we are leaning towards the 25th as many wish to see the two week notice for warclaims."

 

"In regards to the field battle time, we are not electing to fight in the 18th at this moment as we are allowed 2 weeks time after the post for the warclaim to take place."

(Thread)

 

The reasons for this were later stated in Krugmar and the war disc -- solely because it's the holiday weekend, unfortunately its not only him but most of us that can't attend. 

19 minutes ago, Chennster said:

Which krugmar leader gave you this doc to post

I wrote it, and I'd appreciate that comments keep to discussion and not insulting o7. Not sure what the point of your comment was? 

Screenshot_20220616-135655_Docs.jpg

 

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3 minutes ago, TreeSmoothie said:

The reasons for this were later stated in Krugmar and the war disc -- solely because it's the holiday weekend, unfortunately its not only him but most of us that can't attend. 

That should have been properly communicated used the war thread which both sides have been posting on, I'm sure had drunk said "we can not do the 18th as myself and a majority of our rally can not make it, can we push it back a week or make it Sunday" matta would have looked at that and said 'ok'. However that was not communicated using the thread. 

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8 minutes ago, Twinny said:

give me a voice. :(

No, ur a woman. Stfu

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7 minutes ago, JoshBright said:

That should have been properly communicated used the war thread which both sides have been posting on, I'm sure had drunk said "we can not do the 18th as myself and a majority of our rally can not make it, can we push it back a week or make it Sunday" matta would have looked at that and said 'ok'. However that was not communicated using the thread. 

Very true ^ I'm unsure if it was communicated to Itdontmatta as I'm basically just a spectator in everything, but, it still is common knowledge the date chosen is a day before a large holiday -- he has also pretty frequently spoken in the krugmar disc when Cheezygarlik was talking about him, so he likely would have seen all of the people complaining about it in General and announcements. I'd hope so, anywho

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2 minutes ago, TreeSmoothie said:

Very true ^ I'm unsure if it was communicated to Itdontmatta as I'm basically just a spectator in everything, but, it still is common knowledge the date chosen is a day before a large holiday -- he has also pretty frequently spoken in the krugmar disc when Cheezygarlik was talking about him, so he likely would have seen all of the people complaining about it in General and announcements. I'd hope so, anywho

! But I seen someone bragging like 80 people were confirmed for saturday at 3pm est, are they not gunna show if drunk doesnt? 

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1 minute ago, Twinny said:

! But I seen someone bragging like 80 people were confirmed for saturday at 3pm est, are they not gunna show if drunk doesnt? 


I don’t think anyone was necessarily boasting but a lot of our leadership and a major of players have been asking for the 25th

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