[✓] [Rewrite] [MA + FA] Kani - The Art of the Oscillit

[ronin_champloo 5951]

1 minute ago, Slorbin said:

whats with the dumb 'oh.. the real name of it is metgaming- you have to call it something else' that lore pieces keep ******* having. like why. what does it ******* add

 

primarily to add culture as every playerbase calling it [x] is dumb, another thing is that it is not common-knowledge so fellas calling it kani already is alarming (no one calls it kani irp anyways). it's half meta-bait and other-half meant for culture so any1 can call it whatever they want

 

also it is no longer called kani

 

20 minutes ago, Pyrite said:

This came off way easier to read as opposed to the previous Kani lore, very nice.

Though I wonder, can Kinetic Blast be used with other heavy hitting spells?

 

no, u cant use kani alongside spells

[Hephaestus 1317]

this is cool but how could u clarify how kani reacts vs. drudonic style of the albatross magic (pasquinas prowess)/when stacked with it

[ronin_champloo 5951]

4 minutes ago, Hephaestus said:

this is cool but how could u clarify how kani reacts vs. drudonic style of the albatross magic (pasquinas prowess)/when stacked with it

 

Breathjutsu deeplore but Kani is a weakened variant of Drudonic style of the Albatross Magic (he went bk in time and developed the art in its most potent form)

[Hephaestus 1317]

4 minutes ago, shartings said:

Breathjutsu deeplore but Kani is a weakened variant of Drudonic style of the Albatross Magic (he went bk in time and developed the art in its most potent form)

 

okay, ty for clarifying this

[Pyrite 192]

19 minutes ago, shartings said:

no, u cant use kani alongside spells

True, that's fair

[LoTC's Next Top Model 713]

i don't really understand the logic behind making kani a two slot, honestly. if it's to limit min-maxing, the magic already isn't exactly a meta strat for voidal users considering it doubles the emote counts of all spells in combat, making them largely ineffectual. the other obtainable lore on the server which allows voidals to have their old strength back, is arguably stronger in combat, a feat, and with a much less impactful downside of limiting you to t3 magic, so any minmaxer will just take that instead already, even with kani as a one-slot. this just seems like it'll make kani, already a niche and uncommon magic, and make it something people minmax in order to take, such as by using cas that arn't affected by said downsides (azdrazi, for example).

[Sanziene 71]

I mean, it is reformated but not rewritten? The changes are minimal and are mainly in line breaks, grammar and some terms that don't really need changing, especially not under the guise of accesibility. I've noticed a couple sentences here and there that were more distinct in wording but that was it, really.

 

Does it make it easier to read on the forums? Sure, maybe. But I don't really understand how this 'rewrite' makes the magic more accesible. If you need to inject more grandfathers because there aren't enough users, why not just do that! Instead of making a second post of the exact same forum page for the sake of calling it a rewrite. And naming it a Naruto parody.

 

Also the two slots are simply unnecesary. All voidal magics one might take alongside Kani are already shot in combat because of the double emote count. All you have left are things used soley for flavour rp outside of combat. Which is a good thing, so why limit that? You can already use Kani with other CA's for the sake of making the character stronger and this change is not stopping people from doing that. What it's doing is making someone stop and think "hell do I want my shaolin showdown monk to be a crazy good chef (housemagery) or just pretend to be a crazy good chef (illusion) since I don't have slots for both now".

[ronin_champloo 5951]

26 minutes ago, Gelaticam said:

I mean, it is reformated but not rewritten? The changes are minimal and are mainly in line breaks, grammar and some terms that don't really need changing, especially not under the guise of accesibility. I've noticed a couple sentences here and there that were more distinct in wording but that was it, really.

 

Does it make it easier to read on the forums? Sure, maybe. But I don't really understand how this 'rewrite' makes the magic more accesible. If you need to inject more grandfathers because there aren't enough users, why not just do that! Instead of making a second post of the exact same forum page for the sake of calling it a rewrite. And naming it a Naruto parody.

 

Also the two slots are simply unnecesary. All voidal magics one might take alongside Kani are already shot in combat because of the double emote count. All you have left are things used soley for flavour rp outside of combat. Which is a good thing, so why limit that? You can already use Kani with other CA's for the sake of making the character stronger and this change is not stopping people from doing that. What it's doing is making someone stop and think "hell do I want my shaolin showdown monk to be a crazy good chef (housemagery) or just pretend to be a crazy good chef (illusion) since I don't have slots for both now".

 

hey, so the 2-slot thing was something that I was recommended by people since they've some concerns about it being minxmaxed w/ a variety of other stuff. the whole rewriting was to fix issues with vagueness in the lore, and as squak said in the spoiler, to make it more easier to read by the ST, new-players and people who haven't seen the lore before and there was a bunch of stretching to allow stuff to happen. etc, i cant rmbr who it was, but they threw like i think an axe? with enough force to shred thru steel and a horse's neck (maybe break it, i cant rmbr)

 

if your lore need some1 to know of Newton's Cradle beforehand, i dont think its understandable by ppl -- much less people who haven't delved into this kinda thing b4 lmao

 

the grandfathering was smth i requested as right now, there are... only 3(?) active teachers and that's rly pushing it. the first 2 dont rly play that character, and the last keeps it tightknit which aint rly a bad thing, i just wish it was more spread out. nonetheless, the grandfathering process is alot more complicated if a magic is inactive, so i just thought to crush 2 birds w/ 1 stone

 

if ppl rly want me to name it 'kani' oocly, sure

 

nonetheless, the naruto parody meme was an experiment to see if a lore was named so inanely, would players make up their own names for culture, etc instead of just looking up on the forums and calling it w/e they want

 

the linebreak changes are stuff that i did after i posted the lore, otherwise the mechanics of the spells are either entirely rewritten, changed somewhat or fixed/altered redlines

 

nonetheless ! if ppl want it to be slot 1, idrm. otherwise, what's wrong with making it slot 2..? if there's nothing to have alongside it, as youve said voidal magicks aren't rly that feasible with it, what's the problem with only having 2 magic slots left ?

 

also, not sure if you've read the redline but kani can't be used in conjuction w/ other strength-altering ablities, or even normal spells so the problem of 'You can already use Kani with other CA's for the sake of making the character stronger' doesnt even exist lol

 

"hell do I want my shaolin showdown monk to be a crazy good chef (housemagery) or just pretend to be a crazy good chef (illusion) since I don't have slots for both now".

 

also illusion and housemagery take up a slot each. uve 5 magic slots, u can still have 1 more magic slot left lol

52 minutes ago, LoTC's Next Top Model said:

i don't really understand the logic behind making kani a two slot, honestly. if it's to limit min-maxing, the magic already isn't exactly a meta strat for voidal users considering it doubles the emote counts of all spells in combat, making them largely ineffectual. the other obtainable lore on the server which allows voidals to have their old strength back, is arguably stronger in combat, a feat, and with a much less impactful downside of limiting you to t3 magic, so any minmaxer will just take that instead already, even with kani as a one-slot. this just seems like it'll make kani, already a niche and uncommon magic, and make it something people minmax in order to take, such as by using cas that arn't affected by said downsides (azdrazi, for example).

 

uh i dont think there's any downsides of kani at all, and i dont rly understand that it'll make ppl minmax in order to take kani -- if you could explain, that'd be perfect. if anything, azdrazi is nerfed by kani as they can only use it in their 'descendant form' which is wacky imo, sure some1 could use their scales as an example as resonance cant be achieved thru natural armor n w/e but it's just aesthetic and doesnt add any combative flair

 

otherwise, if y'all rly want it to be 1 slot, idrm 

[ronin_champloo 5951]

hell even archi, the prior writer of kani, was chill w/ me doing pursuing a brush up/slight rewrite (of abilities) of the lore

[LoTC's Next Top Model 713]

12 minutes ago, shartings said:

uh i dont think there's any downsides of kani at all, and i dont rly understand that it'll make ppl minmax in order to take kani -- if you could explain, that'd be perfect. if anything, azdrazi is nerfed by kani as they can only use it in their 'descendant form' which is wacky imo, sure some1 could use their scales as an example but it's just aesthetic and doesnt add any combative flair

- Continuous Resonance allows for one to surpass voidal weakness. However, this comes at a cost. Despite maintaining the same amount of mana and subsequent exertion as a non-Oscillit, voidal casting times are doubled during combat, and will require additional concentration if shifting from inciting Aggressive Resonance to establishing a Voidal Connection and vice versa; the two can not be done in tandem and a one emote break is required between beginning to utilise either.

this is a HUMONGOUS downside, mate. doubled emotes + 1 makes voidal magic largely unusable in combat for voidal kani users, unless you frequently engage in crp where you're left alone for six to ten straight emotes when you're clearly casting, in which case you could have no magics and a decently heavy stick and cause just as much damage. and i have to assume you meant to discourage voidal use with increasing slots, because nothing else would really be affected. it makes it so necromancers can no longer use kani, and it reduces one slot worth of power with naztherak, but beyond that it still combos just the same with every other dark magic. it won't affect holy magic users in any way, since they already can't use dark or voidal magics (as far as i'm aware), so the slot cost is moot for them. this only affects a very select, very niche group of people; void users who also want to be martial artists, whom also otherwise suffer massive downsides (i.e. doubled emote lengths).

azdrazi in their descendent form arn't nerfed, also? they're... just as strong as anyone else. they can now just go "heh, i'm going kani mode" instead of "heh, i'm going dragon mode".

[ronin_champloo 5951]

9 minutes ago, LoTC's Next Top Model said:

- Continuous Resonance allows for one to surpass voidal weakness. However, this comes at a cost. Despite maintaining the same amount of mana and subsequent exertion as a non-Oscillit, voidal casting times are doubled during combat, and will require additional concentration if shifting from inciting Aggressive Resonance to establishing a Voidal Connection and vice versa; the two can not be done in tandem and a one emote break is required between beginning to utilise either.

this is a HUMONGOUS downside, mate. doubled emotes + 1 makes voidal magic largely unusable in combat for voidal kani users, unless you frequently engage in crp where you're left alone for six to ten straight emotes when you're clearly casting, in which case you could have no magics and a decently heavy stick and cause just as much damage. and i have to assume you meant to discourage voidal use with increasing slots, because nothing else would really be affected. it makes it so necromancers can no longer use kani, and it reduces one slot worth of power with naztherak, but beyond that it still combos just the same with every other dark magic. it won't affect holy magic users in any way, since they already can't use dark or voidal magics (as far as i'm aware), so the slot cost is moot for them. this only affects a very select, very niche group of people; void users who also want to be martial artists, whom also otherwise suffer massive downsides (i.e. doubled emote lengths).

azdrazi in their descendent form arn't nerfed, also? they're... just as strong as anyone else. they can now just go "heh, i'm going kani mode" instead of "heh, i'm going dragon mode".

 

being able to cast and possibly have 3 more voidal magics at T5 while not being able to be weakened by voidal weaknesses for the price of only requiring double emotes is not a downside at all. and i thought u were referring to it at its base form

 

personally the ability to wear full-plate armor w/ voidal magicks, and the only cost being double emotes, isn't rly that bad of a deal. plate armor is p op n strong for most stuff, not rly too sure abt voidal lore if it means they can cast w/ swords, maces or polearms but ill need to check that

 

otherwise, like ive said. u can still have [3] voidal magicks with this, [2] if uve transfig; that's more than enough and if players are like counting the amt of magicks they have and trying to max it out to see how much they can get, i feel like that's minmaxing. besides, if they want to, they can drop the voidal magic as voidal TAs still persist even if the mage no longer has the magic, they can just teach themselves

 

also azdrazi are nerfed by kani (or rather limited. thats the better word for it) they cant use kani unless theyre in their descendant form haha

 

if ppl rly want it 1 slot, i said i don't mind. im just trying to understand what the problem is w/ it being 2 slot

[LoTC's Next Top Model 713]

1 minute ago, shartings said:

 

being able to cast and possibly have 3 more voidal magics at T5 while not being able to be weakened by voidal weaknesses for the price of only requiring double emotes is not a downside at all. and i thought u were referring to it at its base form

 

personally the ability to wear full-plate armor w/ voidal magicks, and the only cost being double emotes, isn't rly that bad of a deal. plate armor is p op n strong for most stuff, not rly too sure abt voidal lore if it means they can cast w/ words, maces or polearms but ill need to check that

 

otherwise, like ive said. u can still have [3] voidal magicks with this, [2] if uve transfig; that's more than enough and if players are like counting the amt of magicks they have and trying to max it out to see how much they can get, i feel like that's minmaxing. besides, if they want to, they can drop the voidal magic as voidal TAs still persist even if the mage no longer has the magic, they can just teach themselves

the fact you say double emotes isn't a cost is ABSURD to me.

if fire evo is fine with DOUBLE EMOTE LENGTHS (+1), then shouldn't it be dramatically overpowered without kani? normal emote lengths at t3 is a trillion times better than t5 with double emote lengths, especially when paired with the oppurtunity cost being a feat (nothing) instead of two full slots.

so, let's put this into a combat situation. you want to cast the fire evo spell flamethrower, but you're already in aggressive resonance. first emote is swapping from kani mode to void mode. second emote is connecting. third emote is charging. fourth emote is charging. fifth emote is charging. sixth emote is charging. seventh emote is charging. eighth emote is charging. ninth emote you cast.

how often are you in a crp situation where you're allowed to do this? probably never, considering the four emote cast time is also extremely hard to pull off, in combat. every other fire evo spell (that's useful in combat, that is) requires either 3 or 4 emotes, translated to six or eight (plus one if you were already doing kani stuff). in what situation would this ever be preferable to just beating people up with your kani powers, or not having kani at all and doing the same thing in less than half the emotes?

secondly, alright, you can wear full plate with voidal magics if you also have kani, cool. but you can't cast the voidal magics in the plate armour. and, also, you can't use /kani/ in the plate armour.

- Resonance cannot be achieved directly through any metallic weapon or armour piece worn by the Oscillator. This also applies to materials of similar density to metal, such as Ironwood, as the inciting of Resonance through objects is hindered by said object’s hardness first and foremost. This leaves the possibility for wooden or softer weapons to be used in certain ways and with certain abilities should the ranges be met. 

so... if you have three voidal magics AND kani, you have the powers of a normal person with no magics in decent shape, in exchange for your magics taking double emote counts. how is this an upside? to wear heavy armour you can use neither your voidal nor kani in? and, even assuming you could, you'd still just be stabbed on your third, fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh emote where you're standing still because you can't move very much while you're casting and you're in the middle of a battle. unless you're far away from the battle, in which case the armour isn't actually helping you and an entirely naked void mage would be doing exactly double the work you are.

i have no idea what abuses were brought up to you, but they were almost certainly either powergaming or straight up not allowed by the other lores in question, which should be fixed by punishing said powergaming/lorebreaking players instead of nerfing a magic for a specific group of people.
 

[ronin_champloo 5951]

20 minutes ago, LoTC's Next Top Model said:

the fact you say double emotes isn't a cost is ABSURD to me.

if fire evo is fine with DOUBLE EMOTE LENGTHS (+1), then shouldn't it be dramatically overpowered without kani? normal emote lengths at t3 is a trillion times better than t5 with double emote lengths, especially when paired with the oppurtunity cost being a feat (nothing) instead of two full slots.

so, let's put this into a combat situation. you want to cast the fire evo spell flamethrower, but you're already in aggressive resonance. first emote is swapping from kani mode to void mode. second emote is connecting. third emote is charging. fourth emote is charging. fifth emote is charging. sixth emote is charging. seventh emote is charging. eighth emote is charging. ninth emote you cast.

how often are you in a crp situation where you're allowed to do this? probably never, considering the four emote cast time is also extremely hard to pull off, in combat. every other fire evo spell (that's useful in combat, that is) requires either 3 or 4 emotes, translated to six or eight (plus one if you were already doing kani stuff). in what situation would this ever be preferable to just beating people up with your kani powers, or not having kani at all and doing the same thing in less than half the emotes?

secondly, alright, you can wear full plate with voidal magics if you also have kani, cool. but you can't cast the voidal magics in the plate armour. and, also, you can't use /kani/ in the plate armour.

- Resonance cannot be achieved directly through any metallic weapon or armour piece worn by the Oscillator. This also applies to materials of similar density to metal, such as Ironwood, as the inciting of Resonance through objects is hindered by said object’s hardness first and foremost. This leaves the possibility for wooden or softer weapons to be used in certain ways and with certain abilities should the ranges be met. 

so... if you have three voidal magics AND kani, you have the powers of a normal person with no magics in decent shape, in exchange for your magics taking double emote counts. how is this an upside? to wear heavy armour you can use neither your voidal nor kani in? and, even assuming you could, you'd still just be stabbed on your third, fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh emote where you're standing still because you can't move very much while you're casting and you're in the middle of a battle. unless you're far away from the battle, in which case the armour isn't actually helping you and an entirely naked void mage would be doing exactly double the work you are.

i have no idea what abuses were brought up to you, but they were almost certainly either powergaming or straight up not allowed by the other lores in question, which should be fixed by punishing said powergaming/lorebreaking players instead of nerfing a magic for a specific group of people.
 

 

why are you casting a flamethrower in a range where it's better to use a shield and mace if ure a voidal mage w/ continous reso. better yet, the range of flamethower is 7 blocks, and u can walk that far w/ current crp rules if u arent doing anything but running. i think ud be game-ended even if u were a normal voidal mage. actually now i think abt it, i think ud be worse-off as voidal mages cant wear armor to mitigate strikes w/ swords or maces (well armor will dampen the severe effect of maces. will still fk u up)

 

Once a mage has reached about three OOC months of casting would find themselves unable to cast in anything heavier than gambeson, struggling to connect and maintain their breath in heavy plate.

 

and no, u can cast magic in plate-armor w/ continous resonance; voidal lore even states that u'll have difficulty using a weapon like a broadsword and can only wear gambeson if ure just a normal poop mage. if it was a 1v1, i can see the doubled emotes being worse, but if it's in a group crp fight (like most things are), ud be surprised of what u can pull off. keep in mind that -- barring t5 spells -- u can move in crp

 

that being said tho, i can see what u mean by big chungus spells being mighty costy; 8 spells for a flamethrower that ppl will powergame thru, much less walk out of, is kinda inane. ill talk with the people who helped bring the issues up to me, and see what conclusion we come up to, im kinda leaning to 1 slot imo

 

also yeah, u shouldve seen it. a person, i THINK a haenser?? it sounds like one, threw a throwing axe w/ enhanced strength(?) -- which i dont think should be allowed since this exists -- to shred thru a horse's armor and neck, or break it. i genuinely cant rmbr haha

 

CA races cannot perform Kani alongside any activated combat relevant abilities and must allow a single emote break following the completion of said abilities before they can begin to incite resonance again (IE: a passive ability, such as maintaining a third arm after the fact it was created by an Afflicted, would not render one in capable of inciting resonance, though active abilities such as a Varg shifting into their beastial form, all manner of Azdrazi flame abilities or a Siliti’s Metamorphosis (Major) ability would require a break after the ability’s completion before inciting resonance again).

 

the COUNCIL has spoken. 1 slot magic unless LT vote otherwise

[LoTC's Next Top Model 713]

i had a big long post typed out but trying to add an image wiped it all so i'm gonna be more concise

 

20 minutes ago, shartings said:

why are you casting a flamethrower in a range where it's better to use a shield and mace if ure a voidal mage w/ continous reso. better yet, the range of flamethower is 7 blocks, and u can walk that far w/ current crp rules if u arent doing anything but running. i think ud be game-ended even if u were a normal voidal mage. actually now i think abt it, i think ud be worse-off as voidal mages cant wear armor to mitigate strikes w/ swords or maces (well armor will dampen the severe effect of maces. will still fk u up

this is kinda my point. a lot of the time as a void mage with kani, you'll either be in a situation where casting void magic is useless because you're better off using kani or a weapon (the flamethrower moment), or you're in a situation where having kani and being buff doesn't actually matter but you still have to cast twice as long to do a ranged effect (if they didn't move for the double the duration of casting a t5 spell, they deserve what they get, and kani wasn't the breaking point lmao). the armour also wouldn't help that much in this exact situation. if we assume it takes them two emotes to run up to you and conk you on the head, then you're either injured (void mage, assuming you didn't run) or your casting was interupted and you wasted your time (kani mage with some armour), and can't use your kani because you're armoured, so you're functionally a normal guy with an alchemy firebomb that takes six extra emotes. of course, the biggest winner here would be a scion, who is armoured and casts normally.

 

 

24 minutes ago, shartings said:

and no, u can cast magic in plate-armor w/ continous resonance; voidal lore even states that u'll have difficulty using a weapon like a broadsword and can only wear gambeson if ure just a normal poop mage. if it was a 1v1, i can see the doubled emotes being worse, but if it's in a group crp fight (like most things are), ud be surprised of what u can pull off. keep in mind that -- barring t5 spells -- u can move in crp

if you can, i'd say you should add that to the continuous resonance feat redlines, because that's not the read i get. let's take a look at the scion lore, as a quick aside;

To begin, one’s Voidal Poisoning would weaken. Stamina and strength return to the absolute maximum, the peak of the descendant’s race. This cannot be modified by any means magical or alchemical, given the enduring presence of their voidal connection, even if weakened. Yet, this does not free them of their burden. The Voidal Poisoning experienced by a user is mild, albeit still there. Wearing more than half-plate, a Scion would find themselves far more quickly exhausted, and unable to cast magic.

so scion lore states, in brief, you have full strength and whatevs but still can only wear up to half-plate, for balance. i think this is a much more reasonable change to make, and should probably also be applied to kani.

and yeah, you can move when you cast, but i don't think the movement chart has been updated since the combat rp rules update, because the distances seem strange to me in conjunction with it.



this might need an update, i don't know.

 

 

30 minutes ago, shartings said:

ill talk with the people who helped bring the issues up to me, and see what conclusion we come up to, im kinda leaning to 1 slot imo

i'd just add a couple redlines to bar any future concerns, namely limiting void users with continous resonance to half-plate. using armour is outside of the spirit of kani anyway.

[ronin_champloo 5951]

wtf scions have peak str ?