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Large scale CRP


Tide1
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This won't be a very long post. The other day I believe a 30v40 CRP scenario was voted for by defenders. This is just trolling when you realize you're about to loose. [It always gets voided]

 

However I do wish to know if there have been ANY successful attempts at CRP at this scale ever since the rule was released, or if it has all been voided every single time. Writing on the wall tells me that this rule is dysfunctional. 

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I don't think there's ever been CRP on that scale on LOTC outside of events because the playerbase lacks the constitution for it. 50 v 50 CRP fights were done on Runescape RP rather frequently - all warclaims were done in CRP and it lasted upwards 12 hours. Best way to handle it is to break it up into small parties that compete in CRP for sections of buildings.

You are correct though, in saying that calling CRP is a troll. Staff brought this upon themselves by removing the raid cap in the rules; this would have prevented the 30 v 40 sessions you're describing in the first place.

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Only within the apparatus of events. 

We as a community aren't really equipped to handle such large clashes in RP, mostly due to realistic time constraints. What I find strange though is that these skirmishes of upward of 70 people never used to be allowed without the proper planning. Before every war on LoTC became a world war, we'd often see entire warclaims between orc clans and competing human vassals with 25 players or less on either side. These were actually quite manageable - even with Nexus - due to the simple fact that staff and players were able to plan for them, and the numbers weren't grossly inflated with banned alts and people with no IC stake in the conflict hopping in because they're bored. 

I personally think we need to go back to the old system of actual large scale battles not requiring 100v100 to constitute a warclaim, so that if PvP is necessary it can be facilitated in its proper environment without being nearly as disruptive as last night. I also think if small scale battles were normalised again we'd actually have room to coordinate more efficient CRP as is done from time to time in places like World of Warcraft and Runescape RP circles. 

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32 minutes ago, Tide1 said:

This won't be a very long post. The other day I believe a 30v40 CRP scenario was voted for by defenders. This is just trolling when you realize you're about to loose. [It always gets voided]

 

However I do wish to know if there have been ANY successful attempts at CRP at this scale ever since the rule was released, or if it has all been voided every single time. Writing on the wall tells me that this rule is dysfunctional. 

 

I do think that most of this is being caused by the people who call for CRP when obviously the numbers aren't fit for it and it would be an unorganized CRP; which inevitably leads to the decisions for straight up PVP so no one's time is wasted and for the RP efforts that have been put into organizing the entire conflict. In these situations when there are so many people involved it shouldn't just be voided but resolved with the most logical mechanic; which is PvP. CRP is just too time-consuming and the chance that it is going to be voided is just 100% because of the time it takes to let this happen. 

 

It is also very clear to me that people presume CRP to go fluent when there will also be a lot of discussions involved about possible powergaming in the LOOC-chat et cetera. The more emotes, the more discussions, the more time that is wasted on both sides of the conflict and it will once again just lead up to it being voided at the end of the day.

 

I think we can all learn a lesson from a situation like this when there's above 50 people involved and when people do not want to have their time wasted for a situation that is going to be inevitably voided by an admin anyway. 

 

For the people who like to have their time wasted on hours of CRP in a 30v40 and enjoy discussing emotes in LOOC for hours:

 

take the loss in PvP and have some proper sportsmanship OR:

Spoiler

Cry About It Andrew Tate GIF - Cry About It Andrew Tate GIFs

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, The King Of The Moon said:



We as a community aren't really equipped to handle such large clashes in RP, mostly due to realistic time constraints. What I find strange though is that these skirmishes of upward of 70 people never used to be allowed without the proper planning. 
 

It happened multiple times in 2013 before the server introduced pvp outside of warclaims and to some extent worked better than it would now. We've become too accustomed to pvp now, however, to ever return to those days and people who call CRP on a mass fight like this are genuinely just playing for the roleplay as a whole to be voided. 

 

I don't even find events with more than 20 people to be that incredibly fun, even with a numbering system, but at least its one sided then. I genuinely don't think a system to make a 30v30+ run smoothly is remotely possible with the play to win mentality that plagues the server nowadays. 

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3 hours ago, rukio said:

It happened multiple times in 2013 before the server introduced pvp outside of warclaims and to some extent worked better than it would now. We've become too accustomed to pvp now, however, to ever return to those days and people who call CRP on a mass fight like this are genuinely just playing for the roleplay as a whole to be voided. 

 

I don't even find events with more than 20 people to be that incredibly fun, even with a numbering system, but at least its one sided then. I genuinely don't think a system to make a 30v30+ run smoothly is remotely possible with the play to win mentality that plagues the server nowadays. 

lol PVP was a thing since launch day in 2011. It was the unwritten default in Aegis (outside of racial capitals, where PVP was turned off) and the explicit default for most of Asulon

 

They had RP default for a few months from late Asulon to mid-Anthos, and then it went back to PVP default for a while before it stayed as Defender for years. So no memes about RP Default being the "traditional" way and how PVP was "introduced" and ruined it, thanks.

 

That aside, I've absolutely never saw a CRP anywhere near that big on the server back then, and I still haven't outside of events (where you have the major advantages that the ST can fly about, emote for multiple people, and don't get stalled for hours by people claiming PG on them). And also those take place across spaces at least 20x bigger than a palace throne-room, where the chatspam alone, even beyond waiting for emotes, LOOC clarifications, PG, etc. would make it utterly impossible.

 

The people calling for it know that as well. When I was asking why tf would we go for a 6 hour moshpit nightmare that obviously would never resolve (even if it went ahead, it'd be voided by GMs after 3 hrs due to bickering, etc.), I got PM'd "trust". Do you think that guy meant "trust my amazing tricks to never lose a CRP"? Yeah nah, he meant "trust me; this'll resolve the situation and they'll **** off".

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Honestly these type of combat rp can happen but they shouldn’t be all in place and instead there should small squads that go in different places and do a small fight. For example; Two squads of 6 people fight at the entrance in a 6vs6 and another somewhere else etc... that could work but other than that I do agree we need pvp for a 30vs40.

 

edit: realised that @Islamadon said it better than I's

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Best CRP I've ever had was when a large group of Fenn and Mystics clashed in combat. This was all out of good faith to have some fun on both sides, having been some preparations upfront. Of course, this wasn't during a active war and both player bases agreed to the large fight. It is possible, yes. But not during wars like this.

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It simply cannot happen in a large scale, and the fact people say it has to be broken up into smaller fights proves such. Inherently people want to win fights, and will either powergame or stall emotes, dragging out the process, and every CRP fight I've been in since 2013 has proven such. Defender Default with a cap of 12 autoing to PvP Default is a great system. It's time efficient and relatively fair to all parties involved. 

 

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5 hours ago, Islamadon said:

I don't think there's ever been CRP on that scale on LOTC outside of events because the playerbase lacks the constitution for it. 50 v 50 CRP fights were done on Runescape RP rather frequently - all warclaims were done in CRP and it lasted upwards 12 hours. Best way to handle it is to break it up into small parties that compete in CRP for sections of buildings.

You are correct though, in saying that calling CRP is a troll. Staff brought this upon themselves by removing the raid cap in the rules; this would have prevented the 30 v 40 sessions you're describing in the first place.

12 hours is out of the question ridiculous. Some of us work and have other obligations and are lucky to spend a couple hours a day on the server if that. This whole CRP rule essentially removes our ability to partake in any form of conflict unless we want it to be the only thing we do on LOTC that day.

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It's just a way of pissing off the aggressors 

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What's really funny to me is how quickly tones and attitudes changed. The obvious troll of "69 person CRP defender default," was almost instantly met with "Your terms are acceptable,". When the world's biggest brain IQ play was countered, ridiculous demands like "I want a list of everyone in your turn order from both Tornado and Hugh in the next 5 minutes or you're in trouble," and then "I'm not going to go through the effort of adding you on Discord."

 

I shouldn't have to explain or comment on how ridiculous a demand this was for either side and an obvious cop out from a Moderator who had no intention of honoring such a ridiculous request as a 69 player CRP fight, but had to find an excuse to NOT go ahead with it.

 

And then itdontmatta logged on and it somehow got even more comical. The pronouncement that any 'Haensers and Ferrymen,' would be banned in the next 5 minutes if they didn't leave was funny, but the list that he then produced was even funnier. I am a well known associate of Hugh and have been registered to the server and infrequently active since 2019 but since I had only been added to the region in the past few days I wound up on the list as an alt or a Haenser or a Ferryman. I would like to point out there is no rule stating that you have to be added to a region for x amount of days or else you're excluded from conflict roleplay with threat of a ban to back it up.

 

I find the entire situation and ruling comical, and anyone quoting 'cope and seethe' and screeching 'AVE ORENIA, GET OUTPLAYED,' - remember this when you get hit by the same freight train of stupid next time. It all comes around eventually, and I wouldn't wish a 69 player CRP on my worst enemy.

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I was a forum moderator during the last rules rewrite, but I fully support a cap on CRP, but it has to be a cap that takes into account the numbers of each side. I would implement a 15-person per side cap. If both sides have at least 15 people, it moves to PvP. 

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