Xarkly 12598 Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2022 A DISCUSSION ON MAP STORYLINES Spoiler What is a map? Mechanically speaking, we know it as our opportunity to have a fresh start, both in roleplay and as a community, where we revitalize our systems, our communities, and our passion for roleplaying on this server. Narratively, though, 'maps' have always been a bit lacking, and often for good reason. Crafting a history and storyline for a map, one which can flourish into an engaging narrative that moulds the experience of every player who interacts with it, is a colossal endeavour. From logistics, to manpower, to structure, there's so many moving parts that make it no surprise that we haven't seen even an attempt to tell the "story of a map" for probably over half a decade now, if not much longer. Instead, we're left with this status quo where we go through the motions of "oh, holy moly, disaster has struck! time to move!" yada yada, we settle on this new map that has little distinction from its predecessors other than biome layout, and thereafter our narrative experience is typically confined to player-player interactions and infrequent, self-contained eventlines of varying scope. With 9.0 planning now finally in the works, it seems like an ideal time to broach this long-obscured topic. Basically, I want to take this opportunity to try to exchange some ideas with the community about what a "map storyline" actually is, and how we can begin to approach such a massive project. Before we start, though, I just want to make two quick disclaimers. the first is that this thread isn't intended as a critique of the Story Team or Staff as a whole. Secondly, the ultimate goal here is to have a discussion -- while I am going to draw upon my own substantive experience as an ET in the past to justify my ideas and perspective, I'm not asserting that my approach is necessarily the right or only one. So, with that said, let's get into it. I'll break this thread down into four parts: (1) what a map storyline is; (2) the point of a map storyline; (3) the unique challenges posed by LotC as a storytelling medium; and (4) a structure for map storylines. I What is a Map Storyline? So, what do I actually mean when I say 'map storylines'? Well, on the surface, it seems pretty simple - a map storyline should tell the story of the map we're on, for the duration that we're on it. We shouldn't envision these storylines as a single eventline like the Inferi, Westerlands, or Scyfling, which are mostly self-contained and ran for just a month or two out of maps that ran for over eighteen months. Instead, I think a map storyline should be a series of eventlines that all relate to and derive from the same overarching story, but with different eventlines tailored for specific periods of the map and specific playerbases. So, for example, if - for argument's sake - the map's overarching narrative is something like some big war against the undead, derisive eventlines could be done for, say, Elvenesse, who have to contend against some necromancer commander who is particularly shrewd and cunning, whereas another eventline for Norland could feature an undead commander who is reluctant about his duties and prefers diplomacy. In tandem, all these eventlines together make up the narrative, coming together at certain climaxes for the whole server (i.e., major battles). We'll talk more about this in Part IV, but the point is that a map storyline should, from start to finish, tell the story of the map and everyone on it, both in terms of its history and eventlines that happen in real-time, both to give the map life and identity, and to drive roleplay and player engagement on the server. Some of you might take the view that 'grand narratives' like this which make the map memorable should be the product of players rather than Staff. After all, we often remember past maps for their massive wars, the rise and fall of whichever nation we enjoyed most, or maybe just the people we had around us at the time, rather than Staff-ran events, irrespective of their scope or quality. This view definitely isn't wrong, but I don't think it necessitates exclusivity, either. There's no reason why large-scale player narratives (wars being the best example) can't coexist with big eventlines as part of an overarching map storyline (like we sort of had on Atlas). Granted, it's important that Staff 'read the room' and don't interject eventlines at the wrong place at the wrong time. Even a great eventline might be eclipsed, ignored, or even outright unwelcomed if thrust upon playerbases when they're busy with a war. So, with that aside, we can look a bit more closely at what should make up a map storyline. I think three boxes ought to be picked, namely (a) the map's past/backstory, (b) the present/main story, and (c) the ending/exodus. A: The Past/Backstory The backstory is important for any kind of narrative, and this is especially true for a server like ours. Comprehension, engagement, and, most importantly, meaning, are the chief qualities that go into making people care about the story being told and get them wanting to get involved. Given some of the unique storytelling challenges LotC as a medium faces (more on this later), one of the best ways to do this is through slow exploration of a map's history or backstory. A tangible past is what gives life to a map, subtly transforming it from a mass of blocks and biomes to living and breathing environment, where things have happened, and will happen again. Ruins of long-lost civilizations, monuments to forgotten battles and tragedies, and fragments of ancient tales and fables are all ways in which the map itself can, through a resourceful "show, don't tell" approach, begin to engage and intrigue players. These clues shout proclaim loud and clear that there is a story to be discovered here, and so, as they always do, players band together to embark on expeditions to find the pieces of this puzzle, and RP is driven before a single event can often occur. Perhaps most importantly, though, is the build-up. Delving into the lost history of the land we settle on shouldn't just be an academic exercise -- it should actively allude to the overarching narrative that awaits players. Whether it's something like explorer stirring a slumbering and ancient threat, or unearthing an artefact or resource that draws undesired attention, the backstory should offer players glimpses of what is to come. Not only does it sow the seeds of a natural and engaging story, but it services the critical goal of driving RP outside of the events themselves, which is the main practical purpose of enhancing our roleplay experience with Staff-ran events. B: The Present/Main Story Obviously, the meat and potatoes of a map narrative should be the eventlines that actually compose the narrative. Against the backdrop of the past (which should remain an integral aspect of the narrative even in it's later stages), the 'present' aspect, or the actual content of the narrative, should kick off shortly into the map, and it should mostly be a slow-burn. Whether it's plots to return Lord Voldemort, or the rediscovery of the One Ring, you get the idea -- built on the basis built on the backstory, some catalyst like this kicks off the main story of the map narrative that lasts throughout the map. When I say that, though, it's important to note that we're not talking about some massive event every weekend -- like I said, it should (for the start, at least) be a slow-burn, allowing for natural lapses for large periods of time in which some of the eventlines I spoke about above can happen, and to take a backseat to more pressing player-player interactions, so that the narrative doesn't overstay its welcome or burn itself out. And so, the narrative should be a looming shadow, always there and with a tangible presence, but strategically non-intrusive as dictated by the server's other events and climate. It should focus on smaller and engaging eventlines during down-time, and ramping up to big climaxes when appropriate. The best example that comes to my mind (though it's far from perfect) is the Vaeyl Order on Atlas, where it had multiple phases throughout the map -- there were big climaxes set months apart, such as the Battle of Poppy Hill or the Siege of Lasthope with massive player participation, but in between these were smaller eventlines characterised by character-based, exploration, and lore-building interactions (i.e., the Darkways, the Archive, Thandvar, etc.) in a way that tried not to overtly interfere with the rest of the map. C: The End/Exodus Lastly, a map narrative should include a natural 'end', or, in other words, provide a plausible reason as to why the Descendants depart the map in a way that forms a satisfying conclusion to the story being told until that point. This doesn't have to be the super stale sudden apocalypses that we all tend to roll our eyes at, but instead can take any number of other creative forms - maybe the narrative results in the discovery of a new and richer land across the seas. It doesn't really matter, and I needn't harp on this point for long because it's pretty self-explanatory but a satisfying and well-told story should include a good ending. Alrighty, so that's a run-down of what a map storyline should roughly be and the theoretical bases it should cover. Now, let's talk about why any of this is worth the hassle in the first place. II What's the Point? So, what’s the big idea? As a lot of you will know, any large-scale eventline is really difficult to pull off, so a map narrative, encompassing multiple of these eventlines under the same umbrella, constitutes a colossal logistical and story-telling challenge, the likes of which we’ve never really seen done even half-right before. So, in light of this, why should we bother with a map eventline? What’s the big benefit? Why don’t we just stick to the status quo with a few random self-contained eventlines scattered about maps? I think there’s three main reasons. We Should Always Aim For Better The first is a bit of a wishy-washy philosophical one, but I believe we should always strive for better. We have had some successful large narratives in recent years (albeit none with the resources or planning to qualify as a map narrative), so with a bit of actual passion and intent from ST, I think the possibility for a storytelling experience of this degree is definitely there, and a map with a successfully-executed map storyline has the potential to define itself as one of our best maps to date that will achieve the same nostalgic status as some of the all-time beloved eventlines of the past. The Ultimate RP Supplement Building on this, the second reason is based on the well-established idea that an eventline worth its salt creates and drives RP beyond the events themselves. Briefly put, an eventline should drive players to RP amongst themselves to explore, prepare, etc. based on the eventline or in anticipation of its next instalment. Explore a ruin looking for secrets, prepare a defence against a coming attack, or recruit other players or factions to achieve a goal. Aside from the storytelling experience itself, this is, in my opinion, the grand practical purpose of the ST on the server. Eventlines are the best supplement to player RP, and so a map storyline would seem to be the perfection of this idea, driving engaging RP in verses throughout the entire map. A Map’s Identity Lastly, I think a good storyline is an integral part of a map’s identity. What is the point of us moving map every 18-30 months? I think the likeliest answer is for that feeling of a new experience, a clean slate, a fresh and re-energising chapter. Map transition is often the rallying cry for staff and player groups alike to try out new systems and new ideas, so, overall, I think a new map represents the desire to grow and improve. So, our narratives should be no exception when it comes to the overall idea of what a map should be. It defies this logic that our approach to new maps to forego a storyline to accompany them. In a broader sense, I also think it’s what makes maps special and memorable asides from player activities. It’s what gives a map identity, and gives its terrain, regions, and biomes - irrespective of their quality - life and significance. III The Difficulties With LotC We've concerned the what and the why, so now the big question is the how. ...But before we can get to that, I think it's important that we acknowledge that LotC, as a massive Minecraft roleplaying server, presents some very unique challenges for storytelling. I think this is best observed in acknowledging that in large narratives, Staff have precious few tools to control pacing. In a novel, film, series, or most other storytelling mediums, the author immerses us in their universe and engages us in their tale with carefully crafted chapters, designed to take us by the hand slowly through the beats of the story. The intended effect of this is to slowly build an understanding of the setting, plot, and characters without being overwhelmed. However ... this doesn't exactly translate onto large eventlines on LotC. While we, too, are trying to tell a fantasy epic to hundreds of people, the issue is that we have to tell our story to all these people at the exact same time. With a book, movie, or whatever, you can explore the story at your own pace, moving through the episodes or chapters whenever suits you. If a new reader wants to experience it, they can just pick up chapter one whenever they want. Obviously, we don't have that option. If you're a new/returning/previously uninvolved player, the ST can't rewind the clock and re-do the earlier events or eventlines of the map storyline just for them. If you want to get involved (and the aim should be to get every player, or at least playerbase, involved), then you have to jump in at whatever point in time the narrative happens to be at. This is like watching Attack on Titan for the first time in Season 3 after the Marley reveal, or beginning the Harry Potters series half-way through the Order of the Phoenix. while, in theory, you can be brought up to speed about what's happening, you'll almost certainly be left wondering "wait, who's that character?" or "why are we fighting this guy?". On a more fundamental level, you're also just not experiencing the story in the way in which it was intended by the writer. The result is like a major exposition dump. Because there's no going back to the start of an eventline once it's begun, players can often face a steep barrier to get involved in a meaningful way compared to the players who've been there from the start. It doesn't cultivate a natural engagement, and can just discourage people. So, this is the main unique challenge that storytelling on a roleplay server presents, and it's important for us to be aware of this for the next section, where we talk about the how of map narratives, including how to work around this roadblock. IV How We Can Structure Narratives I've rambled a lot about what a map storyline should be, why we should do them, and some of the challenges we'd face, so now let's talk about how we could actually do them. Based on my time as an ET - from about 2018 to 2021, in particular specialising in large-scale eventlines - I've come to piece together a few factors that I think could formulate a basis through which we could approach a project like a map storyline. Before getting into that, though, I think it's important to draw attention to the more 'human' element that these kinds of projects are always going to be at the whim of Staff at the time, and real-life time constraints. While these are relevant considerations in pretty much anything on this server, their role is exacerbated because of the fact that a map storyline is bound to the length of the map, which tend to last at least eighteen months, with each map getting longer. We can't really do anything about that much, so, even though it's wishful thinking, for now let's just proceed on the presumption that Staff reasonably has its shit together and ST tackles the map storyline as a joint and organised project. So, with this presumption, I'm going to finish off by speaking about two really important ideas for making map storylines possible: (a) the need for a simple concept, and (b) eventlines within the narrative. A: The Simple Concept In the last Part, I spoke about large eventlines being difficult for new/returning/uninvolved players to start participating in after it's already started. This is because the players that have been there from the start have been - at the proper pace - introduced to the plot, setting, characters etc., whereas this hypothetical newer player has to learn all of this in one big and uninviting exposition dump that grows worse the longer an eventline goes on. So, this is massively exacerbated for a map storyline ... which is why it might help if the overarching story is grounded in a very simple concept. Aengudaemons, primordial colossi, and plagues might sound all well and good on paper, but the fact seems to be this: the more complicated an eventline is, the more inaccessible it is. This is true irrespective of the quality of the eventline. Instead, if we intend to tell our story to a larger audience (again bearing in mind the critical point that each 'chapter' can only be told once), then simple concepts seem far better suited. What do I mean by a 'simple concept', then? Generally speaking, established fantasy norms make themselves pretty ideal here, but as a rule of thumb, if you can't summarise the gist of the eventline in a small sentence, it's probably too complicated for the whole server. An undead incursion, a barbarian horde, the invasion of a foreign empire, the awakening of an ancient monster - stuff like this is all pretty understandable and accessible. Our hypothetical new player needs minimal, if any, information in order to participate in any of the bigger climaxes or understand what the general premise is, instead of any philosophically-charged Aengudaemon or incomprehensible Mathic Age stuff. The foundations of the eventline, its skeleton, or in other words its most basic premise, needs to be easily understood and communicated because of the theory that an ST can only tell each chapter once, and if you miss chapter one, then you're going to fall behind. At this point, you're probably thinking, "Undead? Barbarians? Seriously, ten years into LotC, and we can't come up with something more creative?", and you definitely have a point. The idea is that the base concept is super simple - and, for lack of a better word, conforms to a well-understood trope - so that people can jump into the big events without feeling like they're missing essential plot details, but this base concept its expanded and layered in characters, cultures, and activities in what we'll talk about next - eventlines within the narrative. B: Eventlines Within the Narrative I already touched on what this is earlier, but the idea is that a map storyline isn't just one singular eventline that goes on for ages. Instead, it's composed of multiple eventlines, all of which closely tie into the main overarching story - which is based on a simple concept discussed above for ease of accessibility - and are tailored for different playerbases at different points in time. I already used this example, but just to remind you now that we're actually talking about it, this idea of eventlines within the greater narrative could work out as something like this: A massive expansionist empire from across the sea lands on the continent. Its intention is to conquer the land, annexing all player nations and enslaving their populations. This is our simple, base concept that forms the overarching narrative. Every playerbase on the server can't be crammed into every event, because that would eviscerate any possibility to build beyond this base concept with things such as character, lore, activities, etc. Instead, the eventlines within the narrative begin to take place through the dispersal of this empire's battalions throughout the continent. For instance, one general takes his battalion to Elvenesse where he intends to establish a foothold. A group of STs then tailor an eventline around this particular battalion for the Elvenesse playerbase. Characters take shape from this general and his underlings, the culture and lore can unfold through battles, diplomacy, and other events alike. Needless to say, there should be a lot of nuance in terms of how the Elvenesse players interact with the invaders (i.e., they shouldn't be irredeemably evil). Sub-eventlines should also be able to occur within this eventline, for example with smaller groups within Elvenesse who find themselves involved in a particular facet of the eventline (maybe they infiltrate the enemy army to sabotage them). A player doesn't need to participate in these smaller world-building events in depth to still understand the basic premise of an invading empire. At the same time, other battalions can be sent across the map to spawn more eventlines (ran by different ST), and obviously they should all have some unique variation. The battalion sent to Norland, for instance, could be less militaristic, led by a general who might have some doubts about the morality of their empire and become more inclined towards diplomacy. Maybe he can even be convinced by the players to betray his empire and fight against them! Likewise, there should be similar variation across the other eventlines so that there's an element of uniqueness to all of it (not every eventline should be just another battalion, either). Then, with these eventlines engaging individual playerbases and tying them to the overarching story, they can be (rare) climaxes. These are the massive battles with 50-100 players that we're familiar with where, for example, the Descendants unite to fight off one of the armies at, say, Elvenesse or Norland. Again, even if a player hasn't engaged in any of the smaller eventlines, the simplicity of the concept allows them to easily participate in these bigger climaxes, as 'invading empire bad' is pretty universally comprehensible. This should be repeated in a couple of phases, but not the same thing each time. Maybe in one phase that general who turned cloak has to be supported as his homeland sends reinforcements to take him out, or a royal from the imperial homeland with a unit of battlemages boasting unique and dangerous powers that could turn the tide of the war. So, that's a pretty basic example that doesn't go into detail of other stuff I'd previously mentioned like the role the map's history should play, but things like that can be easily fit in. The point of the above is to demonstrate the concept of smaller eventlines within the narrative in operation. As an actual example, I'll again harken back to the Vaeyl Order, who were an antagonistic semi-undead force on Atlas with climatic battles that touched multiple playerbases, but inbetween these climaxes there were much smaller eventlines with event characters that built deep relationships with player characters and divulged the lore of the map and the eventline through exploration and character interaction. Wrapping Up Alright, well, there it is. In this thread, I've defined that I think map storylines should be the story of the map itself, encompassing the past, present, and conclusion, how they can be really cool resources to create a unique and memorable identity for a map that drives player roleplay, and how LotC can navigate the unique storytelling difficulties of a roleplay server and use approaches like the simple concept and eventlines within the greater narrative as a means to possibly achieve this massive achievement. Obviously, it's easier said than done, and my views have taken a lot of liberty in overlooking other potentially-massive barriers like Staff structure, support, unity, etc., but there's only so much we can really do about that. Like I said, and as the title implies, this is ultimately meant to be a discussion, so if you're reading this and have any thoughts of your own - whether independent, or as a commentary on some of the stuff I've written - then please do share them, and maybe we can attract some debate from the 9.0 Map Dev Team itself. Other than that, thanks for reading, and have a lovely day. 41 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnBaed 8942 Share Posted July 29, 2022 first 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeHaze. 2481 Share Posted July 29, 2022 I feel like most maps have a storyline that just ends up getting scrapped on launch so nothing ever happens. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unwillingly 11139 Share Posted July 29, 2022 3 minutes ago, DrakeHaze. said: I feel like most maps have a storyline that just ends up getting scrapped on launch so nothing ever happens. shoutout to the cheese mountain "events site" area that went completely unused by both players and staff for the entirety of almaris 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabby64 1295 Share Posted July 29, 2022 I think you should be lt with your writing skills ngl 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
livrose 1594 Share Posted July 29, 2022 i love conor schizo posts!!! +1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulReapingWolf 2258 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Huh. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmat 7461 Share Posted July 29, 2022 I'll be perfectly honest and say that I didn't read all of this post because I'm a lazy *******. I'd love the existence of an overarching map storyline to tie things together. Unfortunately, I don't believe there's enough of a unified vision for a long enough period of time on the ST to maintain it. There are too many people who would (and often do) seek to insert their own flavour into it or steer it in their own direction, regardless of what is best. It would inevitably descend into a grey, overly broad mass, rather than an engaging and unique tale. Perhaps the only way I can see this working without the project losing steam or falling apart is for one person to hold the reigns and drive it themselves. And that's just as impractical as the alternative. But maybe I'm just pessimistic, which is likely 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rilath 3719 Share Posted July 29, 2022 3 hours ago, Xarkly said: This is like watching Attack on Titan for the first time in Season 3 after the Marley reveal bro after the what :/// 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
argonian 12836 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Ultimately the problem with these major ET eventlines is you can just walk away, not care about what happens, and everything will still turn out fine. It makes it really hard to care after the first one or two you get involved in. The disconnect between the actual stakes and the portrayed stakes is just too big. But at the same time, the ET can't just nuke a nation or they'll piss off half the server. Even if they have a plan of nuking every nation Aegis Undead style, the nation that loses out first won't be happy. I thought the Westerlands was a good balance for this. Maybe it was different from an ET perspective, but for me it seemed like everyone, resident or visitor, was there to fight the undead hordes, and so the ET didn't have to pull their punches nearly as much as usual. People were expecting, and wanted, to be constantly harassed with attacks, to wake up and see a village burnt to the ground. The North of Aegis was a similar concept. For the first few months of the map, the Undead stayed almost exclusively there. You could easily wake up to your town being destroyed, but (1) that depended on player action and (2) you were most likely in the North just so you could fight the Undead anyway, so you rolled with it. I think we had similar stuff in Anthos (and even last map? I dunno I ignored the Inferi), but that felt wasted because you weren't hearing of nearby player settlements being destroyed, nor was there any chance for players to destroy outposts of the antag, except when it'd happen all at once as part of a scripted event. Again it just felt like something that could be totally ignored. Moving on, the climax: Done well: Aegis Undead, Anthos Harbingers. The Undead story culminated in nations capitals falling one after another like dominos, with major political upheaval as countries collapsed or capitals moved to other, safer towns. You had literal refugees and the world really felt like it was collapsing. Cool time. The Harbingers were totally different. They didn't didn't destroy nearly as much (although they did kill a couple notable cities); Anthos just kinda got deleted once we got the Fringe because of performance and we were bored of it. But we did get to literally invade Hell, and that was really cool. What was nice about it though again was the dynamism. You had these mob-spawners sending waves of mobs at you, so you'd push them back and quickly erect a stone wall to keep the ground you'd won. Recover and charge over it, destroy some mob-spawners, build a new forward outpost. It was nice determining our own progress. Both of them had their own apocalyptic ends. Next time I'd like both tbh. Have the Antag start off in the "danger zone" of the map destroying shit there, and towards the end they bust out and start destroying player regions, nation capitals, like nobody's business. Do attacks with very little warning, maybe attack multiple settlements at once to spread the forces thin. And then when it comes down to the final conclusion as the world burns, we invade some shit to kill them off. But oh RIP, our map has been tainted and destroyed by evil forces, nothing will grow here any more, on to the next map. The end. The Inferi did kinda have an "invade Hell" ending, and it was a nice event over-all, but unlike the Undead or the Harbringers, they never really busted out of their corner of the map so they always felt totally irrelevant to me. And the final event was cool, but ultimately it felt overly dramatised for what you actually felt and experienced as a player. You had no hordes rush you in PVE, you didn't have famous settlements get wiped away across the map, and unless you were from that shitty little island they were on, you probably didn't really care or notice that it fell. It was this huge big world-ending, uh, ending to an antagonist that felt anything but world-ending. I mean there were even player wars going on right in the middle of it; that's how little people really cared. Also, having an antag like that not be the map-ending event feels really anti-climactic. And one last thing I touched on there: Have PVE ffs. The best parts of the Westerlands event lines were sweating like a madman as you fought horde after horde of mobs, seeing your friend on half a heart and rushing in to save him, before just barely escaping yourself. Seeing others pop around you, your numbers dwindling while the hordes never stopped coming. The Undead and the Harbringers too had lots of really fun PVE events. Sure CRP events are cool sometimes, but can we mix up the endless walls of text with mechanics for once? This *is* Minecraft. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
warlord of filth 7713 Share Posted July 29, 2022 everything @argoniansaid and more super dramatized server-wide events are corny. watching an ET cinematic rp infront of a ton of people is really not fun and often self absorbed. the aegis undead were so great because they were overpowered. the server is so obsessed with fair endings and balance that everything is so canned. legit feels like WWE sometimes. whereas in aegis, as mentioned above, the undead could and did roll up on towns and just destroy them in huge pve fights. there would be floating undead citadels that would encroach upon your small village: netherrack spreading like a virus. i have distinct memories of using cakes as medpacks because that predated Minecraft hunger bar. i didn’t experience the harbingers but from what I hear they had a similar gimmick, and were similarly powered up to make up for their smaller size. and of course im chief Westerlands shill: there’s some minor misconceptions when it comes to the wlands, mostly, we didn’t have a ton of ET support into late into the life of the Westerlands. we legitimately hunted mobs in the woods, did patrols by the sunless sanctum portal, and when Skylez started coming around he started doing our massive PVE fights for us. the whole “mordring invading the word through the sunless sanctum” was entirely pushed narratively by us to give us purpose and fulfill our niche if nights watch rp. by time I became king, rudi and ang got involved because I wanted to cooperate with ET / spooks to create something special. were there not special actors at play I think it could’ve been something even more special than it was ! nevertheless, I bring that story of the wlands up because 9 times out of 10 players will make their own fun and only a select group of people who really care about lore will care about storylines. overall, people want something to fight and they talk about. they’re high maintenance, oftentimes larp, and rarely done correctly. a solid PVE world event will always be more fun than some weird dialogue and crp. manpower is also an issue in that this is a hobby for most people and this server isn’t a video game. so developing these super in depth map storylines is sometimes strenuous and just not fun, especially when players are only so clever to murder everything in their path ! ! 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarkly 12598 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 13 hours ago, un-w said: shoutout to the cheese mountain "events site" area that went completely unused by both players and staff for the entirety of almaris Yeah, stuff like this has definitely become a bit of a meme, and it's a bit of an unfortunate staple of the map development process since Arcas -- areas are designed by a couple of ET but from stuff like lore being scrapped, builds being unavailable, or the ET themselves just not being there when the map launch actually rolls around, I don't think there's been a single instance where these areas have launched as intended. Although it's taken close to two years, I'm glad Dark Harbour seems to be getting used now. Obviously, this issue is to do with Staff structure and map development process, which is something that I think can only be properly addressed with a team wide, and heavy Administration involvement (though that probably has its own pitfalls ...) so that visions of a map storyline aren't confined to a couple of people, and instead something the entire Staff can carry throughout the map. That seems to be the only real way to fix problems like these, which are a product of a small number of ST who lack the resources (whether through their own fault or others) to pull the project off. 4 hours ago, argonian said: Ultimately the problem with these major ET eventlines is you can just walk away, not care about what happens, and everything will still turn out fine. It makes it really hard to care after the first one or two you get involved in. The disconnect between the actual stakes and the portrayed stakes is just too big. But at the same time, the ET can't just nuke a nation or they'll piss off half the server. Even if they have a plan of nuking every nation Aegis Undead style, the nation that loses out first won't be happy. Yeah, for sure this is a valid point. A part of me, though, feels inclined to say that a lot of eventlines are robbed of consequences because they are just eventlines -- because they're just one part of the map, a month or two out of the two-year run-time, they lack the gravity and significance to inflict consequence on nations and other player groups. I don't think the same necessarily has to be true for map storylines. Because I describe these storylines as such a major part of the map's identity and functioning, that should in theory give them the weight they need to start exacting some meaningful consequences. Of course, we still have to navigate the usual pitfalls of player interaction and the practicalities of taking player land, but I don't think that's by any means impossible, and I frankly think the community is kind of looking for some would definitely bite at the prospect of something new and exciting, especially from the storytelling department. But yeah, TLDR, I think the status of map storyline as the narrative pinnacle of the map, fully backed and executed by Staff, can give it the leeway to look at real consequences. Other eventlines are just that -- they're random eventlines, usually ran by 1 or 2 ETs. 1 hour ago, space warlord organ trader said: everything @argoniansaid and more super dramatized server-wide events are corny. watching an ET cinematic rp infront of a ton of people is really not fun and often self absorbed. Completely valid, but I think that this relates more to the merits and skills of individual ET rather than some of the broader roadblocks for map storylines that I talk about in this post. Ultimately, this again just falls to the internal operations of the Story Team, and I decided it was probably better not to embark on a critique of the Team, their experience with large-scale eventlines, and how to carry them out from the perspective of an individual ET. I think it definitely is possible, though, and again it requires a lot of 'reading the room' and knowing the climate of the server when it comes to designing and executing your events -- for example, it's abundantly clear to me that the playerbases at large are pretty tired of these blogpost text emoting in massive CRP battles (especially when not a lot of ET are equipped to deal with high emote loads in any kind of timely manner), whereas rewind to 2020, and people loved seeing an entire war played out entirely in CRP. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarkly 12598 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 56 minutes ago, space warlord organ trader said: the aegis undead were so great because they were overpowered. the server is so obsessed with fair endings and balance that everything is so canned. legit feels like WWE sometimes. whereas in aegis, as mentioned above, the undead could and did roll up on towns and just destroy them in huge pve fights. there would be floating undead citadels that would encroach upon your small village: netherrack spreading like a virus. i have distinct memories of using cakes as medpacks because that predated Minecraft hunger bar. Going back to what I said to James, I feel like a big part of this is because most "big" eventlines we see now are just eventlines that look big because there's not really much else going on story-wise. Ultimately, they're just an eventline without any special status, and it seems disproportionate that an eventline can destroy a nation or something like that. I'm not saying that it can't be done, it's just easy to see why it might be a difficult thing to justify mechanically. Outside of that, while I think NLs these days might genuinely be down for some more risk and consequence in events, I also think eventlines need to actually start deserving that risk - what I mean by this is that the eventline has to basically be good enough to warrant players to trust the Team enough for them to inflict these losses or consequences in a way that is narratively rewarding for them still, makes them want to participate, etc. I think the overall absence of meaningful eventlines in recent years reflects that most playerbases aren't willing to hitch their wagons to horses that they don't necessarily seem to have a whole lot of faith in. As far as map storylines are concerned, I think this could be addressed by the 'slow-burn' start I alluded to. In the earlier portions of the storyline, the relevant ET need to basically build up a level of trust and quality with the players they're dealing with, to the point where they create a relationship where the ET can essentially go "you know you can trust me to do my thing, and you'll get a great story". 9 hours ago, Rilath said: bro after the what :/// mikasa is freddy fazbear 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrawn 72 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Sounds amazing. Where do I sign up to help write all of this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arafel 107 Share Posted July 30, 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, argonian said: snip In Anthos, didn't the Adunian meatgrinder frontline against the Harbingers at Ard'Kerrack cause the entire event-line to get derailed and fall several weeks behind schedule, culminating in the rushed end of that map? Edited July 30, 2022 by Arafel 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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