Tide1 1593 Share Posted August 27, 2022 The way that staff approaches these things has definitely changed throughout the years. People have been banned indefinitely as their first offense. Bans that are rooted in speculation no less. Years ago these could have lasted one or two months. The atmosphere of the server has changed, and players easily exploit the volatility of Admins. The pandemic-inflated playercount lets them, at least they think, get away with it. Indefinitely removing one player out of three hundred shouldn't have an impact. Right? 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rukio 8910 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Instead of a slow, gradual shift from the culture the server had created, staff and admins have attempted to do an overnight change from what was to what is now considered acceptable. Bans are handed out for offenses committed months and years prior now. Those who are capable of leading are punished with a heavier hand than others to be an example. The issue is that this server is full of incompetent people who believe themselves better suited to lead than they are. By taking away the very few people capable of unifying a community and building up player bases you are leaving the server dull and anti-immersive for the majority. We go through this cycle every map. Admins/mods kill conflict, get rid of the people capable of driving a narrative, and then wonder why activity dips and why people feel unfulfilled by the server and roleplay as a whole. There is only so much tea sipping you can do. I also hate to hear the excuse of 'they were doing OOC' blah blah blah. No. If that was an actual issue the other side's leadership in every conflict would be banned as well. It is merely an effort to force a narrative onto everyone by killing the people capable of changing it. The future is not in lame stupid world events forced on us by the staff. Most players genuinely don't give a rats ass about most of the lore bloat. Instead, it lies in the story players themselves drive. I wish admins would realize this and stop punishing with insane ban lengths. 25 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laeonathan 3953 Share Posted August 27, 2022 There is something else in this regard that I really think that needs to be mentioned. I will not go into the Twi topic - I'm personally biased here because she's my friend. Regarding Liobiletti, Hugh and Ryan, Nectorist, KP: KP got banned after years of knowledge about him doing bad things. Nobody seemed to care. Okay, better late then never. Kinda weird though. Nectorist and Lionbiletti profitted from that, though haven't caused it. Nobody complained besides KP. Obviously. Though it still seemed like a power grab. Next, Lionbiletti basically lost his civil war to Hugh. He reported Hugh for racism. A long time friend of his - really? Let's say Hugh was actually racist - I do not know, I can't tell. But simply the fact that a person waits till it benefits them in mineman politcs is really weird. Same story with Ryan... If you think people are so bad, report them the moment you have evidence, but don't wait till it benefits you. 28 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rukio 8910 Share Posted August 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, Laeonathan said: If you think people are so bad, report them the moment you have evidence, but don't wait till it benefits you. Objectively I think if someone is reporting old stuff to punish someone they're now beefing with the moderator should inquire "Do you want to serve the same length ban they do, for harboring this?" (dependent on the severity, of course. I'm talking minor stuff, not the big TOS things.). If they say no there shouldn't be a ban. If they say yes, have them be banned alongside their former friend or w/e that they're trying to shoot for the same duration. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug 1885 Share Posted August 27, 2022 i think more bans would be better for lotc (real) idk all those bans very well but rooting out bad apples has been long overdue, beyond just waiting for them to **** up while logged into the server; ooc schemers, discord plotters, and the like are scummy too many weirdos who ride the line of the rules constantly to derive their fun out of causing ooc trouble with others and get away with it and then start whining when theyre caught and the rules aren’t specifically like “please don’t scheme in a obsessive way to get back at other players for ooc stuff” im all for the badmin hegemony, unless they attack me 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamikazeReaper 400 Share Posted August 27, 2022 35 minutes ago, Laeonathan said: There is something else in this regard that I really think that needs to be mentioned. I will not go into the Twi topic - I'm personally biased here because she's my friend. Regarding Liobiletti, Hugh and Ryan, Nectorist, KP: KP got banned after years of knowledge about him doing bad things. Nobody seemed to care. Okay, better late then never. Kinda weird though. Nectorist and Lionbiletti profitted from that, though haven't caused it. Nobody complained besides KP. Obviously. Though it still seemed like a power grab. Next, Lionbiletti basically lost his civil war to Hugh. He reported Hugh for racism. A long time friend of his - really? Let's say Hugh was actually racist - I do not know, I can't tell. But simply the fact that a person waits till it benefits them in mineman politcs is really weird. Same story with Ryan... If you think people are so bad, report them the moment you have evidence, but don't wait till it benefits you. Lion asked for the perma ban Nect however knowingly and accepted what would be the outcome from sitting and chatting with TOS banned players while most of us here think the admins should not have the power to stalin over our none LOTC discords channels and chats, they made the statement they will i have no clue what happened with hugh nor ryan 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorweenieTheJedi 889 Share Posted August 27, 2022 don't play anymore, didn't read the post, but orlanth's right ong 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloonkey 147 Share Posted August 27, 2022 3 hours ago, Laeonathan said: The Server population has been the same as always. Unless you count the covid times as normal. I disagree. LOTC still has a good population but it's a lot less centralised than before. The community spirit once held by these former leaders is extinguished, giving the server a much quieter, almost anarchic feel. Don't get me wrong, it's still huge, but it definitely feels different to back when I last played two years ago. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffsanta 960 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Also the application system - too much pending when it could be accepted So fear not players of LOTC - I have infiltrated the application team to propose reforms o7 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
esterhase 164 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Most administration ban reforms are confused and rehashed ideas that barely worked for the previous administration's playerbase, let alone today's. The butch window-dressing of terms like "indefinite" and "administrative", the non-negotiables and red-lines may make the administration feel butch and in control, but it makes no difference to the players' perception of them. Until there is a behaviour policy (and admins that actually want one) that is flexible, rational and simple enough to cater towards a community the staff are part of instead of a community that the staff are moderating, people will keep being indefinitely banned for the vaguest of reasons. Any spreadsheet boxtick exercise will be delegated to admins to handle with the ease of an indefinite plan as heavyweight policies end up punishing moderators as they add more stress and workload that can easily be shirked by throwing cases upwards. If a server promotes indefinite bans, how confident is the server in helping the community learn from the mistakes of their peers? Threads like this don't happen because they see a player punished for a mistake and agree with the rationale. The server should have a policy that promotes enjoying the server and aims to cull the defiance and disruption that occurs through these disjointed and jarring policy schizophrenes. There is a huge social cost to using indefinite bans more often and only strengthens the divide between moderator and player. This obviously runs counter to developing and growing a community, let alone a community that has faith in the people running it. It has been nine months since the safety policy was promised. This is not just a cudgel to beat the Dusks of the server, but a necessary tool to change server culture into something more positive via a clear and concise community-facing reform. You can try to ban the bad apples, but it wins you a lot fewer friends than creating a culture where they don't grow. Do the players the kindness of making systems that promote a good server culture instead of trying to ban people that don't, it'll be a lot less stressful for everyone involved. But, uh, you're all young adults trying your best, right? That's why you're taking the easy way out and just gassing people post-fact without any serious changes in how these players are coming to the fore in the first place? Get it together. @rukiohiiiiiiiiii!!!!! ;3c 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergisala 2794 Share Posted August 27, 2022 7 hours ago, Laeonathan said: Regarding Liobiletti, Hugh and Ryan, Nectorist, KP: KP got banned after years of knowledge about him doing bad things. Nobody seemed to care. Okay, better late then never. Kinda weird though. Nectorist and Lionbiletti profitted from that, though haven't caused it. Nobody complained besides KP. Obviously. Though it still seemed like a power grab. Next, Lionbiletti basically lost his civil war to Hugh. He reported Hugh for racism. A long time friend of his - really? Let's say Hugh was actually racist - I do not know, I can't tell. But simply the fact that a person waits till it benefits them in mineman politcs is really weird. Same story with Ryan... This is completely correct. Without trying to justify anything that these banned players did, it is obvious that these bans have been politically weaponized: - Firstly, by Lionbileti, who had a friend of him show to the Staff the evidence that they had against KP in the very precise moment that Nectorist announced his intention to assume the throne of Oren, which caused KP to be banned from the server, facilitating Nectorist to assume the NLship of Oren. - Secondly, by Lionbileti, who precisely grabbed all different pieces of evidence in a very manipulative way to make a report against Hugh. Without attempting to justify anything...does anyone seriously believe that Lion would have reported the evidence regarding Hugh if Acre had never rebelled against Oren? It's the same thing as with KP, that is, a politically weaponized ban. Also, and changing the topic of discussion, I don't know why Alty is currently banned, but if it is for simply the allegedly racist messages he once sent in CMU Discord three years ago, I don't think he should remain banned for that. A lot of people have made worse comments than those in Discord and have never been punished in such a severe way. P.S.: As for the population decline, I personally believe that Oren's destruction has had a lot to do with it, because by destroying one of the main human nations and causing a balkanization (and therefore, a forced extreme decentralization) what happens is that its playerbase ends up being so split up that makes it extremely difficult to roleplay. In other words, with this outcome (nation's destruction and balkanization) we basically end up with lots of groups of people that are very small and this makes it very difficult to be able to actually properly roleplay in those places. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmiliainWonderland 1526 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Buffsanta said: Also the application system - too much pending when it could be accepted So fear not players of LOTC - I have infiltrated the application team to propose reforms o7 Doing God's work, llir. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyl 1567 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Server activity always goes down in august/September due to back to school. Also another reason is the loss of Oren, not necessarily the people getting banned themselves. Every time Oren dies the server sees a drop in players. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbog 446 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Buffsanta said: Also the application system - too much pending when it could be accepted So fear not players of LOTC - I have infiltrated the application team to propose reforms o7 as usual we see the goated boys in blue coming in to save the day (i am unbiased) but yeah real talk, you seem some pretty crazy stuff as a janny probably taints my view a bit to the cries of the common man or whatcha wanna call it though i do agree with the repeated issue of these complaints and evidence that led to bans (be it TOS, toxicity, or otherwise) only miraculously surfacing when it benefits another player(s) - especially when these player's actions have been discussed in hushed-whispers-sans-evidence until their old gang narks for mineman political clout just gets the old noggin' joggin' 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaladin Stormblessed 635 Share Posted August 27, 2022 One massive issue I have seen over and over with the system of decision making of the staff here is that the defendant side is NEVER approached and getting a chance to defend themselves or giving a testimony. I literally had few friends that were just banned all of the sudden, and they didn't even know what is it about. If staff wish to ban someone, especially perma bans and ones that are for months, it is the staff obligation to approach the player about this before making a decision. Up until now, I saw several cases that it wasn't the case, and 0 cases that it was the case. I think it shouldn't be even a thing to ban someone for more then a week, let alone permaban, without having the respective staff member approaching them specifically, asking for their input and what they wish to be said for the protocol regarding the case. I have seen it with TOS bans. I have seen it with permabans that weren't TOS. I have seen it when good and valid roleplay was voided by ST members. IMO, it shouldn't be allowed to even ban someone without going through this procedure of giving the person a chance to literally defend themselves. I 1000% agree with this post. Even regarding me, I have been few times already forced to contact staff regarding being all of the sudden banned, or that a book I wrote in roleplay was voided without even being approached, while I have logs and screenshots of every single thing to prove that the roleplay is valid. So many false bans and punishments can be prevented 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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