The Whitewashing of Un'Satum

[Privet 1840]

1 hour ago, Burnsider said:

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The last two comments are great examples about why people have always had issues with the orc community in and around Krugmar. 

 

"Burnsider, stop gaslighting people. Saying 'They can go **** themselves. Un'Satum orcs aren't orcs. They never will be' isn't toxic."

 

It's just being overly sensitive to what is just a passionate mald from one person, it is not as if they talk like this all the time. People flip out sometimes, so what. Nobody is going to tell an orc coming from Un'Satum that they are not welcome, quit concern trolling.

[Jihnyny 2567]

2 hours ago, Burnsider said:

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The last two comments are great examples about why people have always had issues with the orc community in and around Krugmar. 

 

"Burnsider, stop gaslighting people. Saying 'They can go **** themselves. Un'Satum orcs aren't orcs. They never will be' isn't toxic."

 

Spoiler

Un’Satum are not orcs in the eyes of traditional and true orcish culture. Please do not comment of things you do not understand.
I also am surprised to see a forum moderator speak about OOC toxicity in a forum post about roleplay instead of pulling into the krugmar discord or bringing it up to NL’s and or the player themselves… it seems quite immature.
The only thing that might brush toxicity is the fact he said they can ‚go **** themselves.’ 
ofcourse, it could be phrased better and the only reason it seems toxic is because you might be sensitive to cuss words and view them as instant aggression.

And idk where you gained ‚gaslighting’ from lol. The whole comment seems to be nothing but your own personal hatred for the orcish community, which clearly shows bias and i do hope you wont be involved in anything relating to this what so ever. 

 

i wish best of luck to Un’Satum, the based spooks and ofcourse our very own krugmar in the conflicts that are to come :)

WAGH

 

[Cloakedsphere 1462]

2 hours ago, Burnsider said:

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The last two comments are great examples about why people have always had issues with the orc community in and around Krugmar. 

 

"Burnsider, stop gaslighting people. Saying 'They can go **** themselves. Un'Satum orcs aren't orcs. They never will be' isn't toxic."

 

Spoiler

Also wrongfully accusing an entire community of this contributes to the poor reputation of said community. The individuals who have voiced their opinions of Un'satum are not orcs nor have they been for some time. If you were actively participating in Krugmar whether that is through discord or in game, you would've clearly seen that had not came from any of our chats nor do I approve of such chatter. The orc community knows my stance on toxicity towards other players and knows they'll rightfully be removed and their logs sent to administration to be dealt with. Otherwise, constant labeling of entire communities for the actions of individuals whom are currently not part of the community is just as toxic as anything they have said. 

Edit:

The individuals in the screenshots/chat logs that Qizu had posted amongst the Un'satum discord also belong to other communities such as celianor, nor'asath, balian, etc. Yet for what ever reason, perhaps because the player decided to make their name "Krugmenistan" you have decided to label the entire community of the orcs as something they're not.

 

[Tabby64 1295]

Spoiler

I see lots of crying in these comments and Its quite obvious there is a easy solution for both playerbases. The swift transition to making dwarven personas will mend these issues and create more sla... workers for our lord and savior @Nooblius. Please consider this before continuing on the Lord Of The Craft.

 

[Qizu 4037]

13 hours ago, Cloakedsphere said:

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Also wrongfully accusing an entire community of this contributes to the poor reputation of said community. The individuals who have voiced their opinions of Un'satum are not orcs nor have they been for some time. If you were actively participating in Krugmar whether that is through discord or in game, you would've clearly seen that had not came from any of our chats nor do I approve of such chatter. The orc community knows my stance on toxicity towards other players and knows they'll rightfully be removed and their logs sent to administration to be dealt with. Otherwise, constant labeling of entire communities for the actions of individuals whom are currently not part of the community is just as toxic as anything they have said. 

Edit:

The individuals in the screenshots/chat logs that Qizu had posted amongst the Un'satum discord also belong to other communities such as celianor, nor'asath, balian, etc. Yet for what ever reason, perhaps because the player decided to make their name "Krugmenistan" you have decided to label the entire community of the orcs as something they're not.

 

((I didn’t post anything lol)) 

[Burnsider 4542]

13 hours ago, Jihnyny said:

I also am surprised to see a forum moderator speak about OOC toxicity in a forum post about roleplay instead of pulling into the krugmar discord or bringing it up to NL’s and or the player themselves… it seems quite immature.

Spoiler

 

I am absolutely allowed to have my own opinions outside of my moderator position. I am voicing my opinion as a player who has played in Krugmar in the past and just decided to try orcs again in Un'Satum and discovered that I've been immediately whitewashed.

 

13 hours ago, Cloakedsphere said:

The individuals who have voiced their opinions of Un'satum are not orcs nor have they been for some time.

 

Yes, truly Krugmenistan has no role in what happens in Krugmar whatsoever and doesn't RP there.

 

 

 

15 hours ago, Privet said:

Nobody is going to tell an orc coming from Un'Satum that they are not welcome, quit concern trolling.

 

I mean, you guys literally just whitewashed every orc in Un'Satum...

 

13 hours ago, Jihnyny said:

Un’Satum are not orcs in the eyes of traditional and true orcish culture. Please do not comment of things you do not understand.

 

Then, help me understand. What is it that makes the orcs of Un'Satum "not orcs in the eyes of traditional and true orcish culture." Is it Un'Satum's devotion to the spirits that makes them different? Is it the fact that Un'Satum places a warchief above other orcs? Is it Un'Satum's hatred of voidal and dark magics? Is it Un'Satum's encouragement of the clan system? Is it Un'Satum's embracement of upholding the honor that Krug passed down to us?

 

Or is it just that you don't like Qizu and Creamy?

 

Cause I know it has nothing to do with us not speaking Blah. You guys have been very very very specific that no one is forced to speak Blah, right?

 

[Privet 1840]

18 minutes ago, Burnsider said:

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I am absolutely allowed to have my own opinions outside of my moderator position. I am voicing my opinion as a player who has played in Krugmar in the past and just decided to try orcs again in Un'Satum and discovered that I've been immediately whitewashed.

 

 

Yes, truly Krugmenistan has no role in what happens in Krugmar whatsoever and doesn't RP there.

 

 

 

 

I mean, you guys literally just whitewashed every orc in Un'Satum...

 

 

Then, help me understand. What is it that makes the orcs of Un'Satum "not orcs in the eyes of traditional and true orcish culture." Is it Un'Satum's devotion to the spirits that makes them different? Is it the fact that Un'Satum places a warchief above other orcs? Is it Un'Satum's hatred of voidal and dark magics? Is it Un'Satum's encouragement of the clan system? Is it Un'Satum's embracement of upholding the honor that Krug passed down to us?

 

Or is it just that you don't like Qizu and Creamy?

 

Cause I know it has nothing to do with us not speaking Blah. You guys have been very very very specific that no one is forced to speak Blah, right?

 

Spoiler

As I said before, whitewashing has been a historic fact of Orcish culture since the beginning of the server, what doesn't make Orcs from Un'Satum traditional orcs? No blah, putting other deific magics on the same level as shamanism, living outside of Krugmar, and causing conflict between orcs and other races without approval of the Rex (which again stems from the Petra and Balian conflict), which are all things orcs have been whitewashed for in the past. AGAIN you are only whitewashed after further developments occurred, though admittedly because Cloakedsphere wanted to give you guys a chance, not because of anything on my or any ex-orc players part.

 

Krugmenistan is wrong on the topic that nobody was forced to speak blah, as it was originally one of the main laws in the code of krug since at least 2013, "-As an Orc, you must use our tongue, and not the tongue of the foul Humans unless talking to filth"
 

Again, you are coming in uninformed or with biased information, and it is incredibly disappointing to see a longstanding moderator pull the victim card. Even in those same code of laws from 2013 whitewashes have always had the chance to return to Krugmar and prove they are worthy of being a considered an orc, freed of their status as a whitewash. "Whitewashes shall be reborn, killed, destroyed, and/or flattened" Perhaps if you wish to not be considered whitewash, you should do the roleplay required to be seen as an Orc amongst your peers.

 

REFERENCED "2013 LAWS OF KRUG":

Spoiler

 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Privet

[Cloakedsphere 1462]

3 minutes ago, Burnsider said:

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I am absolutely allowed to have my own opinions outside of my moderator position. I am voicing my opinion as a player who has played in Krugmar in the past and just decided to try orcs again in Un'Satum and discovered that I've been immediately whitewashed.

 

 

Yes, truly Krugmenistan has no role in what happens in Krugmar whatsoever and doesn't RP there.

 

 

 

 

I mean, you guys literally just whitewashed every orc in Un'Satum...

 

 

Then, help me understand. What is it that makes the orcs of Un'Satum "not orcs in the eyes of traditional and true orcish culture." Is it Un'Satum's devotion to the spirits that makes them different? Is it the fact that Un'Satum places a warchief above other orcs? Is it Un'Satum's hatred of voidal and dark magics? Is it Un'Satum's encouragement of the clan system? Is it Un'Satum's embracement of upholding the honor that Krug passed down to us?

 

Or is it just that you don't like Qizu and Creamy?

 

Cause I know it has nothing to do with us not speaking Blah. You guys have been very very very specific that no one is forced to speak Blah, right?

 

Spoiler

The problem you, a moderator, is seeing is an LotC problem and not one specific to just 1 group amongst it. I am truly disappointed in your undeniable bias in pointing the finger towards "all of krugmar" when in reality your problem lies with 1 individual player who is part of MULTIPLE communities on LotC. Before I was kicked from the un'satum discord without any explanation, your group has also labeled all of us as aggressive towards forcing individuals to use the language the orcs have or you wont be allowed to join the community. I will not say it hasnt happened to some players, but, since me joining the server in 2011 I have never once been told this or had anything put in my lap in the form of an ultimatum (do this or you wont join us) from the orc community. You are correct in your first statement even though I assume it was sarcasm but yes, that individual whom is on their path to honorary does not have any sway in the way the nation moves or operates. The character they're playing is a dark elf. The character they were actively playing before that was a high elf that is part of celia'nor. The screenshots you provided before were from balian's (I assume) discord. So why are you so hell bent in putting down the entire community of orcs when it is 100% clear that none of that has came from us. If you seem to think someone with a couple roles/being inside of a discord represents an entire community, then you should also shift your hate directly towards Celia'nor, Nor'asath, Balian, and what ever other discord he is in. Since that is what you seem to be basing your argument off of. 

The whitewashing of the settlement is not without reason and is very much within every cultural right of those within the main orc nation. Your leadership literally killed the oldest and most respected orc of the nation. Regardless if it were an accident or not, a simple "oops, my bad" wouldnt excuse anyone from such a thing in any culture in any setting. Yet it seems it has been taken as some OOC threat towards you guys when we have not done anything aggressive towards you. I have defended you guys for weeks, even before your settlement was accepted from these types of things happening and this is how we're repaid. I sat here and defended you guys even after both leaders of the new Un'satum settlement wrongfully took over 3,000 mina from the treasury to fund their new settlement on characters that would've never had access to that mina in the first place. You cannot sit here and expect every player to be respectful or inviting after doing such a thing, considering a majority of the players saw them take the mina from the nation and claim it as "payment for their services to the nation" and didnt see any results from their services and instead created heartache for many within the community.


I would like to say I was invited back soon after I chatted with qizu. But the fact still remains that this happened without reason.

 

[Burnsider 4542]

Spoiler

You two need to get your stories straight.

 

[Privet 1840]

2 minutes ago, Burnsider said:

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You two need to get your stories straight.

 

What in the **** is this cope? It's literally two perspectives, one from someone who has been separated from the orcs for around half a year (me) and literally the Rex of the Orcs, get over yourself.

[Sewer_Rat 528]

Quote

Then, help me understand. What is it that makes the orcs of Un'Satum "not orcs in the eyes of traditional and true orcish culture." Is it Un'Satum's devotion to the spirits that makes them different? Is it the fact that Un'Satum places a warchief above other orcs? Is it Un'Satum's hatred of voidal and dark magics? Is it Un'Satum's encouragement of the clan system? Is it Un'Satum's embracement of upholding the honor that Krug passed down to us?

 

Or is it just that you don't like Qizu and Creamy?

 

Cause I know it has nothing to do with us not speaking Blah. You guys have been very very very specific that no one is forced to speak Blah, right?

 

Spoiler

Okay so, as the author of this post, I am going to speak for myself and as to why I wrote this post. To answer your question, the post has been done not because any of us hold ooc spite towards the settlement of Un'Satum, and in fact as cloaked has stated before we make an emphasis on not tolerating toxicity towards other memebers of the community be it orcs, or any other community that we interact with. Now, to get back to the reasoning as to why the post was made, is that there was circumstance IRP that cloaked has outlined, that led to the creation of the post, mainly being with the death of a prominent figure of one of the oldest orcs. Therefore, as an orc, that has been taught and practically raised by him, it is only natural that my character, amongst other orcs would call to whitewash the settlement upon learning the news IRP from the events and people that transpired. Therefore, to answer your question, the post was made not because of any ooc spite or grudge towards the players, but because it was only the natural reaction of the characters upon finding out the death of a prominent figure.

 

On a separate note, I am more than open to discuss this with you, in more details, as the author of the post, to state my intentions clearly, to clear up any misunderstandings that you might occured, or to clear up any of the unpleasant notions, that are directed towards our community, with claims that all of this done via ooc spite.

 

[Qizu 4037]

28 minutes ago, Cloakedsphere said:

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The problem you, a moderator, is seeing is an LotC problem and not one specific to just 1 group amongst it. I am truly disappointed in your undeniable bias in pointing the finger towards "all of krugmar" when in reality your problem lies with 1 individual player who is part of MULTIPLE communities on LotC. Before I was kicked from the un'satum discord without any explanation, your group has also labeled all of us as aggressive towards forcing individuals to use the language the orcs have or you wont be allowed to join the community. I will not say it hasnt happened to some players, but, since me joining the server in 2011 I have never once been told this or had anything put in my lap in the form of an ultimatum (do this or you wont join us) from the orc community. You are correct in your first statement even though I assume it was sarcasm but yes, that individual whom is on their path to honorary does not have any sway in the way the nation moves or operates. The character they're playing is a dark elf. The character they were actively playing before that was a high elf that is part of celia'nor. The screenshots you provided before were from balian's (I assume) discord. So why are you so hell bent in putting down the entire community of orcs when it is 100% clear that none of that has came from us. If you seem to think someone with a couple roles/being inside of a discord represents an entire community, then you should also shift your hate directly towards Celia'nor, Nor'asath, Balian, and what ever other discord he is in. Since that is what you seem to be basing your argument off of. 

The whitewashing of the settlement is not without reason and is very much within every cultural right of those within the main orc nation. Your leadership literally killed the oldest and most respected orc of the nation. Regardless if it were an accident or not, a simple "oops, my bad" wouldnt excuse anyone from such a thing in any culture in any setting. Yet it seems it has been taken as some OOC threat towards you guys when we have not done anything aggressive towards you. I have defended you guys for weeks, even before your settlement was accepted from these types of things happening and this is how we're repaid. I sat here and defended you guys even after both leaders of the new Un'satum settlement wrongfully took over 3,000 mina from the treasury to fund their new settlement on characters that would've never had access to that mina in the first place. You cannot sit here and expect every player to be respectful or inviting after doing such a thing, considering a majority of the players saw them take the mina from the nation and claim it as "payment for their services to the nation" and didnt see any results from their services and instead created heartache for many within the community.


I would like to say I was invited back soon after I chatted with qizu. But the fact still remains that this happened without reason.



 

 

 

((Im confused why are our dms being put on here after you guys asked for people to talk on discord instead of forums 🤔))

[Cheezzy_Garlik 502]

Grishlûk’Raguk sits on a barstool, next to DA GREAT KAPTIN FISHBREF!!! and reads the whitewash notice alone with him. “Ha, mi grukz sum wytwazhes gunna bi all pissy.”

[creamynoteblock 2409]

2 hours ago, Sewer_Rat said:

Okay so, as the author of this post, I am going to speak for myself and as to why I wrote this post.

Don't think it was about the post itself rather the comments being made

 

Also these comments are proving why people don't play orcs lol you guys gotta chill out

[Mannamannaa 1626]

Spoiler

As someone who has just returned to the Orcs and is watching this slow motion car crash of an argument: OOC Drama like this is what made me leave LotC while I was a Nation Leader in the first place. I had to quit immediately and cut off almost all contact with everyone on the server because of arguments between player factions and staff, and my realization of the Elephant in the room that 
Staff can play favorites and when they do it usually isn't the Krugmar Orcs for a variety of reasons.

With that being said, this is a mess where IRP actions and OOC opinions are getting tangled up into a big mess. Please let's keep the (quite valid from my perspective) RP as legitimate RP, and not drag IC posts like this into the mud with outside disagreements. It doesn't just  hurt the images of those arguing, but the communities they represent. The Orcs as a Whole, Staff, Leadership of both cities... We all look bad whenever professionalism and common courtesy go out the window like what is happening now, and it drives players both old and new away from the server. Please, remember that LotC is meant to be fun, not an American Reality TV show.