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Things the server needs


argonian
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2 hours ago, Arafel said:

 

If this is the approach they've taken since I was last around, it would explain so much. This is so backwards, it's borderline comedic.

I mean it's not like official policy, but it's definitely an unacknowledged underlying philosophy. It's all about creating tutorial islands where they can right click NPCs even more condescending than Professor Oak, or CT mentorship programmes, or writing yet another guide, but there's never any discussion about how there's literally nothing a noob can actually do other than AFK at meetings where the important people do all the actual RP'ing.

 

I mean don't get me wrong, babying actually does work. Ask anyone leading a small community or city guard and they'll tell you that entertaining noobs is a fulltime job for them. If you can find them enough shit to do for the first 2 weeks, then they won't quit the server. But that's (mostly) only necessary because there's nothing they're able to do for themselves anyway. We didn't have lords spamming the Discord DMs of noobs in the past, or even a Community Team, and yet despite the fact that both of those things do help retention, the rates in the past were much, much higher. I have the stats on this but it'll take a while to find--I'll come back to this this evening if I think of it.

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1-2. Resource collection in LOTC should either be used to promote merchant/craftsmen roleplay, or make it convenient for people to build new structures. I've never understood the "fun" or rationale in making people wait or grind for things impossibly mundane, or to remove the resource pits that have worked consistently with no issues throughout the server's history with having to run around the map. Did they expect us to play CivCraft while they waited for stuff to respawn? This was supposed to be a map with no pasting, yet I don't think any of the nations in the last year of builds, (lairs especially), ever did anything by hand because of how obnoxious it would be.  I think that resource collection in the past(whether through vaq mcmmo, nexus, the llama merchants), encouraged a lot of people to stay on the server (both in persona time and activity, purely because there was something to do even when people weren't around 100% of the time.  Even relatively inconsequential things like the llama merchants kept the roads and usually inactive parts of the map filled with people.  We should utilize the mechanics of minecraft to make roleplay easier and less obnoxious, yet we've forced people to run around the map away from the RP Hubs we've demanded they stay on. 

 

@VonAulusCurio currently broken but playing with the features is dope. I can't describe or leak its full features due to its scope and privacy, but I genuinely think a fully developed Curio with a focus on roleplay would push LOTC into the spotlight of being a really unique and powerful storytelling medium. At the moment its still contingent on having semi-capable or skilled builders to set-up an area for it. (TBH i just need time scraping assets together and desperately need help, I love running dungeons n the like for people)

3-4 (nerf bows in whatever version of PVP we have, kiting is so lame). 

 

I think if we're going to stay with 1.9 PVP

we should scrap all the weapons and keep clicking consistent (keep dismounting and horse damage)  

armor should be way more fragile, with different kinds being more resistant to different kinds of attacks and slowness penalties comparable with their protection. 

 

I think the problem with Surge pvp is that at the moment it feels obtuse to anyone not accustomed to it. Someone who knows the warhammer swingtimers vs someone who doesn't is night and day. I would rather something more simple like movement and damage taken be the deciding factors of pvp.

 

5. I've made posts about activity checks and countless people have in the past have as well. It's really disheartening to see that this + Hayhollow's leadership leaving post right on the front page of LOTC as if this isn't a years long issue. I'm definitely #blessed as an orc who hasn't felt the full brunt of activity checks, but there are a large number of people who have left the server from the stress and pressure. What's weirder is the OOC mentality around it and the toxicity that comes from it.  WE'RE ALL part of the LOTC Community regardless of what section of the map we choose to rp on. Why bully people off the server or ruin roleplay for it?

 

6. I'm iffy on SS pillars and the nature of warping around the map- in the past it made it more noob-friendly for starter races and characters to find their Hubs, but I worry if everyone can just warp around that it may invalidate the point of roads and other forms of transportation all together.

 

7. Freebuild would be great, but I think there should also be easily accessible resources to help people build in a variety of styles. This could be something as mechanical as spawnable house kits(that disappear over time or something), or just more building guides like the old Messy Medieval posts.  We can see build quality over the years as Maps go on.  While certain people complain about freebuild causing ugly cities or ghosts towns, both of those things continue to exist without freebuild. Landscars, ugly builds, and ghost towns are a reflection of our community and rather then booting them off the server and limiting every build to a paste, we might want to reflect as a community why certain builds or communities may struggle.

 

8-9. You'd think with the amount of LOTC Tiktoks, map trailer videos, and PVP montages there'd be a concise video explaining greater world lore for noobs.  It's crazy to me how much media is spent lying to new players about the LOTC experience, and how little the application process actually prepares them for logging onto the server. I get trying to vet people for roleplay skill but if we're removing the more thought-provoking and internal questions, what is the actual point of the application? Why are we even whitelisted if it takes no more then 10 minutes to complete? Just have them log in and solve the questions and have a CT file it. 

 

I think a good application is one that ensures people they will be comfortable when they're on the server, and they have some awareness of how to "play". Having to explain four brothers or that they can't found a nation like it says on the front page hurts me.  

 

10. Most rules are waived when a mod inevitably has to come to do verdict. I really wish LOTC was more unified as a community because things like conflict mediation and learning to lose wouldn't be impossible.

 

11. I feel like region owner rules were mostly made to prevent a group from bullying a community, but like many LOTC problems its just adding more confusion/red tape rather then just punishing the people who would abuse it.  The same is true about lore and rules in general. 

 

12. I think thats just the nature of the map being so large and the really awful hypixel hub we have. I miss King's road and roadside taverns.  Hub RP kills a lot of my older motivation and intrigue I had for the server. 

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On 2/28/2023 at 2:59 PM, argonian said:

BUT in return swap back to 1.8 pvp so we stop dying of old age, arthritis, and the embarrassment of telling our doctors we got carpal tunnel from fighting for the glory of House Novellen.

1.8 PVP is old and outdated, hardly anyone uses it anymore besides people who are already good at 1.8 PVP (since all newer versions past 1.9 utilize it)

Plus 1.9 PVP is easier to teach and better for new players. The only people who want 1.8 PVP are those who are already good at it.

Video to shed some light:

 

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18 minutes ago, nottvocal said:


Plus 1.9 PVP is easier to teach and better for new players. The only people who want 1.8 PVP are those who are already good at it.

This is just totally untrue. Anyone can spam click a mouse, and no matter how bad your aim is, you're gonna get some hits in and do some damage. In 1.9, if you're a novice or just significantly worse than you're opponent, you're not getting a single hit in.

 

You can also just look at all the actual combat that happens on the server (1v1s and 3v3s on random hub servers are hardly comparable). WCs that go on for like an hour and a half before the first player even dies, raids where no one dies for half an hour and then suddenly one side totally wipes the other without any casualties because they got the first 2 kills, etc. It's a total joke that's awful and mind-numbingly boring for the vast majority of players involved, who're mostly just there to be damage sponges anyway.

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3 minutes ago, argonian said:

This is just totally untrue. Anyone can spam click a mouse, and no matter how bad your aim is, you're gonna get some hits in and do some damage. In 1.9, if you're a novice or significantly worse, you're not getting a single hit in.

 

You can also just look at all the actual combat that happens on the server (1v1s and 3v3s on random hub servers are hardly comparable). WCs that go on for like an hour and a half before the first player even dies, raids where no one dies for half an hour and then suddenly one side totally wipes the other without any casualties because they got the first 2 kills, etc. It's a total joke that's awful and mind-numbingly boring for the vast majority of players involved, who're mostly just there to be damage sponges anyway.

Tbf james they seem to have joined in January, so it's understandable, they haven't really been involved in a warclaim, let alone a warclaim with 1.8 pvp last map.

I agree with your point though, I barely went above a 6-7 when it came to cps, I'm not great at 1.8 and I'm terrible at 1.9 pvp, but there wasn't so much of a great divide between pvp ability last map as this one I feel. And the experience was better last map when it came to warclaims or large fights - there was no shouting 'GET IN THE BLOB GET IN THE BLOB, RUN AROUND THE TREE, HEAL IN THE BLOB AAAAAAAAAAA' for example :') .

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9 minutes ago, argonian said:

This is just totally untrue. Anyone can spam click a mouse, and no matter how bad your aim is, you're gonna get some hits in and do some damage. In 1.9, if you're a novice or just significantly worse than you're opponent, you're not getting a single hit in.

This can also be said about 1.8 pvp too. If you are a novice and just significantly worse then your opponent, even if you get a few hits in, you won't win. And while its true that 1.8 PVP is technically more beginner friendly, to become pro at 1.8 paves a much harder path then becoming pro at 1.9 PVP. I never said 1.9 was beginner friendly, but that its easier to train someone and better for new players to learn.

Furthermore those I have fought on the server (who were worse then me) using 1.9 PVP still got hits in. And its much easier to train someone to be better at 1.9 PVP(Im sorry to my friend Aimy but they ass at PVP ong) because it takes less physical skill and more mental skill. I have no clue how to jitter click or buttefly click and I sure as hell dont want to learn.

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5 minutes ago, Borin said:

Tbf james they seem to have joined in January, so it's understandable, they haven't really been involved in a warclaim, let alone a warclaim with 1.8 pvp last map.

I agree with your point though, I barely went above a 6-7 when it came to cps, I'm not great at 1.8 and I'm terrible at 1.9 pvp, but there wasn't so much of a great divide between pvp ability last map as this one I feel. And the experience was better last map when it came to warclaims or large fights - there was no shouting 'GET IN THE BLOB GET IN THE BLOB, RUN AROUND THE TREE, HEAL IN THE BLOB AAAAAAAAAAA' for example :') .

I think you always got the "STAY IN THE BLOB" stuff tbf but you didn't have to listen to it for 30-60 mins before even a single guy actually died (because his blob-staying skills failed him eventually).

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8 minutes ago, Borin said:

Tbf james they seem to have joined in January, so it's understandable, they haven't really been involved in a warclaim, let alone a warclaim with 1.8 pvp last map.

Yeah I've never been apart of any mass battles, but theres no way it takes that long. If Minecraft wars are anything like other games, it comes down to Wolfpacking and Isolation, killing them one by one is a good strategy. If it was me commanding the battle, I'd have them wiped clean (with a bit of practice of course, im not pro at minecraft war strategies lol)

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5 minutes ago, nottvocal said:

This can also be said about 1.8 pvp too. If you are a novice and just significantly worse then your opponent, even if you get a few hits in, you won't win. And while its true that 1.8 PVP is technically more beginner friendly, to become pro at 1.8 paves a much harder path then becoming pro at 1.9 PVP. I never said 1.9 was beginner friendly, but that its easier to train someone and better for new players to learn.

So the difference is, in both 1.8 and 1.9 pvp the better pvper almost always wins, but in 1.8 pvp the shit pvper can actually do damage so he's not totally worthless in teamfights, whereas he is in 1.9.

 

idk how you separate more beginner friendly from easier to train anyway. You don't care if your footmen become pro-pvpers who get screenshared 10x a day to see if they aren't hacking because they're just that good. You just want them to be able to carry their weight in teamfights so you don't get crushed by bandits with 1/4 your numbers.

 

3 minutes ago, nottvocal said:

Yeah I've never been apart of any mass battles, but theres no way it takes that long. If Minecraft wars are anything like other games, it comes down to Wolfpacking and Isolation, killing them one by one is a good strategy. If it was me commanding the battle, I'd have them wiped clean (with a bit of practice of course, im not pro at minecraft war strategies lol)

They literally do.

 

No, you wouldn't have.

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3 minutes ago, argonian said:

So the difference is, in both 1.8 and 1.9 pvp the better pvper almost always wins, but in 1.8 pvp the shit pvper can actually do damage so he's not totally worthless in teamfights, whereas he is in 1.9.

 

idk how you separate more beginner friendly from easier to train anyway. You don't care if your footmen become pro-pvpers who get screenshared 10x a day to see if they aren't hacking because they're just that good. You just want them to be able to carry their weight in teamfights so you don't get crushed by bandits with 1/4 your numbers.

Your avoiding what I'm saying. I'll say it again, 1.9 PVP is much easier to teach then 1.8 PVP. Regardless if the shit PVP player in 1.8 deals damage, they will never be good enough to kill without training, same with 1.9. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you implying that the shit players are only good for knocking down a couple of hearts before dying? Because if so, thats a terrible mentality.

Also if you say you want your footman to be able to carry their weight, what PVP version would be easier for them to carry their weight in? Cause its sure as hell not 1.8 pvp where they are practically soaring the skys like a plane when gettting combo'd.

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7 minutes ago, nottvocal said:

Your avoiding what I'm saying. I'll say it again, 1.9 PVP is much easier to teach then 1.8 PVP. Regardless if the shit PVP player in 1.8 deals damage, they will never be good enough to kill without training, same with 1.9. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you implying that the shit players are only good for knocking down a couple of hearts before dying? Because if so, thats a terrible mentality.

Uh, no, because those couple hearts could be the last couple hearts just as easily as the first. And getting any couple of hearts is better than none. Again you have this weird idea that teamfights are really just a bunch of 1v1s happening near each other. It's just not the case. Even if I'm up against a guy who's a million times better than me at 1.8, he can't combo-lock me if has other players constantly hitting him. That's how a larger group of worse players can beat a smaller group of good players.

 

But that doesn't work on LOTC now, because unless the guy steps massively out of position and all your guys actually get all their hits in, he's escaping and he'll be back at full health within 10 seconds.

 

7 minutes ago, nottvocal said:

Also if you say you want your footman to be able to carry their weight, what PVP version would be easier for them to carry their weight in? Cause its sure as hell not 1.8 pvp where they are practically soaring the skys like a plane when gettting combo'd.

Again, you can't combo people if you're getting knocked around yourself. The concept of a groupfight seems to be totally foreign to you, which is probably why you can go all Hannibal Barca and say you'd slaughter all the enemy at your first ever WC with a straight face. It's honestly embarrassing.

 

Hint: there's a bit of a difference between a 2v2 on EggWars and a 60v50 raid or a 230 vs 170 warclaim.

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1 hour ago, argonian said:

I think you always got the "STAY IN THE BLOB" stuff tbf but you didn't have to listen to it for 30-60 mins before even a single guy actually died (because his blob-staying skills failed him eventually).

Maybe, but it's every major fight, every interaction - warzones, major battles on Arcas, and warclaims didn't have that, fortifications and all.

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 @nottvocalFor reference, this is how a 24v20 warclaim went a few weeks ago. 15 minutes for a combined 44 people. Last year we had a few warclaims where the numbers were in the 300+ range, so just imagine how much longer that would've taken.

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16 minutes ago, Nectorist said:

 @nottvocalFor reference, this is how a 24v20 warclaim went a few weeks ago. 15 minutes for a combined 44 people. Last year we had a few warclaims where the numbers were in the 300+ range, so just imagine how much longer that would've taken.

 

stepping in to remind that the 300+ range warclaims either crashed repeatedly or had 2 nonstop hours of .01 tps

i was there in the (ITS NOT A BLOB GUYS IT WAS FAST PACED AND QUICKLY RESOLVED) middle of the throne room during soh for 45 minutes spam clicking rukio because mog offered a steam game to whoever got the most kills. sandking was playing the ukelele and singing songs in his native tongue while we watched the zac clay stream hoping it would give us some advantage

 

the orc wc in the 120 v 40 took about 20 or 30 mins tho

 

i advocate for 1.8 because it destroys the career pvper but only if the anticheat & performance are able to be sustained, since 1.8 is infinitely easier and more effective to cheat on (alongside repeatedly diminishing support serverside for 1.8 pvp)

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1 hour ago, Nectorist said:

 @nottvocalFor reference, this is how a 24v20 warclaim went a few weeks ago. 15 minutes for a combined 44 people. Last year we had a few warclaims where the numbers were in the 300+ range, so just imagine how much longer that would've taken.

"eat eat eat keep going warhammers keep going eat eat" and whoever that idiot was going "im dying im dying" thats an L

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