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why do ST hate voidal magic?


_Sheylo_
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3 minutes ago, ronin_champloo said:

Because the majority of players are stuck in this section of the iceberg.

 

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Regardless, seriously speaking from what I've witnessed and seen, it's not a problem of the ST hating voidal magic.. it's an issue with players themselves being unable to form their own proper opinions, and instead parroting what they've said again and again, like a circlejerk, and these reflect IRP. Concepts and thoughts that would drive a person mad are believed by the Ben Shapiro, Alchemy-Guzling and Philosophy-Snorting populace of LoTC.

 

These same people will IRPly go to cities, talk about how the void is bad, and carry the same atmosphere as these guys, rather than relying on IRP experience to decide wherever or not something is bad/good.

 

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I think we should explore more of the void- the voidal tear event site would have been cool to do so if it wasn't all just people dying to voidal horrors and what not. Because not everything is so black and white.. o-o what if the NORMAL world is a reflection of the void and WE are the bad guys??????

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20 minutes ago, satinkira said:

void magic = bad, average void rper is a *casts fireball player who doesn't actually rp considering the fact that through the very existence of their magic they pollute the world and rip a veil between the natural world and the Void. also a v gatekept and oocly controlled magic at higher levels and also known as the 'silver magic' because it's basically used mainly by celia'nor and haelun'or

voidal magic could be so good, but instead of rewriting the original lore they keep throwing on bandaid additions and new abilities that often don't provide much to rp (like that one ability that solely exists to watch for voidal tears basically being eye aesthetic along with environmental protection through dreams). REWRITE THE ORIGINAL LORE TO FIX THE PROBLEMS, EXPLORE THE WHOLE 'WE'RE MESSING WITH THE VOID' ASPECT MORE, CHANGE THE NERFS TO VOIDAL MAGIC. please. 

also don't mass spread it, write another fireball wizard spell. voidal magic can and should be special, but it isn't

+1

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3 minutes ago, _Sheylo_ said:

I think we should explore more of the void- the voidal tear event site would have been cool to do so if it wasn't all just people dying to voidal horrors and what not. Because not everything is so black and white.. o-o what if the NORMAL world is a reflection of the void and WE are the bad guys??????

poor quality bait

 

what issues do you currently actually have with the current voidal magics

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5 minutes ago, Lord_of_losers said:

poor quality bait

 

what issues do you currently actually have with the current voidal magics

more so that iceberg thing, but also i want more void lore- i want to go into the void. like, its 'the fog is coming' but the void and i wanna be one with it. o-o o-o

Sleepy joe agrees

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1 minute ago, _Sheylo_ said:

more so that iceberg thing, but also i want more void lore- i want to go into the void. like, its 'the fog is coming' but the void and i wanna be one with it. o-o o-o

Sleepy joe agrees


yeah actually +1 to this -we need voidal submariners to go into the void and explore… so poggers

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6 minutes ago, Lord_of_losers said:


yeah actually +1 to this -we need voidal submariners to go into the void and explore… so poggers

people going into a realm of pure energy would be weird.

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1 minute ago, alexmagus said:

people going into a realm of pure energy would be weird.


thats why we’d make void suits for exploring the void and a submarine enchanted to keep out the raw energy 

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1 minute ago, Lord_of_losers said:


thats why we’d make void suits for exploring the void and a submarine enchanted to keep out the raw energy 

woah thats rlly well thought out ur too right

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ITT : we act pretentious about pretending to be a wizard

 

59 minutes ago, satinkira said:

void magic = bad, average void rper is a *casts fireball player who doesn't actually rp considering the fact that through the very existence of their magic they pollute the world and rip a veil between the natural world and the Void. also a v gatekept and oocly controlled magic at higher levels and also known as the 'silver magic' because it's basically used mainly by celia'nor and haelun'or

voidal magic could be so good, but instead of rewriting the original lore they keep throwing on bandaid additions and new abilities that often don't provide much to rp (like that one ability that solely exists to watch for voidal tears basically being eye aesthetic along with environmental protection through dreams). REWRITE THE ORIGINAL LORE TO FIX THE PROBLEMS, EXPLORE THE WHOLE 'WE'RE MESSING WITH THE VOID' ASPECT MORE, CHANGE THE NERFS TO VOIDAL MAGIC. please. 

also don't mass spread it, write another fireball wizard spell. voidal magic can and should be special, but it isn't

 

i will share a terrible dark secret with you: no one thinks any magic is special. even if it is canonically the rarest magic in the world that only you and the guy you made up to teach it to you can use it. something becomes special when it is written to be special, to exact meaningful consequences on characters and the world that they live in, which most magic is not. most magic is written to be generic powerups with circumstantial weaknesses like maybe one step above "my character Plimbert the Deathstalker has orc strength and super agility and immunity to conventional weapons, but he can be instantly felled by a rare ST material on Tuesdays"

 

even genuinely well written and interesting concepts have an insurmountable hurdle in having to be actually executed through the medium of minecraft text with everyone having a different level of lore knowledge and reading comprehension. what's special is the stories you create with your friends, and magic is just a device you can use in those stories

 

also this whole "tear in the veil" concept would be cool if it actually meant anything, like the ST were willing to actually expand on or roleplay it at all. so far we have had a voidal tear event that turned part of the map blue for a month and didn't go anywhere, a few voidal horror CAs, and like 100,000 "voidal magic is eevil!!!" forum posts.

 

besides having negative effects on my character personally (which i still have to interpret the lore creatively to do) if i play void magic as dangerous and unpredictable as you say it is --> instant blacklist for stepping out of one 1,000,000 redlines prewritten into every piece so that it isn't more Powerful than the flavor of the month deity or misc. magic/feat/creature. despite all of this I genuinely enjoy void magic RP because it gives me just a little more poetic license to write a character than anything else, and because I didn't need to join someone's obnoxious discord to obtain it

 

there is obvious utility from a game design perspective in having magic that just lets you throw fireballs or majjyk missiles -- that's why it's one of three classes in nearly every roleplaying game system does exactly this. sometimes people gotta throw fireballs to kill giant spiders, and I genuinely don't see what's wrong with that.

 

the seething disdain you people have for generic fantasy tropes is what prevents people from actually doing interesting high fantasy rp, because tropes are a part of the genre, and playing with them/building on them is how you make genre fiction

 

23 minutes ago, alexmagus said:

people going into a realm of pure energy would be weird.

 

maybe the void realm is a mirror of our realm. or a memory of our realm is impressed on it every time a void mage breaks the veil to steal its power. or maybe the void is what's behind the fourth wall and the literal keyboards and screens and maybe some grass. its not the most outlandish concept ever to have the Void (or the Interstice, or the Intergument, or the Borderworld, Xen, or something else this stuff is all made up) be an explorable place in game or at least a tangible place/thing that could be fleshed out in rp. that would give people some cool stuff to do

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Just now, monkeypoacher said:

ITT : we act pretentious about pretending to be a wizard

 

 

i will share a terrible dark secret with you: no one thinks any magic is special. even if it is canonically the rarest magic in the world that only you and the guy you made up to teach it to you can use it. something becomes special when it is written to be interesting, which most magic is not. most magic is written to be generic powerups with circumstantial weaknesses like maybe one step above "my character Plimbert the Deathstalker has orc strength and super agility and immunity to conventional weapons, but he can be instantly felled by a rare ST material on Tuesdays"

 

even genuinely well written and interesting concepts have an insurmountable hurdle in having to be actually executed through the medium of minecraft text with everyone having a different level of lore knowledge and reading comprehension

 

also this whole "tear in the veil" concept would be cool if it actually meant anything, like the ST were willing to actually expand on or roleplay it at all. so far we have had a voidal tear event that turned part of the map blue for a month and didn't go anywhere, a few voidal horror CAs, and like 100,000 "voidal magic is eevil!!!" forum posts.

 

besides having negative effects on my character personally (which i still have to interpret the lore creatively to do) if i play void magic as dangerous and unpredictable as you say it is --> instant blacklist for stepping out of one 1,000,000 redlines prewritten into every piece so that it isn't more Powerful than the flavor of the month deity or misc. magic/feat/creature. despite all of this I genuinely enjoy void magic RP because it gives me just a little more poetic license to write a character than anything else, and because I didn't need to join someone's obnoxious discord to obtain it

 

there is obvious utility from a game design perspective in having magic that just lets you throw fireballs or majjyk missiles -- that's why it's one of three classes in nearly every roleplaying game system does exactly this. the seething disdain you people have for generic fantasy tropes is what prevents people from actually doing interesting high fantasy rp, because tropes are a part of the genre, and playing with them/building on them is how you make genre fiction

 

the generalisation problem

 

no, magic isn't really special anymore (Go on cowards, reduce the numbers of people who have dark magic and make the lore posts and MArt posts private), and I do agree with you that more should be done on the 'veil', and that most magic isn't special anymore due to oversaturation, and that redlines shouldn't be policed so thoroughly as it currently is as long as it provides to the narrative, and that generic fantasy tropes do help to add to rp. 

however, what I'm saying is that voidal magic doesn't need to exist as the mage trope. while it certainly can, it doesn't need to - because, as you say, the general theme of the lore existing as 'ripping holes in the veil' and so on doesn't match the outcome of the magic. this isn't to say that magics that aren't following of tropes are somehow better. ultimately, it all comes down to how the magic is roleplayed (which is why redlines should be more lax and loose...) because what's important isn't the spell and the having the magic, it's the roleplay that it creates

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voidal magic good, good on ramp for new players to get to know magic lore and lots of shit for experienced players to interact with

 

the problem? void players suck

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Just now, satinkira said:

 

the generalisation problem

 

no, magic isn't really special anymore (Go on cowards, reduce the numbers of people who have dark magic and make the lore posts and MArt posts private), and I do agree with you that more should be done on the 'veil', and that most magic isn't special anymore due to oversaturation, and that redlines shouldn't be policed so thoroughly as it currently is as long as it provides to the narrative, and that generic fantasy tropes do help to add to rp. 

however, what I'm saying is that voidal magic doesn't need to exist as the mage trope. while it certainly can, it doesn't need to - because, as you say, the general theme of the lore existing as 'ripping holes in the veil' and so on doesn't match the outcome of the magic. this isn't to say that magics that aren't following of tropes are somehow better. ultimately, it all comes down to how the magic is roleplayed (which is why redlines should be more lax and loose...) because what's important isn't the spell and the having the magic, it's the roleplay that it creates

 

it wouldn't be special if fewer people had it, is the point I'm trying to make

 

making magic lore private or whatever doesn't really fix anything. the people who thrive in a highly gatekept magic environment are the same kinds of boring cliquelords who thrive on restricting other ppl's creativity. they're the people who spend hours in these threads and in lore discussion shitting on everyone's ideas and who write 10,000 words of inexplicable redlines and loopholes and caveats for their own benefit, they are the ones (not johnny fireball-thrower the fire evocationist) who make cool ideas hard to execute.

 

I think as a general rule ppl would have more fun on this server if they abandoned the idea that roleplay has to conform to some standard to be worth doing. and instead met others at their level and riffed off each other to create interesting ideas. roleplay stuff for its own sake, because you enjoy it, not because you think it makes you look cool or special

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2 minutes ago, monkeypoacher said:

 

it wouldn't be special if fewer people had it, is the point I'm trying to make

 

making magic lore private or whatever doesn't really fix anything. the people who thrive in a highly gatekept magic environment are the same kinds of boring cliquelords who thrive on restricting other ppl's creativity. they're the people who spend hours in these threads and in lore discussion shitting on everyone's ideas and who write 10,000 words of inexplicable redlines and loopholes and caveats for their own benefit, they are the ones (not johnny fireball-thrower the fire evocationist) who make cool ideas hard to execute.

 

I think as a general rule ppl would have more fun on this server if they abandoned the idea that roleplay has to conform to some standard to be worth doing. and instead met others at their level and riffed off each other to create interesting ideas. roleplay stuff for its own sake, because you enjoy it, not because you think it makes you look cool or special

 

it's weird because I think we're dancing around different points making the same points. I don't think that roleplay needs to conform to a 'standard' to be done, I'd simply advocate for fewer people to have certain magics to make them feel.. rare, or at least for people to develop a culture where they don't whip out their magic at every opportunity for the sake of being special. I think you're making a mistake of generalising all ppl who don't like widespread magic as cliquey elitists who want to gatekeep everything and everyone and write good lore - but that isn't the point of this thread.

I'm not advocating for it to be less spread, I just think a general shift in the style of roleplay (and something else to fill the gap) would be good. yeah I do dislike where voidal magic is atm, but no I don't hate johnny fireball throw the fire evocationist (but I do dislike how he uses the magic - not due to any fault of his own, but because of the way that the magic has been ultimately utilised by the wider server).

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