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When does your right to roleplay on LOTC get permanently revoked? [TW]


MunaZaldrizoti

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41 minutes ago, valecu said:

Also I cannot express how proud you are making your friends Muna, things like this are not so easy to go out and post. 

This ^^^, we are here for you Muna.

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8 minutes ago, Twodiks said:

Nah if you saw the first few comments b5 they got deleted, they sorta were. To be fair though, I don't think Charlemagne can or should police their behavior. It's more for the administration to figure out. I don't think that's char's responsibility because to be honest, those kind of players are commonly found far past just his community.

 

Seeing the very first comment on this post as someone responding to someone else's deleted comment of "Adria W, Bvale W" was whiplash

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22 minutes ago, MunaZaldrizoti said:

As far as I knew, he intended to further threaten me for speaking out again.

 

As far as he could have known you could have gotten over it. Seems to me you just want him gone and are asking for an apology so you can look better. It's pretty clear that it has always been out of the question for you. And that is fine. But be honest about it from the beginning at least.

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As someone who used to be in his own 'edgy' phase when I joined the server, I can understand and see both sides of the conversation. Obviously, people should be held accountable for their actions, and the stuff they've said -- along with the effect and community that they may give, though the capacity for change is prevalent as we grow up. Keep in mind that I'm not condoning Charlemagne and Co. for anything that he had done, I'm just providing my own thoughts on the topic. Hell, I've never even talked to the guy. 

 

However, recognizing the potential for change is important in this instance. We were all horrible once, as when we're younger, our morals and attitudes to things are still developing. More-so when we're surrounded by people and an audience that clamors and cheers for negativity. Obviously, this doesn't excuse what he did but I'm sure we could all remember the things and actions that we've done to antagonize others -- mistakes and beliefs made when our thoughts on topics weren't set in stone, or when we were surrounded in a toxic and bad environment. Such things, I've repeated, need to be remember as are people's capacity to learn and grow.

 

Holding people accountable doesn't mean that they're forever condemned to their mistakes and deeds, but rather ensuring that they take responsibility for their actions, and continue to grow and learn from them.

 

If the guy's apologized, and truly feels guilt and shame for what he had done before, then I find that it's reasonable to consider giving them a second chance -- not forgiveness, but rather acknowledgement. Acknowledge that people can learn and grow beyond the crude person that they were once before. I don't even expect the guy to be forgiven by the community or the people that he's affected from what I've seen and the responses, but rather what I'd hope to see is for people to see that the attempt for amends is there. Be wary by all means, but hopeful.

 

Furthermore, I'd like to commend the posters for coming out with this. Showing evidence in a public forum, where names are attached, can be rather daunting. However, it's opened up an open dialogue and where all perspectives can be considered and discussed.

 

EDIT:

Having seen the recent posts on the AI thing, all I can say is man.

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9 minutes ago, ronin_champloo said:

As someone who used to be in his own 'edgy' phase when I joined the server, I can understand and see both sides of the conversation. Obviously, people should be held accountable for their actions, and the stuff they've said -- along with the effect and community that they may give, though the capacity for change is prevalent as we grow up. Keep in mind that I'm not condoning Charlemagne and Co. for anything that he had done, I'm just providing my own thoughts on the topic. Hell, I've never even talked to the guy.

 

are you admitting to throwing out rape threats when you joined the server because that's what you're defending right now

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Just now, Capace said:

You are cancelled and shut out. I feel it happens just as much to young people as it does to adults. There is no room for error, especially online. We have all made mistakes in our past that were never acknowledged (or were), which is why we are better people.


i get what you're trying to say, but he threatened to rape a trans person until they wern't trans anymore. i don't think you can give out the "cancel culture has gone too far" excuse, mate.

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1 minute ago, LoTC's Next Top Model said:

are you admitting to throwing out rape threats when you joined the server because that's what you're defending right now

It’s almost as if you didn’t even read what Spoon said, he said he doesn’t condone any of their actions. He says that people grow up and change, which is not defending Charl’s prior actions whatsoever.

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1 minute ago, Pancho said:

It’s almost as if you didn’t even read what Spoon said, he said he doesn’t condone any of their actions. He says that people grow up and change, which is not defending Charl’s prior actions whatsoever.


sure, people grow up and change. where is the proof of said change? and, even if he has changed, does that matter? should you be given golden laurels and praised as a champion solely because you /don't/ threaten to rape people anymore? is that the bar of acceptance for which people are measured to, now?

"i don't do that now" doesn't mean anything. it doesn't mean you're a good person, and it doesn't mean you should explicitly be forgiven.

i'm going to take a stance now as anti-raping minors, anti-raping trans people, anti-pedophilia, and so on. i will gladly die on the hill that such people should never be around this server, and that "you don't understand, i'm different now!" isn't enough.

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5 minutes ago, LoTC's Next Top Model said:

 

are you admitting to throwing out rape threats when you joined the server because that's what you're defending right now

 

Not at all. 

 

Refer to this:

 

16 minutes ago, ronin_champloo said:

Keep in mind that I'm not condoning Charlemagne and Co. for anything that he had done, I'm just providing my own thoughts on the topic. Hell, I've never even talked to the guy. 

 

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1 minute ago, LoTC's Next Top Model said:


sure, people grow up and change. where is the proof of said change? and, even if he has changed, does that matter? should you be given golden laurels and praised as a champion solely because you /don't/ threaten to rape people anymore? is that the bar of acceptance for which people are measured to, now?

"i don't do that now" doesn't mean anything. it doesn't mean you're a good person, and it doesn't mean you should explicitly be forgiven.

i'm going to take a stance now as anti-raping minors, anti-raping trans people, anti-pedophilia, and so on. i will gladly die on the hill that such people should never be around this server, and that "you don't understand, i'm different now!" isn't enough.

 

Out of interest, how would you have the accused party prove their changed nature?

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Just now, ronin_champloo said:

 

Not at all. 

 

Refer to this:

 

 


your response was "i was edgy when i joined the server too!", which unless you were EXPLICITLY THREATENING TO RAPE PEOPLE, wasn't as edgy as he was. i don't think "man, i said some insensitive stuff four years ago" should make you immediately sympathize with the guy. sure, we all said some bad stuff, but that doesn't mean anything.

there's a huge difference between "i was rude several years ago and i'm different now so maybe it's different now!" and "ALL OF US ARE TERRIBLE AND SHOULD FORGIVE!". i said some bad stuff in my youth, and i NEVER did any of this shit! i never even came CLOSE!

not all of use were this bad. most of us wern't, which is why most of us didn't take a four year ban. you're trying to play defense for a dude you never met by saying "hey, cmon guys, people change!", when that doesn't even matter. there is a limit beyond which you've crossed a line and shouldn't be allowed back. i'm not saying he should never be able to find a job or find happiness again or he should lose everything, but he for sure should not be allowed back on the server. you do not have a right to lotc. "i'm sorry i threatened to rape you to death" isn't enough (and he apparently never even went so far as to say that to the affected party). who is to judge he's changed, if the victims all agree he hasn't and never came forward to try and fix anything?

i hope he does grow and change. i just also hope he does it elsewhere, because i won't welcome him here.

5 minutes ago, satinkira said:

 

Out of interest, how would you have the accused party prove their changed nature?


i wouldn't because i wouldn't let them back because i am firm anti-rapist.

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5 minutes ago, satinkira said:

 

Out of interest, how would you have the accused party prove their changed nature?

i think ultimately proving someone has changed isnt done through direct actions or words. But rather through time and passive actions. It takes some time, its not a moment where it suddenly is the case.

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1 minute ago, LoTC's Next Top Model said:

i wouldn't because i wouldn't let them back because i am firm anti-rapist.

 

Is the individual a rapist? I was under the impression they had made a remark in extremely, extremely poor taste - but not a rapist. There's a difference between the two.

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