Sander 3155 Popular Post Share Posted April 28, 2023 Hello everyone! Another week, another chart: this time I've made for you all a chart that details the lineage of nations ruled by the Horen dynasty* and with it several attached nations. This will hopefully shed some light on the long and - as I very much realized while making this - very complicated history of the human nations of LOTC. How were there Eight Orenian Empires? Which dynasties ruled the Empires? How does it all relate back to Horen? Hopefully those questions will get answered by this chart! But first, some caveats; 1: As with the languages chart; this one might have some issues, I'm not an expert on this topic, I was only around for about half the nations covered in this chart. If you think there's a mistake, feel free to point it out in the comments and I might explain the choices that were made or correct it for a potential future version. 2: This chart does not seek to outline all the different people descended from Horen that ruled at different times - that's what a family tree is for, which already exists - but instead shows the succession of nations. Also, the nations with a golden outline are nations that survive to this day. 3: Dynasties. They exist. This chart leaves out a lot of them and perhaps doesn't do proper justice to some of the ones it depicts, but here's how it works roughly; Each box represents a nation; if that nation had a dominant dynasty (at least half of the rulers of that nation were of the same dynasty) then the box is coloured for that dynasty. To give an example, the second Reformed Kingdom of Horen had 3 Kings, 2 of which were of the Ashford dynasty, so it gets coloured. The Free Duchy of Adria had a Carrion Duke and a Horen Duke, so there's no dominant dynasty thus no colour. With the founding of the Eighth Holy Orenian Empire, the House of Horen was dissolved, thus from that point I won't show it as the same dynasty anymore. Instead from there I've used Novellen and Alstion as seperate dynasties. Purple: Horen Red: Carrion Yellow: Chivay Blue: Ashford Green: Courland Gold: Savin Orange: Marna Pink: Novellen Burgundy: Alstion 4. There's 2 kinds of arrows connecting the various nations. A vertical arrow means the relation is one of succession, with one state succeeding the other. A horizontal arrow depicts a relation of annexation or secession, depending on which way the arrow points. 5. The tree has been cut up in 4 parts which were placed next to eachother, because it was incredibly long. This way you can actually see it compactly. I hope this is useful to the lot of you! These are pretty fun to make, so with the previous chart getting received so well, I figured I'd make you another. Make sure to let me know what you think! (And +1, I feed on the forum reputation!) 54 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarven 1695 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Incredible, opening up and making the lore and histories for accessible, godspeed 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andustar 2116 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Awesome work as always, Sander! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibn Khaldun 7728 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Incredibly neat to see and good representation of the Hansetian/Teutonic Order elements as far as I can see! You've got the Aegis timeline correct as far as I remember. I do want to ask, what are some lore concerning Kingdom of Balain and Mzen? Those names I do not recognize from Aegis-era lore unless it was created post-Aegis map which is fine, just want to learn more. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander 3155 Author Share Posted April 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ibn Khaldun said: Incredibly neat to see and good representation of the Hansetian/Teutonic Order elements as far as I can see! You've got the Aegis timeline correct as far as I remember. I do want to ask, what are some lore concerning Kingdom of Balain and Mzen? Those names I do not recognize from Aegis-era lore unless it was created post-Aegis map which is fine, just want to learn more. Not sure if those actually existed or only in lore, but if I recall the source correctly they’re described in the Scroll of Gospel. The Prince of Balain and one King Edmund of Mzen who was of the line of Horen were candidates for the throne of Oren, but the Prince was killed before he could take the throne and the King fell in battle en route to Jrent. Something like that. Then furtherdown it described Oren as having united mankind, so I incorporated these titles into that. I think for next week I will make a chart depicting the early rulers from Horen to Sigismund. If I do, expect to see more about those figures in that. I would’ve liked to include more detail here but that would’ve made things overcomplicated. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergisala 2791 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Very interesting although it could be argued that the Kingdom of Courland, while calling itself such name, was never really a kingdom but a duchy, due to the lack of coronation and recognition by the Church of the Canon (although it was recognized as a kingdom with a coronation by a minority of the church that went full schism) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
argonian 12836 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Ibn Khaldun said: Incredibly neat to see and good representation of the Hansetian/Teutonic Order elements as far as I can see! You've got the Aegis timeline correct as far as I remember. I do want to ask, what are some lore concerning Kingdom of Balain and Mzen? Those names I do not recognize from Aegis-era lore unless it was created post-Aegis map which is fine, just want to learn more. they're just lore places never existed 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAlexa 3877 Share Posted April 28, 2023 This is super informative, Sander! Just one thing, Sedan’s dominant house is de Joannes. Seeing as it’s a direct cadet branch of Horen, as Marna and Novellen are, I think it should get its own color. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishy 1578 Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) Pretty good, but there's some that I feel are poorly represented or not listed.Notes on the Kingdoms: Spoiler Kingdom of Kaedrin (Chivay) should be added as a part of the First Empire, be a contributor to the Third Empire, then be spawned from the Republic of Ves with Helvets as a contributor to the Eighth Empire. Duchy of Adria (Carrion) should be added as a secession from the Reformed Kingdom of Oren that is reabsorbed into the Fifth Empire, it is later reconstituted with Carrion under the Empire of Man then later transformed into the Republic of Ves. The "Great Orenian Exodus to Aeldin" should be replaced with the Aeldinic Empire (Horenic), as it is where the dynasts emerged for the Third Empire, Fifth Empire, Kingdom of Renatus after the Sixth, and the Seventh Empire respectively. The Empire of Man to Eighth Empire is rather inaccurate, there should be no Empire of Renatus succeeding the Empire of Man, at least none that succeeded the polities that seceded from the Empire of Man. I'm not really sure what the "Empire of Renatus" is besides some forum fiction blogged about at the end of the War of Two Emperor's. The full political history of the Republic of Ves would be Duchy of Adria (Carrion) > Republic of Ves > Duchy of Cathalon (Helvets) > Kingdom of Kaedrin (Helvets). The County of Leuven should be Ashford (de Falstaff) and later succeeded by Rubern a mercenary occupation state, later reincorporated into the Eighth Empire. Kingdom of Norland should be incorporated into one of the Pertinaxi states somewhere, I forget exactly when they took the title but they were within the Empire of Man until the War of the Two Emperor's. Notes on the Dynasties: Spoiler It would be better to split Horen and Carrion branches up earlier in the tree. The Horens of the Fifth Empire were Johannians which would later diverge into Marna, Alstion, and de Joannes respectively. The Horens of the Kingdom of Renatus after the Sixth Empire, Renatus Marna, and the Empire of Man were the Pertinaxi. The first Duchy of Adria and the Adria proceeding the Republic of Ves should be noted as Sarkozic, a Carrion branch. Novellen is a Sarkozic branch with Pertinaxi admixture. Barbanov should similarly be branched from Carrion for the Kingdom of Hanseti-Ruska. Here's a mockup of some of the changes. Black for Adria, red for Kaedrin, orange for Norland, green for Rubern. There's more I likely missed, but this is off the top of my head. Edited April 28, 2023 by Fishy i did 20 years in the can 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibn Khaldun 7728 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 hour ago, argonian said: they're just lore places never existed Understood, thanks mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander 3155 Author Share Posted April 28, 2023 31 minutes ago, Fishy said: Pretty good, but there's some that I feel are poorly represented or not listed.Notes on the Kingdoms: Hide contents Kingdom of Kaedrin (Chivay) should be added as a part of the First Empire, be a contributor to the Third Empire, then be spawned from the Republic of Ves with Helvets as a contributor to the Eighth Empire. Duchy of Adria (Carrion) should be added as a secession from the Reformed Kingdom of Oren that is reabsorbed into the Fifth Empire, it is later reconstituted with Carrion under the Empire of Man then later transformed into the Republic of Ves. The "Great Orenian Exodus to Aeldin" should be replaced with the Aeldinic Empire (Horenic), as it is where the dynasts emerged for the Third Empire, Fifth Empire, Kingdom of Renatus after the Sixth, and the Seventh Empire respectively. The Empire of Man to Eighth Empire is rather inaccurate, there should be no Empire of Renatus succeeding the Empire of Man, at least none that succeeded the polities that seceded from the Empire of Man. I'm not really sure what the "Empire of Renatus" is besides some forum fiction blogged about at the end of the War of Two Emperor's. The full political history of the Republic of Ves would be Duchy of Adria (Carrion) > Republic of Ves > Duchy of Cathalon (Helvets) > Kingdom of Kaedrin (Helvets). The County of Leuven should be Ashford (de Falstaff) and later succeeded by Rubern a mercenary occupation state, later reincorporated into the Eighth Empire. Kingdom of Norland should be incorporated into one of the Pertinaxi states somewhere, I forget exactly when they took the title but they were within the Empire of Man until the War of the Two Emperor's. Notes on the Dynasties: Hide contents It would be better to split Horen and Carrion branches up earlier in the tree. The Horens of the Fifth Empire were Johannians which would later diverge into Marna, Alstion, and de Joannes respectively. The Horens of the Kingdom of Renatus after the Sixth Empire, Renatus Marna, and the Empire of Man were the Pertinaxi. The first Duchy of Adria and the Adria proceeding the Republic of Ves should be noted as Sarkozic, a Carrion branch. Novellen is a Sarkozic branch with Pertinaxi admixture. Barbanov should similarly be branched from Carrion for the Kingdom of Hanseti-Ruska. Here's a mockup of some of the changes. Black for Adria, red for Kaedrin, orange for Norland, green for Rubern. There's more I likely missed, but this is off the top of my head. Right some of this is very good feedback, so thank you for that! As for various vassals of the Empire though such as the Duchy of Adria; if they were not independent, I did not add them, at least that's what I'm aiming for. Like every time you see Haense for instance, it was independent either because the Empire had fallen apart, they were fighting against the Emperor or they'd been granted independence from the Empire. I also tried to limit the colours to dynasties, not houses. The only reason Novellen and Alstion were added (and I should have added de Joannes, Alexa is right on that) is because the 'House of Horen' dynasty had been dissolved at that point. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reckless Banzai Screamer 11530 Share Posted April 28, 2023 the farfolk dynasties of faiz ibraheem and adam forgotten again in favor of highlander-heartlander patriarchy :doom::mald::vengence: 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legoboy7984 2441 Share Posted April 29, 2023 No one can doubt out of all the Orenian Empires, the 5th Empire was the strongest until the last 2 to 3 months. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3r05t4r 854 Share Posted April 30, 2023 Looking back like this really brings up memories, considering I have been a player for the majority of the realms listed. It's amazing how much player history can be shown in such a compact image, considering the depth and diversity, the actions and events that took place. +2 if I could, very nice. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump 704 Share Posted April 30, 2023 As someone who has drifted in and out of human circles but was familiar with a lot of these or even had direct involvement in some, this helps clarify some of the connections between them haha thanks also thanks to fishy for fixing some of the minute details 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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