Patrick.

(RP&MC) Name: zePato – Ser Seth Renault

Age: Mid 40s

Title: Grand Marshal, Adventuring Knight

Events: The Joust, The Melee

“Very good. He will do well,” says Ser Seth Renault of his old friend. “I will pray for the success of Elwood’s current and future efforts as High Pontiff.”

Full Name: Seth Renault

City of Residency: Carolustadt

Year of Birth: 1659

Address: Caius Circle 11

IGN: zePato

RP Name: Ser Seth Renault

RP Age: 25ish

Name:  Seth Renault

Year of Birth: 1662

City of Primary Residency: Carolustadt

((MC Name: zePato))

Me gusta mucho. +1

Hey, guess what. The majority of what you've said has already been mentioned as well. If you hadn't realised we've reached the point were we're practically turning in circles repeating ourselves for the most part.

I will agree with that. I will agree with that, indeed.

I voted for neither and support neither option since I have a divided opinion, I voted for Gaius's option in the first place. So sorry matey, no post coming from me. And no, I will not "spare you the cleverness" since it's like that that you point out fallacies in someone else logic. If you don't want people giving out counter arguments, don't post.

You've certainly held a position in this thread from the looks of it; I still see replies and arguments coming from you. If you still plan on posting, then do tackle points already said. Blindmind for one supports PVP default, so perhaps you could try him? 

If you're not going to counter argue the points that matter, then I could question your reason to post as well. I don't mind a counter argument, I do mind, however, something said that's already been discussed in the past 56 pages of this thread.

-snip-

Do remember that there is more to be revealed/added! This is a work in progress! This isn't meant as an argument against what you said, but just something to toss out there for others.

Banned for wanting to roleplay will be rather q-ueer. (Since when is that censored? o.o;)

Please, spare the cleverness. I am still waiting for a post from you refuting the points Gaius/Blindmind/etc made in order to convince those like I about the benefits of roleplay /combat/. Please, indulge all of us. We only want things to be fair for everyone, do we not?

If it goes to PvP default (Which it should not.) then I will refuse to PvP since they can refuse to RP fights. Fair is fair.

Then you can go and get banned for it. The rules are the rules. To abide by them is to be fair.

It's that sort of attitude that ruins this community. A linear and close minded one with a self perceived flair of spite that only digresses this server from being good for everybody.

Loosen up. The world is not at its end. You will live on.

Hey I started in Aegis and that was back in january

Many like to say that the 'good' times of Aegis were up until November/December. After that, leadership had changed and the server became a mess, according to most sources.

Incorrect. If PvP is default and Gaius' option is not chosen... It will be PvP default, no exceptions. 95% you say, what figures do you have to say so? Right now it is looking like 50%.

 

However, neither of these arguments you have provided actually further why PvP is better, so I really don't mind you saying this.

 

Pointing out that half the server is against PvP becoming default and the other half is for PvP becoming default... There is going to be the need of choosing the compromise. Enforcing PvP as default would only harm the server, in my opinion.

Really now? The ones who makes these decisions are the staff, the people who are in charge of the server. The only figure I need is the fact that this poll will probably have minimal effect on the outcome of this situation. We've always adapted. I am also not incorrect on the part about magic users; magic users are in grounds for default RP.

There were a lot of little things that amounted to that achievement, and the combat mechanics were certainly one of them. No doubt, the entire landscape of RP, as LotC recognized it, changed or started changing when RP fighting became the hot topic. It's amounted to blisters like Kingston, which is universally agreed upon to be a place sorely lacking in wholesome roleplay, leading to its eventual condemnation. However, the continuation of RP fighting will no doubt continue to be the abrasion that allows for further blisters. We've popped one (Kingston), but there will likely be others. And where there aren't hot spots that anyone can point out and say, "we don't go there anymore," there is all of the sub-par and contrived combat that fills the gaps in the isolated spaces between what could be described as civilization, like so much puss deserving of several moist cloths. 

We've entertained RP fighting for about a year and a half now. What good have we accomplished with it? Is there a crowning moment that the server can recognize as across the board as something monumental, that wasn't of our own design, that didn't go too far, that maintained an unfaltering level of normalcy, reason, and logic? Perhaps. Maybe there's a good handful of folks who've had their share of personal poetry dedicated to glorious combat, a veritable monument unto themselves. More likely than not, however, that singular cluster of moments that are like beacons to you exist in lonesome among a sea of dark, nebulous frustration. When I talk to people about RP fighting (even just by uttering the phrase), there isn't any story (good or bad) that isn't prefaced by a long exasperated sigh.

I want to say we've brute-forced creativity, that we've forsaken responsibility in lieu of a system that caters to the lowest common denominator, but, while I do trust this, it isn't entirely true. I would feel more comfortable saying that we've given up on it completely. Where did our imaginations flutter off to that we can't fix for ourselves a few simple interpretations of encounters that don't come pre-packaged with imagery and implications? When did combat become as common as conversation, that we can't see options that stand in contrast to violence?

The one thing that RP fighting has done that I cannot simply forgive or forget is the tidal wive of encouragement it has lent brutish characters who rely on their meager skills with a blade rather than their wits (or common sense). A certain level of sophistication has gone extinct between the start of an encounter and the eventual brawl that has made mindless violence so approachable and, thus, common. I will admit, I can understand the appeal of controlling every little digit of your character as though s/he were a marionette, thrown into a customized locomotion to satisfy personal visual desires and themes, but maybe that's not such a good thing. Maybe we've been given too much control, and we've spoiled a good thing. RP fighting has pulled away the direction and structure of simple design, entirely, allowing for just about anything to slip through, with nowhere to go or where to stop. We've watered down our beer, we've washed away the spice, and I believe that many people can agree that a lot of water has slipped through, thus squelching any and all taste.

Are we so afraid of change that we cannot muster the courage to give this a try? Ironically, we would likely discover that combat would be less common, and that's all we tend to complain about. More than that, we wouldn't be devoting so much of our resources, so much of ourselves, to lengthy yet temporary battles that we're likely fuming about by the end and try as we might to forget (and that the world will forget), anyway.

 

Yes, RP fighting gives you details, but they are biased by your own craft. Yes, RP fighting lends you control, but it removes restraint. Yes, RP fighting has given strength to the weak and options to the fearful, but has left our minds feeble and unkind.  

We've cut out holes that only we, as individuals, may fit into, expecting it to be the same shape for anyone else who might try to step inside, and so we've shut ourselves in. We've developed a science of warfare that we've mistaken for poetry. We've barricaded ourselves inside a fastness of frustration and angst, believing it freer and worth the price. And now we have something simpler, something that does not imitate creativity, but requires it. Something that forgoes the process and free-design of RP fighting for tension, for climax, for denouement, for swift resolution, and to see the world keep going without so much as a shrug in place of the cataclysm an RP fight very well may have left in its wake.

We've given this a try for over a year and a half. Let's try something else.

 

Alright, so I am going to give my twenty-one gun salute. Are you ready?

 

1. We have players from all over the world, of different ages, who consume different media.

Some people watch Anime, some people watch the Matrix, some people

self-glorify and imagine themselves in unrealistic situations. From

this, we have different players backed by their own cliques pushing

certain players in their RP fight endeavors, I have seen too much

powergaming from players who think they are in the safe. RP fighting has

caused so much drama because we get into our "Team Jacobs who can

backflip and throw a hatchet point-blank as if this is Call of Duty" and

their 'Team Edwards who watches Bleach and think they can parry five

swords at one time. People forget to comprehend the fact that even

movies are choreographed to have characters win a fight, Darth Maul

should have beat the tar sands out of tired ol Obi Wan Kenobi and now we

have players thinking they can pull the shindig. Likewise, staff are

not hive-mind, even the staff suffers from the problem that they have

different interpretations due to their own experiences as to what the

human body [or other Races] is capable of. Whether it is anime

distorting our view of the human body or uber-realists cringing that you

didn't allow 22 seconds to crank that crossbow-baby up; PvP throws this

out and makes players think outside of the box; ironically taking

either terrain into account [which is hardly taken into account from my

staff PoV] or use tactics.

 

2. This server was never heralded as a 'Heavy RP server', we realised that we

had to go to our Download folders and pop up that Minecraft.exe to even participate

in LotC. This is a Minecraft server, stop abusing the English language and

stating what it is not. LARPing is probably the closest to Hardcore RP

as you will get and most will be anguished to realise that you can't

pull half the stunts pulled on LotC during my tenure atleast. Stating

that 'you are a bad RPer if you use mechanics rather than actually RP"

does two poorly-thought out things:

 

a: You fail to remember that the Aegis system, you had to RP proficiently to

instigate a clash of swords so to speak, don't attempt to blackmail or degrade

those who see the sense in leaning on RP-PvP as 'trying to turn this into MineZ'.

 

b: I reckon us staff should banhammer you if you right-click to eat food

"RP eating and suck it up if hunger bar beats you down into the reality

that this is Minecraft", right-click to purchase from shops, left-click

to access levers and buttons to gain access to certain areas.

 

3. RP fighting takes too much time, whether from players who may have IRL

priorities that they thankfully line up before a game thus allotting

themselves only so much time to play Minecraft. This has actually been

an issue even amongst staff as we get called to try and cut down people

prolonging to either metagame [known as stalling] or drive the other

person into a face-desk at the fact that it is now 6:30PM when he hopped

into the fight at 5:45PM. Players can easily abuse by prolonging a

fight whilst fighting a war with words alongside their clique to shame

and degrade the player that is still fighting. Ties back into #1.

 

4. Lag actually makes you better in PvP as your hitbox is harder to get a registered hit mind you all. Likewise, spam-clicking DOES NOT work, Blawharag proved this.

 

I hope this persuades people into either throwing out their illogical

arguments or at the very least persuades people to give the ol Aegis

Rp-PvP system a chance. Thank You for hearing me out!

There's a few arguments for you, since I don't need to conjure my own. Tackle them if you will.

The server will never be Default-PvP because there is only so much mechanics can do. 

Never, you say? I'm afraid to say that the likelihood of this passing is nigh 95%. And also, magic users are the some of the ones who can demand RP default. Just to clear things up.

I would honestly love PvP if the following things are met when the system is introduced:

 

1. When wearing armour you are slowed down. Bring back the plugin - there isn't going to be anymore RP fights so special armors that don't give you any penalty and are as durable as steel aren't really in play.

 

2. Cannot pull armour from your bottom. You can't shift click your armour on before a fight unless you have RP'ed wearing it before. If you are going to RP putting it on, it must not be one emote and you are all set for the fight. (Also, do you just carry your armour on your back?)

 

3. Keep the knockout plugin, and the winner tells the other to /damage 20.

 

4. RP is default for magic users unless an appropriate plugin has been added in to re-place that.

 

5. Items such as fish and brews are not allowed in any PvP fight.

 

6. Make many different changes to MC weapons. There should be at least 3 different types of swords: Daggers, One-Handed Swords, Greatswords. Swords, Axes and Picks (Hammers and other blunt weapons) should all have their own bonuses in PvP such as Swords being faster hitting and axes having more damage on armour and picks giving you slow or blindness. 

 

Other than that, the system would clear up a lot of the headache of a lot of the aspects that make people angry about the server.

 

EDIT: If any of my ideas have already been discussed or solved forgive me for I didn't really have the time to go through 50 pages of comments.

Go watch the livestream/check out Boogerbuster's blog! It contains info about the plugin Telanir is developing to introduce so many more mechanics into PvP, making it more reliable in the realm of roleplay and LoTC. If anyone hasn't checked out the livestream/blog, go CHECK IT OUT NOW!

http://www.lordofthecraftblog.blogspot.com/ ((Blog!))

Considering everyone and their mother has posted on this thread, I decided I might as well give in my opinion. 

 

I was around during Aegis, and I have seen what happens with a fully PvP system. To be honest, some of it was great. We could simply have great roleplay before a battle and then fight it out in a balanced way, before going in our own ways. The problem with this system though, is that what about all of the RP a swordsman may do to improve themselves? Every swordsman character I have played has preformed intensive roleplay about improving his skill as a swordsman. What happens if we institute a PvP based system like this? Well, my swordsmen that I have played, and worked on for a long time, could be beat by a three year old child in a fight using the older PvP system. 

 

I am going to side with the roleplay system just for that reason. It would be pointless to carry out so many military drills and actions just to have it ended by a three year old character spam-clicking you to death. To be honest, I loved the old PvP system, I simply do not believe it will work here. Things were different then, and the server has changed. With magic being used more than ever before, and serious roleplay going into swordsmen characters, I simply do not believe this is the way to go.

Have you checked out the livestream? Telanir is developing a plugin to fix all of that. More is to come, but it is definitely something to check out!

There were a lot of little things that amounted to that achievement, and the combat mechanics were certainly one of them. No doubt, the entire landscape of RP, as LotC recognized it, changed or started changing when RP fighting became the hot topic. It's amounted to blisters like Kingston, which is universally agreed upon to be a place sorely lacking in wholesome roleplay, leading to its eventual condemnation. However, the continuation of RP fighting will no doubt continue to be the abrasion that allows for further blisters. We've popped one (Kingston), but there will likely be others. And where there aren't hot spots that anyone can point out and say, "we don't go there anymore," there is all of the sub-par and contrived combat that fills the gaps in the isolated spaces between what could be described as civilization, like so much puss deserving of several moist cloths. 

We've entertained RP fighting for about a year and a half now. What good have we accomplished with it? Is there a crowning moment that the server can recognize as across the board as something monumental, that wasn't of our own design, that didn't go too far, that maintained an unfaltering level of normalcy, reason, and logic? Perhaps. Maybe there's a good handful of folks who've had their share of personal poetry dedicated to glorious combat, a veritable monument unto themselves. More likely than not, however, that singular cluster of moments that are like beacons to you exist in lonesome among a sea of dark, nebulous frustration. When I talk to people about RP fighting (even just by uttering the phrase), there isn't any story (good or bad) that isn't prefaced by a long exasperated sigh.

I want to say we've brute-forced creativity, that we've forsaken responsibility in lieu of a system that caters to the lowest common denominator, but, while I do trust this, it isn't entirely true. I would feel more comfortable saying that we've given up on it completely. Where did our imaginations flutter off to that we can't fix for ourselves a few simple interpretations of encounters that don't come pre-packaged with imagery and implications? When did combat become as common as conversation, that we can't see options that stand in contrast to violence?

The one thing that RP fighting has done that I cannot simply forgive or forget is the tidal wive of encouragement it has lent brutish characters who rely on their meager skills with a blade rather than their wits (or common sense). A certain level of sophistication has gone extinct between the start of an encounter and the eventual brawl that has made mindless violence so approachable and, thus, common. I will admit, I can understand the appeal of controlling every little digit of your character as though s/he were a marionette, thrown into a customized locomotion to satisfy personal visual desires and themes, but maybe that's not such a good thing. Maybe we've been given too much control, and we've spoiled a good thing. RP fighting has pulled away the direction and structure of simple design, entirely, allowing for just about anything to slip through, with nowhere to go or where to stop. We've watered down our beer, we've washed away the spice, and I believe that many people can agree that a lot of water has slipped through, thus squelching any and all taste.

Are we so afraid of change that we cannot muster the courage to give this a try? Ironically, we would likely discover that combat would be less common, and that's all we tend to complain about. More than that, we wouldn't be devoting so much of our resources, so much of ourselves, to lengthy yet temporary battles that we're likely fuming about by the end and try as we might to forget (and that the world will forget), anyway.

 

Yes, RP fighting gives you details, but they are biased by your own craft. Yes, RP fighting lends you control, but it removes restraint. Yes, RP fighting has given strength to the weak and options to the fearful, but has left our minds feeble and unkind.  

We've cut out holes that only we, as individuals, may fit into, expecting it to be the same shape for anyone else who might try to step inside, and so we've shut ourselves in. We've developed a science of warfare that we've mistaken for poetry. We've barricaded ourselves inside a fastness of frustration and angst, believing it freer and worth the price. And now we have something simpler, something that does not imitate creativity, but requires it. Something that forgoes the process and free-design of RP fighting for tension, for climax, for denouement, for swift resolution, and to see the world keep going without so much as a shrug in place of the cataclysm an RP fight very well may have left in its wake.

We've given this a try for over a year and a half. Let's try something else.

 

Tossing this out for any newcomers to the thread.

If you haven't already, go watch the livestream! Tis very informative!

By the promise of "in-depth RP" and "fair combat", brutes have risen to power. But they LIE, they do not fulfill their promises and they never will. They free themselves, but they enslave anyone who doesn't powergame, subjecting them to death or being forced to make a report and go through

all that BS.

 

Let us fight to fulfill those promises through PVP, let us fight to free the server, to do away with hour long RP fights and players exploiting RP fighting. Let us make this a better server.

Shall anyone who's against PvP attempt to refute Gaius'/Blindmind's points? 

 

Because really, it'll be the only way to convince me.

Shall anyone who's against PvP attempt to refute Gaius'/Blindmind's points? 

Because really, it'll be the only way to convince me.

There were a lot of little things that amounted to that achievement, and the combat mechanics were certainly one of them. No doubt, the entire landscape of RP, as LotC recognized it, changed or started changing when RP fighting became the hot topic. It's amounted to blisters like Kingston, which is universally agreed upon to be a place sorely lacking in wholesome roleplay, leading to its eventual condemnation. However, the continuation of RP fighting will no doubt continue to be the abrasion that allows for further blisters. We've popped one (Kingston), but there will likely be others. And where there aren't hot spots that anyone can point out and say, "we don't go there anymore," there is all of the sub-par and contrived combat that fills the gaps in the isolated spaces between what could be described as civilization, like so much puss deserving of several moist cloths. 

We've entertained RP fighting for about a year and a half now. What good have we accomplished with it? Is there a crowning moment that the server can recognize as across the board as something monumental, that wasn't of our own design, that didn't go too far, that maintained an unfaltering level of normalcy, reason, and logic? Perhaps. Maybe there's a good handful of folks who've had their share of personal poetry dedicated to glorious combat, a veritable monument unto themselves. More likely than not, however, that singular cluster of moments that are like beacons to you exist in lonesome among a sea of dark, nebulous frustration. When I talk to people about RP fighting (even just by uttering the phrase), there isn't any story (good or bad) that isn't prefaced by a long exasperated sigh.

I want to say we've brute-forced creativity, that we've forsaken responsibility in lieu of a system that caters to the lowest common denominator, but, while I do trust this, it isn't entirely true. I would feel more comfortable saying that we've given up on it completely. Where did our imaginations flutter off to that we can't fix for ourselves a few simple interpretations of encounters that don't come pre-packaged with imagery and implications? When did combat become as common as conversation, that we can't see options that stand in contrast to violence?

The one thing that RP fighting has done that I cannot simply forgive or forget is the tidal wive of encouragement it has lent brutish characters who rely on their meager skills with a blade rather than their wits (or common sense). A certain level of sophistication has gone extinct between the start of an encounter and the eventual brawl that has made mindless violence so approachable and, thus, common. I will admit, I can understand the appeal of controlling every little digit of your character as though s/he were a marionette, thrown into a customized locomotion to satisfy personal visual desires and themes, but maybe that's not such a good thing. Maybe we've been given too much control, and we've spoiled a good thing. RP fighting has pulled away the direction and structure of simple design, entirely, allowing for just about anything to slip through, with nowhere to go or where to stop. We've watered down our beer, we've washed away the spice, and I believe that many people can agree that a lot of water has slipped through, thus squelching any and all taste.

Are we so afraid of change that we cannot muster the courage to give this a try? Ironically, we would likely discover that combat would be less common, and that's all we tend to complain about. More than that, we wouldn't be devoting so much of our resources, so much of ourselves, to lengthy yet temporary battles that we're likely fuming about by the end and try as we might to forget (and that the world will forget), anyway.

 

Yes, RP fighting gives you details, but they are biased by your own craft. Yes, RP fighting lends you control, but it removes restraint. Yes, RP fighting has given strength to the weak and options to the fearful, but has left our minds feeble and unkind.  

We've cut out holes that only we, as individuals, may fit into, expecting it to be the same shape for anyone else who might try to step inside, and so we've shut ourselves in. We've developed a science of warfare that we've mistaken for poetry. We've barricaded ourselves inside a fastness of frustration and angst, believing it freer and worth the price. And now we have something simpler, something that does not imitate creativity, but requires it. Something that forgoes the process and free-design of RP fighting for tension, for climax, for denouement, for swift resolution, and to see the world keep going without so much as a shrug in place of the cataclysm an RP fight very well may have left in its wake.

We've given this a try for over a year and a half. Let's try something else.

 

Blindmind, you have once again done the community justice.

Guys, remember Telanir's upcoming plugin. 

If you haven't watched the livestream, go watch it /now/.

It's not supposed to be a PvP-RP server... it's a Roleplay server.

PVP can very much be RP. It only takes imagination, something vital to roleplay servers.