blindmind

Hey folks, it's that guy you don't know! It's been a long, long time since I've touched this account, but I've had Minecraft on the mind lately, and that got me thinking about all of you. I saw this thread, and, well, I just had to write something up. For anyone that might actually remember me: whaddup! Sorry for another lengthy post from me! Here's a quote box for formatting purposes:
 

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Brief background on who I am:

• started in the 3rdish month of the server with a trash app that probably wouldn't get accepted today
• was there when the first king of Oren died
• walked through the ruins of the first(?) dwarven city
• fought on the frontline of Alstion and Snowyfields against the Undead encroach toward Al'Khazar
• was one of the only humans in Aegis to (very briefly) visit the Nether and return with my skin
• was a trash GM later on (life stuff precluded me from actually contributing in any meaningful way)
• and a whole bunch more!

 

During that time, I had the privilege of running a character that rubbed shoulders with the original Mage's guild, Ascended, Undead (but mostly their proxies for the sake of my character's health), and just about every shady entity that happened to be around before the fall. I funded rebellions, turned friend against friend, and watched many people's characters die.

I had no special permissions, no special friends, no magic, no martial ability. All I had on my side was typing speed, a decent vocabulary, and time. My character was, on paper, as normal as they come. My goal with him was to see just how far I could get with words alone, without people actually knowing much at all about my character. To one person, he might've been a wealthy aristocrat, a dear confidant to another, a snake to one, and a spy to the rest.

It was a blast!

Since then, I've written what can only be described as a wasteful number of words on these forums attempting to move the dialogue in a direction that would break the status quo and recapture those glory days. In that regard, I'd say I've largely failed. So, why say anything now? I haven't logged on much in several years now, but I can tell just by glancing through this thread that pretty much all the same issues are negatively affecting the players. Those being:

• an enormous map spreading the playerbase too thin
• feature creep and amped up restrictions
• Discord of the Craft and player cliques
• inattentive, overloaded, and perhaps even corrupt staff
• a general lack of direction
• an unwillingness to "kill your babies"

I imagine your typical new player has zero clue what's going on as far as current events go, no way to interact with the game as they might normally expect, nobody to talk to, and not enough time on their hands to no-life it until a character arc reveals itself. For all intents and purposes, they are Other, and will no doubt feel unwanted and unnecessary. This person is up against established players who, historically speaking, don't log into the server, but instead control the political machine through Discord, google docs, and regurgitated memes shared between friends. If they're lucky, and if they stalk slightly more established characters long enough to stop talking in RP and start talking in OOC, they can start their way toward something that looks like progress.

Meanwhile, the forums are likely on fire for this or for that, and much of the staff's time is spent on the site resolving whatever they can, or doing the best they can do to blend into the background while logged in and getting whisper spammed by randos.

I don't know know who the big names are nowadays, but the behavior is probably similar if not the same, even if the seats have new butts in them.

A new player deals with all of this, only if they can manage to navigate the massive map with which they have no familiarity, and no context to guide them.

Is there a solution?

Maybe? Like I said, these issues are so old they're basically tradition, but I'd say there's light at the end of the tunnel, yet. I'm a fan of extreme solutions, so my suggestion would be more seasonal content. You're likely familiar with what I mean; temporary and enclosed periods at the end of which almost every single detail is refreshed and returned to zero.

You've almost experienced this in the form of new maps, but that solution never quite hits the mark does it? It fails to fully reset everything. All of the nations, families, legacies, friend groups, and even some characters survive from map to map, bringing the same problems to a new country. We need damn near complete historical erasure:

• Obliterate the families, the rich, the poor, the popular, and the obscure
• Reestablish lore going forward, and give yourself permission to bury old lore for something new
• Refuse the continuation of any stories from season to season (smaller characters will leak through, but major ones cannot)
• Refuse power to those players who have held it in the previous season
• Wipe out inventories and item storage
• Consider outright resetting the map to day 1 each season

And that's not all. The staff needs to offer a baseline for what, exactly, the world is and make sure everyone abides by that vision. You're the Dungeon Masters. You decide what the game is and what it is not. This means you'll need to:

• Reestablish and encourage social behaviors through video guides
• Reestablish narrative themes through video guides
• Reestablish histories and potential player backgrounds as necessary
• Seed important secrets throughout the world to give players a mystery they can own
• Push players toward a goal as a whole, give them something to be afraid of, and don't be afraid to be the villain
• Research how to DM
• Watch Season 1 of Westworld and write down everything Anthony Hopkins says
• Don't forget to market each seasonal refresh

Do the above and you're less likely to play the same game that's been played by everyone here for the last however many years. Just as well, you'll provide many more points of entry for new players, as they'll be closer to equal footing than ever before.

Thank you to anyone who reads all of this. I had a lot of fun writing it all out and thinking about old times.

Yours truly,

Someone who doesn't need to read up on current events to know what's going down

 

-snip-

Take a breather, man.

Anyway, I feel like you're dancing around very specific scenarios without mentioning them and associating my arguments with those scenarios. Ironically, I've taken part in a bunch of wars myself, solely on the side of Oren. I only play humans, and I've been in favor of PvP default since the beginning (though that is irrelevant). That said, I still disagree with this. 

This document, as it is written, doesn't actually offer anything we can work with. Everything else is pretty off-topic.

Also, be careful about using the "this doesn't concern you" argument. For one, war is a global concern assuming I never even set foot on a battlefield. For two, the argument will be turned against you by all the people "[hiding] as much as they like." Its a double-standard, much like the majority of this thread. Regarding this, the post I'm quoting now has been seen countless times in the past, but with the word "militant" replaced with "magic" or "peaceful." By the sound of it, you're through the looking-glass now, Alice.

I won't argue that the system Aetosion and I have proposed is subjective, but it's not exactly self serving.  It was crafted, revised and posted with terms favorable to any or all parties reviewing it, not just my own (in fact I'd go so far as to say if I solely had devised this and not Aetosion, things would be much more biased - I have no shame in admitting that, that is simply LOTC).  That said, the relevance of subjectivity is, in my opinion, debatable.

 

No, a "world council" was not at all what the post suggested.  Merely a set of rules, a clause that nation and military leaders would sign and swear to follow and uphold - the latter, of course, will be argued in the fashion of "what's to stop them from breaking the rules".  Nothing.  Just as there was nothing to stop Napoleon from returning from Elba.  Still, I don't see it this herculean feat to keep these rules upheld by all parties because, again, they're not one sided - and I argue this as merely the one who posted them, rather than their creator (Aetosion).  I'd reckon confidently that this system could be upheld on account of OOC 'chillness' between nation leaders - there has been fire and ice in the past, but it all but settles the lion's share of the time.  It's not exactly a concept so incredibly intricate to understand, and massive amounts of checks and balances on a minecraft rp are redundant and a waste of time - I believe the vast majority of nation and military leaders will agree with me on this.  Now, of course - an outright removal of this 'consensual warclaim' BS is something I gravely support, but also something that has no chance of succeeding from what I've seen thus far, because of "Oren trolls" as is the nickname for any militant human RPers, whom, from what I've personally observed, are a majority amongst the server.  But I digress.  This system is a realistic alternative to such.

 

An OOC team, neither, was suggested, though it may assist if truly unbiased people like shiftnative were able to oversee it.

 

The "black and white" system you suggest, while cool to me, is incredibly advanced - far too advanced for a minecraft online roleplay fantasy server insofar as players (most in their teens) having a good time.  If you had to take most those into account based on minecraft's mechanics, wars would be incredibly and unrealistically rare, activity would decline amongst LOTC's majority, that is militant RPers of any race, and general server entertainment would decrease, by my own approximation, bearing in mind the aforementioned.

You seem to undermine your first paragraph by referencing Napoleon. This would imply that the rules set out by the document are, in fact, subjective. What may have been wrong for everyone else was clearly right in the eyes of Napoleon. As for the second and third paragraphs, regarding a team of overseers, I was piggy-backing off of other comments you have made outside of the OP. I tend to read the thread as a whole before I post. None of this, however, changes the fact that what the OP shows is not actually any kind of system that would moderate wars in a minecraft server.

The bureaucracy of the "black and white" system is a necessary evil. It would be in place for the benefit of those who enjoy war too much and those who don't appreciate it at all. From my own experience, I know that the server would not notice the waning activity of all the players upon which the server apparently hinges. I've seen this argument before and I think its kind of silly. Wars and military-focused roleplay, in its current form, were barely around when the server started rolling. If anything, it was a distant flash-in-the-pan seen in quiet guilds that nobody really bothered with. I would liken it to the flavor of the month that lasted a bit longer than a month. If all these people were to stop doing what they're doing, or leave entirely, their roleplay would be replaced by something else.

Besides, wars should be rare and they should be important. Frequent wars betray their significance and undermine the entirety of roleplay behind them. Otherwise, war feels like a skirmish between two gangs looking for a scrap in the crappy part of the city. It just happens, you live with it, you forget, and worry more about your rent check. Life goes on as though your war never happened. 

As lofty as this reads, I fail to see the system behind it. I can see its value in roleplay to a limited extent. The reason I say this is because its definitions are entirely subjective, which has always been the greatest, immutable flaw of the server and its community.

I see the idea would be to erect a world council which would enforce the ideals set by the document, but I cannot see that holding much sway over world politics unless some supernatural force exerts its will over the nations and their war machines. The most I can see this offering is a list by which to tabulate the innumerable slights between nations as one nation steam rolls another. A world council cannot succeed so long as power is not balanced and politics are so easily manipulated (the greatest and worst thing about them).

Much like the actual UN, a world council serves as a courtesy that isn't always extended. Unless a force outside of mortals' control is able to moderate what happens, this would be at the mercy of very unstable roleplay.

If we had an OOC team managing this, I would not have much faith in it. My concerns might be assuaged if the Devs were to oversee this and act on what they feel appropriate, as they tend to be far away enough to be indifferent and have the long-term in mind. In this case, I'd like to see a proper "black and white" system written out that objectively details what constitutes war, when its valid, how often it can be waged, its costs, the methods by which it can be declared, how it is determined that war has ended in victory or defeat, etc.

What we have here are a nicely written set of terms, justifications, and foggy limitations. To put this simply, if I lead a nation, I would use this. If I managed a minecraft server filled with people separated by culture and disparate perspectives, I would not.  

I've heard that Titan Quest is generally okay. Haven't played it myself, though. The wonderfully titled Two Worlds II, however, should remain at the bottom of the bargain bin, unloved and forgotten.

Sky, about to get lost in the green of his rep farm.

I wish the song were true, though. I've probably spent too much time debating, myself.

 

The main cities and nations are all clustered near eachother. 

 

If this is true, then this means that someone, somewhere appreciated my past ranting. It warms the cockles of my heart.

That Cloud Temple looks very familiar.

We had gender pearls, demons, fart powered rockets. People roleplayed those things, and we had fun experiencing it. We rolled with it. We were fine with it. It was clever, fun, creative and interesting. Goddammit, we RP'd hyperbolic time chambers back in the day, and it was fun! Yes, we had completely stupid ****, but the dumb **** wasn't the problem, it was the terrible execution done by a roleplayer that wasn't up to anyone's standards. 

 

In addition to this, the bad roleplayers with terrible ideas and execution were taken care of quickly. 

For me, these or the most important points here. When describing that era of LotC, these two paragraphs don't really mix. I know a lot of people, myself included, that stopped logging on because of the first paragraph, and because it wasn't handled as the second paragraph would suggest.

A lot of people thought it was fun, no doubt, but it was also in shambles. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

Read, always and forever.

Ashhad Al-Mubarak spots the post somewhere along the main road of Thales, alongside his fellow, Volundr. "A moment," he says as he peruses the text. "The ingredients will remain, despite this pause. I should like to keep current on such affairs."

The note is long and passionate, its context unfortunate enough to draw out a low grumbling from Ashhad. "It would seem, then, that Seventis... or the village bearing its name has been razed. They cry for the ways of old, for bygone Al'Khazar that bent to conquest. You know the stories, Volundr, I am sure. The plague that followed... It is why my line stayed so very far away, you know. Somewhere, along our turgid histories, I believe humanity took a greater curse into its flesh, consigned to the carved hearts of our remainder.

"Whatever awful work was done has embrittled the progeny of our great past, now misused, and for what purpose? Unity through egotism, perhaps, but I cannot say for certain. I am not a man who cares deeply for strangers, mind you, but the wisest course for these men would be to pursue resilience, to endure in whatever form they should require, instead of inviting this curse deeper into the traps that rattle inside our chests... Volundr? I said a battle would be imprudent, what do you say to that?"

Ashhad throws out a frustrated gesture as Volundr pores over his own alchemical notes.   

Or maybe sticking to the most definitive theme of the server would serve as a better example to those who would wish to join the community and those who have had instead of playing as ridiculous creatures because it's "xDDD LE FUNNY" (such as potato monsters and nine-tailed mages), as it dillutes the legitimacy of the server's established fantasy genre. Total roleplay freedom is bad and promotes fictious diversity, which carves the path to the server becoming much like a fanfiction MMO where everyone can step beyond set boundaries because "it's fun."

I love you. 

The Form:

Your Name: Ashhad Al-Mubarak

Your Age: 24

Your Race: Human

What affinity of magic are you skilled in?:

Alas, I have no proficiency but my eagerness to learn

and a summary knowledge of alchemy. I should like

to explore the potential of what skills I discover at the Guild.

-OOC-

MC Name: edronos

Skype: blind_mind

When did you join the server?: July 2011

"Dwarves from their mighty halls, of stone, hardened and sturdy." (

http://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/4621-the-history-of-magic/?hl=magic )  This is the explanation granted towards the use of runesmithing, golemancy, beardmancy and other dwarven magics, but lore written for our race around the same time  tells that we traded our connection to the void in exchange for a longer lifespan (I think)

 

That thread doesn't give reason for our connection tot he void because countless lore written after that has changed the state of magic since then.

The power of Iblees was great, even in void, and he worked at unravelling the barrier between the worlds... Soon the barrier began to break down, the Undead taint spread once more across the face of Aegis. Although this time there was little hope for salvation...

With the failing of the barrier protecting the world of the living from the dead the magic lost to the Descendants, all those years ago, once again seeped into the fabric of the world. The people of Aegis once more felt a somewhat unfamiliar tingle in their blood, unfamiliar but as though it was always there.

This is pretty important to the way magic works (or worked if we're arguing this is not the case anymore). The link is still valid in this context since many of the people here are saying their lore takes precedent due to the fact that it was in practice during Aegis. Likewise, I say this lore was fact during Aegis, regardless of its status, now. The point is, saying your lore is practiced doesn't necessarily mean it was legal, so to speak, when the lore at the time stated that magic rekindled in all the peoples of Aegis. What the Lore Masters are stating is more or less a reiteration of how magic worked to begin with.

To sum up, this seems more like a cultural issue than a factual one. I believe Luchian made a post in the thread preceding this one about how Dwarves are taught to believe they cannot connect with the Void, and that's perfectly logical. Cultural barriers can be strong ones. However, nobody has really provided any palpable reason or proof as to why this is not a cultural issue and down-to-the-DNA mechanical issue specific to dwarves.

I did some digging and found this old thing: link

I remember when magic was released in Aegis, it was literally released, like a gas into the atmosphere. Everyone is breathing this stuff in, now. When magic was a public thing, it awoke in the blood of all things, and you needed the Mage's Guild to help you harness your newly awakened powers.

Now, having said this, isn't this lore as guilty as those it fails to restrict? You have your non-Ironguts claiming to have magic because they said so, and your Ironguts saying only their blood unlocks magic because they said so.

There's been an official decision one way or another, and by my memory, it would seem one was made with the release of magic. 

Lago has been hitting the nail on the head, pretty much. I mean, let's look at this another way. Let's say there were no humans, and the rest of the races had several different kinds of animal features and magic wasn't a thing. If that were the norm, you would need lore for human wizards with no animal features.

A lot of people want the server to look a different way, me included. Some people want more steam-punk. Some people want Dragon Age, others the Witcher. Some people want anime. There's a lot of wants. To use a really simple example, I could say the server should be red, while another person says it should be green, when in fact the server is blue.

The mental link was created not to make a group.

This is something you could definitely play up, however. Its a uniting factor among all those who choose to dabble in this magic, regardless of how they feel or what their motivations are. Even if you don't know about anyone else with the same experience, there's still this thing talking to you somehow, tugging on your interest. Its a kind of devil on your shoulder. I would hope that the lore characters are mysterious manipulators to fill that role.

Also, I'm still curious about what happens during the year of the ritual. What about it requires a year of time?

Thanks for answering pretty much everything else. 

I'm not sure if any new magics are being accepted/reviewed, but I'm gonna leave a bit of feedback for the fun of it. 

I like some of the ideas here, though I believe a kind of shapeshifting was in use a long time ago (by pretty much one dude, if I'm not mistaken). I don't believe it sees any practice today, or even if its allowed anymore, but that's why you wrote this up. I like the idea of shadowy forms. That is to say, I like the idea of a culture related to shadows. I also really enjoy anything that adds to ritualized magic (the greatest and inherently superior kind).

Shadows-things are widely regarded as pretty bad voodoo. This sets the score right off the bat. There's no vagueness about what you're encountering. Yonder shadow-man is probably evil and must be met in glorious combat or subdued. I also like the idea of this mystical, one-way connection. It means that, in whatever circumstance an individual performs this ritual, if s/he is successful, that person is immediately under watch. This lends a certain kind of intimacy and closeness to what would otherwise be a scattered group. Even if you do not wish to be under the sway of whatever force is contacting you, it can.

The first thing I thought of while reading this was how such a ritual could fail, and what that might entail. Something I thought might be interesting to consider is a kind of "between" existence while transforming. Or, at least, a state of being that sinks a character into shadow (as in a normal shadow like any other). The final step of the ritual would be to pull your own form out of that "between" world. If one should fail, or be made to fail, that character could be imprisoned in shadow. In this state, a character would maintain a foggy consciousness, but otherwise in a kind of stasis. This kind of thing could be used creatively, I think.

Perhaps someone wants an interesting way to kill off their character, assuming the chance to free it is lost. Or, maybe some crazy, yet ambitious individual sees this as a last ditch effort of preserving themselves for a future time, assuming their consciousness does not dissipate and someone is around to retrieve them by performing another ritual to free them. Then, they must hope their stasis/imprisonment did not drive them mad.

Anywho, there are some things to be wary of, here. Firstly, the characters you've set up probably wouldn't be in your control. If that's not the case, however, you're looking at some very likely negative reactions from the community. Nobody likes to see lore written to benefit, glorify, or otherwise artificially reinforce the coolness/appeal of a select group, which would probably include Yah’sharau and Khai’ihel. At the very least, they'd be resistant.

Secondly, the actual benefit of shapeshifting might make people hesitant. Right now, we see that a character, through this ritual, can acquire the appearance of one of the four races, but we don't know much beyond that. Can any form be chosen, or is one granted naturally? That is to say, could you look like a specific person? Is this appearance illusory? For example, would an elf that has changed into a dwarf have to contend with a dwarf's inherent greed? Are they now, down to its bones, a dwarf? If the change is real, how would this effect lifespan? How old would a 200 year elf be, should it choose a human form? While my previous suggestion can be seen as a way to postpone death, this might defeat it entirely, if the rituals are always successful.

I like the opportunity this provides for subterfuge and sabotage, especially from an evil and driven supernatural force (we need more of these kinds of things). And, if the person performing the ritual for the first time isn't evil, but desperate to escape from something, this would provide a kind of ***-for-tat roleplay. The person could then be considered indebted to whatever force allowed the ritual to proceed. I also think that its important to note that the ritual takes a year, in-game, to complete. One could not toss off and don new disguises like clothing.

Other than this, my suggestions would be to fluff up the actual ritual more. Add a lot of zany requirements (like black silk retrieved from the sarcophagus of a person laid to rest 7 days hence, worn as a shawl on a moonless night). Also, describe why this ritual takes so long. Is the person changing over this period of time, or is the ritual not ready for a specific reason until a year has passed? Or, is this person in the "between" world, incubating? Lastly, think about all the things in the previous paragraph.  

Oh, I'll volunteer. When I'm alone and nobody can hear me. And when its not in the middle of the night. So the cops don't come.
 
Edit:
 
Minecraft Name: edronos
Skype ID: blind_mind
Voices you prefer doing: You tell me!
Sound file (link please): https://soundcloud.com/blind_mind/that-first-one-i-dont-know

Double Edit Bonus File: https://soundcloud.com/blind_mind/ive-got-uppers-mr-frodo

The links might be a bit quiet (can be changed). Sounded a lot louder on my laptop before switching over to the desktop.

Iblees and the Undead VS Ascended.

The Clerics. 

 

The Base Lore. The original lore and all the important basic lore everyone has to know. Things our characters should already know or would know, so we avoid this turning into a meta series.

Also, the early history of the nations, like when Kal'Alras split from the Dwarves, or how Oren was originally like.

Ashhad Al-Mubarak approaches the box with his hands folded behind his back. He bows low before taking a ring. "You have my thanks, esteemed Headmaster," Ashhad says. "It is an honor."

 

I am that guy.

You lie!

I knew a guy in college that talked like this by default. All the time. I don't know how or why.

::OOC::
MC Name: edronos
Have you ever had a character with magic?: No.
Are you aware the rules of Magic: Yes.

::IC::
Name: Ashhad Al-Mubarak
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Race: Human
What would you like to learn?: Hereat, I should like to learn the concepts and applications of magic, as well as alchemy. Of all lofty branches of sorcery, I find enchantments and that which is arcane most curious.
Which Class(es) are you enrolling for?: The classes wherein I feel I shall fit are that of the Mage and of the Scholar, for in these two combined I believe all erudition is cradled.

Freya pretty much has it right. I'd +1 but I ran out of ammo.