deathmetus

MC name: deathmetus Forum Name: deathmetus (not to confuse anyone) Skype Name: deathmetus.will Do you feel you have a solid grasp on our lore and an understanding of the standards we have for applications? Yes, I do, I was a former ATeam member and I continue to keep up on current lore by coming on the server every so often, and forum lurking. Why you want to be an AT member? As being a former ATeam member I enjoyed the experience, and, now having more time on my hands, and wishing to give back to the community more I would like to rejoin the team, read some apps, enjoy the stories, and help those who need it by accepting, or in other cases explaining why I did not accept various apps to the writers.

*A letter of reply is sent to the young Shadow* "You are now accepted to the Clan of the Shad'rin, please report to Commander Malco for assignment and training. You may reach him by bird if you cannot find him."

Requirements ((Application)) To join our Clan you must be as neutral as possible, that does not mean you do not care at all for anything, it only means you have no ties you cannot break for the sake of the land. We are the lone wolves banding together for the sake of the people of this world. You also must be prepared to fight when necessary. We will have builders, and ambassadors, and gatherers, and other jobs but we all must be ready to take arms to defend our home and the land, wherever we are needed. You must also realize that we have loyalty only to the land, its people, and our Tenants. Do not think we are loyal to a specific king or leader, for if they should prove harmful to the good of the whole we must put a stop to it. We are the silent guardians, we watch over all for the sake of the Grand Scheme of Life not for the sake of any individual life. Remember this if you wish to join.... OOC Section Minecraft Username: Skype Name (Can be PMed if Necessary): Any Reports, Revokes, or Previous Bans: Link to VA application if you have one (Not Necessary): What is your Character's Alignment (Ex: Chaotic Neutral, Lawful Evil, Neutral Good, etc...) IC Section Your Name: A Short History of your Life: Any personal flaws you Understand and Know: What deeds have you done in life, good or ill: Why do you wish to join our Clan: Do you prefer to be put into Combat or Non-Combat Situations and Roles: What is your preferred fighting style when in combat situations: What do you prefer to do that is not related to direct combat: What are your reactions to these situations: The city is being taken over. The city is full of innocent people and still you have many defenders alive, however you are losing the city and they have begun to burn parts of it to take out your defenses. The leader of the enemy force has come to say that he searches for a child, a specific, presumably innocent child, and if you are to give him the child he will spare the city. This child happens to be your brother and last remaining family member. You know he will kill your brother. Do you give up your brother to save the city or condemn it to more fighting just to save your brother? An underwater tunnel is being constructed despite an almost certain loss of several lives [actually, all but certain]. Presumably the expected loss is a calculated cost that society is prepared to pay for having the tunnel. At a critical moment when a fitting must be lowered into place, a workman is trapped in a section of the partly laid tunnel. If it is lowered, it will surely crush the trapped workman to death. Yet, if it is not and a time consuming rescue of the workman is attempted, the tunnel will have to be abandoned and the whole project begun anew. Two workmen have already died in the project as a result of anticipated and unavoidable conditions in the building of the tunnel. What should be done? A fat man leading a group of people out of a cave on a coast is stuck in the mouth of that cave. In a short time high tide will be upon them, and unless he is unstuck, they will all be drowned except the fat man, whose head is out of the cave. But, fortunately, or unfortunately, someone has with him a stick of dynamite. There seems no way to get the fat man loose without using [that] dynamite which will inevitably kill him; but if they do not use it everyone will drown. What should they do?

History and Lore History of the Clan The Founding It was many years ago during a war known to many, and by many different names, the Rise of the Undead, the Fall of Aegis, the End of the World. It was during this dark conflict that the unity of the world was threatened, the long standing alliances between Nations, Guilds, and other Factions began to crumble and from these grew more and more groups that split and created inner conflict in what should have been a united front against the coming darkness. It was then that two men had visions, visions of a unified Aegis, a strong Aegis, a time where the people would fight together, and become stronger. These men were the Hochmeister Gaius Marius, and a Ranger known as Miles. These men each had visions of a Unified land. Yet they differed in their ideals, and almost simultaneously began their journeys towards a better life for the people. Gaius went on to found an Order of strength and order, an order of military men and women working together towards the common goal, and attacking and defeating many of their enemies. Miles began more silently, recruiting men and women from all over Aegis, first only in person, and then allowing news of his “Shadow Rangers” to be heard and then some few flocked to his Clan. Whereas Gaius was military, Miles was secretive and focused on subterfuge. Men flocked to both, though where Gaius grew to power, and became a great leader of a nation, Miles kept his operation small, located in the heart of the conflict. The Mantle of Responsibility A rich lord by name of Codrik joined the Clan as he felt in his heart the truest calling. He provided them with support in both close personal work, and a development of a home for the Clan. A small fortress was built, and there the recruits came to learn, train, and work in the Clan. Codrik so grew that he became Lieutenant to Miles, serving as a leader in all operations of the day to day. One day while searching in the archives for his family line, Codrik discovered an old legend of the protectors of old known as the Shad’rin. As he read the legend he became a believer that they were these protectors, that they were the new Shad’rin. Bringing this to Miles he asked to treat this as fact, to take up the Mantle of Protectors, as was told in the days of old. Miles, though not a believer in truth, granted him such, and so they became the Shad’rin. Under this new name the Clan flourished in Aegis, even then Miles wrote to the leaders of the realm and gained allies amongst Men in Oren, Elves in Malinor, the Traders of Alras, and the Soldiers of the Teutonic Order, even becoming friends with the great man Gaius Marius. However enemies were created as well. The Orc Clans who raided in the area became angered with the Shad’rin defiance and control, and so attacked them more than a few times, coming close to destroying the only home the Clan had ever known, however the Shad’rin survived through their growth, and a few secret alliances that helped to keep the Shad’rin alive. They even served in a time of National conflict between Alras and the Dwarves, holding the city for a few days while survivors left, and abandoned the once shining trade capital. However the Shad’rin were no military, and eventually Alras was abandoned completely. The End of Aegis Near the end of Aegis, many of the Shad’rin fought against the Undead, serving as well trained archers, and swordsmen who would fight together in small tactical squads striking all around the Undead. This was not enough, the Undead had grown in power, and the North was lost completely with the end of Al’khazar. However the Shad’rin did not abandon their post until the Undead had surrounded the area, then they left in secret and so the Shad’rin became homeless yet again, like many of Aegis. They wandered and eventually joined the men and women in the Verge and Codrik, having lost Miles, gathered up the living Shad’rin and built a boat to set sail for the new world. The Return and Reformation Some years later in Anthos it seemed that the Shad’rin had all but been lost to the history of Aegis, the Clan having been lost in the times of Asulon. Yet a figure from the long dead past returned, the founder and first Har’shadin. He saw that the Shad’rin had returned to a place called Darkhaven, where old members found new blood and together had worked restoring an old Fortress. He arrived by boat and was welcomed, many believing this Heralded a new age for the Shad’rin. Seeing the Shad’rin in such a weakened state, where few members remained he set about the task of restoring order and bringing back the Tenants of the Clan, reforming the Shad’rin, and hoping to restore it to its former state. The Myth It was during the time of the 30 Years War. Iblees had shown his true self raising an army of Undead against the mortals of Aegis. Aeriel raised her army of Ascended calling upon the Races to aid her in the war. In time those of similar beliefs were drawn together. They called themselves the Shad’rin, brothers and sisters in arms banding together to fight the evil that plagued their land. After the years of fighting, the Shad’rin slowly lost faith in the Ascended finding their trust better placed in the hands of of the people. Their numbers grew, yet the war continued on, an unending conflict of death and destruction. They soon found themselves estranged from the nations, hiding and waiting in the shadows only seeing the Undead as the true enemy. They ignored the conflicts of Nations altogether. They saw no reason to interfere with the Races and their personal politics as they had a much larger responsibility to handle. Their isolated war did not go unnoticed, years of fighting, training and blood spilt for a just cause against the Undead, as well as keeping to their strict code, led to more than a few of the Races taking interest in the Shad’rin. They were attacked and their great Clan was cut down to a few survivors in a single battle with other factions who saw them as a threat. The few that remained were lost, broken, and beaten. They felt unworthy and felt that they failed their code seeing the dead brothers and sisters around them. Then they heard a voice, a beautiful, soft, echoing song that rang throughout their minds. The voice told them to stand once more, to stand strong and unite. The few who were left stood strong and together, guided by the Angelic Voice. The Voice told them to watch from the shadows, learn all that they could, and to grow together and to grow stronger. Yet the Voice told them to remain neutral, to not seek power for themselves, but for all, and to use all of this to serve the people, and not themselves. The few found it challenging to follow these Tenants and yet they kept true and kept to the Code. They changed from fighting in the open to a silent, and careful Clan, staying to the shadows. They learned much, and grew in strength, using their power and knowledge to combat the Undead and any who attempted to destroy them. They realized in this that despite serving the good of the world, they had to make sacrifices and do actions which others could not, to commit crimes to do good. And while they sought justice, and unity, they did not seek to end all ills, and focused on forces that would rip apart the world and the people within it. People who sought to use and divide the land, and those in power who abused and harmed those they were to protect. In truth they became the watchers of the land, keeping an eye on both the greater evils, and the Nations themselves. The Voice finally revealed her name, feeling she had found men who were truly worthy of her Blessing. Theilas, she said, a half-breed of the lesser of the gods. She then gave the first true Shad’rin her blessing, a blessing that was noted in both the eyes and skin. Their eyes turned a deep and cold blue, and their skin became marked with small blue tattoos of unknown origin. They also began to feel it in their bodies, a dark, yet not evil presence within their very souls. A uniting presence that seemed to bind them all, mind and soul, to one purpose, one goal, one Clan. These men and women disappeared from History, though it was said, that in the Shadows they could be seen, as if they were part of the very shadows themselves. However all trace of them vanished some time after the Fall of Iblees and the founding of the Northern Kingdoms of Man.

We are a Clan of Men and Women dedicated to protecting the land for the people. We protect it by any means necessary. We break certain laws to protect the rights and lives of the people we serve and protect. However we are not a band of thieves, assassins, or bandits. We are neutral to all Nations and Factions and we are not a military force. We are scouts, diplomats, builders, farmers, and gatherers. We do train in combat, yet we always try to find other means to solve our issues. We believe in peace for the sake of peace. We do not discriminate against any race or religion, but if it causes one to have animosity towards other members then such a person will be removed. We watch over the people, but do not interfere with their lives unless it affects the land or the people as a whole. A single life, a single house of nobility, or even a single Nation could mean nothing in the grand scheme of life. We want the land to remain whole and at peace. We will do anything to achieve this goal. If a decision should be made to commit a few crimes for the greater good, we will do it. Ranks The Har’shadin The leader of the Shad’rin in spirit and in goals. While he/she does not run the day to day operations of the Clan, this leader serves as the master architect of the goals and the future plans to the guild. This person does not seek for power or glory, merely for a future of greatness for the Shad’rin and the World at large. Shadow Commanders The true leaders of the Clan. They run the day to day operations which can include anything from the management of the Fortress and new recruits: Fort Commander, to the development of naval control, scouting, and the development of Economic prowess: Fleet Commander, to the development of the Shad’rin in worldwide political standing as well as the creation of hubs for Shad’rin and contracts within the various cities and countries of the world: the Shadow Ambassador. ((Names are temporary as these positions need names that match more with the Shad’rin and the Har’shadin.)) Shadow Marked These are the fully blooded members of the Clan who carry out the work of the day to day operations. This can include the gathering of food and materials for maintenance of the and other Shad’rin Hubs, to the maintenance of the Shadow Fleet and the operating of banks and supply zones for trade with nations and the aid of refugees and those in need, to the act of actively scouting or the actions of completing contracts that are accepted by the Shadow Council for those who request the Shad’rin’s aid. Shadows New members who serve only to learn and gain an understanding for the Shad’rin and their place within it. They will train in the Fortress until they are ready for their first mission or contract as decided by the Council, then they may become fully blooded members. They may also serve to garrison the fort in times of strife and war, or in times when other clans seek to raid our lands. The Goals and Tenants The Tenants of Our Clan There are but three tenants that we must maintain as true Shad’rin. Neutrality We are neutral towards all nations, guilds, factions, and races as long as they do not actively seek to destroy our world. We are bound by no Kingdom. We do not take part in political conflicts nor conflicts between nations unless they threaten the world or the people we serve. Equality We are all equal together under the code and tenants of our Clan. All work is done equally by all members of the Clan. While we have Commanders, we do not set them above to rule, we set them to lead the men alongside them. Liberty ​We will do whatever is necessary to complete our goals, we are not bound by the laws of men nor the morals of the divine, we are only bound by our honor to serve the world at large. The Goals of Our Clan To balance the power of nations, guilds, and factions within the world, to remove that which too far splits established factions and weakens the land, and to remove those factions that are too powerful and upset the balance of factions.​​ To aid the people so that no man is subject to cruel establishment, no man dies of hunger, and no man lives alone on the roads without a choice. We serve the people, and while in serving the people we may gain glory or power, we do not seek such things for ourselves. To serve in any way possible to help those people who most need our help through contracts that we establish with the people throughout the land.

(For Paladins:) OOC: IGN: deathmetus Skype name(May be sent via PM’s): I'll PM IC (May be written as a letter, or personally seeking out a paladin) Name: Brother Renart ((Reynard Lycian)) Race: Human Age: I am not sure, my apologies Preferred weapon: A single Sword or a Bow. Why do you wish to join us on our journey: Because I once believed that in order to protect people we must build strong Kingdoms and Governments so that may protect our people, even if it required the laws of other kingdoms to be broken. Yet this has been proved time and again wrong, it is not an entity that must protect the people, but the people themselves. I wish to join in order to become another man who will protect those in the world who need protection, and to do it without the corruption and greed that had so filled many Kingdoms. Do you pledge your devotion to the order and Tahariae?: I do pledge my solemn and sacred oath. What do you believe the responsibilities of a Paladin are?: To protect the Order, to defend the meek, the help the needy, and to be a shield against the darkness that lies both within society and outside of it.

IC What is your name?: Brother Renart Do you have any previous military/combat experience?: Yes, formally of the Knighthood of Oren Why should we recruit you?: I am willing to serve, for the sake of the people, under the command of its officers, in order to protect the people against others and themselves. What is your preferred weapon?: A sword or a bow, but both I have used before. Do you currently own a home in Abresi?: Sadly I have no home as of right now. Are you aware of the laws of Abresi?: Most of them yes. (http://www.lordofthe...l=+royal +edict) OOC Minecraft Name: deathmetus How long have you been on the server for?: Since... July of Aegis. Do you have access to TS and/or Skype?: Yes, though Skype is currently a problem. If you have Skype, what is your name? : (Feel free to PM me) Roughly, how active can you be: As active as you need me to be, most weekdays and weekends, unless otherwise noted. Have you been banned before, if so, why: Once on a miscommunication with a GM, which was fixed. Otherwise no.

*After much consideration Brother Renart sets out and corrects many of his signs with the help of the other few members.* "I thought Holy Magic was approved by the Church. . . hmmm. . ." *He sets out to find the Archbishop in order to discuss this with him and question him further on the laws in order to keep his order alive.*

*A young looking monk places a few small signs throughout the Human Kingdoms. The most visible part of the sign is the symbol of the red cross.* http://www.lordofthecraft.net/forum/index.php?/topic/93211-the-brotherhood-of-the-red-cross/ *The young monk seems to head off to the city of Abresi*

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*Within the Human Kingdoms and near the Roads by the Cloud Temple there can be found a few small posters that contain the following information.* The Brotherhood of the Red Cross The Short History of Our Order The Order began in Anthos when a young Lord by the name of William Darkstar was knighted under the Holy Order of the Red Dragon. He then proceeded to help defend the capital against insurgents and rebels. However he watched as the Knights proceeded to cause injury and death, yet would do nothing to help those who were left dying in the streets. While he would not challenge the Imperial Crown nor his own Order he still felt his duty as a Knight to help those who sorely needed his aide. During this time there were a few doctors spread about the land, many of whom were alchemists and persecuted by the Imperial Crown for 'heretical practices'. He met with them privately giving them protection for their time and knowledge. In the years to come he had obtained a balance of swordplay, alchemic, medical, and tactical knowledge. He became a battlefield medic, and just in time. During this time creatures began to invade the Empire, and sickness plagued much of the land. He and others would bring sick and wounded into the Church in order to help them through their sickness and injury and perhaps even fix and cure a few of them. He then began to take on a few apprentices. While he did this he took the Red Cross for his personal sigil and traveled around as a Medic Knight. However he was but one man, and had few followers. He became very poor, and lost much of his prestige as a lord and knight. Deciding that he needed time alone he left to lands unknown, but gave his apprentice, by name of Renart, the challenge to bring together what he could not. Brother Renart traveled the land of Anthos hoping to find other like minded men, in order to create a Brotherhood of Man that would spend time to help better their fellow man through health and service. The Three Branches There are three branches within the order led by the Magni Magistri or the Grand Master. The paths of the Vestis, Ensis, and the Tincturam. Currently there are few members, and therefore the Three Branches are suspended, currently all membership is watched over by the Magni and Brother Renart until the Order is fully alive. They are searching for men with the skills in the art of Medicine, Protection, and Alchemy in order to create a true brotherhood to serve Man. Current Socio-Politico-Religious Information While this is a Brotherhood of Holy Monks and Knights, this brotherhood takes men from all walks of life as long as they swear to uphold the ideals of serving and protecting their fellow men. They serve God and in that serve this truth, but they treat all religions with respect. They deny no race nor creed, but they mainly serve within the Human Kingdoms. For Those Who Wish to Join Those wishing to join may send a letter to the Tavern in Abresi near the fountains to contact Brother Renart and the Magni Magister. Please include your race, year of birth and current age, talents within the areas of Combat, Alchemy, Medicine, and Healing Magics, any other talents such as cooking, farming, or blacksmithing, where you live if you have a home, and any other allegiances or titles you may have. Most of this is for the future of the growth of the Brotherhood and some of it is for documentation purposes. It is my sincerest hope that any unaffiliated doctors, medics, alchemists, and even Knights please do consider the brotherhood for the sake of your fellow man. Remember Knowledge is power and power should be used to help your fellow man, not to harm it. -Brother Renart

((Is House Lycian still exiled then? Or will that be able to be changed now? Not sure due to It being Godfrey's old command.))

This is the current system. First off, PvP vs. RP people. RP is only default if the players disagree. It is not default no matter what. You can still agree to do PvP if you want. Yes currently RP is the default option should disagreement arise, but PvP is still a viable and usable option, as well when someone just runs away without RP you can still auto-PvP them. However PvP will still favor those with better connections and better PCs. I use a laptop, however I have PvPed and lived before. PvP isn't the main issue, it is the amount of resources that many of these PvPers used to have. They had bandits with diamond and iron armor and weapons which was not RPly realistic or well liked by a vast majority of the server who got attacked by them on a day to day basis. Knights, Noblemen, and others who could realistically afford this armor did not have it as the bandits would generally have control of such supplies, and in the end these bandits began working for nations. PvP with the Undead was balanced to a point as the Ascended plus the rest of the server would fight them, they being unable to wear armor (except for the leaders) and unable to wield almost all conventional weapons. This allowed them to be easily killed once in full combat, but harder from afar or when they were in their towers and bases. I do not support a PvP return only due to finding for at least myself and a few others a compromise that works. When in the situation of "dodging every attack" and neither side will let the other get a hit in we should as I and a few others have used in the past the /roll 20. This allows that lucky shots or missteps can happen to these fearsome knights and master swordsmen. This is a balanced if not fair system. It is luck, it can speed up the process for those who wish for PvPs speed, and for those who dislike the amount of complaints they can lessen if the parties utilize this, as then we follow the dice roll and not our personal skill or preference, here is a small example from a friend of mine's RP. Bold actions are Emotes. *Thief rolls down the stairs to avoid knights* *Knights follow* *Thef tries to get up to run* *Knight A tries to jump on her* Thief /roll 20 (6) Knight A /roll 20 (12) *Thief cannot get up as Knight A lands on her* *Thief tries to break away* Thief /roll 20 (2) Knight A /roll 20 (8) *Knight A begins to pull one arm behind her stopping her from running* *Knight B pulls out weapon ready* Knight A "Knight B help me handcuff her" *Knight B puts away weapon and pulls out handcuff* *Knight A tries to grab her other arm* *Thief tries to punch Knight in the face with her other fist* Thief /roll 20 (18) Knight A /roll 20 (10) *Knight A is punched in the face, and looses grip rolling to one side* *Thief rolls to other side and tries to get up and run* *Knight B helps Knight A up quickly* *Knight A tries to grab Thief* Thief /roll 20 (20) Knight A /roll 20 (11) *Thief is barely missed and runs toward the market* *Knights follow* *Knight A comes around and blocks market* *Thief tries to jump over him by grabbing the top of a stall* *Knight A tries to grab her* Knight A /roll 20 (14) Thief /roll 20 (17) *Thief barely jumps over his head and runs to leave city* ((Thief: You guys wanna do MC running now?)) ((Knight B: That works.)) ((Knight A: Sure on the count of 3)) ((Knight A: 3)) ((Knight A: 2)) ((Knight A: 1)) ((Knight A: Go)) They proceeded to chase her out of the city, past more guards firing bows at her until they came to a cliff where she jumped and found herself landing in the ocean where she swam away. It was left to chance and will not always be in favor of the criminal or the guard but it is a system where we all could have a fair and equal chance. I will accept whatever the server as a whole may want, I just think RP to be more balanced and fun for those of us who wish to RP. That's my 40 cents. Edit: Also the RP I mention took 15 minutes max including the chase sequence, and this was after she was seen pickpocketing.

*Seeing the document he had sent to Celthric only hours earlier with a few revisions. After reviewing he takes out his quill and special ink. He dips it carefully making certain not to have too much excess. He then takes it to the document signing it in his own fashion.* Reynard Lycian, High Lord of Eyveror

*Hafnir sharpens his axe as he stands by the anvil. He looks at the dragon's fangs he had hard won. He still could not believe it. He remembers the battle of the few days past.* ********************* *Dwarves are shouting and running everywhere, the dragon is harpooned, but struggles firing fireballs and trying to kill the dwarves who hold him. His struggling knocks many dwarves back, yet Hafnir dodges the tail and wings flailing. He sees the Grand Marshall rallying the troops, ordering to attack and kill the beast. The neck becomes exposed, showing for a moment. Hafnir chrages, jumps and slices hard with his axe, cleaving the neck in half. As the head falls to the floor of the ship Hafnir drops to his knees as the blood of the dragon's neck sprays over him. The Grand Marshal, Kjell Ire'eart comes forward and takes the head, raising it above his head to show to all the dwarves. They all begin to cheer. The Grand Marshall turns to Hafnir and hands him several of the fangs of the beast. "You did well lad. 'ere take these, you did well." *The dwarves all celebrate the great death of the dragon. They turn to the hold for drinks and food. But Hafnir knows he had done it, he, a clanless dwarf, slayed the dragon.* ********************* *Hafnir comes back from his memories and takes the largest fang and sets it into a metal handle. He begins to hammer it in, and sharpen one edge of the fang. He continues to hammer it in, and seals it in by heating the iron and using leather to cover the handle. He sharpens it even more, careful to not touch the now hot blade. Testing the blade on the end of the anvil, it slices it almost off. . .* "'ll name it. . . Bloodfang. . ." *he speaks the words as he cuts himself, just by running his finger along the blade. He carves into the side the rune name for the sword and begins to fashion a sheath of a small amount of the dragon skin he had. He creates a second sword of similar look. He cools it more swiftly than its partner and the blade appears to have an almost icy, stony, look. It is cold, and seems to contain no heat, as he carves the name he speaks it aloud to himself, "and. . . Icefang. . ." he sheathes both on his back in their respective sheaths, stands, and goes upstairs to join his fellow dwarves.

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Perhaps a removal of the War Claims section as there exist no more War Claims and instead perhaps an area to explain the rules of war and a place for Lore on Current Wars where people can forum RP wars together instead of in their individual race sections and a subsection for archived wars where all the old war claims and wars can be locked and archived? Otherwise I think this was very well done and will help the server in many ways besides organization, it will most certainly help in communication as well.

Forgive me I am not normally this insulting but this makes me laugh. We all die, end of story, Pascal's Wager has nothing to do with that point of fact. Religion doesn't say we "don't die" it says there is a possibility of an afterlife, what the heck is wrong with that? Actually we have accurate information as to when and who the official "Bible" as many call it was written. The Torah or the "Old Testament" was discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls which are currently dated as far back as 200 B.C. presumably by the ancient Jewish population. However the "New Testament" and the first full Bible was compiled in 120 A.D. by the Council of Nicea. Why do you tell me that I "deny all the evidence of evolution" I clearly stated my opinion as in support of the Theory of Evolution as the most plausible explanation for how humanity exists as of this point in time. You are telling me what I believe? What the heck? Do you read? Heck I'm not even that bloody religious, but sincerely you are attacking someone who supports your side of the argument? The reason people may take so much of a problem to both sides, atheists who go as far to insult religion to the point of ridiculousness, calling it child abuse really? And theists who deny proven scientific processes based on the idea that "the Bible is the truth" is blindness. Your comments are in no way helpful to the discussion. You call things dumb, you tell me what I think and believe based on your own inhibited precepts, all in all you are downright insulting. And your grammar and spelling errors are easily fixable and yet they are there so clearly wrong. . . I think that that kid is a psychopath and not even his parents are the only reason for such behavior nor is his religious beliefs. In this day and age people on both sides of the bloody line need to be far more accepting of others personal creeds, religious beliefs, points of view on life, and sexual preferences. That is not a normal kid, not even by religious standards. True believers of religion should know something that most religions teach. Treat your damn neighbor as you want to be treated. Yes there are extremists out there on both sides of the line. I had a whole story to perhaps get you to understand my side, but sadly I look and hear the same words of an old priest who once told me I was dumb and would burn in Hell since I did not accept Jesus as my savior. I hear again the same words my Atheist friend who argued that "those who believe in religion are a bunch of mindless, sheep who are nothing more than idiots who look for anything to lead them." Your own words are that of a closed minded person who will not accept other beliefs, even if they are well-intentioned, even if they lead to people living full and good lives, you just cannot accept it, even if they agree with you in many, many ways. This is sad. . . I know no matter what I say, you will not agree with me, that's at least how I see it.

Believing in a God(ess) seems sufficient enough, who cares which one. Most promise an afterlife of some kind, take your pick, that's the idea. And to make a point I never specified which one I picked. (Yes Pascal's Wager traditionally does imply Christianity or the God of the Abrahamic Religions, but I never specified.) So I must state that Pascal's Wager can apply to any God, but please if you wish to continue a discussion on Pascal's Wager then by all means PM me, but the importance of this debate is specifically towards Evolution vs. Creationism (and other such things) and I do apologize for bringing this once again off topic.

I will state that not all religions have non-believers go to hell, in fact some lack what happens to non-believers or even just state that one must live a good life in order to move on to whatever be the afterlife/rebirth/enlightenment/what have you. Point of fact I'm not a Christian, my point is there seems to be no negative aspect to entertaining the idea that a God might exist and an afterlife might exist. In fact in the Jewish religion the idea of getting to the afterlife does not actually require one to be religious, but to be a good and just person within one's lifetime. If one's deeds outweigh one's misdeeds then they may go to Paradise. In all my life I have never been told that it required to be a devout follower to reach an "afterlife." Honestly doesn't the benefit outweigh the cost to believe in a God existing and living a good and moral life (Since it seems that most would prefer to live a good and moral life anyways) in order to possibly reach an afterlife that may or may not exist? Edit: Also in further consideration perhaps another way of looking at it is that if you don't believe perhaps you will it not to exist for you. Perhaps it is the belief as we die that creates the existence of an afterlife as we die? Food for thought. . .

Anyone for Pascal's Wager? "God is, or He is not" A Game is being played... where heads or tails will turn up. According to reason, you can defend either of the propositions. You must wager. (It's not optional.) Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is. (...) There is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite. And so our proposition is of infinite force, when there is the finite to stake in a game where there are equal risks of gain and of loss, and the infinite to gain. -Wanted to add more but really couldn't, I did read through the whole thread. . . too much- Bah, but I do believe that Science is the more advanced way to explain, define, and advance the world further. Religion is lovely, but it should not stop progress, ergo Evolution is a viable explanation to how humanity has come to be as it has, but religion is still worth believing in. (Even though many would than say I am not a true believer, still what do you have to lose really?)

*Nods slowly at Ante'vuln and seems to drift off and appear to be thinking deeply on other thoughts* ((Also going to be heading to bed I will continue tomorrow, and thanks for the great RP))

*Shrugs and drinks the last few dregs out of his flask* "But do forgive me, I am a Valah Immortalis, perhaps I have not lived long enough nor lived long enough with the Mali to truly understand how to think and consider as one who has more time than most. Do forgive me, but I am somewhat prone to more rash thinking due to my life I once lived. . ."