Whitebeard

I disagree entirely - they have always been a fundamental aspect of our economy. The claims that they 'ruin the economy' are fruitless. They simply actually give people money, and not even large amounts at that.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there Danny, sure the amount of money going into a players pocket may only be 50 minas or w/e rate you decide to set it at, but it with hundreds of players out there potentially farming mobs for Minas you are going to inflate the economy in a matter of weeks. The base rate of items will need to go up to compensate.

Can I comment on all these favoritism claims etc. First I shall state that the following are my own views and may or may not represent the views of the entire GM team.

This is not favoritism in my most objective viewpoint I believe that Rhia is well qualified for the position. She is a nice, responsible, assertive and patient person. The GM team should not be accused of favoritism because we enjoy spending time with an individual, we enjoy spending time with Rhia because she fits the traits of a good GM.

Let me explain this in a diagram type thingy.

(Fits traits of a good GM) ----> (GMs like to spend time with her because of her traits) ------> (Is Promoted)

That is all I wanted to say.

Brettdude20 - Lord Brett Perea

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The thread has been killed

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For those of you in the Eastern Hemisphere who do not celebrate Thanksgiving, surely you wouldn't complain about getting the chance to dine with fellow players and taking part in a wonderful celebration?

You would be wrong, GTFO!

Impeach Dittsy! Impeach!

Moved to Denied Forum

Accepted!

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Moved to Accepted Forum

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Liri broke the teamspeak! Flame her!

To hit back on the Item Decay proposed by the OP. You are not curbing inflation with that. Only if people allow their goods to deteriorate and get destroyed THEN buying goods to replace it does it curb inflation. Even so it is pretty convoluted. Within days the purchasing habits of players will change. Instead of stockpiling food they will just purchase enough for a week or two. I love it because its realistic. But I hate it because it is not accomplishing the goal of helping to control inflation.

With limiting shops, by getting rid of the server-side text based ones and making a move to Signshop/Display shop. You can simply limit the allowed shops to be created via permission nodes already in place. 1 Sign/Chest = one Item (at least for ChestShop). So Iron VIP gets 3-4 chests (One Shop), Gold 6-8 (two shops), Diamond 12-16 (Four shops) and keep it up for the higher echelons of donators.

I dont prefer punishment and rules to try to control the economy. Admins and GMs don't want to waste their time policing shops over people abusing the system. Ideally you want a system that can run itself. The whole reason I am back at LOTC is because I was sick of pulling my hair out admining my own RP server. At least LOTC has a dedicated team and just one 1 person. The one thing I can say is that the economy ran by itself. It took work to set it up and just idea-planting to my player, but it worked.

Regards

The deterioration of items was not mean't to control inflation... I'm not sure where you got that idea from....

Once again, if anyone would like to discuss their ideas or their concerns in person, just hop on teamspeak and poke me.

To those of you who have made posts with concerns, if you have teamspeak I'd love to invite you to come and chat. Responding to all these is becoming tedious and time consuming. With many issues being repeated. So if you want to hope on now feel free!

Name of the Person who Proposed the Change: Whitebeard

Change: Taxes on trading via plugin

My concerns or ideas about the Change: I dislike this idea heavily because while taxes are good for a nation, why should it be enforced by a plugin. It should be up to a nation leader and the guards to collect taxes, not a plugin that siphons the money away immediately. Everything else I am fine with and some I really love but this one is a big no for me.

Roleplay limits with activity etc are too big of an issue here. Doing it manually could also encourage people to leave towns which is not what we want. And to this day I have never ever seen a manual tax system work on a large scale.

If you have any further questions or concerns please shoot me a PM.

Falkor:

"So, you're going to powergame against the playerbase? I don't think powergaming is needed ever. The town leaders should get up and go collect taxes, not have a plugin randomly place minas in a chest for them.

There's a rule against powergaming, but you're doing it anyway."

There are many plugin aspects to this server which could be considered power-gaming, such as respawning at the cloud temple after being killed. Again this 'power-gaming' is not for personal gain which is the purpose of regular 'power-gaming' this is for the betterment of the server.

If you have any further questions please shoot me a PM

My concerns or ideas about the Change:

Mobs are currently over-powered and not justified RPly in any aspect, or very little. Removing the Minas drops is like removing all necessity for mobs in the first place. An example of a useless and RP breaking mob is the green slime which already represents this problem. Furthermore, why couldn't a relatively trained swordsman go hunt a zombie to get some coins to catch a carriage to Ildon from Arethor? Keeping the rare items to sell doesn't make any sort of compromise. You need other players close by to SELL those items. When on GMT or AUS time-zones, the probability of players being found is low to null. This is going to penalize people on those time zones and could also break the economy for those players.

However, I offer a comprimise: Remove the Mina drops, remove the mobs or nerf the mobs immensely.

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My concerns or ideas about the Change:

I see you are talking about mines there, and thats fine, but if you are planning to extend this sort of restriction to other resources such as wheat and lumber, its a big no-no. Lumber for construction is already tedious to get so I don't see how its so 'abundant' being it that a large part of player base has a fairly limited access to the land.

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My concerns or ideas about the Change:

I call complete Meta-gaming here. There is absolutely nothing around to tax you automatically when buying things. Lets say you are in the wilderness, is a zombie going to walk up and say "There is a 5% tax in 'dis land, money, now."? No. Even in towns, it should be up to the leader of the town/city to dictate taxes and there is no way they can tax transactions. They are able to tax on the total revenue but not on a simple transaction like buying an apple. Seriously... this would only benefit town leaders and make everyone want to be one, creating large problems.

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My concerns or ideas about the Change:

The food part is interesting, yes, like M&B. However it should only apply to meats and fruits which require being fresh at all times. Bread is still eatable after a long time anyway and Full Watermelons can be kept for a long time. It shouldn't affect resources such as wheat though, wheat is for long-time storage.

However the weapons and armor have no reason to degrade. If you leave a sword in a sheath for many years, nothing is going to happen to it. For it to slowly break is unrealistic at the least. Armor really would only degrade, slowly that is, when being worn, stored armor has nothing to degrade it. Unless you are a weird person who stores their metals in water.

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My concerns or ideas about the Change:

If these were exclusive as in, the certain race had more of it, then its fine. However, if it means only that race can have a certain resource, that is just random, unless its ores and metals. You can really plant any tree for example in a certain area and grow it to get that resource. Same goes for food/farm products. This would furthermore remove conflicts which cause war-claims to a certain extent, it'd all have to be resolved diplomatically and orcs don't have such capacity.

This would be good if the exclusive resources were like the supply was larger, but other could still get it.

Anyway, this already exists with trade items. You can only get really good cannons from dwarves for example.

Mob-drops: I agree that they need to be nerfed if this change is added. Your concern for players in secluded timezones is something that needs to be taken into account, however I'd like to know how removing minas drops, removing mobs or nerfing them immensely will solve this problem for them?

Mining Permits: I must disagree with you here, I feel as though having lumber yards would actually help players get MORE wood. It would give players a clear location at which they can access and obtain lumber.

Taxes: Yes there is a certain element of 'Meta-gaming' even 'power-gaming' if you will, but I feel a step like this needs to be made for the betterment of the server. I do not think it will cause anyones roleplay to be harmed like the usual cases of meta-gaming do. Allowing players to dictate taxes is something I had considered and I still consider it a viable option if handled correctly. However I feel as though town leaders might add a tax that is a rediculous amount which members of that town may make the mistake of making an exchange unaware of the tax rate which may cost them dearly.

Degrading Materials: Sure maybe there are certain elements that are 'unrealistic' but if we want to talk about realism, how is it we can craft a diamond sword with 2 tiny diamonds? Realism isn't something LoTC nor Minecraft is going for. The staff of LoTC are looking to help make shop roleplay a more exciting thing to do which encourages more roleplay.

Exclusive Resources: These things would differ, certain things might be 100% exclusive to that race, other things they might just have a greater abundance of. And I'm talking about physical resources not roleplay type items such as cannons.

If you have any further questions or complaints about this issue please send me a personal message.

Name of the Person who Proposed the Change:

Whitebeard

Change:

Weapons degrade

My concerns or ideas about the Change:

For some blacksmiths at the camp i work for keep their armour for when new people arrive and/or workers come. Thing is we don't get a lot of traffic because our boat is hard to find at the docks.

The actual rate at which the items degrade would be relatively slow.

Myself and Heibe's compromise.

Change: Allowing in a Shop Plugin

Reasons Behind the Plugin: Allowing a shop plugin to be added to the server with a catch. There would be an added tax of say an extra 5-10%. RP wise this could be explained by the need to pay your shop keeper while you are away. Essentially this added charge would cause those with shop plugins to raise their prices which in turn will encourage players to visit shops where personal selling is involved in order to buy items for a lower cost.

Please take the time to read the ENTIRE thread before posting.

As you may have all read I made a thread regarding removing mob drops, I'd encourage those reading this thread to go and check it out. Throughout this thread there was a relatively even amount of positive and negative feedback I have taken this into consideration and will be addressed in the below points.

To begin I'd first like to address what the current state of our economy is and why it is this way. For the purpose of this thread I'm going to compare it with the early Aegis' economy.

Back in the days of the first few weeks (even months) of Aegis the economy was an abundant pool of trade. Commerce was something to be taken seriously and was an actual enjoyable experience, although a lot of people still enjoy running a shop or a business, I believe Lord of the Crafts potential is still not be reached. Many may argue that running and controlling a 'Minecraft' economy is impossible, they may say that resources are much too plentiful and money just keeps coming into the server causing large amounts inflation and the devaluation of Minas to occur. This is something that has continued to effect our economy and make things worse. Those who are heavily involved in trade and were here during the original times in Aegis will be able to easily make the comparison and notice the many differences between them.

So what is it the staff want to do to correct the issue of the infinite abundance materials and Minas in 3.0?

I'm aware that no matter what I suggest or the manner in which I suggest it people are going to disagree with almost everything I have to say here. If we look at the state of the current economy objectively and realize what is happening and why it is happening we can come to a solution. I have spoken with as many staff members I could to collaborate ideas. This included speaking with people on Teamspeak and posting on the forums and relaying ideas.

So what are our ideas (Note these are only ideas and not actual changes)?

[Change]

Removing Mina drops from Mobs.

[Reason for the Change]

One I have talked about in great detail is mob drops. A lot of people disliked the idea of removing any mob drops, but I'm going to go ahead and make a compromise. I'm going to suggest that no Mina will drop from mobs.... however the chance for rarer items will still remain. This will prevent ANY money from entering the economy that we cannot control.

But Whitebeard now I can't make a living by running around killing mobs 24/7, now I have to go and roleplay selling my goods to merchants!

Edit: This would work provided that mobs were nerfed significantly.

[Change]

Adding resource permits

[Reason for the Change]

Resources within Minecraft are everywhere, they exist wherever you walk and wherever you look. To control the abundance of resources we could add in regioned mines. These mines would be ~15x15 (Maybe bigger). Once you have mined all of the ore from the mine, you will lose access and will need to buy another mine. The deeper the mine is, the more expensive it will be. Used mines will eventually be refreshed for players to access once again. Questions and concerns will be asked on this I know, but considering the benefits I believe this is a MUST.

But Whitebeard now I won't be able to have an infinite amount of resources which allow me to single handedly destroy the economy and the value of ores, now I may have to actually help the economy and make investments!

[Change]

Taxes (A certainty of life)

[Reason for the Change]

A tax minimum of 5% could be added to all monetary transactions, but where does this money go? Depending on where the player is currently located your 5% would either be transferred to the town owner or removed from the economy completely if the player is not within a city. This change would allow town leaders to make money and to encourage trade within his or her city. Obviously a plugin would be needed to do this and it will be difficult with the current emerald system. Exceptions to this tax may apply (But I'm not telling!)

But Whitebeard I hate taxes, I want to keep my money so I can become a millionaire without actually helping anyone but myself!

[Change]

Making weapons/armour and food degrade over time.

[Reason for the Change]

Now before I say why, I know you are ALL going to hate this and I can understand your worriedness! But if we perhaps take a look at this objectively. This would keep people like Miners, Bakers, chefs, armour smiths, sword smiths, hunters and just about every job I can think of at work. Because there would be a constant demand for more food, more weapons, repairs etc. Note that the items would never fully destroy themselves they would just degrade to around 10% durability. Note that this would happen over a long period of time at least 2-4 weeks.

But Whitebeard, now I can't horde 100 stacks of bread and weapons and then sell them for super cheap and become a millionaire!

Edit: This change would work provided that hunger healed you when full.

[Change]

Adding in different racial currencies

[Reason for the Change]

Although Economically this might not make a massive difference I think it would be majorly interesting for nations to try and control their own currency. That is all.

But Whitebeard now I can't cripple all the nations economy by myself!

EDIT: Those who visit other races mines could incur some sort of added cost or something of that nature.

[Change]

Giving races their own exclusive resources

[Reason for the Change]

This change encourages international trading, forcing nations to exchange goods in order to keep their own nation prosperous. This would also create some interesting ambassador relations type roleplay. Be aware that certain races would also have an abundance of certain resources while other races might have less of a certain resource or mob.

But Whitebeard now I can't make my nation awesome without talking and being friends with other nations!

Note: I have a load more ideas, but some will depend on some changes in the future. Also note that all these changes are directed at 3.0 and not the current time. Many of these ideas were not created by me and do not claim to have thought them up, please don't sue me.

Now, I now you are all keen to attack me and tear my ideas to pieces, so I'll let you have your turn! But while doing so please follow this format with ALL your posts!

Those of you who want to suggest more ideas which could be added to this fancy shancy list, use this!

[b]Change:[/b]


[b]Reason behind the Change:[/b]

[b]Name of the Person who Proposed the Change:[/b]


[b]Change:[/b]


[b]Why I love this change:[/b]

[b]Name of the Person who Proposed the Change:[/b]


[b]Change:[/b]


[b]My concerns or ideas about the Change:[/b]

I've been accepted right when it started being down, so I can't wait haha

Welcome to the server :/

Quite unfortunate that your first days in the 'Accepted to LoTC Club' have been spent browsing the forums and anxiously awaiting the chance to log in :S