Aedan The Bard

 

yes because not having your lotc twitter feed somehow ruins your experience here and makes you resent the actual server.

Because logic!

 

Mainly because the community feels dead without them.

Lago is that threat enforceable? 

 

For everyone's reference, Voidsoldier is barely online. Last he was on was 12 days ago. Talking to him is near impossible, plus that screenshot is admission that would hold some kind of previous grudge on me from like what, 6 months ago? idk.

 

Why this had to be broadcasted here, I can't fathom. 

I have him in my skype friend's list. He's pretty active, if that helps with anything.

Proud to be the first blonde pure-blood elf with red eyes in lotc who isn't edgy nor insane. Red eyes add character and conquer the ladies. Get on my level.

(I actually gave him red eyes because blue eyes were too mainstream and I wanted him to look more awake, more in touch with life, which the red eyes helped with. I also may or may not have picked a pinkish brown when making his eyes, and people took it as red so I ended up making it red)

Good. That means you'll get in game.

Actually, now more than ever, I feel an urge to /not/ get on the server.

I think he was saying that as a joke.

He was o-o

He was joke-raging in skype earlier :p

Katherine has taken the words right out of my mouth. Well said!

As long as important Adunian words like "Feck" "Shite" "Shoite" "Wanker" and similar variations are not censored, everything will be just fine.

Welcome to City 17!

The benefit of making a thread about it? Someone else can search for it. You can't search statuses.

You can if you click "view all statuses"

Second two are replies to Cyndikate.

 

 

By modern human I mean IRL human. The LotC humans have a zealous medieval European-esque culture that fits them just fine. By "bland modern human" I refer to what Malinor had: no culture at all.

The clarification is much appreciated!

Follow this logic and nothing should happen, everyone should be the same bland, boring, modern humans nonculture because that's what we were at the start.

 

So they should completely remake their culture because you don't like them?

 

Nobody is forcing you to go to Haelun'or.

Not quite. Where am I saying I dislike them? I am aware no one forces me to go anywhere. It was not an argument nor a complaint. The High Elves were talked about to try and find a way to fix things around, based on the survey results. Did you read all the previous posts in order?

Either way. Things do happen even if we follow that... "logic", as you called it (though it wasn't meant to be a form of logic, but an explanation). The result of role-play makes things change all the time. I was referring to changes caused or forced by ooc.

Not aiming to be rude nor anything of the sort, but... Your second comment right there (that for some reason doesn't show unless I quote it) contradicts your initial stance? You speak of unchanging humans in a way that suggests you dislike them that way, promoting the change of things to make them more interesting (or because you don't like them), and then contradict it. I'm not sure I got it right.

Everything in the spoiler has to do with the high elves. I don't believe this discussion is appropriate for this thread, but I just wanted to say a lot of things.

 

 

Okay, I'm not going to do the whole paragraph-by-paragraph rebuttal because I find those terribly obnoxious. Before we begin, I need to express how long ago Aegis was--more than two years ago, now. I feel anything that happened then is long, long since become irrelevant. But that's just my opinion, please don't pick on that one! :(

Okay. I argue that the High Elves transition from the Aegisian 'culture' (of which I know little) to current Athera Haelun'or culture was, more-or-less, natural.

 

Something that people forget is that the high elves were the first ever 'bigoted' group to appear on the server. IC, the culture was re-discovered in Asulon, inside the ruins of a grand library. The philosophy of maehr'sae hiylun'ehya was liked, and a number of high elves chose to live in the fashion that these ancient and extinct high elves did. They took the arrogant mindset that they were better than the other races, and always took their time to talk about it. They would lecture visitors who came to their city how fabulous they were and how clever they were, and how great it was to be a high elf. They barred orcs from the city, though, due to significant cultural differences and violence. All very arrogant and so-forth. Marvellous fun.

Now, OOC, the lore was crafted near the end of Aegis (If I get any details wrong, I'm sorry. I've only learned this second-hand for the most part). Work on High Elf culture was started by VonEbs and later on Sporadic, Relinquo_Angelus, Esterlen, and Ranovak joined in. The latter-four wanted something different than the usual Elven shtick, so they took on elements of elves from other sources. So followed a scrambling of bits and bobs and squashing things together. Not every high elf liked the end result, but quite a few did. The guys who wrote it stressed in various threads to all high elves that they were not obliged to act the way Haelun'or did. We were not out to change everything OOC, just that those who wanted to join in, could. So it was thrown at Native, he liked it, and 'lo and behold the library was set up in Asulon. Early days of high-elf land was mainly made up of trying to choose an architecture style they liked. They went from wooden houses to horrendously ugly 6-story towers, and walls were non-existent. They declared their independence from Malinor at this time. Outsiders came into the city freely, and took part in high-elven shenanigans--whether it be snooting around, robbing their houses, drinking with them, attacking them, or just hanging out in general. Though, many individuals took snootiness poorly back in those days and had a tendency to attack. Walls were erected to keep out the less reputable individuals. But then some raids occurred. I forget from whom (probably orcs protesting the racism) but that prompted the high elves to keep their gates shut. Which still goes on today.

 

Then came the orc warclaim, which is when stuff started to get more familiar. Now, the high elves had disagreements with the Mori and their subservient dark elves for a fair while. And there had been a number of skirmishes in and around the city and forests. Considerable trust was lost with them. These Mori and dark elves helped the orcs attack the city, and, to very little surprise from anyone (save perhaps the high elves themselves) it was sacked. The Malinorian High Prince (Haelphon I think it was), who was suspected to have allowed the orcs through his lands to attack, came to Haelun'or a day after the battle and informed a weeping and injured Ellir'siol (The de-facto demagogue) that her people had brought the attack upon themselves. This left a rather poor taste in certain witnesses mouths. For instance, a young and impressionable Lucion Sullas, who had quite a bit of influence over the city for quite a bit of time. Later came the influx of human raids off the the tail of a young and fresh Holy Oren Empire, and the infamous dark elf Rei. So, lets take note of folks they didn't trust/loathed at this point.

Malinor--Who (allegedly) allowed orcs through their lands to attack them,

Dark elves/Mori--For the attacks and aiding their enemies,

Humans--For their ever-expanding empire and raiders,

Orcs--because they were orcs.

 

Its been mentioned that several aspects of the High Elven world, such as the purging and killing of folks that do not agree with them was just an OOC choice. Really, the purging part of this was a very recent addition. There were always nasty High Elves from the beginning. Asulon High Elves like Nelecar championed brainwashing and execution of impure high elves. But this fellow was crazy IC, and very few people gave in to all his ideals. Furthermore, there were characters on the original silver council (Dio Astore, Ellir'siol, Artaeum, and Lucion Sullas) that could keep him in check. But then came other, unchallenged monsters, like Kalenz Uradir (who we will get to in more detail later). IC (and I'm not sure if I should tell you this meta-ish stuff) his mind was corrupted by the Lich Cataris, and ol' Kalenz has slowly been going more and more loco since then. When Dio, Ellir, and Nelecar all went innactive/exiled-suicided, the city was left to the influence of Lucion Sullas (AKA, my character). He was a stern and ardent neutral-pacifist when it came to foreign politics, and never condoned killing of any kind. Even if it was an orc-elf hybrid or something similarly horrible by high-elven standards was more likely to leave quite thoroughly alive. Near the end of Asulon, we joined up with Malinor again out of IC necessity, and spent Elysium and Kalos(?) hanging with them--which was good and bad. I'm not going to go into the OOC, as there was quite a bit of anti-us in those days, but the High Elves themselves actually managed to get one of their Princes into the High Prince station after a semi-coup of Bravepaw by the council. Lucion didn't like that, so he left the Malinor Council. The High elves themselves also found themselves in the midst of a number of impures, religious figures, and other foul things they took unkindly to. They were displeased at the state of things. Come Anthos, they made their way to the new Haelun'or, and were all quite happy to have some space. After the ensuing conflicts Malinor got itself in, the high elves seceded. IC, Lucion didn't wish to make demands for land in the independence declaration, because he felt it was more polite to discuss it in person. Only one meeting upon the subject occurred between himself and Princess Titania, and it was not revisited until a plucky high elf in the service of the Princedom demanded an audience. They denied the request despite the high elves arguing they needed the land directly outside their walls for farming.  Around this time, Oren annexed Malinor's land, and it became a vassal under the Kingdom of Kaedrin, and they gave the high elves the land they needed. OOC I had to go inactive for a while, so Lucion handed leadership over to the young up-and-coming political beast Kalenz Uradir--A mischievous fellow with ties to the Polgrath-lead Arcane Delvers, and the infamous White Rose. Anthos shenanigans included; fighting against druids over cutting down elder trees that were allowing raiders into the city, arguing and getting into trouble with dwarves over one anvil or another, hunting 'The Fallen,' a group lead by an infamous impure, attempting (and failing) to fend off raiders of many nationalities... guh... I am so sick of writing at this point. I'll just sum it up with another list. They now disliked/distrusted

 

Dwarves-- Because anvil business (I know there was significant OOC conflict, but I won't go into that due to the freshness of the bile)

Malinor-- Due to poor relations and bad memories.

Conclave-- because it basically was Malinor in the eyes of the High Elves,

Snow Elves--Because they attacked a party being attended by High Elves,

Orcs--Because they're orcs. 

 

Now add that to Asulon's.

 

Malinor--Who (allegedly) allowed orcs through their lands to attack them,

Dark elves/Mori--For the attacks and aiding their enemies,

Humans--For their ever-expanding empire and raiders,

Orcs--because they were orcs.

 

Now, those they did like:

 

Kha-- Due to close relations that I forgot to write in, and cannot be buggered (Sorry, Tiazar. :( ))

White Rose/assorted humans-- Official alliances and friendly relations.

 

Then came the Fringe, and I think that's recent enough for me not to worry about.

 

The current High Elven attitude towards the other races is due to IC interactions, and not due to OOC. Now that I have pretty much written out our entire history, I am going to have a cup of tea. However, one last thing to consider.

 

The high elves took in the dark elves and the wood elves (as well as the snow elves for a time. Sorry about that, Narthok. ;-; ) and tried to build something with them. Now there have been significant tensions, and certainly quite a number of angry feelings, but one of many results is this: High elves are softening slowly on other races. Dark Elves, Wood Elves and Humans are regarded quite nicely by the citizens, and there has even been an Orc or two wandering around that haven't been killed on sight. The main square of the city is almost always open to anyone who doesn't cause trouble. Is there another natural change upon the horizon? Perhaps! Who knows? I'm going to drink tea now.

Tl;dr: Things happened that are covered in the previous paragraphs.

A large part of that "Ancient" lore for the High Elves was created due to some... sketchy situation involving the Mori and, well... I rather not talk about it to avoid stirring a grave. In essence, it was made that way on purpose, due to ooc situations that took place in late Aegis involving two specific individuals. I thought it was an important detail to mention.

Anyway,

Let's talk about how we can boost up the other races and settlements, aye?

>Post results of community survey.

>Becomes thread about high elves within first page.

>High elves always compared to Nazi.

>High Elves are now instruments of Godwins Law.

 

BEWARE! Opinions below!

Anyway.. can we not do this again? High elves are high elves. I don't see the complaint honestly. I was able to get integrated among them within the span of two days, i find the roleplay easy and rather enjoyable. Those that complain.. just find another area and group. Its seriously not that hard. There's at least 50+ people on every time I care enough to log in. Often there are 100+ The lowest I have seen is 24 people exactly.

 

Please, stop trying to change high elven culture. The quirks it has makes it unique to itself, and I'd rather play a culture and race with likes and dislikes rather than 'everybody needs to love each other and get along'. This isn't an episode of Barney, people.

They're being used as an example to discuss a matter regarding the results of the survey. I am yet to see anyone calling them nazis. If anything, personally speaking, I'm trying to figure out why they're considered an issue and providing advice to tweak them according, again, to the survey results and the implications. We are not trying to change the new High Elf culture, either. There's nothing to worry about. This is not another complaint thread about a subrace, let alone a flame war. It's all chill and constructive, yes?

If you'd like us to stop talking about the High Elves, I guess we can use a different example?

Also: no groups can be attacked nor targeted for aggression, as, on the forums, we're all one single community. What we role-play and all of that stuff is not all that relevant in this thread.

Let's all work together on analyzing the results, the implications, and the meaning behind them to help the staff out for once, eh? Let's do our job as the playerbase.

Of course, this post, if even read at all, will simply be responded to with "Deal with it in RP"

The issue with this argument is that, if people aren't solving or dealing with it in RP, it's probably because they can't - and they can't because it's not an issue originated in RP, but in OOC. Therefore, the argument is rendered invalid, and a solution is yet to be found. Sadly, OOC has to be dealt with OOCly, and IC ICly, or else things start to fall apart (as they've been threatening with, as of late).

OOC functions as an anchor, so nothing can be done about it ICly, while trying to solve the free IC side can't be done by imposing an anchor. It's like the left and right sides of a human's brain, respectively: If you try to solve something that requires your left side with your right side, it won't work. Same goes vice-versa. If you try to solve it with both, hehehe... good luck!

This means that, if you try to solve something that originated in OOC through RP, you'll face a wall, and the problem just won't leave (take many situations as an example: factions that refuse to disband, groups of RPers who refuse, or refused, to move on; take the snow elves and the Adunains, from Anthos, as an example). If you try to solve an RP situation through OOC, you pretty much ruin everything, to put it bluntly.

Well, now that you share those details, I do agree there's been a lot of ooc plotting going on to change the high elves, but... Honestly? It's partially congruent:

To the eyes of elves, in character, who've been around since Aegis, the change the high elves undertook makes no sense. There were no racist elves (or at least not more than five or so) to make a whole nation out of them. In essence, it should not have happened, if we follow the storyline. Since, as you've mentioned, it was partially ooc, it's understandable it changed that abruptly (it happens all the time, so I guess it's normal).

Now, moving on from that, you've got that a lot of characters are going to dislike the change, and thus a lot of players are going to dislike it too, mostly those who know what the elves once were and what they should've been (or what they should be). I have to admit I, myself, have complained about how I feel they changed the lore and turned the high elves into something they weren't meant to be in the original lore, but that's just my personal opinion (don't mind it too much right now).

Overall, players, as I said, get upset (sometimes) over the experience they get from RP. If it was a bad experience, they feel bad, as they have to feel for their characters to make them seem realistic. Therefore, they tend to be actually upset, or mad, when they face characters or situations that hinder their RP, and it's no surprise that they think the players who RP the high elves have an evil plan to kill their RP and make them feel bad.

Mali'Aheral character players put up with a lot of OOC bs, to be honest. I wouldn't be willing to "cooperate" with the demands people make OOCly, either. But, well... Since the change was done through OOC or based off of OOC reasons, you've got to keep that in mind when people complain about it. If it originated from OOC reasons, people are not all that likely to try to solve it ICly (and it probably can only be solved or dealt with oocly, as far as some people's understanding goes). Perhaps these words of advice can help you guys out.

The main reason the high elves are racist IC is to combat "edgy" or unorganize RP that otherwise plagued elven RP. At least that is my take on it. The problem that I see is everyone wants their own mansion. No one wants to be a peasant. Which leads to many players choosing an independent nation or faction where the promise of land is a real thing.

Also if people want this map to not be ugly then everyone needs to work together to stop requesting or taking pre-built ruins or event locations. I don't know why but since the start of the map I have had more requests to build over pre-built ruins than anywhere else.

 

Hmmm... Perhaps you should try doing it differently. The High Elves have become more edgies than the old edgies, imo, not to mention their RP seems to kill other possible RP. It seems it's RP that is done based off of OOC reasons, so it's natural it won't feel right to other people, I suppose.

Regarding nations... Well, to be honest, I remember the nation leaders were less into politics and war, and more into developing their city, building housing for new people and listening to their needs. This came to an end with the ability to free-build in Asulon and the other maps, including this one (despite the plugins). People love ruins, they're cozy and a fantastic place to live in (I used to build ruins to live in myself).

Another detail is that nation leaders are practically unreachable, with the exception of Syrio, who pretty much follows the same Nation Leader behavior or etiquette people followed in Aegis-times

It's ok to want to be racist (as elves) to make RP and all that, but keep in mind that kind of thing hinders more than it helps. OOCly, people are mostly chill. ICly, most people dislike it. Same goes for what the humans do ICly, and what every other major nation is doing. They forget they have to keep in mind it has to be enjoyable FOR EVERYONE.

My character, for example, is disgusted by the new generations of elves to the point he just avoids any elven settlement altogether. He's been like this since Asulon, and it has only gotten worse. This kind of thing leads characters to go elsewhere, or find places that are more peaceful and enjoyable, which often got raided before the war rules got updated. See where I'm going with this?


Sure, it's the way some characters are supposed to be, I get it. I have over a decade of experience role-playing, mind you. However, players do get upset by what they see ICly. A new player, eager to RP and make friends, faces the bigot, stern and rude high elves. What do you expect? You want them to like the RP and be interested in hanging around? They won't unless they're looking for that kind of RP, which is rare, or if they have friends amongst them.
 

Anyway. Translate those results as to what needs to be done:
 

• Fix the damn nations. People are bored of them, to the point they're making their own and spreading RP all over the place.
• The races that get the least players need a boost. Make events focused around them. Make them interesting. Promote their RP.
• The map got burnt since day 1. People ran all over, found everything that could be found, and then proceeded to treat it like just another temp map. It's what happens when you change maps 7+ bloody times. People stop caring.

Without the status updates, the forums feel dead, uninteresting, stale and overall seems like a waste of time. I can't explain why, it's just how it is.

Don't limit statuses. Everything else is fine, but statuses are a necessity for a huge portion of the playerbase. It's how we communicate without making junk posts and all sorts of threads. Remove that limitation. Don't even bother testing it.

If you want the team members to do their announcements (which I find pointless and, honestly, uninteresting), make a second status update log, right under the normal one, so you may have both, instead of restricting it. I don't read statuses for important info. I read them to be in touch with other members of the community and, sometimes, to see what others are up to that might interest me.

Finally an update so good there's not been a single angry status update about it!

-snip-

failed to see the joke

*facepalm*

Also, to those who are asking for people to stop making one line posts: That's basically the consequence for removing status updates. That's what people will start doing now, because they can't do it any other way.

Though if we had status updates readded...

Why are you guys crying over not even able to post one sentence on the front page?

I don't see the crying.

Don't limit statuses. Everything else is fine, but statuses are a necessity for a huge portion of the playerbase. It's how we communicate without making junk posts and all sorts of threads. Remove that limitation. Don't even bother testing it.

If you want the team members to do their announcements (which I find pointless and, honestly, uninteresting), make a second status update log, right under the normal one, so you may have both, instead of restricting it. I don't read statuses for important info. I read them to be in touch with other members of the community and, sometimes, to see what others are up to that might interest me.

Usually, the staff tends to be boring when it comes to statuses, and I can already tell there's going to be quite a few of them promoting voting on minestatus or redundant things of the sort; things most (if not many) of us don't really care about. We read announcement posts and news for that kind of stuff, aye?

 

To this, I am adding that statuses save the forums from getting piles and piles of support/feedback threads, as well as many other things we, the community, help each other with through status replies. How will noobs or inexperienced players find help quickly over doubts they get all the time?

Don't limit statuses. Everything else is fine, but statuses are a necessity for a huge portion of the playerbase. It's how we communicate without making junk posts and all sorts of threads. Remove that limitation. Don't even bother testing it.

If you want the team members to do their announcements (which I find pointless and, honestly, uninteresting), make a second status update log, right under the normal one, so you may have both, instead of restricting it. I don't read statuses for important info. I read them to be in touch with other members of the community and, sometimes, to see what others are up to that might interest me.
Usually, the staff tends to be boring when it comes to statuses, and I can already tell there's going to be quite a few of them promoting voting on minestatus or redundant things of the sort; things most (if not many) of us don't really care about. We read announcement posts and news for that kind of stuff, aye?

 

Farewell, High Prince. May our ancestors guide your way, old friend.

Roads go ever, ever on...