Mithradites

"Get rid of Yuln, too!" Lucion yelled from a far off mountain top.

The reason LotC magic is jumbled is because it hasn't got a tangible theme that surrounds it. In all fantasy worlds magic compliments the societies and cultures that are present in the world. They make sense in the reality that's presented. The MAT in Asulon tried to pull together every bizarre magic type used in Aegis and have them fit in the world's lore, but many of them did not fit properly. Influences for magic came from vastly different sources like Warcraft for the shamans and druids (don't hate me 'cause I'm right, fwiends) while D&D was a source for the original clerical types (I think) to name a few examples. You also have a variety of sources for the varying powers--spirits, gods, space, gemstones infused with concentrated, soul-corrupting evil (shades are dumb), and even "lifeforce" or blood. It's too messy. It needs to go.

 

For an example, in the game "The Witcher" you have lots of beings who use magic, from sorceresses to monsters. They do plenty of different and similar things to one another, but you assume (since there's not much information on the specifics) that all the magic must come from the same place, probably. More accurately, you don't really think about it at all, because it's magic. The mystery of it made it seem like this huge, unfathomable force rather than the deus ex machina that is was. What we need is a simplified concept like that. LotC magic's biggest weakness is that it needs a lot of lore explained so people can actually RP teaching it and learning it. There's a lot of dreadful quibbles to remember, and it's frustrating/embarrassing to get told off by someone for forgetting a detail or two.

 

A while back I wanted to reform arcane magic to make it less sprawling and give specific, stone-set limits to what they were capable of. I say go for broke and kill the whole magic system. Decide on a theme and remake it from the ground up. Make one source for all magic and present a limited (but comprehensive) number of "schools" (Not archetypes! No different power sources!) that all give a buttload of interesting things to do. Make sure there's plenty of overlap in abilities, so no one school has a monopoly on fireballs or other such things. Set some very clear rules on what can and cannot be done. Once you have the limitations down-pat, let the players do the actual RP of it in whatever mystical way they wish, so long as it doesn't violate any of the standards and isn't too silly. Design all direct combat magic around the plugin. Poof. Non-intrusive magic plugin.

 

Then never add anything to it ever again.

 

Tl;dr Kill magic, start again. It's better to read it all, though.

A short query is scribbled on the bottom of a note.

 

"Are stories in the form of poems acceptable?"

https://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/123175-reorganizing-arcane-magic/#entry1185186

Psstthisstwhisperwhisper!

A large notice is pasted on multiple walls in the city of Haelun'or. The words are written in an overly-neat, golden script, with the symbol of the Sullas bloodline heading it. Being the overly curious fellow that you are, you read onward.
 

 

The Maehr’sae Consortium

 

To all those within the Silver Walls, the Consortium Returns

 

Mr L. Sullas laments the passing of his beloved organisation, which was unable to reach the fullness of its potential. Therefore the recreation and revision of the Consortium is hereby announced to the citizenry of the city (and those outside of it who are respectable enough for its ranks). As such, it shall be henceforth known as the Maehr'sae Consortium.

 

Previously, the purpose of the Consortium was to merely be a forum for learned individuals to find similarly-minded comrades in order to further their projects and aims. Now that our city has survived the ravages of war, education and other scholarly activities must take precedence over the sword. Education is paramount to furthering the maehr'sae hiylun'ehya. Thus, this Consortium is for those with an aptitude for scientific and scholarly pursuits to endeavor in learning from one-another. It is, therefore, a highly selective educational institution.

 

However, this is not a place for lazy magii, poets, or any other sort of do-nothing. This Consortium is for serious scholars, as science is a serious matter. To elaborate, if you identify with the following, you need not apply:

 

-You are unable to write tomes upon experiments you have performed.

 

-You feel that magic is worthy of respect in scientific circles.

 

-You are disinclined to explore caves, unruly forests, and ancient ruins for the purposes of study and discovery.

 

-You believe that experimenting on non-consenting sentient beings is morally justifiable.

 

-You feel that the Eternal Library requires further volumes on poetry.

 

If your mindset is unrelated to those stated, then you may apply. However, this Consortium has a number rules by which all members must adhere to. The list is short but succinct, and one hopes there will be no confusion in the matter of following them.

 

1. No idle minds.

If you have no project, nor showing any advancement in a project, then your purpose here is naught, and you will face expulsion.

 

2. No unwilling participants.

We will not debase ourselves to kidnapping individuals for experimentation. Exceptions to this rule can be made, but only in extraordinary circumstances.

 

3. No theft of research.

Taking/using a member's work without their permission will be met with scorn, and immediate expulsion.

 

4. No tarnishing of the Consortiums reputation.

Good behaviour, regardless of where you may be, is expected on those within this organisation. If you feel liable to law-breaking (any law of any nation) for your research, expect immediate expulsion.

 

5. No sharing of Consortium information designated as "sensitive" without the explicit permission of the Maehr Circle.

Some knowledge is best not shared with those who would use it for ill-purposes.

 

Individuals ascending through the hierarchy (excluding those of lay-members) will receive official papers acknowledging their level of input and success within the Consortium. Each of these will be signed by the members of the Maehr Circle to ensure their authenticity, and the quality of the individual's knowledge. Some of these may include

 

-Certificate of Graduation

 

-Certificate of Advanced Disciplines within the Field of [subject]

 

-Diploma of Theoretical Logic

 

-Diploma of Abstract Sciences

 

-Diploma of Higher Sciences

 

-Diploma of Advanced Disciplines within the Field of [subject]

 

-The Professorship

 

The Maehr'sae Consortium has numerous levels of involvement within the Institutions workings, all of which are reduced to simple titles for quick reference. These will be listed from the lowest possible position, to the highest.

 

Lay-Member

(Requirements: An interest in scholarly activities)

Any individual who shows interest in joining the Consortium must at first be a 'lay-member.' These are usually those still creating their entry-level works, or simply attempting to impress others of the Consortium. They have no access to special lectures or information, nor any right to declare themselves affiliated with this Consortium. They will be expected, however, to perform tasks demanded of them (unless they desire not to join).

 

Scholar

(Requirements: One tome upon a scientific subject written by the individual)

Once a lay-member has had his tome accepted, and found him/herself a  high scholar to be apprenticed to, they may consider themselves a part of this Consortium. They will learn from their new master until they, at their discretion, choose to allow their advancement.

 

High Scholar

(Requirements: One tome upon a scientific subject, a Certificate of Graduation)

This individual has been educated by those of venerable skill, and are now open to higher learning. They will learn from the professors of the Consortium and advance their education through individual study and performing/attending lectures. It is expected of any High Scholar of the Consortium to take on apprentices, just as they were themselves.

 

Professor

(Requirements: One tome upon a scientific subject, a Diploma of Advanced Disciplines, a minimum of three graduated apprentices)

When a member has distinguished themselves within the Consortium, offers of professorship may be forth-coming. These are talented individuals, with exceptional knowledge in the sciences, and brilliant enough to be respected in all fields they ply.

 

Members of the Maehr Circle

In the Consortium, there are individuals selected (initially at the whim of L. Sullas) to be a part of the administrative core of the institution. They are responsible for judging the advancement of members through its ranks, and keeping hold of sensitive experiments and information. They are the ultimate authority on all things within the Maehr'sae Consortium.

 

If one desires to join this institution, then merely fill out this form, and send it to linwehn kulin within the city of Haelun’or, and an interview will be organised. This is only for those who are applying for advanced positions within the Consortium. Citizens of Haelun’or need not apply for lay-positions, but foreigners shall have to make contact with city authorities in order to gain entrance.

 

Below the poster there are a number of leaflets; all of which are small enough to fit inside any manner of envelope. The application begins as thus:

 

One’s Name:

The Position one Desires:

One’s Prior Education (if any):

One’s Preferred Field of Study:

Subject of your first Tome:
 

By sending this document to Mr L. Sullas, you acknowledge and pledge to obey all laws and regulations of this Consortium. Do you agree (using any word other than 'yes')?:

Name: L. Sullas

Vote 1: Abstain

 

Vote 2: Abstain

Lucion, being the polite high elf that he is, sucks up his pride, and speaks as warmly as possible upon the subject.

"As much as it is admirable that you are attempting to bridge the gaps between the disparate elven cities, one feels that after numerous, somewhat recent, events would make such a move - if not impossible - dreadfully awkward. This would not be the best time, I feel."

Well, she's a wood elf... plenty of stinky, grassy spots to sleep in at the Cerulin. If no-where can be found, there's a nice, abandoned cave-camp in the caves above it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHGQsehNFM4

 

New sets of posters are set up around the city of Haelun'or, each emblazoned with golden writing, and overly-elaborate silver borders. It stands out from the other, weathered posters surrounding it.

 

Be Aware, Citizen. The Election is Nigh.

 

With the cessation of hostilities between Haelun'or and Oren, it turns to the citizenry to once more elevate one of our own to the office of Sohaer. A semblance of continuity is paramount to our continued existence after these trying times, and we must aspire to all that we are, and can be, once more.

 

The method of election shall be in the usual fashion. It is advised that all possible candidates make themselves known officially here, and then perform the customary campaign speech. 

 

Citizens are also reminded of our new state as a Protectorate under the Kingdom of Oren. Candidates are advised to recall and memorize the conditions of the Silver Binding, and all that it means for our people. 

((https://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/124560-the-silver-binding/))

 

Maehr'sae Hiylun'ehya

I NOIRED FOR YOU, BIRD. YOU OWE ME A EURO!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwvVhXItl1w

 

 

It was regular January night in my office, nearly hitting the eleventh hour. I was deep in a case, and a bottle of scotch. Figures that the case would match the weather - in that it had gone cold. I had clients breathing on my neck at all sides, and my reputation was down the john. I needed a new case. One I could crack. And then, she walked into my office.

 

 

I could tell the moment I saw her, she weren't no low-town doll. She covered herself up well, but she was a class act, through and through. She wasn't one for chit-chat, she got right down to business. Offered me a job. A tough job. But I wasn't in this business to ride the gravy-train to Jacksonville. The only work for a guy like me lies in the scummiest places, that well-to-do P.I.s wouldn't touch. She gave me a piece of paper. It had a name, and a list of questions, each answered in relative detail. It was everything I needed.

 

"And what is it you want me to do with this "Boidwhasperer" dame, dollface?" I ask her. I know there was still scotch on my breath, so made my question brief. She leaned on my desk, and eyed me closely like I was an old, stinking fish. She spoke to me real quiet, and slow.

 

"I want you to support it on the LotC forums." 

 

 

I didn't say a word, at first. There was something twisted in this job. Too simple. Too clean. I didn't like it.

 

I lit up a cigarette, and read over the document one more time. "What's the catch?"

 

She just smiled at me - a smile that would enrapture a younger man - and walked away from my desk. She turned to me once more as she stepped into the doorway. "You have to write it in the form of a 50's film noire."

 

Now everything was out in the open. This job had blood on it. Bad blood. But work was work for a guy like me. "What's the payment?"

 

 

She looked at me differently, now. I didn't know what it was in her eyes. They were an enigma now more than ever. And then she said two words that would haunt me for the rest of my life. "My gratitude."

 

And with that, she waltzed out of my office.

 

 

Women. The greatest thing on God's earth. Nine times out of ten I'd say that. Tonight was that lonely one tenth. But I had a job to do, and I wasn't going to give up on it just yet.

 

bird wud mak a good gm prmote plz thx <3333

Lucion would join UKIP.

First/Last Name: Lucion Sullas!

 

Nickname (if they survive that long): Worm

 

MC skin for reference during customization:

 

 

Preferred class (Assault/Support/Heavy/Sniper): Heavy. He lays down the explody-blams.

 

Helmet or hair?: Helmet, of course! He needs to be safe.

 

Color of armor: White, or baby-blue.

MC Name: Mithradites

 

Skype: michaelcarlson2

 

IC Name: Lucion Sullas

 

Magic/Magics you use/know: Elemental Evocation (though can only use fire and lightning), transfiguration, conjuration, and the basics of illusion.

 

Magic/magics you wish to teach: All of the above, baby! Lets go!

 

How long have you been practicing these magics?: Electro. evo. since 2.5 (and also unofficially conjuration), and transfiguration since the beginning of 3.0. The rest of them my character learned from books after magic was deregulated. I forget when I started which.

Very sorry for my rather late replies, everyone! A man cannot be everywhere! And I don't think there will be a poem this time, sadly. Which is a shame, because we all know that's why you keep returning to this thread. I must await the return of my muse!

 

Okay, this is fairly long so I am going to be putting it in spoilers to see.

 

After reading this a couple of times I will say I greatly like this idea and can see this be extremely fun and interactive if done right. Though this may be long I will begin with some of the negative points that the majority of people see in that it is somewhat restrictive. Currently, there are a plethora of people who know magics that are of different schools by these standards in that we have people that have learnt 3-4 magics some with one of each subtype I once saw someone who knew Electric evocation, telekinesis, Conjuration, aswell as Illusion. Though of course by these standards it would mean he knows magics of 4 different schools which currently isn’t allowed. Now, I am not saying we remove the “Schools” infact I quite like them and that they have names despite them most likely not going to be fully caught on in-game (Least in my chars case). I feel it is somewhat restrictive only allowing basically one school to be learnt as it basically sets the people using them into ‘classes’ of sorts inwhich they will be stuck to doing now what they choose to do with the class is up to them but it prevents them from really studying other magics to help them in their magical studies. The other thing is how exactly would this method be implemented in-game? Would it be done via large events perhaps for magic users only? The mages guild (Even though they are for the most part inactive it seems) or simply accepted and given the “Okay, this is how magic works now.” Mind you I would like to see this implemented but it should be done via events for mages, maybe not a wipe of all magic and restarting but perhaps a change of sorts. Like something from the void randomly spawning into the realm and interfering with magic. Or something akin to that (Who knows).

Next I will move on into what I like about this addition. It is cool because it is a change of pace and gives a different overlook on magic RP, and may be implemented with some cool events. As well, I quite enjoy having school based super spells that can be done in groups as it makes working with other mages a more rewarding feat as you can do much more efficient spells and things with them like as you said teleporting, summoning blizzards, and summoning giant creatures with other mages. The other thing that is cool is the types of mini changes/spells of a kind within the schools abilities in that a thaumaturge is able to bind spectres to them to do their bidding most likely with OOC consent, and able to give a sliver of their mana pool to create a semi perminent conjuration though perhaps restrict it to only 1-2 per person. Though for something like that perhaps require the need of interaction in getting an alterationist to make it with you but be able to make it more ambiguous instead of making an enchantment you create this conjured being that is connected to the mana-pool of the creator. The last thing I like about it besides some other smaller things is the idea of classes being brought into this and having classes that are focused more on the combative side of magic (Though not necessarily forced into it if learnt) and then those on the more studious side, in Wizardry and Thaumaturgy. It can give greater meaning to the magics you pick instead of just learning the magics that you like instead have an actual response to it and semi perminant feeling of learning the magic. Also, it gives more incentive to interact with other mages to make massive spells.

Now, moving on to some ideas that I had that I feel should be explained/changed I will go in a numbered pattern to make it a bit more organized since this is a long post.

 

1. Perhaps since the void is changing we can see a slight change to how magic works so for example if we summon a large enough sum of mana with group based spells. The spells we make can be perminent in a way. That if we conjure a blizzard the blizzard may rage in the region we summon it in, for a set number of time depending on how much mana put forth and number of people and doesn’t require them to be actively be summoning this. Same thing can be said with other magics like in the binding of conjurations and spectres. Though it may diminish the strength of enchanting magic slightly (I don’t feel it would but others might) possibly have a slight change in alteration requiring them to put in effort to summon these spells and act like a catalyst of sorts. If you wish I wrote up arcane rituals as an idea with a few people a bit back and can give the general way how it worked. But in essence the alterationists works as a catalyst and bearer of the groups mana like a battery and with their help is able to output it to make the semi perminent creations, but not require them physical contact allowing them to do it at a distance.

2. To play off of that, perhaps in order to make these group based spells the group creating it could get either a GM or LM Permission, or to oversee the RP if they wish to make a large scale spell. Though not require super detailed lore instead simply say okay this is what we are doing we have so and so number of people helping out with it. Do you think it is possible, and or will you oversee it and give the reaction that will happen.

3. Instead of only being able to master 1 school and to be a great mage only really be able to use one school, instead break it off so it is possible to fully master 2 magics within 2 different schools. So I will take my character for example in that he only knows 2 magics that being Air mysticism and Transfiguration, he is fairly adept in both currently as he has been using both for over a year almost two years on air evocation and doesn’t particularly plan to learn any other magics. Though if put in enough effort why restrict people to only master 1 when they can master others, but as you use different schools simply make it harder on them. So I can only master 2 magic types/schools. But perhaps play in that mastering a magic doesn’t grant them more ability in using. So standard person “T” 4 in conjuration and a person “T” 5 in conjuration who  have been learning for the same amount of time can do the same things summon different things with the same amount of ease but grant the different perks of what you said. So the T5 conjurationist can bind their creations or bind Spectres but is restricted to only mastering 2 schools (This is a rough idea just think more mastery should be allowed) but the T4 one cannot bind these things but is able to learn much more magics just can’t use their “Special” abilities. This can also play into group based spells possibly allowing only people who fully master their magic to partake in them. As this would cut out those who truly want to dedicate themselves but at the same time make it so their isn’t such a large gap between them.

4. Possibly grant these small abilities to each group like how Thaumaturgists are able to bind spirits and their creations. Possibly allow the same thing to be done with the other schools. Not completely sure of what can be given but just an idea.

 

Anyways it was quite long but these are just a short few ideas I had that may be added to this and of course don’t need to be though my main concern is the restrictiveness of it in that you can’t master more than on schools. Some restrictions are good but not one that force you into a niche/class. But that doesn’t mean I don’t like this idea Mith :P it’s very interesting and I hope the LM’s/Admins look it over thoroughly. It is a great change and may be “Controversial” if we can even say that about something on our RP server. But it seems like it has a lot of positive support and you have mine!

Ps: I would remove the idea of Tiers though to it and make it more of a simpler thing such as levels like apprentice-novice-mage-master or something like that, or simply leave it to how it is now and only have “Mastery” to signify essentially T5

 

Now I know this is for Arcane Magic and everything though how does this tie with other archtypes of magic? As an example are you allowed to be a "sorcerer" and be a "Necromancer", ect, tying with dark arts.

 

------

I actually do like this and wouldn't mind sacrificing some RP to put this in place.

 

 

Due to being informed of the blacklist available to halt the actions of OP mages, I have to change my opinion. Ski often speaks from the perspective of your general RPer and I have to agree with him. Restriction is not as great in action as it is on paper. Reorganizing and adding a title to specific schools of magic. That's what's up.

 

The thing is, there are already characters who are really good at multiple things. Good enough to fall under what you would probably classify as "the best." Having more skilled magics doesn't make your character more powerful, just as a warrior skilled with multiple weapons isn't more powerful. It just allows you to be more diverse, more interesting, more of what you want. Sure, we've got an over-saturation of super boss ass master wizards/swordsmen/bowmen (well not really that last one), but eliminating their versatility won't stop their general existence, which is the root of the "problem."

 

 

I don't understand how there isn't already categories for Arcane Magics. There is. Personally I would place Conjuration under "Evocation" as all the same rules apply which means there is 3. Alteration, Evocation, Illusion.

 

 

There is many pages of which I read the first and last, so could you maybe explain how this makes any difference?

 

If its just about becoming more "masterful" of certain branches, or if it is purely roleplay type things, I love it. But it doesn't need to come into contact with the OOC organisation in any way. You can define what a sorcerer is, and what a wizard is. Your explanations are similar to my own mindsets and I referred to "mages" as sorcerers on several occasions to be more specific. But its IC terminology which belongs in an IC situation only.

Equally I think "warlock" needs to be a more common term for someone who has a natural affinity to magic from birth (ie has done little to study it but just "does" it). But these are IC names and have no effect on the OOC structure of magic. I believe Arcane to be the simplest of all magic types to understand in their current structure.

If any divergence one might branch the magics of the mind together (mental, cognitism, telepathy) and then slot the remainders in to similar categories, but then what more does that achieve?

 

https://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/123175-reorganizing-arcane-magic/

Do what I think we should do! Ahurrhurrhurrr!

Though seriously. Apps are not necessary. We just need to restrict magic to be teacher-taught only. Which can be a problem for some in bad timezones.

 

But if you re-organise arcane magic (the only one that was ever truly unlocked, for some reason) in the way /I/ want, that'll no longer be a problem, because there won't be 16-or-so unique types of teacher to seek out. Just four! 

 

You ought to do it, because I wrote a thing! How many things have written? Not as good things, I reckon!

 

I do not see Necromancy on this list.

 

 

We have been forgotten.

 

This is arcane. This is not necromancy! They are different things! Different, separate things!

I answered the restriction-statements on page 4 of this thread. The only thing you're being restricted from is being 'the best' at everything.

My word! Looks at the questions! The love! The hate! The comments! Some full of anger, some full of glee!

Some show confusion justifiably!
Interest, questions, most clever and curious,
Does not leave this writer feeling at-all dubious!
So now I shall give your comments my two-pence!
(Except for yours Booklight, they were far too dense. ;-;)
(But do not believe your words have no sway,)
(I'll simply answer upon another day!)
 

Locking people to a certain archetype of magic simply sounds like a lock on creativity, so I'll have to give this a non-personal -1, sorry.

 

I've noticed a lot of questions like this (just using yours as an example, Leo. But your refusal to unquestioningly agree with me is taken utterly, utterly personal, you fiend.) which I am not sure I agree with. There is nothing stopping you from learning multiple schools of magic, what you -are- being stopped from doing is being a 'master' of each and every school. I knew this could impact people's current RP (I myself am multi-magic'd on my main character) and please, allow me to give my reasoning for this.

 

I was originally interested in writing up this idea after I read a comment by the enigmatic Lagomorphia on this thread  (https://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/123075-bring-back-magic-apps-a-new-system/page-2) I won't put the little quotation box around it so it isn't confused with the rest of the quotes on this rather too-large post.

"As for the Tiering, like any leveling system, it exists on a clock until such a time as everyone starts hitting T5."
(Sorry if I am quoting you out of context or you aren't interested indirectly helping me, Lago)

That is a very good point. All magic is essentially on a clock until ultimate power is reached. Then what? Everyone's brilliant, and then no-one is. Variation and dynamism is lost, and interest wanes. It's an Incredibles Syndrome argument (The character of 'Syndrome,' not an 'incredible syndrome')! The way I figured to stop the inevitable peaking of magic is to make the average/mediocre magic an attractive choice. Tier 3 good! It's an advanced magic-user! Tier 2 is the average, and it ought to be fine too! As a tier 3 you can learn an accompanying tier 2 school or two tier 1 schools. As a tier 2 school you can learn a second tier 2 school, and an extra tier 1 school, or three tier 1 schools! Tiers 4 and 5 are for people who wish to be specialised in their school, and be 'the very, very best,' because I wanted it to still be an option for those willing to dedicate themselves to that degree. And that's fine too! But they needed disadvantages to balance it out and make the average still attractive. I feel it makes a lot of sense, and I feel it justifies losing abilities characters have spread out over other schools. In such a case, consider what you might gain from following a single school as well. Maybe it'll dull the pain somewhat?

As for the creativity argument, as in, this idea limiting you ability to perform creative magics in (alone or in conjunction with one-another), I completely disagree again. Firstly, to begin with a Sesame Street level argument, the only person limiting creativity is yourself (sorry). You'll still be able to do plenty of things yourself at mid-tier. As I didn't really put a definitive list of which abilities would accessible in which tier (purposely, I might add) there seems to be a fear that I'm going to limit you to worm-conjuration or tiny plume-of-flame-evocation. I am not trying to take away your toys. I personally want most things accessible at mid-tier, though you might not be able to perform to the same degree as you do now...? Does that sound like a condom-ad to you guys as well?
Even if you're incapable of being your interpretation of creative, how often are you actually doing these creative things? Once a month? Or maybe I'm wrong. I dunno. Write some examples down here, and I'll try to calm your fears! :DD

 

Otherwise good, but thaumaturgy is alteration.

 

By that I assume you mean that the extra things I propose for that school can all be performed with alteration. I agree, they probably can. Doesn't anyone else think it's odd that to do most things in a subtype of magic, it requires you to have skill in another? Just me?

 

I've been looking over this for a few moments now and read through it. And I'll do so again in a few days to understand everything properly.
But the graph at the bottom, the small picture.

You speak of a restriction upon mages that they can solely have one Tier 5 magic. I find that stupid, to be fully honest. I understand all the talking about it and what not. But a simple fact is that nearly no 'melee'- fighter will respect your magics properly. Restricting one self is just deadly.

And aside from that fact.. not all races have the same life length, thus it'd be completely illogical if a human would be able to get a Tier 5. If an Elf can only do so in the full span of his life. Not everyone has the same length of life. Thus restricting them to a single Tier 5 magic is simply illogical.

But I've always thought this way, since three years ago until today. :)




PS: I like the rest though ! Very well written out. :)

 

I gave my reasoning for parts of this question previously.

 

If you are a tier 5 mage and you are being attacked in close-quarters--Not having them charge at you from 20 metres away, but right at your throat--then you are likely going to lose unless you have back-up. This is how it's always been been, and should still be so now.

 

As for elves being restricted being illogical, yes, I can completely understand the reasoning behind it. It does make sense, but in the spirit of fairness, I don't believe I should limit magical development based on race. Furthermore, I give a reason why elves are limited to the same constraints as humans in the fluff paragraph before the graph. Furtherly furthermore, a school contains more than one of the current subtypes, not like how it is currently.

And also, thank you! :DD
 

It fields a clear structure, but it's very restrictive.

 

Also, I only roughly flew over this, but Tier 5 in Sorcery means basically mastering all the evocations?

 

As for combination spells (electrified water, etc.) I believe if it does not include two mages at once, that is a no-go. That is what I have been told at least.

 

I answered the first statement before.

To the first question, yes, more or less. Because they fit with my set out sorcery theme, and because most of them are essentially the same magic.

As for the second statement, I am unsure. I don't recall that ever being a thing, but if it is a thing, I very much doubt I'd leave it like that in my version.

 

I definitely like Arcane magic getting a rework, but it does feel a bit restrictive and arbitrary in it's restrictiveness. For instance, you've split telekinetics and mind magic up. Given this system, no one could RP a prototypical psychic due to the relevant magics being in two different subtypes.

I'd like to suggest something in place of the single subtype rule:

First, throw out the five tier system, as useful as it was in MAT, it's kinda more than what's needed now. A 3 tier system (Student/Proficient/Master) is all we need.

Second, Allow people to learn all four subtypes under these conditions:
Only one subtype can be mastered. This is your specialty, your focus.
If all four are known, one can't advance beyond the student level. It is forever one they can only dabble in.
All remaining subtypes can't advance beyond proficient. Proficient is the level of your average mage, after all.

Third I'd suggest requiring a teacher for all four schools, but given Arcane has been unlocked, I don't see that happening :(

 

I have never grouped the mind-magic and telekinesis subtypes myself, though I've never really considered a role for the protypical psychic dude. Though it's still possible to be so, just not at a masterful level.

The reason I kept the five-tier idea is because it gives a little more wiggle-room in regards to setting out levels of skill. Changing it to a three-tier system likely won't have any effect, other than making the system less detailed. :P

And why would we let everyone learn every skill to an average level? That means all mages will be able to know every arcane magic! Which kind of defeats the point of doing this in the first place.

 

 

THANKS Obama!!1
 

Of course conjuration is isolated... First Tier 4 Small Bear, now this.

Only because conjuration is so unique in arcane. It's also probably the most interesting subtype, in my opinion. I'm all for super-buffing this school to be in line with the others, don't worry! No tier-4 small bears for me! That sounds more in line with tier 2 in my brain, anyway.

 

Take note that combined powers in the sorcery sect are already able to be done via Blood Magic, and should be confined to this because of the necessity to boost ones' power to create these storms of magic.

 

I tried to find the lore on Blood-magic, but I didn't manage to track it down. If you wouldn't mind throwing me a link, I'll see if I can tickle away those woe-frowns of yours!

 

I have two examples, and since I've personally written them, and recently, it's fresh in my mind.

Borked: https://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/122152-lore-the-notes-of-kalameet-izalith-the-holocron-lexicon/

Borked: https://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/109478-the-notes-of-kalameet-izalith-the-mana-obelisk/

Any Lore which is based off of combining magics to meet an end, borked.

I'd also like to point out this thread... Link No one was fond of tiers, and how they dictated peoples power. Whilst this idea literally re-implements them, and defines each and every power level. This system clearly had the Mat system in mind, and it brings back the restrictive nature which I personally hated from the old Mat.

The removal of the Mat offered one saving grace; it wasn't restrictive on creativity. This undoes that.

 

I am not seeing how either of those are borked, Kala. They both seem easily possible within my Wizardry school. If it's about combining something outside of it, and necessitating a singular individual knowing two vastly different magics to do it, and using more than a single person simply wouldn't work, then I suppose it is borked, yes. I didn't see anything like that, though, but do give me some examples, and I'll try to belay those fears!

As for that "Bring Back the Magic App" thread, glancing through it, you appear to be the only person who was negative towards tiers. Most people didn't mention it, or seemed more interested in keeping away any form of application. Which I am not suggesting here.

 

Fantastic!~ Though given the life-creating nature of thaumaturgy as spoken of, would it not also encompass golemancy?

 

Golemancy is its own beast within magic, and not even within arcane. I wouldn't dare try to touch it. Seriously. There are attack-dogs chained to it and everything.

 

It is probably just me but I see arcane evo fitting better into wizardry. It's evocation sure but that is about as similar as it gets to elemental evocation. It is much more attached to aura magics. Ie. transfiguration and requires much more knowledge than any other evocation.

 

 

I think this format is pretty okay but could use some tweaking. Maybe the LMs are giving this a talk.

 

Anyways that's my two cents.

 

I expected this comment from you, Kitten. :P
 

I originally put arcane shielding/evocation in the Sorcery school because Arcane evocation is an evocation, and because I felt, since the sorcerers were very fighty-fighty, I'd give them a method to keep the sword-guys at bay with arcane shielding. My Wizardry school is themed around study, slow wisdom, and change, in which direct combat feels out of place. I mean, telekinesis can be used to fling stuff, but it doesn't feel like a battle-magic to me.

I could be convinced to put arcane shielding into Wizardry, but I could never be convinced to have arcane evocation anywhere but sorcery. Sorry, dude. :(

 

Ignoring the more controversial topics such as limitations to one type, tiers, group magic and all that jazz.. And just focusing on the renaming aspect, what is the need for that?

 

People as it is are already 'confused' by the variety of magic, I feel changing them around and throwing under a less descriptive title (Sorcery vs. Evocation, which explains more?) is only going to add to the confusion and upset people further. 

 

Don't take this wrongly, I love the new labeling and if we were going from scratch this would be brill.. But for an  already in-depth magic system, surely this will only go on to confuse?

 

Thanks!

Sorcery sounds cool. Sorcerers are cool. Evocation sounds dumb. Evokers sound like a type of Slovakian shrub. That's pretty much my only reasoning. 

I hope my answers were at least semi-satisfactory, guys!!

It seems more like renaming Archtypes, and if I understand correctly, restricts people to a single archtype... Which if that is the case, I'm heavily against the idea. Not to mention, a lot of the "additions" are already largely possible.

Edit: After looking over again, it certainly is pinning people into one archtype... It kills massive amounts of creativity, and actually damages a lot of lore already in place. -1

You call it restriction, I call it 'attractive variance.' What is the end result of learning magic? To be the best, like no-one ever was? Arcane magic is an onwards trek to be super-awesome at everything you get your hands on. Something that's missing (and has always been missing) from arcane is the perpetual 'okay' magic user. In my proposal, these people are the types who want a lot of options, so they keep themselves to more basic levels of magic, and won't actually hobble themselves. On the other hand, you have a guy who wants to be amazing at everything, but realises he can't! So he builds his abilities in one school to crazy levels, and then joins up with a mage of crazy skill in another school to co-create his dreams! He can't do it alone anymore, which kind of sucks I guess, but it does get him out and about making friends! And I think that's the most important thing! Are you feeling me, man? Are you hip to my jive? Are you down with the sickness? D'y'know what I'm sayin'? I sure don't!

And does it really kill a massive amount of creativity? You can still get powers in other branches of magic. You just can't have it all as a tier five. You might have to restrict yourself to lower tiers! You might not get to be the best! You might have to come up with creative solutions to your problems.

Does it damage lore? I didn't think of anything game-breaking here when I was writing it, so I really would appreciate knowing what's broken.

This is actually a pretty interesting suggestion, and definitely a good read. Just a couple questions regarding the idea of limiting based on schools.

First of all, my understanding of primordials is that they're a mix of conjuration and evocation, but wouldn't that be impacted by the ability and limitations that accompany casting from different schools?

Secondly, you have Luxamancy, composed of entirely support magics. It makes sense to group them, but these are all mental things that can't do any physical harm. I worry that the limitations of the schools will have a negative impact on the interest people have in these less direct magics. Do you see focus on sorcery affecting the popularity of other schools like this one?

That's a very good point about the primordials. I suppose it would certainly be difficult for a Thaumaturge (I'll call them my names for now. Let me live my dream!) to do so without knowledge in sorcery, but who is to say he wouldn't? He could have tier three in Thaumaturgy and tier two in sorcery, and get them, but that's assuming they would have access to that ability at tier three, which is information I quite purposely left out of this. If they don't have enough knowledge to do so anymore, they could always invite a happy sorcerer around to help! And then create and bind the **** out of that primordial, man.

The answer to the luxomancy question is really the same as the first. You can always limit yourselves to lower tiers (though again, I am not yet aware which skills will land in what tier) or you could become really good at it, and just never be seen at all! And hey, lack of popularity? Not a problem. That just means the ones who do go to the effort to learn it will feel darn special. And rightly so!

I do like the idea, however if this were to be implemented I have a couple comments.

1. The combination of evocations is usually fine, but anything regarding the nature of lightening evocation is absolutely terrible. It is indisputably the most powerful evocation when facing opponents due to its unrefined ways and "I always hit you" mentality. To allow it to bear combination with water and the likes in evocations just allows it to be further bound and controllable. I mean, honestly speaking I am calling for a lightening evocation nerf, in the current 'meta' of RP combat its nearly always used.

2. To my knowledge with the use of transfiguration and all its sub-types you find yourself having to know the evocation in question to apply the enchantment with a similar enchantment. I see this being a possible issue, maybe?

3. Maybe make a chart of school accessibility relative to tier, so that it can actually be enforced and observed?

1. I quite purposely left the abilities of the magics more to the wayside, and instead concentrated on the plausibility of joining them together in general. Though you do raise valid points about lightning evocation, that's not really a question I feel needs to be answered at this draft-stage. :P Maybe if it gets a little further than that.

2. As far as I know, that's not strictly true. I am sure any clever enchanter can study fire to the point of enchanting things with it. If it is true, though, grab yourself a sorcerer! Friends in need are friends indeed! Hmhm!

3. I did! I made a handy-dandy chart that does that thing you said!

 

(Merged them all together for you!)

Reorganizing Arcane Magic

 

The Arcane school had never been so actively practiced in all of its long history. Those using it were proficient in many schools, and many mastered the deepest aspects of their chosen craft--summoning beasts of great power, conjuring plumes of fire with a thought, and pouring power into deadly enchantments. It truly was a time for Arcanists to flourish and reveal every mystery of the void. But little did they know that the void had secrets unknown to even the most studious mage. The great number of minds creating and pulling within infinity bore an unnatural weight to the realm of nothingness. The void was not a conscious thing, but it had a nature, much akin to the wind directing a cloud, or the changing in the ocean's tide. A change was coming--no, not a change really, but a tremor. A ripple that would shift all that was known about the arcane schools.

The void had no mind, but it would adapt.

 

Something I wanted to do near the end of my time in the MAT (and near the end of the MAT in general) was to reorganize/combine arcane subtypes, and also define the limits of void-based physical weakness. Now that arcane is basically free-for-all with everyone able to learn everything, I figured I'd try to put some easier, definable limitations on arcane, as well as making arcane more convenient to learn.

 

Many of the arcane branches have very similar functions, and have no business being separate subtypes (looking at you, five fundamentally similar evocations). What I want to accomplish is to give a reasonable suggestion for a single, reformed archetype of Arcane, with four subtypes: Sorcery, Wizardry, Thaumaturgy, and luxamancy. I'd also like to add extra abilities for some schools that are a tad sparse, but we'll see how much support this 'mission statement' gets first before we make knitty-gritty decisions like that.

 

Sorcery

 

(http://nahelus.deviantart.com/)

 

Those that seek raw, undulated power look to the many skills of the sorcerer. Though all arcane magii are studious, those within the schools of sorcery are less inclined to learn from grand, dusty tomes. They learn through hardship, experience and above all, the continuous application of their power. Fueling their array of destructive forces with chaotic emotions and overwhelming willpower, they are individuals to be treated with caution. More-so, when they are in great numbers.

 

Current Subtypes Tossed into this School

 

-Electrical Evocation

-Fire Evocation

-Water Evocation

-Earth Evocation

-Wind Evocation

-Arcane Evocation

-Arcane Shielding

 

Possible Additions:

-Group-based super-spells: E.g. creating Blizzards, tornadoes, lightning-storms etc.

-Combination spells: Fiery boulders, electrified water etc

 

Wizardry

 

(http://tira-owl.deviantart.com/)

 

The slow and contemplative sect of Arcanists, the wizard is a bulwark of knowledge and study. They are beings of learning, who would more likely be found deep in a cavernous library studying the deeper mysteries of their art, rather than adventuring through the lands. Their skills lie mostly in the manipulation of the world around them, rather than the more direct route taken by the others schools. Wisdom and intelligence define this school, and those who are proficient are afforded great respect.

 

Current Subtypes Tossed into this School

 

-Transfiguration (includes enchantments, transmutation, and wards)

-Telekinesis

-Void Translocation

 

Possible Additions:

-Group-based super-spells: Teleportation, enormous wards, etc

-Combination spells (though already possible in lore, greater afforded fluidity): Floating towers, larger things lifted, etc.

 

Thaumaturgy

(Thaw-mah-ter-jee. Shut up, I liked the name!)

 

(http://mysticaldonkey1.deviantart.com/)

 

Though arguably as studious as a Wizard, the Thaumaturge can be seen, often unjustly, as more sinister. Skilled in the study of life, these fringe-magii focus not on destruction, change, or trickery, but on creation. Preferring quiet laboratories to explore the workings of living beasts, they use their considerable arcane power create their own. For what purpose they do so is unknown. Perhaps such is why they are feared? But more likely because others would not understand.

 

Current Subtypes Tossed into this School:

 

-Conjuration (including morphons, primordials, and perennials)

 

Possible Additions:

-Binding creations in existence with a permanent slice of mana taken away from the user (unless the creature is de-summoned)

-Non-existent, custom-designed creatures for higher tiers (so long as their biology is logical)

-Attracting and trapping spectres, then binding them to their will.

-Group-based super-spells: creating larger creatures with the combined mana of multiple Thaumaturges, summoning void-creatures and binding them to this world.

 

Luxamancy

 

(http://shininmysticice.deviantart.com/)

 

More secretive than even a Thaumaturge, the Luxamancer heralds the school of manipulation and trickery. The school itself has a poor reputation, if only due to the individuals who are attracted to it. A Luxamancer is not one to be kept in the confines of a library or laboratory, and actively seeks subjects to test their power upon. They are devious and manipulative by their nature, and will rarely tell the whole truth in any situation. They ought to be considered dangerous, but you wouldn't have seen one anyway. Unless, of course, they wanted you to.

 

Current Subtypes Tossed into this School

 

-Light Illusion

-Mental Magic

-Cognitism

 

Possible Additions

-Group-based Super-spells: Grand illusions, invisible houses, memory rewriting.

 

All the things written in here (especially the expansions and group-abilities) are all up for debate, and are hypothetical along with all other suggestions, here. This entire concept is, after all, a rough draft, so don't get too upset about decisions I made! Another important note that you may have noticed is that I have left out a number of arcane subtypes, notably bardmancy, beardmancy and the two Fi’hiiran anti-magics. This is because I couldn't find a place to put them (and because some of them are too silly). And even if I did, they were too out of place with the other ones. Better in my opinion to keep them separate, or remove them entirely. I wouldn't be opposed to joining the two Fi’hiiran magics together, though.

More importantly, the simplification of the subtypes allows for a more concise management of the main arcane weakness (That is, physical weakness) and also allows another weakness to balance out their power-boom. It furthermore makes arcane magic more convenient to learn--finding a teacher for four different fiddly evocations can be painful.

 

As an Arcanist grows in power, they will inevitably find themselves drawn to the schools that interest them most. In many situations, of course, they will also delve into the studies of other arcane schools. Though the more advanced they become in their preferred school, the more other schools will feel... wrong. Mana doesn't flow as it should. Sometimes it is painful to use their secondary abilities, other times disastrous. These other schools in turn seem to stop mages from advancing further in their preferred school--those magics contradicting and prohibiting one-another.  There are only two options for a mage at this time; to accept the limitations of their powers, or abandon these 'lesser' schools.

 

There can no longer be total mastery of all magical schools. This means there will always be a varied number of 'average' mages, and also those of greater power. The two weaknesses can be summed up in this handy-dandy chart I threw together in MS Paint. Tiers are just a placeholder for whatever magical ability is measured with nowadays.

 

 

(By the way, I didn't mention this before, but I feel that household magic ought to be the pre-beginner's magic. Just to have new folks ease into it, y'know? It's still non-combative)

 

So, that's basically the rough draft of my idea. If you have any suggestions about implementation, or subtypes I have missed, or you're just a big complainer, or you dislike hamsters, or you think mince pies are delicious please comment, and throw you idea-pies in my face! You know you want me to!

Remember that all names, combinations and abilities are not final! And there is no tl;dr you can bloody read it.

How can your character be three different alignments? They cancel each other out. I mean, he could be just insane and evil so his personality tends to jump all over the place, but wouldn't that just make him chaotic evil?

Or, if he's totally insane, wouldn't he just be chaotic neutral?

A steadfast golem of iron, puffing steam as it walks, slowly and methodically places small, printed documents upon any of the notice it sees. The machine itself appears freshly polished, though still stained black in places from thick smoke pouring from its back. Each of the documents appear curiously identical despite their number, and the golem disappears from the area once its deed is performed.

 

The documents read as thus--

 

"An unpleasant sight it is, to see evil proclaimed due to a closed door. Equally so, for it to be proclaimed with so little merit in its arguments. Firstly, let us examine a plausible scenario this document likely reacts towards.

 

A reasonable assumption would be that the gates were closed upon Mr Dwarf's arrival. Seeing this, he obviously demanded entry. The guard would have announced, as is the right of any declared guardsman of a state, that as an outsider it would be preferred he remain outside. Irked, Mr Dwarf left the area in a rage, due to the state's inclusive policies not meeting his idealised standards.

 

He goes on to speak upon the dangerous circumstances of the road travel--it being the only defense for his irritation. The document becomes troubling when Mr Dwarf believes that the apparent lie of an all-inclusive society merits the town's immediate destruction. Furthermore, he declines to perform decent and respectable research into the circumstances under which this policy was suspended. 

 

One is lead to deduce four possibilities as to why this document was written and distributed:

 

Oem- Mr Dwarf has a woeful mental instability in which he continuously bounds between multiple emotional plateaus for no discernible reason.

Niut- Mr Dwarf is highly irritable, and partially Orcish, whom desires destruction in the face of an obstruction.

 

Hael- A Mali'ame bullied him during his childhood, and he has never been able to overcome his feeling of impotence among his fellow dwarves.

 

Vailu- Chancellor Artimec accidentally trampled Mr Dwarf's dog while upon his horse. 

 

One hopes Mr Dwarf was able to work through his anger, and return as a stronger, more independent individual."

 

 

No room appears to have been left for the signature, due to the blocky letters being too large.

The two reasons that I'm not fully satisfied with HE RP:

- I can't find any people to be racist with. I mean, we should all get together in a band and walk into the Standing Inn and insult random people. It's a perfectly normal characteristic of the aheral.

- No one is at the Haelun'or gates to let me in. D:

People tend to kill them for that, these days. :(

And that sucks about the gate, dude. But keep trying! Timezones can be a pain!