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Posts posted by IsaaKc
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Spoiler
BASED JADEPOSTING
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sorry man no one does 1 year AMAs, therefore your thread is irrelevant
what’s your opinion on the direction of the economy of the server
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This is aight but it would’ve worked better as an rp post tbh
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I think it's a good clarification piece, and it definitely informs people that their Aura doesn't have to be confined to their eyes glowing.
That being said, and this is moreso a suggestion if anything, I think it oughta be wise to add this bit in:
Blue: Calculatedness and logicality (Sometimes emotional coldness)
Purple: Mysteriousness
White: Benevolence, order and innocence.
Brown: Nurturing and caring
Yellow: Greed (Sometimes optimism)
Red: Dominance, power and control (Sometimes tyrannical natures)
Green: Harmony and balance (Sometimes vanity).
Black: Chaos and malevolence.
Although these were only canon at one point, it is pretty much the general consensus that people follow in RP. Of course, characters are allowed to deviate from this and create their own theses on Aura, but I do believe that inserting this bit as the most popular interpretation of Auras would be helpful to new and old Mages.
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CRINGE STOP IT
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If Lightning Evo honestly had some sort of out-of-combat use besides "conjure sparks" then I'd be much more liberal towards the Magic coming back, but it's always been a bland combat Magic, and I don't think that it ever will be anything more than a bland combat magic.
That and the fact that understanding the physics of lightning is like quantum mechanics for the average LotCer's brain to process.
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I understand the intention, I really do, and I don’t think that this is by any means “bad,” but it just doesn’t have much going for it in my opinion besides immortality. No neat cantrips, no rituals, just not much that encourages roleplay with others besides the revival system.
That being said, I also have a problem with this being open. Even if the ritual can only be learned through roleplay, I imagine it will easily spread far and wide in a similar manner to Squak’s Voidal Feats and thus succumb to oversaturation and create some really unenjoyable RP.
EDIT: decided I’d add a bit more to this. I personally think that it’s just best to give up on the pipedream that quite a few have of some sort of Voidal Magic CA. Considering the current state of Voidal Magic and the recently released feats that Squak wrote, I think that stuff like this just adds more fuel to a fire that can’t be extinguished unless executive action is taken.
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WOW PAL ADDING TO PRE-EXISTING LORE IN THE FORM OF AN ADDITION? SOUNDS LIKE POWERCREEPING
-1 CHOKE ON DRY AUTUMN LEAVES
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23 minutes ago, ๖ۣۣۜ҉𝔘nwillingly said:
ppl laugh at hur dur minecraft roleplay but don't realize how truly engaging and significant some of the storylines on here can be and its kind of sad that most of us probably don't tell anyone what we do on LOTC irl
nothing says an engaging storyline like 40 orenians walking up to the sutican gate to "coup"
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21 minutes ago, kill_MAPS said:
do you like how i walk
do you like how i talk?
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wanna rewrite archons
SpoilerRAISED RIGHT
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minecraft
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shame.
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does he sus
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thinkin bout finland
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Self taught azdrazi moment
+1
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24 minutes ago, Mavromino said:
Isaac's example was perhaps a bad one so as me and him are kind of in agreement on this issue I'll elaborate. Isaac, and myself to a degree, believes that all magics should have some permanent physical or mental downside to them that applies even when not casting. For instance, the voidal mage's weakness or a the obsessions of a blood mage. This magic lacks any such permanent downsides so it would be a straight upgrade for say a melee combat character as they'd now have ranged abilities with 0 consequences. While the inability to sustain other magic's is perhaps a step in the right direction we feel that it is too minor as to use the example of a man with a full-thanhium armoury he will not care about losing access to druidism and will therefore only receive upsides. In regards to an issue with the existence of an astral magic I personally have no stake in that debate.
This put my complaint into better words. Like I said, I think all Magics should have some permanent ailment (not necessarily crippling) that makes the player and character ponder on whether or not the Magic is really worth it. If it’s an instant “yes” and a straight upgrade, it needs more substance in its drawbacks.
And I’m glad that amendments have been made to my examples, but my point above still stands.
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On 1/24/2021 at 8:33 PM, Vaynth said:
I wrote a lot of the lore with Tox so I'll be responding to these points. Sorry for the lack of clarification when you asked earlier.
On 1/24/2021 at 6:21 PM, altiar1011 said:1. Complete lack of any genuine 'weakness.'
While a Lunarite casting implement can be used, it is able to be broken or taken from the caster. If they can't retrieve it, they would have to emote pulling out their tome and using even more mana and time to cast again after their focus is broken. In this time of fumbling around their safety could easily be compromised. Having an obvious casting implement in your hands is also a way to make others aware of your abilities and more cautious around you in the first place.
The need for Vesperal Ink adds another component that should be considered. It's something you mentioned but seemed to overlook the significance of. An Astral Sorcerer's tome is unique to other spell books because it takes a limited component to write the glyphs inside. This component can only be obtained once every 3 irl days(might be changed to a week) and is also used to preform rituals. We are currently considering adding a cool down on how often books can be created as well. If the source of the ink is compromised, it takes additional irl days to repair the Star Well. One being destroyed could render the Sorcerer powerless for quite a while, leaving them open to whoever or whatever decides to target them.
Another drawback is Astral Sorcery's incompatibility with most other magics. Tox will work on expanding the list of incompatible magics listed in the lore. Speaking of incompatibilities, that's another drawback to the magic. It can't be stacked with most other forms of magic like Arcanism could be.
I firmly believe that not all magic needs to have physical weakness, aside from over exertion of the mana pool which is very easy to do with the higher tier spellsOn 1/24/2021 at 6:21 PM, altiar1011 said:3. General lack of redlines.
Stay tuned for more redlines. Thank you for the suggestions.
Very very late to this thread, but I've been intending to comment on this for a little while.
Timegating rituals/specific weaknesses to spells/incompatibility with other Magic are NOT drawbacks/downsides. They are minor inconveniences and do not promote roleplay. I agree that not all Magics need to have a devastating downside that makes you a wet noodle, or cripples your character in some way, but upon getting the Magic/reaching a certain point, there should be an explicit detrimental or unfavorable change that serves its purpose to promote roleplay and not just exist to balance the Magic out. I'm sorry, but at the end of the day, there's no roleplay that can be generated from "oh no my wand is broken, now I have to pull out my BOOK and cast!" or "I can only do x many rituals because I can't get another component until three days later/a week later!"
Despite the fact that I disagree with the thematic execution of this lore and I think any sort of Astral "Magics" are better left off the server, it would be wise to write something in that not only makes the character consider if they want to pick up the Magic, but a gimmick that makes the player ponder on the Magic's pros and cons. A Magic/CA transformation that anyone will near instantly say "yes" to probably needs more balancing not only to ensure the Magic isn't bloated/overpowered, but to ensure that roleplay can be created based off the unfavorable effects of the acquired lore application.
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Cool lore Noz, as always. Though please specify in Immortuos that it doesn’t enhance the strength/speed/motor skills of the afflicted person—just to idiot proof it.
+1
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On 2/2/2021 at 4:30 AM, BrandNewKitten said:
I did not create Arcanism with any intention of it having an edge of other magi. I created a magic based on aesthetic and the freedom to choose what you did with it. It was largely used in events and the system of magic simply outgrew its standards. The only blatant thing about it is its diversity.
Disagree. I understand that it wasn’t your intention, but the lore was written in such a vague and non-descriptive way there was no solid base for the effects of spells. As a result, it got powergamed and abused beyond Hell, notably outside of events and mostly in CRP. Arcanism got shelved as a result of being an incredibly bland Magic that had around 30 combative spells in varying versatility, plus over-stigmatization after being spread to everyone and their grandmother. The new lore standards made its issues realized, and it was dealt with very appropriately.
On 2/2/2021 at 4:30 AM, BrandNewKitten said:It is upsetting to see so many people who used my lore slandering me and my years of work just so they can pander to the current ST. I loved my magic, I was a master of its artistic uses, and I understood why it had to go. I also understand why people want something like it back but please all who attempt to re-write my **** be a little kinder. Its hard to read something only to see a tags like this on the end. I’d like to return to my magic someday instead if feeling ostracized.
Yeah pal, I’m sure that “harass BNK” is at the top of the ST’s agenda. There’s been some less than kind remarks about your lore, but also some very appropriate criticism. People may say what they wish to.
On 2/2/2021 at 4:30 AM, BrandNewKitten said:As for actual feedback;
Arcanism leaving the realm shouldn’t be explained via lore documents. It needs proper event lines if even just a small part returns. Otherwise it will still be missing the one thing that lead to its eventual hard shelving. Why? Why does it exist and what long term effects does it have on the world? How does this go from being a clique magic into being something cultural again?
No it doesn’t. Just let people leave it up to their characters’ interpretations instead of shoehorning in some unnecessary event line. I’d understand if it was a deity magic or something of similar design, but Voidal Magic doesn’t need to have some complex explanation behind a shelf.
On 2/2/2021 at 4:30 AM, BrandNewKitten said:It should also be noted that if this lore below is accepted then you would very likely be able to do arcane weaponry, art, and structures.
To my understanding, this lore literally only lets you make neat aesthetic contraptions. It contains nothing that panders to the aesthetic of Arcanism, nor resembles it behind allowing materials to glow. Having heard the author of Arcane Sculpting’s thoughts and intent with this lore, is stated in the introduction that it alludes to Combustionary’s old MArt and the culture surrounding it. There’s more intent behind this piece then just being lazy aesthetic that let’s you make **** glow.
Unrelated, but I see you bring up Arcanism/Celestialism on near every post you make. Do you want a medal or something?
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sorry this doesn’t qualify. a runesmithing rewrite must fall under one or more of the following prerequisite conditions below:
a. must be written to be overloaded and vaguely descriptive and powerful
b. must be written by an ST that decides to give a magic desperately needing of flavor and depth absolutely none at all
0/10
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Ah yes. Archons.
+1
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what do you MEAN I don’t have 23 blatantly overpowered 3 emote spells in my lore?? how can I WIN if arcanism isn’t a 1 slot overloaded magic??
-1 **** concept plus you’re white
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Probably 13yo me and my ragtag RP group full of dumb mages and Mordskov veterans on our way to kill DjCrips’ halfling for the 7th time after we were subject to their relentless metagaming and powergaming to try and get an edge over us.
A close second would be getting removed from world team for saying intercourse phallus
3
How To Play a Voidal Mage - A Rough Guide
in Magic
Posted · Edited by Isaacc
Preface
Before I begin this guide, I want to address something that I know is going to show up in the comments of this thread. Voidal Magic, in its current position, is very flawed both structurally and thematically. The Void, a metaphysical body that holds terrors and cold, bitter truths incomprehensible to the average joe, is being misappropriated to serve as a narrative explanation as to how Mages sling fireballs around. Additionally, many of the Magicks encompassed in Voidal Magic have their own flaws and inconsistency. This, I all acknowledge and am in concurrence with. I wish for change just as much as you do. That being said, I believe it wise to make the best of the situation you're given, which is why I have decided to write this guide for an objectively flawed subtype of Magic.
The Mage's Influence on New Players
What goes unrealized by many on the server is how Mage personas impact fresh players that have just joined. I wanted to get this out of the way, as I consider this a cornerstone of why this guide is necessary. Simply put, new players often look to Mages for roleplay guidance. Picture this:
You just logged onto the server after learning you got accepted. Excited to find people to interact with, you quickly rush out of the Cloud Temple after setting up your character card and find yourself confronted by an Orenian human, aiming to recruit you for the ISA. You consider the offer in roleplay and exchange Discord tags, then continue on with your journey. After running down the roads for awhile, you run into about four players, all exchanging emotes with one another. Among them is a Mage, muttering an incantation and hurling a large ice spike towards the presumed aggressor's chest. Immediately, as an impressionable new player, you're amazed at the scene. This person is a mage, they must be caught up in SOME sort of interesting situation since they're doing Magic RP, you think. Once the altercation settles, you eagerly begin talking to the Mage and querying their Arcane ability, hungry to know more. Before you know it, you're following them into the local tavern for further conversation.
Of course, this is often not the case, but due to LotC's notoriety for Magic related lore, new players may generally look to Mages for guidance in the new world that they're immersing themselves in. Chances are, you, a Mage, may have more influence over what a new player's next action is over a human or dwarf that's trying to recruit them. This is why it's so damn important that Mages set a good precedent for roleplay. The way you present how Magic is roleplayed on the server and how your character interacts with it will quite possibly be their first impression of the server, and possibly even roleplay as a whole. This isn't a jab or assertion of superiority over non-magical playerbases, but its just a common trend and it is what it is: new players are very very often drawn to Magic roleplay.
So What's the Problem?
Listing every difficulty with the current Voidal Magic playerbase would take away the purpose of this guide, so I'll simply point out what I believe to be the key issues as to why Mages are played so poorly as of the past few years. I've narrowed it down to three core problems:
- The trend of Magic being scientific in roleplay and little attempt to break away from it
- A lack of player-created cultures/motives
- Its use as OOC Empowerment and minmaxing
"Scientific" Magic Roleplay
If you don't understand what I'm talking about when I say scientific Magic roleplay, I mean the most common descriptions of Voidal Magic by Mages. The kind of things you hear in roleplay that go along the lines of "Evocation is a subtype of Voidal Magic that allows the user to manifest pure elements by picturing them in the Void and drawing them into the material realm," or "Transmutation is a subsect of Transfiguration that gives Mages the ability to manipulate the Mana makeup of an object, such as changing its temperature, shape, color, and density," and stuff that looks like it came straight out of a lore post without any regard for in-universe interpretation.
To be completely fair, this problem isn't unique to recent Voidal Mages. This is the result of older Mages and the precedents for roleplay they set—some of which have expressed regret for aiding in the creation of this style. This style was passed down from teacher to student through several generations, and as a consequence, has led a very bland and non-whimsical way of Magic roleplay—hardly even "magical" due to how over explained it all is.
Be Vague and Whimsical
It can be difficult to change the way you express something in roleplay, but the best advice I can offer as a solution to over-scientific Voidal Magic roleplay is to take a step back and look at what makes Magic so enjoyable in other media. Let's take Star Wars as an example (spoilers ahead for the +40 year old movie franchise). In the Original Trilogy, the Force is displayed as something otherworldly and autonomous, acting in mysterious ways. It may be as subtle as sending visions to characters when danger draws near, or seen as crude displays in which its users may channel the Force to manipulate people and the environment. There isn't ever a solid, defined explanation for what the Force exactly is. All the viewer and characters know is that is just is.
However, this changes with the Prequel Trilogy that came out a little over twenty years later. It was "revealed" that one's ability to use the Force was now determined by the amount of microorganisms—dubbed "midichlorians"—they had in their body. This drew away from the mystical and ominous nature of the Force, as it now seemed that one's prowess with such was much more scientific and less "magical." I see this as similar to the problem Voidal Magic roleplay is plagued with at the moment. Too much science and overelaboration leads to a dull experience. It's much more fun to fill in the blanks yourself rather than have some stuffy explanation forced down your throat.
Try to put yourself in this mindset. Have your character come up with their explanations and theories on how Magic works that don't operate off of over-scientific tomfoolery. Have debates over it in roleplay, write books about it, share those books, incorporate your character's theories and theses into their teaching, passing the knowledge down to your apprentices for them to build upon and teach. When someone asks you, "what is Evocation?" in roleplay, maybe you'll say "Evocation is the manifestation of elements dependent on your emotional well being and willpower" or "Evocation is a gift that my family have been passed down for generations as a tool to enact our will and keep our bloodline prospering." In essence, don't just reword what the lore says—put yourself in the shoes of your character and create some sort of analogy or logic in their eyes that explains why they have their Magic and how it works.
Lack of Culture and Motive
One of the most common complaints I see among Mages is that the Lore Team never wants to give them anything interesting to do with their Magic, and that the Lore Team only mean to constantly beat down on Voidal Magic like a worn out punching bag. This is not the case. Voidal Magic encompasses what are effectively neutral Magicks that have no obligation to Dark or Holy beings, and thus are perfect for persona interpretation and the creation of culture. This sort of goes hand-in-hand with the problem of over-scientific roleplay. Because everyone is stuck in this mindset that Magic must be roleplayed one specific way, unique cultures fail to develop among groups of players, and when they do, they don't last long usually.
Just as often as I see a presence of culture, I rarely see quality incorporation of Magic into a character's goals or motives. This results in people basing their character entirely around Magic and nothing else. Ideally, your Magic shouldn't define your character, but your character should define Magic. Your character's actions shouldn't necessarily be act towards Magic, but instead your character's goals and motives could be influenced and enacted through Magic.
Incorporation of Culture and Motives into Roleplay
As I said, the fact that Voidal Magic is very loose and abstract in how it may be interpreted, there's nothing stopping your character from building up cultures around such. Maybe among your Mage associates, create a sort of hierarchy that allows Mages to be seen through a different lens. In another example, a group of elitist Mage aristocrats could form a political party within a city, the aim being to take control of it and better it through the use of the Arcane.
These sort of motives and cultures can be even more easily expressed and create narratives of RP than can affect everyone with the introduction of recently accepted world lore and Feats that give Mages even more freedom, allowing a myriad of intriguing narratives to be produced. Take Voidal Tear lore, for example. Although there isn't direct motive or reason to create a Voidal Tear within the lore itself, a Mage may have numerous reasons personalized to their own hopes and objectives, such as an old wrinkly elf sorcerer giving up hope in the world, and thus looking to open Voidal Tears as a means of drawing an apocalypse nearer, or a crazed dwarf seeking communion with Horrors, and ripping holes in the Veil as a medium of potential contact.
To summarize, the most dynamic way to incorporate culture and character motive into your Magic is to make things up (so long it doesn't break any lore). Think about the bigger picture and how your narratives could not only impact you and your fellow Mages, but other personas outside of your cliques. There's plenty of room for Voidal Magic to create interesting narratives. You're the painter, and Magic is simple the brush.
OOC Empowerment and Minmaxing
Let's tackle the elephant in the room—minmaxing and empowerment of your character for OOC reasoning. If you're unfamiliar with the term "minmaxing," it's a meta term on LotC for the act of filling up all five of your Magic "slots", often quickly, with arts that are the most expansive and/or may provide an ideal advantage in combat. This phenomenon is not unique to Voidal Magic, but is most commonly seen in Voidal Mages. Instead of promoting roleplay, collecting Magic like baseball cards becomes a sort of game to get an edge in a particular sector on the server. It should also be noted that just because all of one's slots are full, does not always have a correlation with that player minmaxing. Minmaxing is something that will never be entirely eradicated on the server as it is entirely based on what kind of player you are, but it is best to be constantly decouraged.
The issue with minmaxing is that it largely waters down roleplay and turns any sort of Magical discussion in character into an argument over who has the best Yu-Gi-Oh cards. What could be a tasteful discussion between two Mages on their own theories and study is instead a superiority contest based on who has more slots filled or "better" Magic, which not only hurts your own characters' narratives, but those around you.
Be Thematic and Consistent
I'm guilty of having minmaxed too, I won't lie. That being said, through my wrongs, I've found that OOC-based motive for power be averted through limiting your character's MA slots and being incredibly chaste when your persona picks up a new magic. I would like to clarify that this doesn't mean it's bad, per se, to occupy all five of your slots, but each selection should be considered carefully from an OOC perspective. The reason being that through picking up Magic that often goes hand-in-hand with the theme of your character, you are limiting how much room you have to minmax and pick up "ideal" Magic.
To further elaborate on this, let's say that your Mage is a thirty year-old farfolk. He's garnered lots of experience and wisdom through the past twenty years, and gives off a very calm and collected demeanor, deeming it best to act with effective, yet organized means. This attribute is reflected through his use of Water Evocation—a very fluid, serene, yet effective means of Magic in combat. Now, let's say that upon entering a city and meeting some new folk, he's offered Fire Evocation by a teacher. Would it make any sense thematically for one who is calm, composed, and wise to pick up something as destructive and volatile (literally) as Fire Evocation? Sure, it would be an ironic contrast, but it wouldn't make much sense for the character at their current age and state.
This isn't to say that a Magic couldn't be picked up as an intentional polar opposite of their character's personality, (such as a very gullible, naïve, push-over Dark Elf learning Earth Evocation, which is durable and tough) and could actually work quite well if executed correctly. However, the reality of the situation is that most Mages pick up Magic offered to them with no regard for how their characters may actually perceive the Magics. They accept MAs because they want them, not the character itself.
When all is said and done, you're much more likely to create interesting, complex characters through limiting your Magical knowledge intentionally and being conservative in what sort of arts your character decides to practice. Maybe your Mage doesn't know every spell in the lore, or maybe your Mage wasn't aware of the effects of a niche Magical creation that you just heard about in roleplay. You don't have to be the "scholarly Mage" that knows everything and has the capability to DO everything.
Things to Remember
- Don't feel trapped within the standard of roleplay that old Mages have built up and contemporary Mages continue to enforce.
- Be creative and have your character create their own theories and laws surrounding Magic, even if it's ridiculous and easily falsifiable from an OOC perspective.
- When you read Voidal Magic lore, read in-between the lines and ponder on what sort of narratives could be crafted—don't limit yourself to just what the lore intends/allows (don't powergame, that's not what I'm asking you to do).
- Don't let Magic define your character, let your character define their Magic and incorporate it into their motives and long-term goals.
- You don't have to know everything about your Magic in roleplay. If your character wasn't taught a specific spell and they see another Mage use it, act intrigued or surprised.
- Be chaste when selecting Magic to learn on your character and ensure that it ties in with their own personality/attributes in some way.
- Create narratives not strictly for your own enjoyment or empowerment, but keep a bigger picture in mind and think about how you can impact roleplay outside of your niche/group.
Purpose
As I said in the beginning of this post, Voidal Magic is in a rock and a hard place right now. We hope for a resolution, but in the meantime I want to give misguided Mage players a push in the right direction and broaden their perspective a tad. As someone who had been doing the exact opposite of what I've specified in this guide for around the past three years, I like to think that I know what I'm talking about, and I hope that my experience can be carried on and passed down to others as fuel to correct bad habits within Mages and produce narratives that can bring something to the table that most people can enjoy.
Credits
Isaac - Author
Pundimonium, Spoon, Snow - Helped me organize my thoughts a bit better
ScreamingDingo - Various rants in Lore Discord that gave me an idea of what needed to be addressed in this guide.