satinkira

I am so tired 162 replies is not what I had in mind. I'm going to stop replying to this thread because my brain is so fucked rn with this convo, I hope it was a good discussion for some people at least and presented some new ideas. It did for me (I have also heard that some folks are using this thread as a justification for calling all canonists homophobic and to attack religious people. Please don't, that's obviously stupid and intolerant and actually harms the cause you purport. Let's be civil and nice please)

I have yet to read any kind of fantastical story that doesn't reference the difference between Kings and peasants; I have read a great many that don't bear reference to homophobia I have very strong memories of it, as narthok said it may have been him

I've already gone over this. LotC is a narrative medium, yes, but it's based in a fantastical setting. Removing class differences is foolish because it's an integral part of fantasy narratives; consider House Lannister, for example. No-one is arguing for this. Also, roleplaying a noble isn't going to offend anyone nor cause problems, unlike the topic in discussion. On the topic of racism roleplay, I do believe that human-on-human racism roleplay virtually doesn't happen and is handled quickly by moderation when it shows up (I spoke to an admin a few days ago who stated that individuals who discriminated against each other based on skin colour in humans tended to get handled within hours).

that surprises me since I joined hnor fairly early pre-rozania when I first showed up and I didn't see anything, do you know if it was popularised throughout hnor or if it was just one bad egg

I'm fairly certain that the SS skins haven't happened at the very least post-Arcas, and the crucifixions were happening in rozania thanks to savoyard crusaders which would have been late 2021 I think

I'd say it's massively unfair to talk abt SS skins because it implies that it's a recent thing, when in reality that level of shit hasnt happened for years. Canonists were crucifying gay ppl more recently than this, though they of course don't do anything of the sort nowdays

I actually agree with you, with consideration, in that my original statement of IRL prejudices is too broad; I'd narrow it down purely to IRL-esque racism and homophobia in RP for what I'd want banned. The thing about religious conflict IRP is that it's somewhat unavoidable and unbannable because Darkspawn often act through religious motivation, the key difference being that their deity gives them powers and transformations. As for high elves, well, I'd personally be in favour of Haelun'or being banned from using acid pits to burn people alive, but they don't really do that anymore and my understanding was that staff blocked them from doing it early after Arcas. Their 'purity' being based around skin colour and hair isn't really true from my experience - I've only seen that sort of thing from the Bronze Band (my character was once slipped a 'vanity' potion that turned them into the ideal form of perfect beauty. The toga elf pmd me saying blond hair, pale skin and blue eyes), which in my opinion is really really odd.

to be sure, it was rude (I don't disagree with her main point though minus the disrespect), but I'm instead making a point about unhelpful generalisations of all LGBTQ ppls as being disrespectful of reilgions. I do accept that the same could be said of the reverse, which is why I clarified in the main post that I accept that not all canonists are homophobic

people being LGBTQ and disrespecting religion is by no means synonymous and should not be assumed to be such

I in fact have heard of that; I have also been told that the last time they were used was just after Arcas after staff said it wasn't allowed

high elves aren't allowed to call dark elves the n-word and no-one is looking to introduce gay genderfluid half-orc saints into canonism; I understand the point of hyperbole but you're being ridiculous. imo your point about wanting to introduce 21st century standards on human rights/moral norms is also bullshit lmfao; I replied to a status update abt this recently but the really basic points about the sanctity of life, legal rights, religious freedoms, are all trampled into the mud by both elves and humans and its disingenuous to suggest that removing irl-based prejudice is going to lead to a woke-ification of lotc. gritty dark fantasy medieval groups like necros play perfectly satisfactory villains and embrace the medieval and fantastical role without homophobia. as for wanting to remove the canonist church, that isn't my aim and it isn't something I support on the matter of the vision for the server - it's a generally accepted fact that lotc has no set niche and that it basically depends where you go, which is fine because different communities roleplay differently. canonism and medieval european larp has its place, as druidism has its place, as spooks have their place.

wow I thought the world was sparkles and rainbows actually I disagree with you (again) on your presumption that people can't call for change on the forums AND log on and RP. You've no clue what I do with my personas nor how I spend my IRL time, but you somehow managed to incorrectly assume and state both; as if people who disagree with you are, by default, and damned to be nolifers or OOC schemers. I'm engaging in plenty of RP; I'm very satisfied with how the narratives of my characters, Serwa and Yandel (Gholug has only just gotten going) are progressing, and I'm having a lot of fun with them. Hopefully, with Serwa especially, something will be made; I can't guarantee it, but that's the best thing about roleplay, nothing is guaranteed. I would urge you to comprehend and grasp that people can live a rich and fulfilling life whilst roleplaying and engaging in things you dislike (forum posting! eeguh). I know you're a smart guy, and I genuinely don't disagree with many of the sentiments you express, but you just gotta not be so rude because it devalues what you and just makes you so insanely wrong (he doesnt know about the stone chapel, nor tree gandalf) You seem to have missed out the very first paragraph of what I wrote your brainrot of 'people who do weird progressive things like want rp homophobia banned must be WOKE' is so bizarre for such a usually sensible person in any case I am going to bed chaps its late

where on earth did I do that I'm of the belief that dynamism can take place without reference to real world prejudices; I've read plenty of fine stories that don't have a hint of racism nor homophobia. That isn't because they're whitewashed to be happy and fluffy - to be sure, brutal, villanous and terrible things can and should still happen - but instead, they deal with the fantastical and the medieval whilst simultaneously avoiding topics without worth. I echo your point about communication. I echo your point reporting it when it comes along, but I simply disagree about the worth these niches of RP provide in contrast to the potential damage and usual uninteresting nature of them A character of mine is currently attempting to reform the Church, but they've not in the matter of gay rights - and to be honest the Pontiff saying mid-diplomacy 'sorry I can't continue people are screaming at me on Discord' made me lose all faith in any sort of roleplay-first mindset the Church may claim to have. Blanket-banning is by no means my first instinct (and has never been, I would add) when it comes to matters akin to this

I would urge you not to dismiss the main post as a rep farm (read it please) I don't think that that the removal of irl-based racism and homophobia will result in a megacity hugbox; the current most successful and engaging form of villainy and evil is being purported by the Necros atm and the removal of homophobia/racism certainly won't stop them. I don't see why homophobia being removed would make LotC any more safe IRPly against the vast multitudes of Darkspawn nor why it would lead to a mega city? Oren isn't being held back by homophobia

I've read more than enough to know that it isn't needed. You're being foolish; it's utterly insane to argue that homophobia being banned will lead to nobles being gotten rid of because of 'classism'. Point me to the crowd of people advocating for anything you just mentioned and tell me with a straight face its likely to happen

the key difference between banning homphobia and banning the above is that you are probably the first person to even think of the above. there is virtually zero chance of any of the above being banned nor policed because they are key themes of fantasy narratives; homophobia definitively is not

orc brain (do another one)

If you'd like to pursue such a thing then I wish you good luck

I cant tell if ur baiting or not but a cult centred around legalising gay marriage in the church is not interesting rp. heres a cat photo just in case you are baiting

I assure you I wrote this myself

I would note that you have not explained why it's a good thing to have this speaks to OOC; the rule change I would desire is one that includes IRP, and the reasons and principles for such are detailed in the main post that I must once again ask you take the time to read and respond to not being homophobic is not the same thing as having the same politics as burger king truth be told, I was under the impression that not being homophobic was a fairly bipartisan viewpoint; indeed, pope francis has come out in favour of ending anti-gay laws and permitting non-straight individuals into the catholic church (the community which I assume you speak of) I have yet to see an interesting story generated by homophobia; I've yet to speak to a single person who's seen an interesting story generated by homophobia. I'd ask you not to equate my post to moral hysteria; the post itself is not hysterical in nature and I'd urge you to read it with an open mind rather than one viewing what I write through the lens of the modern culture wars

I have already stated that I don't believe everyone who disagrees with me is homophobic, and I don't believe prima said anything along the lines of 'everyone who disagrees with me is homophobic' either

orc brain truth be told if homophobia was banned currently and someone said 'should we unban it' everyone would go 'obviously not' so idk the onus is on you for explaining why in the face of what I've said it should remain, instead of just devolving to insults you're right I don't like homophobia