Sebasgann

Well I did say that the slow and nausea were cosmetics, I don't really like nausea but thinking about it you're only experiencing a nausea for 5 seconds, maybe 5 seconds is too slow, or maybe nausea isn't necessary at all. The minimum would be as exactly as you suggested along with the combat debuffs. Because a little message isn't going to encourage a player not to return to battle. But, once you reduce it to so little it is waved along and ignored by the admins/developers.

Still, I think a message of the sort should be mentioned after death, and a temporary blindness would be very nice, I still think spawning in with 4 health and hunger would be a good way to encourage RP between monks and players, or encourage players to stay at the monastery. Letting them rest for HP, then giving them free food and some kind of equipment to be safe on the road. Other wise players can go onto the road with nothing at all with reduced hunger, health, and no equipment. I still think that subject would have to be thought over but it seems as though there's little else we can do on this topic.

Hence why I said it would make it easier to notice, but not insta ban on sight. If people can account that he wasn't in fact there and was elsewhere then they aren't banned. Or if they're an elf and this war is clearly between dwarves and orcs, why would the elf be banned? or even suspected at all?

But yes, if nothing I think a better set of timers for the debuffs would be 

• Blindness: 5 sec
• Nausea: 10 sec
• Slowness I: 20 sec
• Mining Fatigue: 15 minutes
• Weakness: 30 minutes

This way it almost doesn't hinder their ability to fight PvE, but can be a great weakness in PvP. This also makes it easy to spot them.

If they weren't a part of the battle, they were still severely injured enough to be sent to the Monastery for monks attention to be healed. These effects would act as a "waking up" from your rest, and add effects based on your weakened state after being severely injured. These effects fit swiftly into RP, and the first three effects are simply cosmetic and nothing else. While the weakness and Mining Fatigue are to hinder players combat wise, hopefully encouraging them to be careful since they just 'died' in a way.

Another cool addition to encourage players to stay is by making them spawn with 4 hearts, and insisting that they use one of the beds provided so they can regenerate health. The same could be said for hunger, which would encourage RP between the monks and players, giving them both something to do. The monk can then give the player some food for their trip, and a wooden sword to offset his imbalance against PvE monstery, but not quite so against PvP, which is why they should be careful.

If you're a new player then you won't have your soul bound anywhere so it's going to take you some time to get where you want to go. Those effects will have worn off long before you get a job, or find a place to start mining/cutting/doing any kind of work.

Well then, I see where you're coming from Disco and it makes complete sense, but the blindness/nausea are still some good effects for a respawn after death, while the weakness and mining fatigue aren't really noticable, but can still have some big impacts on the players actions whether they should return to battle. Plus the particle effects are still showing, making it somewhat easy to spot someone who just died.

These aren't just a fix but an addition, like a cosmetic to death that would make it feel impactful. If I died, saw black for 4 seconds and faded into light a second later I would think that is a step up from normal respawn. Nausea makes it as if you're still not in your right mind after regaining sight, and a 20 second slow would also seem impactful in the moment, almost as a cosmetic. (these are total times, blindness 5 sec, nausea 10 sec, slow 10 sec, which means after 5 sec of blindness there's 5 sec of nausea, followed by 10 seconds of slow while the slow persisted all along.)

I think it's an interesting cosmetic to death if nothing else that would literally take like 10 minutes of coding.

After reading Hellbot's thread on his resurrection idea, Seth Calith seemed to answer the mighty question of "How do we stop players from returning to battle" with something so simple that it was sitting in the question itself hiding.

Adding debuffs to characters when they spawn they'll think twice about entering a battle field from whence they came from.

• Blindness: Creates a thick black fog around the player(5 seconds)
• Nausea: Wobbles and has distorted screen) (5 seconds)
• Slow II: Contracts FOV, Decreases walking speed by 30% (5 minutes)
• Mining Fatigue: Blocks break 20% slower (Arm swings slower) (20 minutes)
• Weakness: Decreases damage dealt with melee attacks by 0.5 damage (0.25 heart)(30 minutes)

These additions will make spawning seem much more painful, as though you were really hurt, while some of these buffs will wear off soon, some of these will stick with you for quite a while (the debuffs are listed from shortest duration to longest.) 

Blindness: Blindness will make it feel as though you just woke up from a slumber, slowly opening your eyes as you wake up and begin to see. The first few seconds of pure black makes it feel as though you were really hurt, and adds to the effect of just waking up after a near death experience.

Nausea: Makes it so that after being granted vision, you still can't see well, it is only natural, and getting up and walking is hard, also expected (hence why these first two don't really last lone, it's to make you feel as though what just happened was serious)

Slow II: A 30% slow for 5 minutes, with a restricted FOV makes you feel like crap, if you were to get to your destination it would take you much longer, hopefully this will encourage you to stay in the monastery and rest (which would require that the monks have some kind of standard procedure upon handling death by giving the player something of interest to encourage them to stay, such as food and a wooden sword to compensate against PvE monsters.) This would almost make it seem worthless to get to where the player needs to get to, and if the player were to get there, they would be far too out of shape to even think about fighting without dieing once more, or making it obvious they just died. The reduced FOV will also reduce the players cognitive function, or amount of information they're allowed to take in since they can't see as much, which would also harm their ability to fight in a large scale battle.

Mining Fatigue: This would reduce the players combat skills by a lot when fighting, and will obviously decide who would win in a battle between someone who isn't hurt, and the other who is. This will discourage players into entering any kind of PVP scenario given their weakened state.

Weakness: Weakness makes the target susceptible to more damage, which can hurt at bit in a battle, the extra damage does tend to stack up, and will discourage the player from attempting to engage in any kind of PvAnything. Why 30 minutes? Well 30 minutes is when you regain your memory, so it seems fit you would also regain your physical condition as well.

Although these hinder the players ability to fight, it shouldn't hinder their ability to take on simple spiders, zombies and other animals. But the debuffs will make it clear that a player has returned from death to a battlefield by the amount of particles flying above their head. This also adds to the RP of death and makes it feel more significant, while making it seem more fun all together.

So what do you guys think? Should debuffs be added to players on death to discourage them from participating in battles, and make it easier for them to be spotted after dieing? Would the encourage RP at a monastery NOT benefit the server (the answer is yes)?

I said earlier that I didn't have a stand, but rather a few things that would make the addition better if it were implemented, but after thinking about it and what this thread seemed to originally accomplish, I seem to go against what is now being suggested. Honestly, I think the mass debuffs upon spawning would heavily affect someones decision on returning to the battle field. Slow II would make them get there slowly, obviously add particles which is a giant red flag waving above their head, along with weakened combat stats like weakness and miners fatigue (takes more damage, and attacks slower). This also adds to someones injury which goes hand in hand with just being revived from a near death experience.

P.S. when I suggested that the wandering soul plugin should make WS players be transperant, I still think it's an amazing addition to the WS plugin :) Which will be available in 1.8, making it super easy to code then (even though it's possible now).

It seems a bit too much, a bunch of debuffs upon respawning seems much better (weaken, exhausted, slow or what ever they are called) to show that you are just rezzed by the monks and needs some rest.

I think this would make it painstakingly obvious and would prevent players from entering battle if they had a Slow II, Weakened, and Miners Fatigue, why would anyone? The particles would also make it painstakingly obvious and 100x more likely to be banned since it's so noticeable. Why haven't we thought of this before? This alone would probably fix returning to battle all together! This needs to be implemented!

Well a lot of these are pretty good rules to add

• Do not allow upward facing lava traps (dispensers on the ground)
• Do not allow 'oil' traps from above which flow indefinitely during battles, a gm should use a bucket to simulate the trap running out of oil after about 20 seconds or whatever (10 seconds will be long since it takes forever for the lava to disappear)
• Do not allow excessive amounts of buttons to be placed on walls to prevent laddering up.

These rules, seem logical and are things that should almost be a no brainer for adding to the rules, but when it comes to the others there are exceptions

1. I don't mind ankle biters. I think they're clever, and a good blend of MC mechanics and real strategy, but this can be easily abused.
2. "Do not allow instantly retractable floors/falling traps" Retractable floors and falling traps are nice, unexpected and one of the stereotypical thoughts that come to mind when you hear, 'Trap!'. But this as well can easily be abused. Making the fall distance be some 40 blocks deep. I feel like retractable floors should only be allowed if there is a way back up, unless it was painstakingly obvious, so that players should have avoided the falling altogether. I would like to see a retractable door that at leads into a jail cell at the very least, or into some kind of dungeon/prison like Matt suggested, it would add RP, and should be a big enough advantage to the defenders by separating the offensive force. If the defending force has to rely on anything more than besides dividing the enemy force then there's something wrong (unless the numbers are horribly out of their favor)

Kalen I do have something to propose though, since you state that players should RP things, GM's will not be there 100% of the time during a raid, and thus some of these RP options aren't viable. Every fort has to be possible of taking over, within the means of MC mechanics, without aid from a GM and without breaking blocks. That's why I proposed a GM always do a sweep of forts to see if they can be taken, or to see if there are any unnecessary traps so the GM can tell them not to use them, or what their limitations are.  That would have been the case if there were a GM online, if not every fort SHOULD have the possibility of being taken over using mechanics.

I'm surprised the staff isn't taking a closer look at this and supporting this, this is obviously the opposite of RP, by abusing mcmechanics, avoiding realism and making things frustrating. Some of these are gimies, and some of these should have restrictions put on them.

((#DwarvesOP))

Brb making a dwarf.

Of course it does, but who says bad isn't good, sometimes more bad is good for the server. Because being on the winning side isn't the defenition of RP, RP is RP, and making more posibilites is always better, even if it makes the playerbase meh.

If you were to die, and IF the monk ( // 

The only worthwhile things to look at in order of most practical/useful ideas to implement based off threads made in the last few days. But as I said earlier, even with a list of all the things admins/developers should be looking for, they won't look. actually, they'll look, and do little to nothing, not even say "we aren't going to implement that" so that our ideas are unanswered, making us feel like we can continue to fight for our suggestions because it hasn't been brought to their attention.

P.S. Not to say my money suggestion is amazing, but in terms of how in deaph and realistic it is of being implemented it's ranked 4, now that I would even implement it because 90% of the staff would have to agree to it. Ideas are still ideas.

uh-uh, you could make the currency gold nuggets, which would encourage banks and hidden stache in peoples house for robbers. you can easily code the shops to take a certain amount of golden nuggets from your inventory for the item. You can also make it so that a number of gold nuggets are transfered to your inventory upon donating.

This would also add natural inflation to the economy by making gold useful. Bam. This would encourage players not to go walking around with their money and create a sense of caution. In order to make it so that players don't naturally mine gold and say "lookie I haz money" you'd have to get the nuggets named which can only be done at some kind of mint building that is responsible for turning golden nuggets, into actual nation minted money. Making it so that players have to bring their gold to be minted for a price.

Buuuuuut this ain't gonna happen because only .01% of what players suggest are actually implemented. Mostly because they're dumb ideas, but this is a good idea, yet still not going to be implemented because it doesn't fix anything, simply makes it different and expands possibilty of RP in numerous ways, which sooooo isn't worth over the system we have right now.

Well it would be an interesting addition, but perhaps, don't fix anything that isn't broken? still a good thought though, but it makes things tedious for no reason.

Well, a player monk could be a useful addition on a battlefield and might encourage more RP, while off the battle field they also have some kind of reason to do religious things, and can encourage more church/exc. kind of stuff.

These monks can also use the Nexus-Magic plugin to heal people and can act as any trinity healer, in addition to being a monk who can provide some more RP. You can make it so that that any NPC with a priest skin can resurrect players. Personal Monks can also be an additional Donator Perk for higher tier donators who own a plot, and can have a personal monk resurrect them free of charge (maybe, weird idea) who would be stationed somewhere on their plot.

The more I think of player monks the more I like it, these monks could also learn the stereotypical spells any cleric/monk would know, cure (cure target of any debuffs), heal (heal target for 4 health [ 2 hearts ]), protect (grant target temporary 4 health [2 hearts]), exc. who can fulfill a combat, RP and resurrection purpose.

So in soul form, there is a way in minecraft where someones skin can be transperant, almost ghostlike, if the coders can find the source code or find out how to do that, that would be the ideal form all wondering souls should possess. That could help improve the whole wondering soul system altogether by actually seeing them, but knowing they aren't supposed to be seen.

Another cost to the player in addition to perhaps a 24 hour/ 7 day cooldown (I have litterally no idea) is a mina cost and a temp. debuff so that players return to the battle hindered in some way, while also putting a hole in their pocket, that way players think twice of resurecting and when it's worthwhile to do so or not.

It's not as straight forward but I don't really know systematically how it would work. In my mind when I was reading this, this is how my mind played it out:

• Your character dies, their head is left behind with a lock on your head for maybe 2-5 minutes and when you press "Respawn" you appear over your dead body in this transparent form, from there you will have to run to the nearest monk and begin this resurrection process. Once resurrected, you either appear where you once died with some kind of debuff (or not) and 500-1000 less mina than you did before you died

It seems like a good idea, I don't agree with it or disagree with it, I would leave that to other people to decide since my head isn't very clear on the subject matter, but these are some ideas if it were to be implemented.

I feel like this thread post and mine are pretty similar, some of the only differences being you still want resources to be in the wilds to allow players to mine as they please (given there are reduced ores in the wilds) where as I say remove them completely so players only reason for venturing in the wilds isn't just to mine a fortune, but compensate it with smaller general mines (with reduced resources as well) where there's at least a central RP hub for people who don't mine in Nation Mines, that way they're not scattered across the map mining, but are mining in one little world instead together, at least making RP possible (instead of secluding themselves entirely).

But yeah, either plan for the public works, but I'd prefer the mining worlds simply because it can centralize RP more so if there are only a few locations where you can mine, while also making sure players adhere to the server rules regarding mining. This way new players who come, can mine their fortune IN ONE OF THE GENERAL MINES, while also learning the server rules for mining (and just monitoring others so they follow them too), while creating a small RP hub for miners.

Overall, I feel like we kind of hit the nail on what mining should look like in 4.0, because what I would hate to see is open world mining for all with no specific mining areas with no source of control by and kind of foreman or city/nation.

I for one will agree once more to this and restate why. Why? Because the new way of fort building abuses mcmechanics by making it impossible to siege, makes the game unfair and adds new definition to powergaming by abusing these mechanics. There should be a limit on traps, for example, overflowing lava that ceases to end. I never knew that burning oil could flow indefinitely without ever running out (sarcasm). I think it would be nice, actually acustom the RP of pouring burning oil making it so that you activate the lava, let it flow for 10 seconds, then turn it off and then you can't use it anymore. The lava will stay on the ground for quite some time, and is pretty realistic. It just means you'll have to use it when they bring the battering ram and not at the start to end of a battle. There are a few important rules that the original author stated that can help fix some of the issues regarding unfair advantages in raids/sieges exc.

Bucky_24 go home, you're drunk, stop talking so much, you haven't contributed to the original post whatsoever, instead, you've created a flamefest. Please, just stop spending your time here, you talk so much about having a life, and you just spend an hour sitting in your chair arguing over the internet. You're causing a rukus for no reason. 

Can we please get back to the origonal idea of this post. Talk about whether we agree upon the idea that the abuse of MC mechanics and OP forts are a pain in the arse, and if we agree upon the rules or not.

I feel like before a raid can take place a GM should sweep the fort for any stupid traps and tell the defenders what they can and cannot use, there were never problems with this in the past, but it's the servers fault for leaning toward a larger pvp default system which has attracted more pvp based players, for introducing and encouraging using cheap Minecraft mechanics in order to win. At this point there should be some kind of GM intervention, or addition to rules when it comes to traps and defenses because anyone can make a fort completely indestructible and impassable while abusing Minecraft mechanics. Plus there are a ton of cheap tricks that aren't realistic at all, and simply shouldn't exist.

This post has already gotten +26 in a short amount of time, compared to other posts this should be granted the attention it deserves and should be mentioned in the next Admin/GM meeting, because more and more this has gotten out of hand. The game simply isn't enjoyable anymore when you base everything around mcmechanics in your powergamy efforts to win. The attention this post has gotten demands some kind of response by the staff.

I support this 100% , traps shouldn't be abused off of their MC mechanics, but should be used to either enhance RP by making things a little more difficult, or used in such a way that isn't abusive.

Remember there will almost always be a loosing side, but one side shouldn't have to abuse mc mechanics just to be the winner, it's essentially powergaming.

+1

Yeah they're enchanting books, you can get them from fishing, and they're banned in game, that's why they keep disapearing.

Hmm, clay really isn't game changing but it's important, and since humans have little to nothing in terms of clay and diorite (when it comes out, because at launch of 4.0 it would only be clay). That would get rid of just about all of the human income derived from mining excluding sale of iron. Clay is general, which is important that it goes to humans since they're the "general" race, people should be venturing towards the humans lands more so than other places which fits nice into the grand scheme of things.

Plus mugs and use of decoration, mugs are hugely important which should be the main driving force for players to go there, but I can see where players might have to do that. Hopefully it doesn't take 30 minutes to get to the human city, since we've been telling the staff to make the distance shorter for the last 3 years, hopefully they listened :I .

What I really want is a deeper consideration towards this system by a developer, gm or admin. Either to shut me down so I don't have to ponder whether this system will ever be introduced, or at least being told "Great Idea, I'll being it up at the next staff meeting" or something. Either that, or some helpful feedback.

Either there's nothing wrong with it and it's perfectly find or people aren't commenting :I , and I tried as close I could to get it perfectly close to a final product encase the staff wanted to take it to the next level. I even have the percentages to plugin, or some roundabout percentages they can base them off :/ .

I would love pvp if it weren't so vanilla, perhaps when the nexus skills plugin comes, the combat will bring some kind of variety to the table, I just feel like everyone has to resort to iron armor and an iron sword, and there's little variety, a mage cannot fight pvp, an archer stands no chance exc. I think LotC has to make it so that pvp is balanced between the different play styles players want to play as, by either reintroducing the slow system to heavily armored targets, (one of my personal favorites ->) the quiver system to help nerf juggernaut archers (so it's easy to head shot them!), or other pvp enhancements that make it feel much more... something.

Humans

• Stone
• Coal
• Iron
• Gold
• Gravel
• Clay
• Diorite
• Water
• Diamonds

Nuh-uh, and be more productive with your posts regarding my revised version, looking for some good feedback.

By the way everyone, I just posted a revised version of my suggestion taking into account what everyone has said thus far, while clarifying things and talking a bit more about it.

in almost no way are the raw materials hindered with this process, this simply redirects who gets these materials and makes players have to spend more time to get these materials by venturing out and trading with other players, which will encourage road rp, have a sense of progression and so forth. The price if anything to enter a mine would decrease, don't forget that with this there should obviously be free open mines players can go to in order to get basic materials such as stone, coal, iron, gold and gravel, but at a reduced percentage making these resources harder to find than if you were to mine at one of the main nation mines.

Players who sought to mine can do so freely at one of the general mines containing general materials that are already found in every nation mine. At the cost that they have to put in a little more effort to get these materials, all while taking away the need for players to venture out into the wilds for the soul purpose of strip mining. This gives players a place to mine while still having mining rules be regulated so players don't abuse minecraft mechanics, while adding RP to every nation by making the mines more "fun", organized, and effective at that. One of the best benefits is what Drake has already agreed upon, that orcs can mine sand and sandstone alike, without griefing in order to get those materials. As well as the above mentioned benefits I said earlier.

Things to take away from this;

• Players who still wish to mine without the need of going to a Nation mine to pay for it, have access to a general mine at the cost of reduced percentages making materials a little hard to find. This way players can be centralized, and mine as they please while adhering to the server rules for mining, and all be together somewhere where RP can take place, instead of venturing out somewhere random and doing the complete opposite. Also note that Villains and others alike who wouldn't otherwise gain access can gain access to these mines as they're open to anyone.
• Make mining more fun by adding materials not normally found in mining, and that clearly reflect each nation. Makes your mining seem more rewarding since you're not mining something everyone else has access to, but rather you're mining something precious other players will eventually want. Or not want, perhaps mining isn't that Nations strong suit, as elves aren't known for their miners, thus they're given a few materials that keep them astray from mining, but still enough materials so that they're encouraged to mine for the sake of getting those items on the market (since no one else has them)

Keep in mind the ores, percentages and the like can be altered to fit each nations needs, but this is the general idea of what the mining system could look like. So far majority of the people who have posted have agreed to this kind of mines, while some have offered advice or their opinions. Very few have actually disregarded this, so this should place this thread somewhere on the positive side of things. I hope this thread grows because I really think this should be implemented..

P.S. I've also heard about making RP centralized which is the whole 4.0 motto, or what players have been begging, and this achieves just that, by either discouraging players to mine and pick up another profession, or still mining with all the above mentioned benefits. Also to note that the percentages aren't enough put someone off of the server, since the percentages are pretty close to vanilla, or can be altered to match vanilla.