WuHanXianShi14

You laugh now, but next I’m going to write 5000 words worth of bird people lore and convince the LT to make it playable like I did with the monkeys just to **** with all of you

1 hour ago, Narthok said:

Think the data is pretty accurate. PvPers are on lotc for PvP. RPers are on lotc for RP. and the between folks view PvP as an end to further RP goals rather than a goal in and of itself.

The line between the “RP” and “In between” communities is pretty blurred lol. “In-between” is a super vague term. And the people who said they’re part of the RP community may not have any problem with PVPing when they have to.

I mean, I armour up and PVP when my city gets raided, but I voted as part of the RP group. Meanwhile, someone else exactly like me could use that logic to say “Well I guess I PVP sometimes, so I’m in-between”

I think the only clear thing here is that ultimately the people who are only here to PVP are a small minority.

I PVP when called upon to do so, does that make me a PVPer?

"Woops, did we accidentally vassalize Haelun'or again?"

@Narthokit's stunning how you selectively implement changes to your rules to give us the illusion of "listening to feedback" while ultimately refusing to budge on the core pieces of your agenda no matter how many people speak out against it

33 minutes ago, Illuminare said:

 

I mean, do you really want to see the server die? Kinda makes me sad that folks like yourself want to destroy this server after so many years of being on it, kinda.

I do, I'd finally be free 

I can't believe after a poll where a majority of people voted for player caps you still decided to go with no player caps

9 hours ago, Narthok said:

This thread gives me brain cancer 'tier 220  / tier 65 - 75' what the **** is wrong with lotc. When did we ******* turn magic into a science that power fantasy folks could min max so their minecraft doll would be the coolest

It should be noticed that it was aesopian himself who implemented a rolls and numbers based stat system and forced us to abide by it to participate in the events, hence the emphasis on magic tiers 

I started out optimistic about this event. I liked the lore, the set up, etc. I thought it was unique. At least it wasn't another evil world eating draconic thing.

But after it became clear how railroaded the event was, how stacked September was to make sure he could never experience any meaningful losses (30 MASTER druids go to his chamber, take down his wakefulness by 50%, 1 person prays to him, immediately recovers said wakefulness???) I began to lose faith in the event and conscientiously decided to stop participating in this event line.

Now this attempted force-PK bullshit is the final nail in the coffin. I will not be participating in September Prince event lines in the future unless that feature is removed and the railroading stops.

7 hours ago, Narthok said:

 by doing **** like destroying the souls trees. its a good step forward and we need more of it. 

Fun fact, druids have been doing that actively. But I did the math, and every soul tree only takes out 0.8% of his soul integrity, a tree (given we take the RP route of destroying it) takes 2-3 hours to take down, and therefore even to take down 50% of Septemebr Prince's soul integrity would take 187 manhours.

Ignoring the fact that each group has a 3 day cooldown between taking a tree down, further exaserbating the ridiculously grindy time and effort needed to even do a tiny amount of insignificant damage to September Prince, which ultimately describes this whole event line in a nutshell.

Trying to essentially strawman dozens of people's valid complaints into "Waa waa you dont like losing" is pretty immature for someone in a position such as yourself

Lemme preface by pointing out that it is Leowarrior, your traditional antichrist and eternal nemesis to Connor saying this

My advice to you is that what people outside your playerbase says do not matter. You're under no obligation to please them. You do what you think is best for your playerbase. If that means joining a larger settlement, do it. If that means starting anew in some smaller freebuild plot, do it.

I think making this thread was a mistake, because ultimately, nothing anyone thinks outside of your group matters. Since it will be your group making a decision on what works best for them and what brings them the most enjoyment.

The high elves do indeed hold a fairly unique cultural RP niche in this server, and have for years. Their RP is quite different from the RP of other elves. It would be a shame for it to dissapear after so many years. I think you guys should do what you gotta do to ensure it survives, and ultimately how you do it is up to you, and no outside entity should dictate how you choose to do it.

43 minutes ago, Harold said:

 

Sigirath would be tending himself to the Tundrak's line of Fennic Wine from the cities brewery, within the Citadels Council chambers. He looked over as he heard his Cousin musing, Sigirath would shake his head slowly.

"Let us also not forget the countless genocides of our people at their hands...
...my father: your uncle, Cousin, lest us not forget him."

 

Artimec thinks back to those days with fond nostalgia.

Artimec lights a candle at the shrine of the Bear Mother.

Just checkin in to see if raid player caps and standardized cooldowns have been reimplemented.

No?

Aight, the struggle continues I guess

1 hour ago, Narthok said:

Blacklists are fine and good, but giving a 2 week blacklist to repeat offenders and chronic trolly raid RPers is just kicking the can further down the road instead of actually solving the problem.

My main issue with the way GMs handle those kind of players is the perpetual "Verbal warnings" and punishments than don't solve to put a permanent end to this kind of behaviour.

Look into player's history, realize if they have been punished for this kind of behaviour before, there's no point in giving them another stern warning or temporary blacklist and do what's necessary to stamp out that mentality with an actual decisive fist.

Its a good start that you're willing to hand out blacklists without much hesitation. But, you're just doing the moderation equivalent of procrastination, it wont be enough.

Still doesn't change the fact that trolly behaviour and shitty RP has nothing to do with raid caps. Which are necessary to contain raids to the scale that raids should be, ergo: not mini warclaims.

To offset a raid cap, I would remove the one hour notice to raid. That seems to be what both raiders and defenders said they prefer on this thread.

I will continue to fight your proposed rules and encourage others to do so as well until a raid cap is reimplemented.

5 minutes ago, Narthok said:

I'm not making excuses I'm telling you to send me evidence of toxicity or trolly rp and I will literally punish them the minute I see the evidence.

Sure, easy, let's see if you're good to your word. Most people involved here are repeat offenders too.

https://gyazo.com/7de1a40823bd1d9be882eab08e1804e3

https://gyazo.com/ff46371dfb2bf27ed6ddbcae0ca03c9e

https://gyazo.com/4c71b8f53edef1bc6ec710391259f9e8

Doesn't change the fact that player caps on raids have nothing to do with toxicity, and are needed to prevent raids from turning into mini-warclaims.

"OOC barriers ruin dynamic roleplay", following that logic you would have no cooldowns, no cap, and no rules. But we both know that would be a shitshow, and therefore your statement isnt true. Instead you are picking and choosing WHICH OOC barriers to implement and which not to, rather arbitrarily.

If anything, increasing the cap will increase the toxicity, because the bigger the circlejerk, the bigger the fuckery that goes on. This is why warclaims, the PVP fights on LOTC with the highest amount of people, have little to no real RP at all. Even in the rallying stage, everyone is memeing, making digs, screaming, spamming, etc.

6 minutes ago, Narthok said:

 

 

Not so long ago, the orcs of fort stronk captured a druid student of mine. I rallied up a force of elves to go rescue her.

When we got there, we learned fort stronk was on cooldown, and rescue raids were only for "High ranking officials", so I had to send my rescue party home, and was OOC blocked from attempting to rescue my student.

were we royally fucked by the rules? Yes. Did we choose to be toxic, lash out, or attack anyone OOCly? No.

There is absolutely no excuse for being a shitty person OOCly and doing pisspoor RP. No matter what the rules are. Your behaviour is on YOU, and YOU need to be held accountable for it. As a GM, you should not be making excuses for toxic behaviour, period. Even if you were, the raid cap is certainly not the issue here, but the "PVP goon" culture in general.

Most people who enjoy PVP dont behave like spastics. Its the culture of OOC circlejerks. People who go on raids make shitty OOC remarks, trolly RP, put minimal effort into their emotes because they know that's what irritates their opponents, pisses them off and degrades them, and at the end of the day, denegrating your enemy while laughing about it in Voice Chat with your buddies is the main goal and that can be done with 10, 20 or 30 people. that is the main culprit of toxicity during your generic bandit-led raids, and not the player cap (which by the way, even common raiders on this thread have been asking you not to abolish).

Would love to see how you came to that conclusion, other than just your own opinion, of course.

1 minute ago, Narthok said:

Wars are built upon raids and capped raids are in my eyes the root upon which current raid toxicity and memery can be drawn from. In my data collection people expressed dissatisfaction with the current state of raids and expanded upon this with specific complaints. I have tried to amend these issues as best I can. You are once again depicting your position hyperbolically.

And you're once again making vague references to undisclosed "Stats" as if it legitimizes anything you say. If you want people to take it seriously then show us your data collection, and your collection methods.

Most people on this server are chronic complainers. They complained about these rules when prompted, and they'll complain and ***** about yours on the off chance they're actually implemented. The main problem with this server is there is no consistency, we feel the need to overhaul and change **** every 2 months because someone and their friends gets loud enough, and some new up-and-coming tryhard GM decides that catering to whoever is shouting at the time is the best way to make himself look "Active", or "taking initiative". And any work he does is undone within the next few months because the cycle repeats.

The rules are they are now are functionally fine, and the raid cap isnt what breeds toxicity, its the people themselves. Because if people are doing shitty RP, acting shittily OOCly, then you dont baby them by saying 'its just because of the rules'. No rule forces you to act like a spastic. Everyone is expected to remain civil, or if not civil, at the very least not actively breaking rules or insulting individuals. Hold players accountable for player behaviour, not the rules. Otherwise that's a pretty terrible attitude for a GM to have.

12 hours ago, Narthok said:

I understand your love of the status quo but a ruleset cannot cater exclusively to one side of the ideological divide on lotc.

Except both regular defenders and career pvp raiders are speaking out against these rules and both  sides have asked you to keep them the same?

Quote

I feel that this ruleset gives defenders very nice incentives to actively rally and defend against a raid rather than being raided every 5 days and having the activity of your entire city wiped. 

 

Being raided every 5 days has not wiped our activity at all. I would say that its currently a very managable system. I dont think enough people were complaining that it warranted change, an this whole thing seems more like your pet project than a genuine server need.

8 hours ago, Narthok said:

tbf the most criticism is coming from elf players. Clearly they don't feel that the rules cater to them.

Yeah, we're a hivemind and all think the same, and since everyone who disagrees with you plays the same mineman race (They dont, by the way) in one playerbase (actually, people from at least 5+ playerbases have spoken out) their opinions should be considered just one single entity instead of a collection of individuals

@Narthok how many people need to tell you to reimplement a cap on raiders before you do it?

Not surprised at the orc players who'd try to shoot down anyone who associates with the Dominion, y'all should get a life, tbh

I think Pun would be a great GM, but I also think being a GM on this server is a complete scam. Its basically a shitty customer service job where any meaningful decisions are out of your hands and in the admins, you deal with the worst clients imaginable, and you dont get paid. Its not worth it, apply those leadership skills somewhere meaningful !!

But if you DO go through with this you'd do a good job

Just now, Narthok said:

Yeah its real easy to change nothing and achieve nothing I suppose. As for empirical proof we gathered 96 responses regarding their thoughts on raids and feedback indicated that there was large dissatisfaction with the state of raiding. 

You actually have numerical, statistical or quantitative proof of that or did you just cherry pick individual responses on an open thread through your bias eyes? Because I seem to recall a ton of comments on that thread telling you to keep the raid rules as they are.

2 minutes ago, Narthok said:

The status quo of raids is unacceptable and the removal of ooc barriers and enabling dynamism is desirable.

You got empirical proof of that or is that just your opinion, one youre using your status to try and force through onto the whole server?

Wolfkite's rules post is a lot closer to the current rules, and seems to have a lot more unanimous support and far less opposition than your proposed thread.

6 hours ago, Aeldrin said:

Please just keep raids as they are. They're currently fine. These rules call for over-regulation from the GM Team and nobody wants that. One hour announcements, unlimited caps, and use of battering rams just make them miniature warclaims.

I would like to point out that when I agree with ww2buff about something as fundamental as this (albeit probably for different reasons) its probably a good sign that this whole thing is genuinely a bad idea