Adran

First, only the people who are interested in this kinda thing and the friends of the people proposing the idea would actually bother to comment. Now, you raise an important point here in that, yes, there would be some people who don't know what they're talking about who would comment. There are still ways to keep it open with that in mind. We could, for instance, have anyone able to post their thoughts on a thread, but only a few people would make the final decision (I don't know if that's what you already had in mind). But I definitely think that everyone should at least be able to have a say. Science is different from lore in that anyone could be qualified to know about it regardless of position on the server, and therefore with a wide player base, we would have access to more information in order to make a more qualified decision. I am sure that we can eventually agree on a method by which many people can have a say, even if it takes some trial and error. Of course, this may all be a moot point since the whole idea may get rejected anyway. Also, cliques forming is not a given. You simply need to find the right group of people, which may admittedly be difficult. I'd also like to add that scientific developments can provide for more interesting rp than just the science itself. There could, for example, be conflict between certain religions and technologies, as happened in our world. There could also be events where, say, some tinker unveils his latest contraption and it all goes horribly wrong, with explosions and the like. You can also combine science with magic, for example, a hydromancer can power a steam thing by actually summoning steam, thereby converting magical energy into mechanical.

Answer: Why should the Science Team not consist of the entire community? If the clique is everybody, then there is no clique. Some form of a general poll could be used to decide if an idea is acceptable. Alternatively, there could be some sort of rotation system, in which anyone who wants to can serve a term on the science team, but then they would have to step down to let others review in their place. That would inhibit the formation of cliques. However, if there were to be an exclusive Science Team, I still call dibs.

Yes, my point exactly. But there doesn't have to be a Science Team to decide if it's accurate, or at least not ONLY a Science Team. Anyone should be able to do peer review. Although if there is a science team I have dibs on a spot.

Why a science team? What if anyone can post about it? Science is not like magic in that anyone, even if they know nothing about LotC, has equal footing and opportunity. Also, it's worth a try, even if it does fail miserably. Also, Hai Master Lark.

I, for one, really like this idea. Science and scientific advancement has always been an important part of society. Therefore, it has by definition RP potential...if used correctly. But I would like to hear more about the specifics. Can you compile a short list of specific technologies you think it would be reasonable for characters to invent, with explanations for each one? That way, the Lore Team (and the rest of us) can understand better what would be the results of implementing this idea). For example (I'm not saying that this specific idea is a good one; it's just a format that you could use to explain specific ideas): The sextant: The sextant was an instrument used in the Medieval/Renaissance era to measure angles. Using measurements of the altitudes of various stars, explorers could figure out with reasonable precision their latitude. Uses in-game: This can be used as a way to justify checking your z coordinate in the f3 window, at least at night, when you can see the stars. Why it's reasonable: This is reasonable because it is firmly grounded in reality and is based upon relatively simple principles of mathematics and geography. It is entirely believable that this could have been invented by characters in the LotC universe.

Possibly. But I'm going to give a try before I do that. BrandNewKitten is right here. In real life, humans cannot freeze and unfreeze the same way frogs can. However, Hosper's example shows the theory that cells can be frozen and unfrozen and still survive. The larger-picture organ stuff is where the clerics need to help a little with revival. Thank you again to everyone who has submitted input about this idea. I've taken everything that has been said so far into serious consideration, and here is my conclusion: This idea is acceptable in terms of adhering to the guidelines of lore (in my opinion). Moreover, it doesn't harm roleplay in any serious way. However, it seems to be rather unpopular. This is understandable, as it is by no means a necessary addition to LotC. Moreover, I see increasingly that snow elves and absolutely anything associated with them is not held in high regard. Thus, I'm beginning to doubt that, even if it is accepted, it's all worth it. You have brought up some important criticisms. So, I think that it's time to wrap this up. I'd like to sum up here the arguments for and against this idea. For: 1. Provides a new way to practice medicine, giving a doctor an additional tool or a mage a secondary skill. 2. Gives unique roleplay to anyone involved. 3. Gives the snow elves a little boost with lore and cultural flavor. (The implications here are more important than the statements. For example, the fact that they came up with it through trial and error but also science demonstrates the value they assign to intellect and science, even if it's not clear at first what the practical applications are. The fact that nobody else has yet found out about it shows how isolated they can be. Etc. It's open to interpretation, of course. Moreover, if this is accepted, I can definitely expand the lore to at least give it some detail, which the snow elves sorely lack.) 4. Come on. You know the name sounds cool. 5. Up to a certain point, it is realistic. 6. It's interesting (at least, I think it is). Against: 1. Provides a new way to practice medicine, which is annoying to clerics. 2. Gives unique roleplay to everyone involved, which can be interpreted as too "special snowflake." (Just curious, but does the origin of that phrase have anything to do with snow elves?) 3. Gives the snow elves a little boost with lore and cultural flavor, which is bad because everyone hates snelves. 4. God, what a stupid name (sorry BrandNewKitten). 5. There are points where the bounds of realistic science are stretched. 6. It's not necessary, it's boring, and it's stupid. I am also going to post that summary on the main post. Tell me if there's anything I neglected to mention there. I appreciate everything said so far; the support has encouraged me to keep working; the criticisms to keep working and tinkering with the idea even after I thought I was done. I think that, unless there is anything else that needs to be said, this is ready for the Lore Team to review.

1. Sorry, but...it's not for a nation, it's not for the snow elves...the only way it relates to snow elves is that they invented it. 1. It is unrealistic. You're right. But there is a lot about it that is accurate, and there's nothing more I can do about the rest except wait for the Lore Team. 2. Thanks. I didn't know that. I was somewhat confused because I've received replies from people telling me that biology in LotC doesn't work like the real-life version. 3. Yup, that's part of the fun. 4. Meh. I feel like...if you have a person doing conventional resuscitation while a cleric fixes things that he actually can, we can increase that percentage. Of course, it can't be perfect. But it doesn't have to be impossible. 5. Hm...hadn't actually realized that; thank you for telling me. However, since, as you say, resuscitation can be performed, I see no reason why it can't be supported by a cleric (for example, the cleric could prevent the organs from malfunctioning after they begin to work. 6. Yup. 7. Yup. 8. Yup. You misunderstand me again. I was asking in terms of lore, not game mechanics. The monks revive people nearly all the time for characters who are played by real people...except not always, and not for everyone else. Why? 9. Again, it depends on your definition of "dead." It's all about perspective here. 10. Um...this is obvious. The major processes in the body stop (the heart stops pumping, the spleen stops filtering blood, the stomach stops digesting food), but down inside the cells, they're just moving reeeeeeaaaaallllyy ssssllllooooowwwwwllllyyyyyyy. Unless they're frozen solid, which is bad. 1. Well, we're talking about extracurricular here. Cell damage is a given. That's why it only works for short periods of time. 2. Not...quite. There's a thing called heart failure. The heart stops, several major parts of the brain begin to shut down, but the patient is still alive. In this scenario, the patient is not completely "brain-dead." Brain death only really occurs when the brain has stopped functioning and the individual cells have shut down. But we're not letting them shut down. Just stopping for a while. 3. Hm...we'll let the Lore Team decide that. But that's just the generalized version of it. 1. Stop trying to associate me with the rest of the snow elves. I am not in any way affiliated with them nor am I responsible for their past actions. 2. You try developing a culture when your people are divided, have almost no official lore, and are universally reviled. Summary: In short, no. This is not perfect. I never said it was (actually, I might have, but if so, then I rescind that now). There are parts of it that don't entirely hold up under real-world scrutiny. But...real-world scrutiny? In a world where bathing in a pool of strange liquid dramatically changes your DNA in a way that completely changes your appearance but is not harmful at all? In a world where the undead, whose bodies have stopped functioning...still function? In a world where willing suspension of disbelief is a prerequisite? Up to the Lore Team.

1. (I'm making this extra big because it's extra important) Well...this is the part on which, as I said, I'm kinda vague and uncertain. One of the main parts of cryogenics that damages the cells most is when the patient is frozen really quickly. I feel like, with medicinal magic and a slow freezing process, you can...with a little leap of faith (because I don't even know if LotC races have cells or not) and a little creativity sort of justify it not irreparably damaging the cells. I do, however, agree that the process should cause some damage to the cells. That could cause a number of outcomes, including weakness, memory loss, or even death. However, I will restate that none of the other magics makes biological sense either. For example, "What part of the brain is used to summon matter from the void? How does it work?" LotC and really all fantasy and science fiction universes require what is called a willing suspension of disbelief; that is to say, if there are some plot points that are a little fuzzy...that's okay. I could go on to point out a number of things about LotC that make even less sense, such as "Why do some people die forever when the monks are able to resurrect anyone?" But there's no point. As long as it's fun to roleplay, there's nothing wrong. (By the way, even if you do have some answer for the question about the monks, there will be some awfully strange statistics to explain. Many people will die on their first death, yet some will die hundreds of times without actually dying.) 2. Not actually true; there are some strange people who decide, when they have a terminal illness, that they want to go into cryogenic storage immediately. 3. Yup. That would be true if we lived in a world where cryogenic revival was not possible. That's the difference between our world and LotC that I'm trying to establish. They wouldn't be called clinically dead anymore. Just...resting. But that's a pedantic and not very relevant point anyway. 4. So, this is the entire point of cryogenics. An ordinary person who dies, say, from blood loss, will have his cells die off one by one until one or more of his vital organs stops functioning. The goal here is that, by changing the temperature, we slow down all body processes dramatically. This means that cells don't die immediately because they simply can't do anything. And yes, I was implying that the heart stops, which, as I said, would cause blood flow to stop to the other organs. But they don't need it. They can't do anything. And that includes dying. Note, when I say they can't do it, what I really mean is that they can only do it really slowly, which is one of the many reasons this process has a time limit. 5. That's why you need outside medical help. Since realistic technology is unable to revive cryopatients, let's try unrealistic technology: clerics, for instance. Or alchemists. 6. See, the patient is only dead for some definitions of the word dead. And besides, since people can perma-die...clearly, the monks are imperfect. It seems reasonable to assume that a less dead body is easier to restore than no body at all. Either I'm right about that, or someone needs to explain to all those people who roleplay monks not being perfect or taking bodies back to the Cloud Temple that they're all wrong. Because I've sure as hell gotten yelled at for roleplaying that the monks even revived me once. I mean, why else would I wake up in Cloud Temple with nothing and no memory of recent events? Also, it seems reasonable to assume that since clerics have magical all-healing light, they can perform operations as simple as making a heart start beating, something that can be done without magic anyway. I understand that if people don't want their characters to die, they won't die. But the same goes for clerics. RP is RP, even if it doesn't affect game mechanics. 7. Well. We in LotC are not less technologically advanced; we're differently technologically advanced. Magic is a wonderful technology and is far more powerful than any modern-day technology except possibly the nuclear ones and the internet. 8. I understand that, and I'm totally willing to talk to people who think that this could be improved or have questions to ask about it. Thank you for your input. Summary: (Extra big again, extra important again, for the 90% of you who won't actually read anything else I've written so far) This idea is mostly accurate by real world standards, and moreover, you...can't attack this for being unrealistic by real world standards anyway. LotC is separated from the real world not just by technology but by imagination.

1. That's the beauty of it: it's not at all exclusive. Anyone at all can learn it, and nobody knows it yet on the server. It allows for cultural diffusion and interaction. 2. What do you mean by "juts?" It doesn't interfere with anyone else's magic. In fact, you could say the same for the medicinal magic off of which this is partially based, and that seems to have been accepted just fine. 1. The patient can still do that, and, as I explained, there are plenty of situations in which the patient does not have to be unconscious anyway. 2. I also described complicaitons that can ensue, such as a blood vessel bursting, a limb turning blue, or even the ice getting through the mage's defenses and entering parts of the body it shouldn't. Moreover, the patient can often be conscious and able to talk and react. Oh, come to think of it, another application of this could be to numb a patient before surgery to reduce pain, but that wouldn't really facilitate rp, so I'm not going to go into that more. 3. I will restate. Had you actually read the lore, you would have noticed that it takes even an experienced mage thirty seconds to form a basic cryolayer, and that's not always enough anyway. Also, any science fiction story that has instantaneous freezing is either plain wrong or has some sort of ridiculous technology, because freezing the body that quickly would cause basically all the cells to burst. 4. I will work on providing a good example like the ones Jade used in her healing emotes guides. Good idea. 5. So, this is where the departure from reality really occurs. Up until the point where we need medicinal magic, this is based firmly in science. The addition of medicinal magic is the one tricky part of this lore and requires the biggest suspension of disbelief on the part of the reader. Basically, my idea is to combine various ideas expressed by Jade in such a way that it almost makes sense. The issue here is that cryonic theory is not really complete in real life, so we can't be exactly certain how to make it work here either. It requires faith and creativity to make it seem feasible. The arcane shielding, for instance, could be used for big things (major blood vessels, things like that). It's up to the practitioner to determine how to use medicinal magic best. Also, the snow elf mages weren't entirely clear on what they were doing when they started to invent this. They just tried different things until it began to sort of work. You are entirely right. This is the one part of iatrocryomancy with which I am not happy, and there's just no way to make it perfect. But LotC is a fantasy world. No other magic makes real biological sense anyway. (What part of the brain is used for summoning stuff from the void? If someone's head gets blown up, how do the monks restore it intact with almost all of its knowledge and memories? How do clerics even work--magic light just heals stuff?) 6. Yup. Magic lore is necessary in order to practice magic. But few magic types are really necessary at all. Frost witches? Not necessary, but interesting. Contract magic? So obscure that it doesn't really impact that many people, not necessary. But interesting. Soul puppetry? Not necessary. Interesting nonetheless. This is analogous. 7. So does medicinal magic. But that was accepted. 1. That's where the medicinal magic comes in. Also, the ice does not necessarily destroy the cells, since it doesn't need to be placed everywhere. Just in enough places to spread the cold far enough. For instance, using only a little very cold ice can allow for the same absorption of heat. 2. The vital organs are supposed to shut down or at least slow dramatically. And no, it won't. The purpose of cryonics isn't to keep the body functioning properly. It's to stop the problems that arise from when the body isn't functioning. Very little can happen to anything in the body if the cold is distributed correctly. And yes, the organs shutting down is a serious problem. But not immediately life-threatening. For instance, if the heart stops, blood stops flowing. But since everything else in the body is moving so slowly, it won't need blood for a while anyway. And that's where the advanced medicine comes in. To revive a patient, you need to make the organs all start functioning more or less simultaneously. That's not going to be easy, and that's one of the things this magic is used for. 3. So, once again, had you actually read through the thread, you would have noticed that a. This is not just ice magic, it also adds other stuff, and b. it's...still not just for snow elves. 4. Yup. That's the point. A perfect form of healing is actually kind of boring. That's why healing rp is not always fun when someone just "pours healing light from their hands that fixes literally everything." Healing that causes problems, on the other hand, has real rp potential. Thank you for responding, everyone, and I hope that I addressed the issues to which you referred with sufficient clarity.

1. Somewhat ironically, your response serves only to prove my point. I asked for people to read through the thread before commenting on it. Had you done so, you'd notice that my response was to a person who had actually said nothing but instead bumped a quote to which I had already responded with no added information whatsoever. If people have legitimate reasons to criticize my idea, I am happy to debate and compromise with them. If the Lore Team decides that this idea won't work, I understand. But I won't have people just bothering me for no reason while I'm trying to write. So read the thread. I know now how Jade feels when she has to tell people over and over that snow elves are a culture, not a race. 2. Possibly...but it's actually not all that powerful...it doesn't work in every situation. If someone's head is blown off, then no iatrocryomancer can do anything for him. Secondly, slowing down death is something that you can do mundanely, but this just tackles the problem directly. It's a somewhat objective distinction, so it's kinda up to the Lore Team. 1. Sorry, but if you have any questions about the way I responded to that response, then quote me and make specific numbered points like I'm doing, or find some other way to organize it. 2. Yes, I do. 3. I already talked about this twice. If you think that that is grounds enough to stop this from passing, then tell clerics and surgeons that they are not allowed to practice, especially on unconscious patients. This has the potential to be just as interactive as any other kind of medical roleplay, at least the locally applied version, which should be the most commonly used one anyway, and maybe even the general version if you're creative. I'm still looking for that great medical roleplay thread that I saw; I'll try to post it as soon as I can. ((Edit: I finally found it here! Of course it was by Jade. I should have known. Thank you for all your amazing guides, Jade. They've been a lot of help!)) 4. Why not? Every little bit helps. 5. It's a lot easier to develop a culture when you have lore-based stuff off of which to build. Unlike other cultures, we really don't have anything official and I simply wish to see a basic cultural backstory. Moreover, since we are a divided people, we have no way to form a coherent culture. Thus, taking with us fragments of a past culture allows for us to roleplay cultural diffusion, cultural clashes, cultural evolution, etc. 6. I unfortunately know little about religious magic, having spent most of my time looking at the void stuff. However, if the Lore Team sees fit to replace the void idea with Wyvurn, then so be it. 7. You misunderstand. The type of post you are making is just that for which I am looking. I want posts with valuable feedback, criticisms, and questions. That allows me to develop my idea further. What I wanted to stop was the type of post made in the quote that I showed you. Quoting a post to which I have already responded does no good to anyone unless you explain what it is you want to discuss. That type of post just comes across (at least to me) as hostile and obnoxious. But thank you for fixing that. I'm trying to keep an open mind here. Forgive me for snapping, but I'm only I'm only working on a project that is trying to make something fun and harmless and I've gotten enough responses saying "Shut up, everyone hates snelves" or the like.

Do you have anything useful to contribute? Otherwise, please just don't say anything at all because I've already addressed that comment, and I'd like to keep this thread streamlined so that people who want to read it actually do instead of tldring it. If you want to provide useful feedback or ask questions that haven't already been answered, then go right ahead. I'm sorry to be so short with you, but since the snow elves are a culture, not a race, then damnit I'm going to give them a culture and I won't have it filibustered.

1. Cryonics doesn't work. That's the point. Also...if you had actually read my original post, you'd know that that is where the medicinal magic comes in. The medicinal magic is there to resolve or at least slow down some of the problems with ice-based cryonics. 2. It's not just for snow elves. Nobody on the server knows it and anyone can learn it. It's just that the lore that I wrote has the snow elves inventing it. It's equally easy for any person to learn regardless of race. Just make an rp pilgrimage to the Far North and bring back a book or something from which to learn. Also, note that when I wrote this, I thought Adran was the only active snow elf on the server. Moreover, this is not even healing magic. A mage who knows only iatrocryomancy can heal nothing. He can only postpone death or decay until some form of healing is done by a third party, be it a cleric, a potion, a monk, etc. 3. No. When I wrote this, I had no affiliation with any other snow elves, nor did I know any others even still existed on the server. I have just today met the other snow elves, but neither I nor Adran have any agreement of any sort with them other than that snow elf lore needs to be a thing. Also...if you had checked, you'd know I've only been on this server for a month. All I'm asking, guys, is that you look at this with an open mind. Don't go looking for ways to make this sink; think about whether it's a good idea and give constructive feedback based on that. Thank you to everyone for reading and supporting this thread.

Thank you both for your input. I appreciate that the community is actually responding to my ideas. 1. Not...actually true, as I stated already. The character can explain how the magic affects the body, from healing to side effects to crazy magico-allergic reactions (pretty sure those don't exist). This works quite similarly to when a healer is working on an unconscious patient. There is actually a great thread on this somewhere, but I don't know exactly where it is. If anyone can link it below, that would be great. 2. Yes, Medicinal Magic is what I was talking about. Yes, I know that that is also not really a magic type in and of itself, but it creates a variety of utilities that, if used creatively, could make iatrocryomancy possible. For example, knowing how to use Arcane Shielding can medicinally can be used to prevent blood vessels from bursting. Just an example, there are lots of options. Creativity is key here. Big thanks to Jade for creating that thread, which is crucial to this thread. 3. See 1. 4. I will repeat: we don't need this. That's true. Like most lore, this is not necessary. But it's also not harmful, and it has the potential to be beneficial. So why not?

1. The clerics require a certain mindset and moral stance...at least I think (don't quote me on that). 2. I honestly don't know...but since it is, as I said, not obvious that you can, I thought I'd go for it. 3. It doesn't. But...it doesn't contradict lore, it doesn't hurt anyone, it's not overpowered, and it could be interesting. 4. Er...I don't think the players on the server don't represent the entire population of Athera...otherwise it would be a very strange world. So, if the Lore Team doesn't object, then it just adds flavor...it doesn't really hurt. 5. I think you overestimate the amount of ice necessary to make this work. And it's not supposed to be easy anyway. As I said, mastery of cryomancy is a prerequisite. Good idea. Thank you; I'll try to work on that, although it won't work out quite the same as the conventional tiering system. Hm...thank you for the input. I've made some changes to try to explain possible uses of it. Also, I didn't get that reference...although cryonics is a technology that pops up in many science fiction stories. Also, I didn't know that about the monks...and i don't think that most other people do, either. I've never seen anyone else roleplay it like that. Also...on a...side note...I've noticed that...I use ellipses...a lot. Maybe...I should stop doing...that.

((Important: the rest of this topic following this post has become a Question&Answer/Debate session. We have covered, I think, the most important points, and I am going to list them at the bottom of this post. Tell me if there's anything i missed. Aside from that, I think this idea is ready for review from or at least input by the Lore Team.)) Iatrocryomancy The Mali’Fenn have a long tradition of ice evocation. After all, who would know more intimately the frozen elements of the mountains than those who live their whole lives among them? In fact, the snow elves are, according to some, the greatest of the hydromancers who specialize in ice, or cryomancers, as they are sometimes called. However, the snow elves were not content simply to master cryomancy; they had to go further, to explore, to invent. They mixed science and magic, studying the effects of cooling the body below normal temperatures. What they discovered was life-saving and life-changing. Harnessing the powers of ice evocation, they could slow down death dramatically and even preserve the recently dead in the hopes that the monks might revive them. However, they found that ice alone damaged the body in the act of preservation. Ingenious as always, they improvised with various forms of medicinal magic in order to keep the body’s tissues intact. Still...the process is not always perfect, and there are often...side effects. They gave this invaluable combination a name: Iatrocryomancy. Iatrocryomancy is not exactly a type of magic in and of itself, but more so uses cryomancy and various medical magics together in a specific combination. The goal of iatrocryomancy is generally to delay a dying person/limb’s death or a very recently dead person’s decay for as long as possible, hopefully until advanced medicine of some sort arrives. To practice iatrocryomancy, one must be a proficient cryomancer and have a basic understanding of medicinal magic, and even then it takes years to learn how to use the full potential of iatrocryomancy. Iatrocryomancy can be applied locally or generally; locally it allows the patient use of their remaining body parts but only works on one area. An iatrocryomancer works by creating ice to surround the area in question. This would ordinarily kill the patient (at least eventually), which is where the medical magic enters play. The medical magic works to prevent ice from damaging (or worse, entering) blood vessels and damaging the body unduly. While ordinarily such a process could potentially cause the cells of the body to die or even burst (do LotC creatures have cells?), an adept iatrocryomancer can control the ice formation using medical magic so as to minimize harm to the body. This is known as a cryolayer. Now, executed correctly (the magic, not the patient), iatrocryomancy will dramatically slow down a patient’s body processes (either locally or generally) or, even if the body looks “dead,” the decay of the body that would ordinarily prevent any sort of resuscitation. Unfortunately, an iatrocryomancer cannot actually heal such a patient, and once healed, cannot revive them alone. In order to revive the patient, powerful alchemy, a healer (or maybe even pyromancer?), at least two other people with rudimentary knowledge of medicinal magic, or (of course) a monk, is required. The more assistance the patient receives from these sources, the greater their chances of recovery/survival. The Education and Tiering System There is very little information about iatrocryomancy in Athera, as it is an obscure practice, although there is no limit on the number of practitioners. Unless one can find a teacher ((nobody on the server knows it yet, although Adran will learn it after he actually learns cryomancy)), one must make a pilgrimage to the Far North wherein dwell those who discovered the art ((the place doesn't actually exist, just...roleplay like you went there)). If, someday, someone can bring a tome of knowledge concerning the practice back to the South, then it will be easier to learn. Learning iatrocryomancy is no mean feat, even after the prerequisites are met, and it takes several years to become adept. Tier 1: The mage will kill any living tissue on which he practices. He (I will use the masculine pronoun throughout for simplicity's sake, but of course the mage can be of either sex) can, however, preserve dead tissue for short periods of time (say, up to five minutes) until the ice damages the tissue beyond repair. Tier 2: Same as Tier 1, except the mage can go up to ten minutes now, as he has greater control over his evocation. Tier 3: The mage can now preserve small sections of living tissue (say, a hand) for short periods of time (maybe five minutes again?). However, the mage does not yet have fine control over his skills, and will often cause unfortunate side effects, such as loss of motor control, muscle decay, involuntary twitching, etc. ((RP whatever you think would be most interesting)) The mage has increased his mastery of preserving dead tissue as well and can preserve a larger area for a longer time (this will continue to improve for all tiers). Tier 4+: The area, time, and consistency increase and the frequency and intensity of side effects decrease as the mage increases in skill. The mage will continue to improve with practice. At Tier 6+, the mage can preserve an entire body. The mage's skill can increase indefinitely, but keep in mind that he will never be perfect at preventing death or side effects, and he can only maintain the cryolayer for as long as his mana supply holds. Note that this skill can also be manipulated to work on plant matter, although the skill is very different and is not entirely transferable in terms of practice. ((Well, this is my second installment in my series of snow elven lore. As before, I will continue to edit this as new ideas come to my attention. Now for the OOC justification. The idea of iatrocryomancy came to me when I was thinking about possible medical applications of ice. The word I made up to describe it comes from the Greek prefix Iatro-, meaning healing, and Cryo-, meaning (loosely) ice. The workings of this magic are based more or less off the theory of Cryonics. Cryonics doesn’t actually work in our world yet, but the addition of magic neatly completes the job that scientists have already done. ((I’m willing to bet that you are all thinking right now that “Man, this is the most OP powergaming unrealistic idea I’ve ever seen.” But here’s why it’s not. First and foremost, all in all iatrocryomancy takes a very long time to learn and is difficult to practice (students are often taught using recently dead animals). Secondly, it’s actually…not that powerful. Even an expert cryomancer takes at least thirty seconds of deep concentration in order to produce even a rudimentary cryolayer. From that point on, the practitioner has to stay focused on the patient (although it doesn’t require as much mana as other magic because of the very small amount of material produced and because otherwise this would be the most useless thing ever, since by the time the mage had finished creating the cryolayer he’d be exhausted). ((Moreover, whatever ailed the patient has to be fixed, something that the iatrocryomancer cannot do, as he has to concentrate on maintaining the cryolayer. Then the patient has to be revived, which is possibly the hardest and most uncertain part of the whole process (as rapidly or inexpertly heating up the body could easily cause death). And it can’t work indefinitely; eventually the mage is going to tire himself out and another will have to take over or the patient dies. There is no form of “eternal life” or “auto-stopping death” here. It’s just a delay mechanism to buy time. ((How to use this magic in roleplay is up to the practitioner to decide. I know that it may not actually end up changing characters' stories, as they can choose not to pk anyway...but they can at least retain their memory this way. Also, the localized form of this can save individual parts of the body...pets...basically anything organic. It's certainly possible that full anesthesia may not be appealing to roleplay. Of course, as with any other medical roleplay, you can emote something going wrong, like a hand turning blue or a blood vessel bursting; the patient always has the final word on what happens. Moreover, after or during recovery, the patient can roleplay various side effects. I do believe this has the potential to be interesting if applied correctly. This seems to be consistent with all other lore, and this lore seems necessary since it is not obvious that it would actually work, as it fails completely in real life. I hope you at least consider this and I would really appreciate constructive feedback. Thanks for reading!)) ((Thread Summary)) ((Thank you again to everyone who has submitted input about this idea. I've taken everything that has been said so far into serious consideration, and here is my conclusion: This idea is acceptable in terms of adhering to the guidelines of lore (in my opinion). Moreover, it doesn't harm roleplay in any serious way. However, it seems to be rather unpopular. This is understandable, as it is by no means a necessary addition to LotC. Moreover, I see increasingly that snow elves and absolutely anything associated with them is not held in high regard. Thus, I'm beginning to doubt that, even if it is accepted, it's all worth it. You have brought up some important criticisms. So, I think that it's time to wrap this up. I'd like to sum up here the arguments for and against this idea. For: 1. Provides a new way to practice medicine, giving a doctor an additional tool or a mage a secondary skill. 2. Gives unique roleplay to anyone involved. 3. Gives the snow elves a little boost with lore and cultural flavor. (The implications here are more important than the statements. For example, the fact that they came up with it through trial and error but also science demonstrates the value they assign to intellect and science, even if it's not clear at first what the practical applications are. The fact that nobody else has yet found out about it shows how isolated they can be. Etc. It's open to interpretation, of course. Moreover, if this is accepted, I can definitely expand the lore to at least give it some detail, which the snow elves sorely lack.) 4. Come on. You know the name sounds cool. 5. Up to a certain point, it is realistic. 6. It's interesting (at least, I think it is). Against: 1. Provides a new way to practice medicine, which is annoying to clerics. 2. Gives unique roleplay to everyone involved, which can be interpreted as too "special snowflake." (Just curious, but does the origin of that phrase have anything to do with snow elves?) 3. Gives the snow elves a little boost with lore and cultural flavor, which is bad because everyone hates snelves. 4. God, what a stupid name (sorry BrandNewKitten). 5. There are points where the bounds of realistic science are stretched. 6. It's not necessary, it's boring, and it's stupid. Tell me if there's anything I neglected to mention there. I appreciate everything said so far; the support has encouraged me to keep working; the criticisms to keep working and tinkering with the idea even after I thought I was done. I think that, unless there is anything else that needs to be said, this is ready for the Lore Team to review.))