Ever

While it doesn't clash with our theme as much as I had originally thought, I know it will be roleplayed poorly and abused on such a wide scale that it's not worth the headache that they'll bring.

On 9/18/2016 at 5:03 PM, Ark said:

It's confusing that it's needed, there are plenty of other things that could be developed rather then waiting for this fast travel thing to be implemented. 

I think you're overestimating how difficult this will be to implement. It should be set up and ready (ready for purchases and routes to be made) within... 5 - 14 days. I don't want to set a narrow time-range as I don't want to force the coder that offered to code it up to kill himself working on it. But overall it shouldn't take long. It's not going to be like the a fabled magic system.

25 minutes ago, Ang said:

Don't break my market...

I'll fix it tomorrow I promise. I just couldn't figure out where to put it.

To make life easier you can now view all the heads in chests off to the left of the shop stall:

The format is the same for moderators so picking out and getting heads should be easier than it was on Vailor. These chests are donation chests. If one of them isn't locked, please make a modreq. Don't get punished for stealing a bunch of decoratives. 

2 minutes ago, Ark said:

If they can be punished, why not make it a simple 10-15 second thing rather then this confusing thing.

What's confusing about it?

Horse Travel - instant, costs money

Boat Travel - Leaves docks every few minutes, takes time to travel to destination

Cart Travel - Leaves every few minutes, takes time to travel to destination

25 minutes ago, Asimulum said:

I really don't care anymore, go ahead and destroy all the road RP you want ; ' )

Let's not kid ourselves. Road roleplay does not exist and cannot really exist on this map. Despite the goal of the tile/region system being to concentrate roleplay, it has failed. Players were able to expand far too quickly and the map itself is just way too big. 

Don't get me wrong, I like big maps and I don't think big maps are bad. But nations needs to be concentrated in the center of a map rather than thrown to every extreme corner possible. Expand outwards and inwards instead of expanding away from your nation/every other nation. And as I said previously, I am the BIGGEST proponent of road roleplay. I love it. I would do anything to breathe some life into it. But at this point, I don't think anything can save it besides a different map or a massive editing of our current map.

8 hours ago, SaintPaint said:

 

Skip all that please.(same with cart travel) I would understand having a wait time and all that if the purpose was to make it feel more realistic or immersive. But in this case our ships doesn't actually move, you just wait on a boat that stands still somewhere in the middle of no-where. And people wont rp on them since theres a low chance of meeting people on roads/fts because of the way our map is spread out and constructed. Road and travel RP only works if everyone uses the same road/travel methods. Like in Aegis, Anthos and Athera we had for a large part of the map 1 main road (not so much in Anthos but still to a bit). 

 

This brings me to the topic of our current map and how it was planned once again. The staff wanted us to be centralized, but instead of making a concentrated map they put us spread out on 3 different continents, completely separated from eachother.

The point IS to make it feel more realistic and immersive. For boats, I think it works fine. You're in the middle of the ocean, you likely wouldn't have any reference point for movement. Carts will be tricky but I think we can make it work. I don't think it's fair to say that players WON'T roleplay on them but I might be too over-enthusiastic in thinking that players will. But the option is there. 

And, as I said above, I know the map isn't designed super well. On paper, it sounds great. If we had an active 400, 500 playerbase then I think we'd be fine. But we're stretching out 100, 200 players super thin and that just doesn't work. 

12 hours ago, Medvekoma said:

Don't add more minae sinks without fixing up voting first or resolving the lack of admin shops. If the daily 50-100 coins player get is mostly used for travel, trade will die even more.

Shops are next up on the chopping block. Two moderators have been brainstorming and working out a system for a few weeks now and I want to push that through soon after. Likely soon to follow THAT will be regions.

13 hours ago, shimmeringbliss said:

If we're going to be stranded in the waters, I demand a scenic boat ride!

 

 

That's part of the hope. They'll likely be pretty plain at the start, however, as I'm most interested in getting the systems in place then making them look pretty.

14 hours ago, Whimsylicious said:

I'll just drop my input here.

 

Don't make the whole mid-travel thing. Having to wait for boats and carts to start travelling is good enough. This also means you don't have to make the horses part at all, saves you work.

 

Also no pirate nonsense. VIllainy is shitty enough as it is.

You don't have to wait on the boat the entire time. Once you learn the schedule (and it'll be simple; every 10 minutes, maybe every 5 or 3 minutes, something like that) you can just roleplay, shop, bum around, etc. till the boats about to set sail. Then you just sprint down to the docks and hop on. 

Or you can just roleplay on board, sit afk, etc. Options. Also I'm not going to push through the pirate thing unless it's clear a MASSIVE MAJORITY is in favor of it.

15 hours ago, 7II said:

So WHATS THE IDEA OF SLOW WAGONS

 

 

 

They'll still be faster than walking. Since every fast travel has to be hand-made, part of the work involved will be walking to the destination and seeing how long it takes. Carts should be twice, or three times as fast compared to walking.

15 hours ago, SquirtGun said:

You're gonna make me scream @Ever

 

When we got the map download originally, we assumed the FT would be to the South, so we built the citys front to the South.

 

Then Dan put it in the North, so we reversed the city.

 

Now, its gonna be reversed again haha.

It can be placed wherever. That's the point of a 2nd round of feedback. Just let me know and we can work out something together. Same goes for everyone; if the spot isn't ideal, we can work something out. Just don't expect it to be plopped down right next to your city entrance.

16 hours ago, Enyahs V. said:

I voted other on option 2 because I want those boats to remain where they are, having nation/cities buy their own docks with the boats at the docks costing money. The boats from spawn should be the main mode of travel for those wanting to cause trouble on the isles(Raiders and the like) and remain free for those who want to travel the isles for no cost.

 

Please also make it so horses can easily travel with you across islands.

I want to de-emphasize the importance of spawn. Spawn is where you... well, re-spawn at. You're there for but a moment until you decide on where your roleplay takes you for the day. Making it more important, even if it's just for travelling purposes, adds a fourth island that scatters our population around. Can't make any promises about horses but it's known and acknowledged by our coders (and I've got a tiny idea I'll be testing later.)

17 hours ago, Ark said:

The reason FT timers are there, are for PVP, ten to fifteen seconds is all that's needed to really combat people using them in PVP

Understandable, but rules also exist for a reason. Players abusing fast travels during PVP can and will be punished. 

9 minutes ago, 吳憾戰士14 said:

This just seems way to complicated. Why can't we just have fast-travels from spawn to capital cities which take like 20-30 seconds to activate and have a 10 minute cooldown?

It's complicated on paper, maybe. Just think World of Warcraft zeppelins or boats. They travel on a set schedule and it takes a few minutes to get to your destination. Your suggestion would make the best way to travel just setting your soulstone to spawn and treating Spawn Island as a fast travel hub to everywhere else. At that point, why even have land outside of capital cities and major settlements? It's likely going to be ignored. 

37 minutes ago, Ark said:

Could we just have fast travels with like a 10-15 second cooldown? That's all I really want.

There will be instant fast travel with minor draw back (cost). There's no point to a cooldown if it's that short.

40 minutes ago, AGiantPie said:

Fast travel is supposed to be fast. I will never make use of this pointlessly slow teleporting system and will instead continue to just use my strategically placed soulstones.

The goal is to make it faster than walking but also leave room for exploration and travel based on your current location. 

Instead of this: walk from oren to spawn boat - > walk across spawn island to sutica boat -> walk from sutica boat to sutica

It'd be this: walk to oren docks -> take boat to sutica docks -> walk to sutica

I suppose the goal is to somewhat invalidate the constant need to travel back to spawn simply to get to other islands. Logically, if you're on an island, why do you need to sail to ANOTHER island just to get to your destination? You can just have a direct route there, assuming there's a ship willing to take you.

While I love the visuals of our island spawn, I just don't see the point. It's pretty large for how empty it is and it adds another minute or two of travel time that shouldn't exist.

58 minutes ago, 2samspan said:

https://gyazo.com/60e5d87aa7f85d2982e7d17232fa1bac I would be fine with most of these things, however there are a few suggestions I'd like to make. First, don't just let nation or settlement owners start cart or sea routes. Let players make them. Players who are either wealthy or trying to get wealthy should have the option to make their own sea or cart routes. Second, give those that run them a choice on how much to charge. This would make the idea of starting up your own cart routes a great way to get rich and it create a very dynamic landscape where the routes are opened up over time rather than them all appearing at once. And due to the absolutely absurd time it takes to get from point A to point B in Axios, it would be a great way to give players a new source of revenue. I can think of several people, off the top of my head, who would absolutely love the idea of becoming the LotC equivalent of railroad tycoons.

This is an interesting idea but I think that the fast travels should work as a money sink in the end. There shouldn't be a boatload (heh) of fast travels; just enough to make travelling between islands not a complete pain as well as helping nation capital land -> settlement travel not be a completely boring slog.

3 minutes ago, Savage Scooter said:

first?

 

Edit: Is there any chance that guild charters will be able to buy fast travels or something?

As it stands, that would currently be a part of the plan. It would likely be a case-by-case basis, however. If your group is already NEAR a fast travel or there's no need for it (say, you're located next to a major city or settlement) then I would say no. If you're in the middle of nowhere and have a proper need/playerbase and can pay the cost then we can likely work something out. 

Just now, Teegah said:

Ceru and Asul should be removed and kept for the 6.0 and 7.0 maps. 90% of activity is on Tahn anyways

That's a discussion for another time. I will say that I am massively in favor of shrinking the map drastically but it's hard coming up with a way to do it properly. If, even with fast travels, players are still finding travel times tedious and the population is too wildly dispersed due to the multiple islands, I'd be up for discussing potential map changes.

Just now, A Moongazer said:

 

And what happens to the various cities/nations living on Ceru and Asul? They have all their hard work destroyed for the sake of it?

The plan would likely be world editing their cities and settlements onto the "main" land. But, again, it would be quite difficult and would require quite a lot of give-and-take between all the nations and the playerbase as a whole.

Okay guys, here's part two. You'll find a link to the first thread, a 'your view', below. I let that thread and poll run a week to see just what you guys wanted. In an effort to better target exactly what the playerbase wants, this thread will be more about voting on the details of the future fast travel systems rather than what you'd like to see.

PLEASE READ THE THREE SECTIONS BELOW BEFORE VOTING.

Moving Nation Boats

Out of the 178 people that voted, 107 / 60.11% were in favor of moving nation boats closer to their respective nation's capital. Below you will see the potential changes. The CIRCLED X is where the fast travel will be moved. The UN-CIRCLED X is where the fast travel currently stands. The colored dot represents the nation.

TAHN - Dwarves (orange), Oren (purple), High Elves (periwinkle), Welves (green)

CERU - Sutica

ASUL - Haria (yellow), Orcs (brown), Dreadlands (pink)

There will be a two additional, smaller boats at the docks here. Players can take their respective boats closer to their nation capital.

If you have any qualms, complaints, or worries with these boat movements, post in this thread.

Sea Travel

Over 86% of you wanted sea travel in some fashion. The current plan is as follows:

- Nations and large settlements can purchase sea routes between two docks. 

- Once these routes are purchased and set up, players can journey on boats between the two settlements/nations.

- Every Y minutes, a boat will announce that it is setting sail soon. Only nearby players will hear this.

- A boat will set sail every X minutes. If you're on board the ship as it set sails, you will be transported to the middle of the ocean.

- You will wait on the boat in the middle of the ocean for X minutes. After that time is up, you will be transported to your destination docks.

- Boats will have varying travel time based on the distance they're covering. 

- Boats will likely not cost a travel fee for players.

- Villainous activities are barred on boat travel.

- You can jump out and swim from the boat but you're in the middle of the ocean so have fun.

This helps to simulate sea travel and allows players to traverse the world in ease. You can hop on a boat and go AFK, you can roleplay during your travels, make forum posts, etc. Sometimes it might be faster to soulstone and walk to your destination or ride a horse. The point of this system is to make travelling between the islands less of a pain in the butt (travel from Island A to Spawn to Island B, for example). 

Cart Travel

Admittedly, my poll for land travel was garbage so we'll be re-doing that in this thread. Cart travel will work much like Sea Travel. 

- Nations and large settlements can purchase cart routes.

- Every Y minutes, a cart will announce that it is leaving soon. Only nearby players will hear this.

- Every X minutes, a cart will leave, teleporting everyone inside of it to an in-motion cart. 

- After X minutes, the cart will arrive at its destination.

- Cart travel will be free, but somewhat slow.

- Players cannot leave the cart once it's in motion besides soulstoning.

Horse Travel

- Horse hitching poles or stables on the outskirts of a nation or settlement. 

- "Horse" routes between settlements and Nation capitals. 

- Medium up-front fee to set up the routes as well as an additional cost to use them.

- Can travel instantly but costs minas depending on distance traveled.

- Potentially a cool-down on horse travel as well.

Just now, Rihawk said:

Lol you probably don't remember at all as we were nobodies, but if i'm correct, then I lived in your little tavern with 2 friends, and orc and a dwarf, while I was a human. I honestly don't know how we managed to get a story like that through the application process hahaha. But hey, we were preteens, that sort of thing happens.

 

Also, I seem to remember an event were an elf stripped down in front of the tavern and was dancing around and had clearly gone bonkers. Go figure.

I vaguely remember a handful of people I had down there. Only a few actual names since it was SO long ago but... good tims, I fondly remember them.

Weird how time flies, eh? Hard to think it was five years ago. Some days it feels like last month... Always nice to see someone from way-back, though.

I don't think you understand how Bingo works.

There's been a lot of back and forth and I think we've discussed a lot of good options and points. There will be a new thread up on Saturday with better-targeted feedback and better questions. Don't worry, I'm not asking for more general feedback. This thread will be more like "here's the idea, do you want this: yes or no". Plenty of good feedback in this thread and plenty of good ideas swimmin' upstairs. Anyways, I wanted to make another personal post about how I feel regarding the map and fast travels...

The map is hurting. I'll straight up say that it's designed poorly. The multi-world/islands idea is great and I like it a lot. But travelling between them is clunky. Spawn -> Island A is straightforward. But having to go from Island A -> back to Spawn -> to Island B is silly. We're not taking full advantage of the fact that we're roleplaying on Islands now, though they're quite big. Boat travel can be done quite easily and in a way that doesn't hurt immersion/road roleplay. I've chatted with a coder and even they said it wouldn't be hard to develop.

Also, speaking of road roleplay: There likely isn't any and I don't blame players for not seeking it out. The map is empty. There's not a whole lot to see outside of settlements. It's the same issue I had with our previous map. When I joined, there was a lot to see (past event areas, ghost-town settlements, cities, etc.) but after a week... well, that was it. It was stagnant. Nothing changed. There's a similar issue with our current map. I am the biggest proponent for road roleplay and I'm not a huge fan of fast travel. But even I can't defend this map by saying "just walk around and explore". There's nothing too exciting too see, the map likely won't change drastically, and it's unlikely that you'll come across another player on your travels. 

Obviously the most glaring issue is just that the map is TOO BIG. Obviously it was designed with expansion in mind. Nations start (relatively) small and then, slowly, over months, expand out into the world. But a map should not be designed with the far future in mind. It needs to be designed with the current and very imminent needs in mind. Personally, I think the map is twice, or even triple the size it needs to be. On second thought, map size isn't the issue. SPACING is. Things needs to be closer. We shouldn't be splitting up the player base across three large islands then telling them to walk from capital to capital.

The map did do a few good things, however. The tile system is simple but amazing. It makes divvying up land and expanding nations easy. The islands are a neat idea though they're not being used to their fullest potential. I have no doubt that with a few good ideas, a plugin or two, and some tweaks, this could be a great map. But it needs to happen quickly.

Pros:

- Islands are cool and provide access to some unique roleplay opportunities that we're not taking advantage of

- Tile system is 200% awesome

Cons:

- Nothing to see. Best to just sit inside your fief/settlement/capital than go exploring

- Map is 2 or 3 times bigger than it has any right to be

- Map launched late summer rather than early. Players are still getting accustomed to the map during a time where they have 1 - 3 hours of play time a day rather than 5+.

- Current region system is a bit choking

This charter application has been approved.

Charter accepted; we've talked in-game and your region has been set-up. I wish you and your company luck!

This charter application has been approved.

Bub'hosh charter, accepted. 

The region has been set up. As discussed with HedgeHug, LC will not be provided for the builds but for terraforming- and you guys have finished the terraforming stage under my supervision. Everything else is up to you, good luck and have fun!

Interjecting to remind everyone to keep your cool. We're discussing ways to make the server better and more enjoyable, not making jabs at one another. I'm not saying we're at that point yet but we're getting there.

Regardless, thanks for all the feedback so far and keep it coming.

Just now, Alterazgohg said:

It's not fast if it's instant.

What's quicker than instantaneous? 

As for my own personal opinion, I really like the idea of ports and railways. Rails can be used to travel throughout an island without it being too fast or immersion breaking (plus it opens the door for cool builds- riding a cart down a steep incline right next to two giant lava rivers? Sweeet). Ports, docks, and port cities just make sense since this map is a collection of islands. It'd be silly for cities not to capitalize on this. Though ways of making the travel not instant would be interesting. Perhaps you'd have to wait on a boat a few minutes before it takes off, then you're taken to an empty-ocean where you wait another few minutes until you arrive at the next port. This wouldn't exactly fix the long travel times, but it would make roleplaying while travelling much easier. Instead of run-jumping from one city to the next for five minutes, you could roleplay on a boat.

We're over a month into the new map, our cities are built, and players have begun to spread out into their own settlements. It's evident that the walk between nations and settlements and everything in-between is... a bit much. So let's talk about fast travels. It may just be that the map is just far too big to feasibly walk it and fast travels of some sort would definitely assist in getting players to and from roleplay hubs.

Nation Neutral Fast Travels

Fast travels on the map were supposed to be few and far between, their primary goal was to shuttle players from spawn to an island of their choice OR one of three resource islands. With the tile system and nations moving their plots around, a few of these fast travels aren't really nation-neutral anymore. Constantly moving them only solves the issue for a short time. 

Should the goal of neutral fast travel be abandoned? Should every major nation have a boat relatively close to their city, perhaps a short 100-150 walk from their front door, as opposed to some nations having to walk 500+? Or should we continue to maintain/enforce nation neutral fast travel boats; all nations would have to walk 200-300+ blocks equally, some a bit more.

For reference, here's a map detailing travel from spawn to islands: The X denotes where exactly you land after taking a ship.

Inter-Island Travel

Perhaps the most pressing issue is just how long it takes to travel between... well, everything. If you're currently situated in Nation A and want to travel to Nation C, which is on another island, you have to either soulstone to that nation, soulstone to spawn then walk to the boat that takes you that nation's island, or walk from wherever you're at to the docks that connect you back to Malin island/spawn, then take a boat from there.

Should there be some faster way of travelling between islands? Should there be numerous docks/ports around the islands that let you travel to other islands?  Should cities be able to purchase docks/sea-ways that link up with one another?

Island Travel

While this may be more of an issue with the current region system and the playerbases' tendency to spread out as much as they possibly can, walking between settlements is a pain. Locations where three tiles bump together might have four or five fiefs within a few hundred blocks, guaranteeing that you'll likely come across SOMEONE. Other times, you'll walk across owned-but-empty tiles without seeing any builds or players for hundreds of blocks.

Should there be some sort of island travel? Such as carts, railways, carriages, etc.? If there should be fast travels on the islands, should there be heavy draw backs for using them (I.E., cost minas, can only use one cart an hour, cannot quickly enter carts to deter using them to avoid conflict or attackers, etc.)? 

----------

There's a lot to talk about so feel free to share ANY ideas or thoughts you have on fast travel. The poll above will not decide what happens but is merely to gauge a general interest. Fast travels aren't the only thing we're discussing currently either, the potential return of some sort of moderator autoshop system and updates to the current regioning system are both on the table- though, for the moment, fast travels seem like a much more important issue to address.

Glad to see it finished, looks great.

This charter application has been approved.

Accepted, I believe your plot has already been set up.

On 8/30/2016 at 11:35 AM, MaxGemini said:

Word of warning- Oren is going to stomp you and your entire guild with in 2 weeks unless you garner major support from other player nations. A sudden new guild will be viewed as a dangerous transgression by all nations (as can be seen clearly on this thread) and your guild will be destroyed, your land conquered, and your people butchered by the end of the next month. I know you have a pre-existing guild that you want to work with but each and every one of you should spend tim rping in lotc before you start an independent guild. I implore you not to make a guild charter this early, you will be utterly crushed.

On 8/30/2016 at 0:43 PM, Sultan said:

 

You can take your fear mongering bs out of this thread.. As a veteran leader in Oren, the best thing for this server is new groups joining. And Oren is welcoming to such. Not only that but they are not close to Oren or in the path of expansion that Oren seeks. 

 

Welcome to the server and good luck. 

I'm disappointed.

People complain about low player retention, the server not being kind of enough to newbies, all that jazz. Then when we actually get an influx of newer players, we treat them like garbage and threaten to "destroy, conquer, and butcher" them within a month of their joining. Minecraft multiplayer (and LoTC, really) has always been about playing with your friends. We should be welcoming of anyone who can abide by our rules, our lore, and isn't an outright jerk. Whether they come from another community or not, this group is welcomed in my book. In the end, what's better? 100 players online VS 130 players? Even if you don't often roleplay with the extra 30? If you're worried about isolationism... well, you can always go visit THEM. Regardless, Sultan sums it up the best. The most important thing, as always, will be getting new players in, accommodating them enough so that they can stick around, and making them one of our community members. 

Charter is accepted and we'll be figuring out the plot in-game.