tomahawk90

It's AWESOME, and I havent seen a fraction of it yet.

not sure whether you mean this topic or the link you provided, so did both to be sure. MC name: Tomahawk90 RP name: Urvil first choice: miner second: both be good

I could attend saturday GMT 19:00.

from my quoted op: numerous promises that we are going to be told more of this, on regular basis, often, soon, daily As you quoted my post and responded to it, I should think you have read my whole post. Please read a little more careful next time, you have completely misunderstood me, Im on your side, as I think is very clear from my post. The promises are exactly where I said they are, but to help you out even further, here is a direct quote from the anthos mini-website, which is also a link to the site. How convenient ;) Note that it includes "regular", "often", and it suggests that information will be added nearly daily. Also note that you are telling me you haven't seen any promises including the words I mentioned, to continue stating that you have indeed seen such promises. "The site will be updated at regular instances, meaning that it will have content added often. If it appears barren – then check back the next day!" I also state that I think the staff are no evil geniuses who are willingly hiding an unnecesary amount of info from us, but that they are too busy working on the map, and that the continuing pressure from this forum is probably not helping them. I am basically agreeing with you, so no reasons to get worked up. My only point of critisism is that if the staff decides to come out and say 3.0 is coming soon, releases a mini-website with statements like the one above, they will have to feed info to the playerbase to make sure anticipation does not peak and falter again before 3.0 can be released, which is what I believe is happening now. I believe the staff are doing all they can and I am pretty sure when they release it, I will still think its too soon as I'd rather see everything implemented and stable (fi shop plugin too) before release. In the spirit of the conversation: TL;DR: Im very calm, very patient and hope the staff takes all the time they need, and please read carefully before replying.

First off, I am exited for the new world, if only because it will probably be a beauty to look at. One can't rush beauty. To just respond to one person of a few who are basically saying the same thing.. I think no one would like to be "surprised" by how crafting is restricted, how money is regulated, and other game mechanics as an example. What does not help is that there have been numerous promises that we are going to be told more of this, on regular basis, often, soon, daily etc etc. Just check out the Anthos mini-site, I think the most recent information added there is around 3 weeks old, and thats probably half of the total of information to be found, while the home page really states information will be added almost daily. The idea was good, but if its not carried out correctly, it will backfire, which is happening now. Secrets implies that the staff is willingly witholding info, which is probably true for some of it and for good reason, but I think a large portion of info and teasers that could be supplied to us, the playerbase, is not reaching us not because the staff does not want to give it, but because the staff is busy. That may very well partly come from those around here whining that its taking so long, which concludes a nice circle. I see, in another topic, the media-team asking what they can do because they feel they are not doing enough, I see a playerbase that is annoyed because it is not getting as much information as was promised, I see a forgotten dedicated website for this new world, and I see an overworked staff. See where I am going with this?

Am or Pm? Or, even better, could you simply include a GMT?;) Im confuzzled.

also, many are still suggesting putting restrictions only on metal, diamonds, armor, weapons.. which would thus favor the professions that are orientated on this. Anything that can be made by everyone has a value of near 0. As said before, the only tool for which it truly matters what material it is made of is a pickaxe, the rest can be made of wood or stone, it doesn't matter too much. So, giving everyone access to basic tools would mean all jobs are unnecesary from an economic point of view except for the smith. Also, if I need some food and I have a farm, why would I bother finding someone who can create more bread out of the same amount of wheat, I will usually be able to make enough myself in less time then it would cost me to go find a professional.

I'm in Europe, GMT +1. Usually that's not a problem, but it is when I have to work evening/night. Maybe traininggroups should be divided in time-zones, you could PM the legion members who are in Australia and/or Europe I think, I am in for any training I can make it to, there are just not that many so I would welcome them all.

without responding to the solution you give, I full-out agree with you that there is no middle ground, and that's a fact, for the game's mechanics simply do not support a half-hearted attempt at slight restrictions. So you are either for or against heavy restrictions, not "a little", it should not even be an option. I still owe you a full reply, I have been very busy and going to bed, just checking in to read here. Know that it takes long because you made some very valid points which I need to ponder over. I love you man. No, seriously, this is exactly what I am attempting for my private server after playing here and realising this would probably be the best solution. It makes so much sense. Only new thing was the limiting of stone gathering, I like that and will add it to the list of ideas (faster wood cutting and slower stone gathering). edit: sorry for double-post, I'll go to bed now.

I have a simple question; What is this hold of Kastoria? As in, its probably in dwarven lands, but I suppose its not a dwarven settlement? I miss a piece of general information, would be great if some could be provided/linked. I might live here, as I am a member of the delvers.

((damn, I have a whole week without colleges coming up and you pick right the time I have to work! to bad Im gonna miss it again))

-snip-

I am very looking forward to it! I do hope that all the planned features of the server will be ready upon release, so fi the shop plugin implemented too before we are released onto 3.0. We have 2.5.2 to be entertained by for now, so please don't rush the release in any way. I'd rather see the shop plugin and others be tested in 2.5.2 then see it having a false start on 3.0, because I think 3.0 should not be spoiled in any preventable way. There will probably be plenty of unforseen events for which all attention of the dev's is required. A question: Will the article on money be expanded, or will there be a more in-depth post on the workings of the economy? I only ask because the article doesn't conclude with "more on this later", while some other articles do (and I'm curious ofcourse). Thanks to all those who helped building, and good luck in the final phase!;)

MC Name: Tomahawk90 RP Name: Urvil

Well, we do agree on the fact that an economy cant exist when there are no serious limitations, if I understand you correctly. I think the point where we are disagreeing is whether or not that would be a bad thing. Its hard to summarise (especially if not in your native language) so tell me if Im wrong, but I think what it comes down to is this; I think an economy would be an incentive for roleplay, while you think it would hold rp down (very summarised here). We have very different views of the whole experience the server should provide I guess. You think that RP will flourish because we are a Roleplaying server, and people come here to roleplay. How one gathered the items that are used for this roleplaying are therefor unimportant, as long as there is a good story going on, and you state early Aegis (I wasnt there yet unfortunately) and the current situation as examples. Am I correctly summarising here? I think that it would benefit roleplay greatly if what one roleplays does actually make "real" sense in game. So, if I am out in the woods and I run out of food, I will swear at myself and walk all the way back to find a farmer willing to sell stuff. I think when things aren't limited, no-one would do that, as you could just build a small farm right there. Ofcourse, you can still walk all the way back to find that farmer if you so please, but most of us wouldn't (I dont). Therefor, the farmer is useless. Restricting what one can do would mean the farmer would actually feel useful when growing crops, for there will be those who NEED to buy it for they cant craft it themselves. In the current situation, roleplaying fi a farmer isnt doable, for no-one needs your produce so no one will come to rp with you. This in turn leads to a lot of would-be farmers running around in the world looking for their own big adventure. That at least is what I see happening in the current world, some more experienced players are running their kingdoms/clans/order/etc. while the less experienced or less involved players are part of those organisations and havent got much more to do. I went and offered to mine for the elves, but they will never accept as they can simply do it themselves, so only the racial rp is left. There is nothing I can add to the world by simply playing my mining character, the only thing in which I can stand out is with having the most epic adventures or aspire to become a commander of this or that. If professions were in place, someone would need my skills in mining, and I would need someone to for my food and tool supply. I think thats an example of adding to rp. I understand your view when you say that these rather unimportant items should not take up time that could be spend roleplaying something greater, but this I think is mainly true if we are all going to play heroes and villains. Without restrictions, the "simple folks", lumberjacks, miners, farmers etc, would have no rp at all unless someone is kind enough to pretend they cant provide the items themselves. No restrictions will lead to everyone gathering the resources they need where and when they need them, before setting out on their own "big adventure", without any regard of how they really got the items. Having someone who is capable of gathering the resource a little faster does not chance anything to this. If I run out of pickaxes, I will go outside, cut down a few trees, build me some new pickaxes and go in to mine again. If Im out of food, I will make a farm, grow some wheat, replant the farm, make myself some bread and go back into the mine. Im not going to look for someone who would maybe make a better yield out of my farm, and Im not going to RP I cant do these things even though I would rather have my character find a lumberjack and a farmer to do it for me. Also, the lumberjacks and farmers of the server are usually not there, because they are fi out mining to get some stone for a new axe or hoe, or more frequently are out on a big heroic adventure because they got bored doing a job no-one needs (shops would help, but thats another topic). You say that acquiring items that arent a major plot point for you character should not be a big concern, but with that, arent you actually saying that you have a planned future for your character, instead of letting the surroundings determine the future of your character? I do not know what "plot" my character will be in, so I do not know in advance what is or isnt a major plot point. As an example, I was planning on mining a set amount of stone for the dwarves, ran out of food and in my search for food I ran into someone who offered me a steady supply of food and a roof above my head if I would work for him. This happened only because I refused to just grow my own food on the spot, and because of this, the simple fact that I was in search of something to eat might be a very big plot point in my characters life, as I now have a job in an order I would otherwise never have noticed. I think thats much more RP then my mining dwarf tending a farm and cutting trees and slaying mobs when he needs something.

Not long now at all, I think we are only waiting for it to become day now.

From reading this I understand that you say the restrictions are the cause of the problems back in Asulon, without asking yourself WHY these restrictions caused a problem. Would it be possible something else wasnt carried out correctly in Asulon, which caused the restriction system to be unworkable? If you haven't yet, could you read my post before this one or elaborate why you think the restrictions caused the problems? As far as I know we will have a shop plugin. If carried out correctly, the drawback you mention with not being able to find a place to get the goods you cant craft yourself will not exist. It will however encourage trade between players. If done correctly, one does not mean the other can't be used. All goods should be available to everyone, but it should be preferable to trade between players. One can't NOT restrict the economy, because there wont be an economy. Without restrictions, why would we want to manage resource and money flow, as anyone can create anything. And as long as anyone can create anything, everything will be of 0 value. Look at the reactions when mobs started to drop leather accidentely, as soon as a good that was only available to some becomes available to anyone, the value drops to 0. Besides this all, the reasons for conflict in the world are almost always to do with the economy. Easier access to resources or strategic positions is far more important then blunt retaliation, which is usually the sole reason in LotC as we do not have to wage war on each other over valuable land or resources. If enough shops are allowed and fi the solution with more expensive non-player controlled shops is implemented, I dont see any left over problems with the economy, and plenty of interesting new RP possibilities. One can assume that when there is a need for something, someone will jump in the gap and provide for that need, because thats where money can be made. This is realistic (=easier to RP) and workable, shops will pop up at places where people need them to be. As I and others have stated before, what does that mean for fi wood and food, as opposed to ores? Would a farmer really be interested in getting a golden hoe, does a lumberjack really need a diamond axe? The answer is no, they can gather everything with stone tools already. So, would players go and talk to others to get these tools? no, they would keep crafting their stone tools and be able to go on forever. As anyone can do that, no-one but the most honorable rp-er will be willing to pay for goods he/she could simply craft him/herself. Result: the value of food, wood and all the products made with these will be near 0. Then ores. Ore gatherers profit immensly from a better quality pickaxe, as they have to cut through masses of stone before reaching ores, and especially the best ones which cant even be gathered without having used a lower ranging ore (iron pickaxe). So, the only materials that will have value if basic tools are available to anyone, are ores and products made with these. The result: everyone willing to make money will become a miner, all other professions will die out eventually. This is not at all a solution, you're certainly not the only ones to come up with this but please read before throwing your ideas out there. ~end rant

Beware, wall of text I think many of us are missing out on solutions as we are looking in one direction, instead of first establishing the problem and assessing other solutions too. In other words, we are looking at this from an angle to close to the problem, so I think its time to take a step back and see if we can take a different approach. Sorry if I sound like I want to teach, its just that this is part of my education so Im quite set in the approach I take towards "problems". One first has to pinpoint exactly what the problem is, before looking at solutions. Additional positive is that if anyone disagrees with what I am stating, they can clearly state what part they disagree with and it can simply be altered, and because the whole thing is a linear process in which one follows from the before stated, this will quickly result in a better solution. Instead of looking at crafting and the economy seperatly, one could look at the overlying problem. Ultimately, this lead me to think that the best solution would be to limit what players can craft through code, and limit what can be gathered through creating diversity in the world. This is how I got there, conclusion is at the bottom if you want to skip: On crafting: Solutions I have seen in this thread: On economy: Conclusion In my opinion, the best solution would be to seriously limit what players can do. I hated that system as many others do, but it's really the only way to enforce people to roleplay a certain profession instead of being indiana jones who is capable of anything. And as far as I know, the reason of this hatred towards the old system of firm restrictions was not that players wanted their character to be able to do everything, it was that it meant some resources became extremely difficult to gather, leading to frustration and loss of interest (I am assuming this, correct me if Im wrong). What I am trying to say is that I think its not the restrictions that were the problem, but rather the fact that everything grinded to a halt. I have seen suggestions such as NPC merchants around the land selling items at a higher price, so items will always be available. I liked that idea very much, as this would solve the biggest problem people have with the high amount of restrictions (I think). This would also take some minas out of the economy, decreasing the rate of inflation. Also, as it is decided that not all the land will be regioned, everyone will at least be able to gather some supplies, especially around the monks sanctuary or whatever else will be in its place. Making your first bucks should be a little less hard now, even with high restrictions on your character. In the end, one has to weigh the freedom of players against the playability and fun of the whole community. Players do not like to be restricted, but if this is allowed, no economy will exist. Ultimately, I came to this conlusion: Any player should be able to gather any resource and craft any item if willing to learn. The professions system was good and the maximum amount of points that could be spend on professions made sure that no-one would be good at everything, but there was still room for characters who were medicore at everything. This is both realistic and it does not take away from the freedom of the player, while still allowing those who choose gathering of resources or crafting of items as a job to excel at it over others such as fighters. Crafting should be incorporated into this skill system, so that points can be spend on crafting skills instead of on resource gathering. This way, players who choose a profession such as baker become possible. Now this is impossible, because everyone who has wheat can bake a bread. Anyone can excel at anything, but not everything basically. This would already be a boost to economy, as different players choose different fields to excel at and they will have an incentive to trade. To further increase trade, not every corner of the world should allow every form of resource to be gathered. It would be quite ridiculous to limit crafting to locations, as this is usually only limited by the skill of the one crafting, but it would make perfect sense that every location on the earth supplies different things and more importantly lacks certain resources. This would mean that fi grain does not grow nearly as fast in the mountains as it would in flat grassy fields, if it doesn't not grow at all. It makes perfect sense without limiting anyone drastically. An example to finish of: Dwarves. Dwarves are known to love digging for ores. This is why they live in the mountains. Right now, this is all lore-based, as dwarves could just as well go live in the middle of a forest and dig down and have a better chance at finding valuable ore. Applying the suggestions I make would not deter from roleplay, they would strengthen roleplay and lore, justifying things instead of questioning things `thats hours of thought and 1 1/2 hours of writing :)'

*A note written in sloppy handwriting is pinned to the notice board* To w'om t'is m'ey concern I Urvil wud like t' 'ave meself a 'ome but couldnt find a vacant 'ole W'om s'ud I contact? I be sleepin' in the mine fur now and be checkin t'is board too Also I entered the 'old cus the door was open and I can't lock it so nuw any'one can walk in Urvil

((I'd like to stress Im timezone GMT+1, Europe, so Im not usually online at these times. Maybe something to add to the app, but anyhow, messaging me on the forum probably works best/fastest))