Cpt_Noobman

Sounds more like a culture than a subrace to me, but still interesting. I suggest you speak to Tristan and Deckion, they were playing Brinejaws which were literally sea dwarves like you describe.

My only question is if the lore for these cannons is accepted, I would want to know how gunpowder cannons would compare to rune cannons (already lore accepted, and purchasable for sieges). Before lots of lore for these things get accepted people will have to balance them with pre-existing alternatives.

Understandable, there's no set amount of emotes for the rp of a weapon though, the 3 emotes was just a suggestion. The main point I was trying to make is that the reload time is undeniably inferior to that of crossbows or bows, emote amounts is really all up to the person doing the rp. But they should know that due to the pressure needing to build up there is no way to speed up the reload time with a handgun, where as a person could try to load more arrows quicker and be successful.

Responding to some of the replies, the handguns I wish to see implemented are not meant to be more or less powerful than any of the weapons already on the server, and shouldn't be looked at as such. They are merely a different type of weapon with their own pros and cons. A musket ball would not one shot you unless you wanted it to. People on this server emote taking multiple arrows and still fighting and that's fine, it's fake. A bullet though it would likely have an easier time hitting it's target and penetrating armor, it wouldn't hurt nearly as much realistically. And the slow reload time would allow maybe 1 shot in an rp fight when an archer could fire 3+ arrows. It's just for flair really, not meant to be better or worse than anything else. Also, please keep in mind as I said in the post these weapons will be open for everyone's use if implemented, it's not to force one person's superior weaponry over another's. Also if you wish to see my vision for this lore, I encourage you to explore the Warhammer fantasy universe where orcs with arrows and spears can still contend with Dwarven thunderers and artillery, it's not meant to be an end-game, just something cool to write in rp posts.

^. But in the meantime I hope this will work

memeflash

~Runic Handguns~ Shortly after the invention of the rune cannon, development went into smaller versions for personal use on the battlefield. Once again gunpowder versions of the weapon were tried, only to result in failure despite the expertise of the Dwarven Engineers. So, the designs were turned over to Dizzy Irongrinder, as well as the runesmiths of Arcadia with the oversight of Fili Grandaxe, to try and complete development on the weapons utilizing runesmithing. Based on the same design as the previous rune cannon, it was quite easy to adapt the same concept for use as a personal weapon. Two versions of the final weapon were produced, one for commanders as an ornament of rank, and one slightly more practical as a weapon for the rank-and-file soldier. The runic pistol and musket were born. Mechanics The two weapons are both relatively inaccurate, in contrast with the highly precise and deadly rune cannon. The most practical use for runic muskets are in very close quarters, or in firing lines of highly trained marksmen, though some sharpshooters have proven able to maintain semblance of accuracy over increased ranges. The runic pistol has practically little or no use at all beyond a closer range, and is used mostly as a status symbol for commanders and prominent Dwarves. Loading Procedure Open the pressure valve Insert ammunition, standard is a lead ball Close pressure valve, brush finger over rune to begin pressure Once the gauge approaches a firing level, release valve to fire Repeat. Repairs As with all runes, the steam producing runes that allow the handguns to fire wear out with use, and will need to be replaced after every few engagements, if the weapons were to be rp’d properly. Pros/Cons Pros High damage if a hit is successful Can pierce through light armor with ease, and some heavier armor types. Can be used by unskilled warriors once taught how to operate them (easy to load and fire, no strength or intelligence requirement) Increased range over conventional weapons if operated correctly Cons Low fire rate (it takes about 15 seconds to reload between shots, approximately 3 emotes) Must be produced by highly trained workers in factories Field repairs are impossible without a runesmith to perform them OOC Explanations [Representation] The musket and pistol shall be mc’ly represented by a bow and arrow, I suggest using armor piercing arrows for the greatest representation. These items are already on the server, and will not pose any advantage over those using bows and crossbows in a pvp fight. [Justification] Firearms, or firearms-like devices have already made entry into the server, and have integrated quite well without diminishing the value of any technology already on the server. I hope adding these weapons will increase the diversity and scale of the server, and support the fantasy theme we follow. The humans in Oren have already made good use of magical flint locks, so it would make sense for other races to keep up with that as well. [Exclusiveness] Although this is a Dwarven invented weapon, I do not wish to see it strictly race-locked. It would be perfectly feasible for other races to come across individual weapons, or to attempt to adapt the tech for their own use. However, I would like to ask large groups of players to respect the fact that these weapons would be largely unavailable outside of the dwarven kingdom, but if they wish to arm their own men with weapons as well I wouldn’t attempt to prevent them from such. My vision for the wartime server is something similar to Warhammer fantasy where the old and late medieval world go hand in hand and create a truly unique and diverse fantasy experience. If anyone has any questions, suggestions, or other advice/criticism please contact me or reply to this post, I would be more than willing to negotiate this lore with the LT.

~The Dwarven Rune Cannon~ ~Background~ In the wake of the 18 years war, which brought the Grand Kingdom of Urguan near to its breaking point, the Dwarves recognized the fact that they were outmatched to the far more vast numbers fielded by Orenian forces during the war. With a stunt in population, they understood that the only way to maintain their influence in the world was to further develop their technology, and exploit the ancient magics and lore passed down from their ancestors to it’s full advantage. So, as the war came to a close with the death of John Horen, Dwarves of all trades and professions began development on new weapons, strategies, and domestic inventions to improve the efficiency of the race as a whole. Under the eyes of Fili Grandaxe and Dizzy Irongrinder, a new weapon was put into development based on concepts first developed by the Dwedmar of yore. Bearing a similar design to the gunpowder-based cannons of Aegis, the cannon’s first prototype was produced in years following the war. After years of further research and perfection, the cannon was finally brought into the world as a viable weapon of war. ~Function~ Utilizing runesmithing, the cannon uses pressure as a means of firing it’s projectiles. Specially made ammunition casings, and cannon balls are loaded into the barrel of the gun, where they roll down into a slot bordering a valve operated by a handle on the outside of the cannon. In the rear of the weapon, behind the valve, a Create + Steam rune is placed, and is activated by voice commands given by the engineer put in charge of firing the gun. These commands are usually in Dwarven, and vary cannon to cannon in an attempt to make the weapons unusable by those who would turn them against the Dwarves. To fire the cannon, the release valve must be closed, and the rune deactivated until it is ready to be fired. Once the valve is closed, the ammunition may be loaded into the barrel, and the rune activated. As pressure builds up in the rear of the gun, a gauge slowly ascends next to the targeting mechanism, bearing markings in Dwarven numerals signalling different ranges at which the projectile will reach when the valve is released. The effective range of a stoneshot cannister caps out at around 1500 yards, and if the valve is not released by the time the range caps out, then the cannon faces the risk of exploding from the excess of outward pressure. If up to this point all of the firing steps are followed, then the valve may be released and the projectile will reach the specified target. ~Ammunition Types~ (ammunition types are primarily for rp, but may see mc representation at gm discretion during warclaims, like arrow storms, etc.) The cannon boasts a series of ammunition types, both for destroying enemy fortifications, and for anti-infantry and cavalry purposes. The following is a list of all currently developed ammunition types, with a description of each. Stoneshot- Similar to the stoneshot ammunition used with trebuchets, a stoneshot cannister is a rounded off stone cannonball used for destroying enemy defenses. It’s maximum range caps out at less than 1500 yards. Ironshot- Ironshot acts similarly to stoneshot, the primary difference being that the projectile is made of cast-iron, and not stone. Being much heavier than it’s stone-counterpart, ironshot packs a much greater punch, but it’s range caps out at less than 1100 yards. Cannister- Cannister shells are an anti-infantry/cavalry ammunition type, with a short range. Bits of sharp metal and other shrapnel are loaded into a hollow clay cannister shell, and when they reach their target, they shatter and send shrapnel flying around the point of impact, and in a cone in the direction they were fired. If the pressure is increased so highly that it shatters the casing before it leaves the barrel, the shrapnel is expelled from the barrel in a cone in the direction it was fired. Effective range, less than 900 yards at low pressure, less than 100 yards at high pressure. Steam- A steam “shot” is essentially just firing the cannon with no ammunition loaded. When the valve is released, a burst of steam hot enough to burn flesh, or cook a knight inside of his armor is released. Occasionally, a mix of other chemicals may be added into the barrel to make a more deadly firing round. Firing a burst of steam can be dangerous to the crew however, as conditions around the cannon could cause the trajectory of the gas to blow back to the crew. Using steam firing is a final resort if the crew is being charged, or runs out of ammunition. Effective range, less than 50 yards. Fireshot- Fireshot is perhaps the most dangerous of the ammunition types, to both the enemy and the crew. Using expertly crafted casings, alchemist’s fire is loaded into the shell, with weak points marked around the cartridge. When the shot hits, the pressure the volatile liquid is subjected to forces it out of the weak points, sending it spurting in as little as 2, or as many as 9 different directions. This ammo type is the most expensive, and difficult to craft type, and is the most likely to backfire on the crew if handled improperly. Effective range, less than 700 yards. Advantages: A very powerful weapon, it is capable of punching deep holes through walls, and barricades, creating a far deeper path than conventional siege weapons. It is far more accurate than the fickle ways of trebuchets, and siege ballistas, and is much more likely to hit it’s target than those aforementioned. In addition to it’s offensive capabilities, it can be used for defense as well. It’s notable ability to smash through wooden barricades makes it a good choice for targeting an offensive force’s siege equipment. Disadvantages: Being a more fickle weapon in regards to reloading, it takes longer to load properly than conventional siege weapons, as the crew has to wait for pressure to build up, which can take up to 4 minutes for maximum range.. It is a weapon with very intricate mechanisms that allow it to work properly so as a result it is about twice as susceptible to malfunction as conventional siege weapons. Unlike trebuchets and ballistas, it cannot be assembled on the battlefield, so it must be built elsewhere and then limbered by horse or golem to the battlefield if used for an offensive attack. After every shot if mounted on a cart or wheels, the cannon’s aim is thrown off, and it must be re-adjusted by the aimer and spotter to be aligned to it’s original position. Being a Dwarven work of art, it costs more to produce than a conventional siege weapon, both in minas for production of the weapon itself, and materials for the ammunition it uses. If pressure is allowed to build up for too long of a time, the gun may explode due to the outward pressure and could harm the crew. After every battle, the weapon will need to be dismantled so that the rune can be replaced, or redrawn. Runes can wear away after a certain amount of use. Neutral Statistics: A three man crew is recommended for firing the cannon, consisting of a reloader, and aimer/shooter, and a spotter to mark targets. It can be worked by two men, but it takes twice as long to fire if this is done, and could be less accurate. In a defensive situation, it can be mounted on a rotatable axis so that when it is fired, the aim is not thrown off. In an offensive situation if it is mounted on a cart, or wheels, the aim will be thrown off after each shot, and will need to be re-adjusted. OOC Suggested Stats For Use (Up to GM discretion of course) Cost: 750 minas to create the siege weapon as opposed to 500 for trebs, and 250 for ballistas. If an ammunition system is implemented, then each ironshot should require 10 gunpowder, and 9 iron ingots to make. Firing: The cannon malfunctions on a roll of 2 or lower, as opposed to a roll of 1 for trebs/ballistas. The cannon gets a critical hit on a roll of 19 or above as opposed to a roll of 20 for trebs/ballistas 17-18 is a direct hit, 15-16 is a hit, 10-15 is an indirect hit, 3-10 is a miss. It takes 2 minutes to fire with a crew of 3 compared to 1 minute for trebs/ballistas. With a crew of two, the time doubles making it 4 minutes to reload and fire. Unlike a trebuchet, it can only be fired in a straight line so shots cannot be arced over walls or towers to hit things behind them. If it needs to hit something behind cover, the best bet for the operator is to try and shoot through the cover. Damage on Impact: A hit causes a deeper blow into defenses than a treb or ballista, but the tunnel it creates is not as wide, making it useful for creating breaches, just not large ones. Against players, I would suggest a fireball or AOE damage of some sort.

Guys, please don't get into huge arguments on this thread. I appreciate you both expressing your opinions rather you support my idea or disagree, but try to keep it civil.

It might as well be a bring the cannons back idea. I forgot that the Teutons had cannons somehow, but I think former Teutons or Teuton related engineers may be able to figure it out. The reason I limited it to dwarves in the post was just because I figured dwarves would be more likely to rediscover it first based on our current situation. Anyone with previous knowledge on how the cannons worked might be able to create these new ones if they get a hold of one.

Alright, I'll try a few of the other loremasters. Thanks for the reply.

I understand that anything regarding cannons have been denied as general rule in recent times, but I feel that a cannon could fit well into the server and contribute to the fantasy atmosphere of the server without taking away from any sort of immersion the server provides at the moment. I'd be willing to talk with staff members to explain this concept in more detail if you'd be willing to talk with me. I just don't want an interesting and good piece of lore in my opinion to be denied on account of a rule made to prevent mistakes from the past.

I'm re-posting this thread because I was completely dissatisfied with the answer given in the original post. I was in TS with Dizzy at the time he denied it, and I can say with conviction that no more than a moments thought was given in denying it. I don't mind if you deny it, but please respect that I worked rather hard on this lore, and spent a few hours writing it. If you're going to deny it, please give me a real reason. Also, I'd like to request another staff member be the one to answer this thread next time. Edit: If you have any fears or issues about it's balance or other problems, please talk to me first, and things like that can be worked out.

~The Dwarven Siege Cannon~ As Orenian forces pressed ever closer to the Dwarven heartland, the Dwedmar were desperate for an edge against these foreign invaders. Under Rhewen Frostbeard, Dwarven tinkers, engineers and inventors of all kind were set to work on various war machines, traps, and other weapons that could give them an advantage in battle. A group of Dwarven golemancers, remembrancers, and engineers came together to begin work on a weapon of special note. Using recovered schematics used by the Dwarves of yore, and working by memory, they began production on a modified version of the ancient Dwarven cannons used hundreds of years prior. After years of tireless and dedicated work, and the pooling of an innumerable amount of resource in the forms of mina, iron, gunpowder, fine workmanship, and the death of one beardling in a testing accident, the product of this labor was the Dwarven siege cannon. Nicknamed Hefjhor guns in honor of the lad who died in it’s production, the cannon truly matches his name’s Dwarven meaning. A hulking beast of cast iron, intricately shaped and carved in decorative fashions with runes and depictions of the Brathmordakin, it has all qualities that a Dwarf finds admirable. It is wide, heavy, dangerous, and it packs quite a punch. After the Vanderguanian victory at the siege of Kal’Ordholm, the dwarves were able to safely test fire the cannon, and get accurate results on the way it works in practice, and compile a list on it’s functions and advantages/disadvantages. Advantages: A very powerful weapon, it is capable of punching deep holes through walls, and barricades, creating a far deeper path than conventional siege weapons. It is far more accurate than the fickle ways of trebuchets, and siege ballistas, and is much more likely to hit it’s target than those aforementioned. In addition to it’s offensive capabilities, it can be used for defense as well. It’s notable ability to smash through wooden barricades makes it a good choice for targeting an offensive force’s siege equipment. Disadvantages: Being a more fickle weapon in regards to reloading, it takes longer to load properly than conventional siege weapons. It is a weapon with very intricate mechanisms that allow it to work properly so as a result it is about twice as susceptible to malfunction as conventional siege weapons. Unlike trebuchets and ballistas, it cannot be assembled on the battlefield, so it must be built elsewhere and then limbered by horse or golem to the battlefield if used for an offensive attack. After every shot if mounted on a cart or wheels, the cannon’s aim is thrown off, and it must be re-adjusted by the aimer and spotter to be aligned to it’s original position. It takes longer to load and fire than conventional siege weapons, as many more steps are followed to do so. Being a Dwarven work of art, it costs more to produce than a conventional siege weapon, both in minas for production of the weapon itself, and materials for the ammunition it uses. Neutral Statistics: A three man crew is recommended for firing the cannon, consisting of a reloader, and aimer/shooter, and a spotter to mark targets. It can be worked by two men, but it takes twice as long to fire if this is done, and could be less accurate. In a defensive situation, it can be mounted on a rotatable axis so that when it is fired, the aim is not thrown off. In an offensive situation if it is mounted on a cart, or wheels, the aim will be thrown off after each shot, and will need to be re-adjusted. OOC Suggested Stats For Use (Up to GM discretion of course) Cost: 750 minas to create the siege weapon as opposed to 500 for trebs, and 250 for ballistas. If an ammunition system is implemented, then each shot should require 10 gunpowder, and 9 iron ingots to make. Firing: The cannon malfunctions on a roll of 2 or lower, as opposed to a roll of 1 for trebs/ballistas. The cannon gets a critical hit on a roll of 19 or above as opposed to a roll of 20 for trebs/ballistas 17-18 is a direct hit, 15-16 is a hit, 10-15 is an indirect hit, 3-10 is a miss. It takes 2 minutes to fire with a crew of 3 compared to 1 minute for trebs/ballistas. With a crew of two, the time doubles making it 4 minutes to reload and fire. Unlike a trebuchet, it can only be fired in a straight line so shots cannot be arced over walls or towers to hit things behind them. If it needs to hit something behind cover, the best bet for the operator is to try and shoot through the cover. Damage on Impact: A hit causes a deeper blow into defenses than a treb or ballista, but the tunnel it creates is not as wide, making it useful for creating breaches, just not large ones. Against players, I would suggest a fireball or AOE damage of some sort. ((To any loremasters or other staff that decided on whether or not it’s accepted, I understand why you wouldn’t want to with your rules on gunpowder. But to be honest, gunpowder has already come very far on the server from being used in fireworks, to making TNT, to making explosive arrows. I don’t think making a cannon would be that terrible all things considered. It pretty much follows the same rules for other siege equipment as well with a few differences, so in my opinion it wouldn’t be OP like previous cannons on the server. I just think it would give some flair to the battlefield, and make things a bit more interesting. Thanks for reading, and let me know what you think in the reply section. I may add/subtract things from the lore depending on response.

I could understand that the price for ammunition is a bit cheap. I'll raise the suggested price to 10 gunpowder and an iron block.

Dwarves will try to keep the information of how they work secret, but it could be reverse-engineered by another master engineer if they captured a working cannon, or convinced a dwarf with knowledge of their construction to share the schematics.

To be fair though, there's already TNT enabled on the server, breaking away from that quote. And in many fantasy games and books like Warhammer cannons are used alongside the bows swords and armor like those that are found in LoTC.

Noted. I'll try and dig up some old lore on the previous cannons, and make some more of my own to try and make a more in depth description of the cannon.

Yeah, I heard about that too. Though I heard they were heavily abused in past maps, so I tried my best to put tighter restrictions and balance to this new variation.