JuliusAakerlund

Erik Colborn couldn't stop himself from letting out a loud whistle as he read the missive in passing. "By Carr's coins! What a striking donation, he must have inherited the bloodline thicker than I."

4 hours ago, Ibn Khaldun said:

 

Before I start my reply, let me preface by saying that I respect your opinion and appreciate you replying in a neutral tone rather than a belligerent or defensive tone. Thank you:

 

I certainly do not deny the existence of bad-faith actors. I do not know what all maps you have played on before retiring, I was only around for 1.0 Aegis, 2.0 Asulon, then helped firespirit44 run the antagonists in I think the 5.0 or 6.0 maps before returning last year to a semi-active playing position. I think it would benefit the discussion if we name and explain who the bad-faith actors are and give as detailed examples of their bad-faith actions as possible so we can identify "red flags" in general both from a player's perspective & moderation perspective.

 

Perhaps it is the nostalgic & idyllic times of Aegis, but I personally have difficulty wrapping my head around the existing system of "warclaims." I think nomadic player-groups should forfeit the ability to "claim" land in a warclaim, but can "claim" a parcel of land to leave a camp if they succeed in defeating a sedentary nation. Likewise, perhaps harkening too much to the "Aegis" days, Im struggling to understand why an attacked nation wouldn't be able to find the nomadic camp and raze it to the ground.

 

I think my question regarding naming and explaining bad-faith actors & their actions will go a long way to working through a lot of the consternation towards promotion of conflict roleplay. I remember when I returned in Almaris, a consistent issue I observed and anecdotally heard was the sheer sluggishness & stagnation of the map changing to reinvigorate interest in the majority of players who would be bored of only Slice of Life roleplay. I think players need to come to the table more to negotiate good-faith conflict and I am seeing it in this map: Petsch2k and his "Deadmund Order/Order of the Deadmen" undead-thrall group is a great example - he has negotiated with various nation leaders that he will attack, sets parameters on what he will do (if he fully succeeds in an attack) and does a good job fostering conflict where both sides have been enjoying it (see Petsch2k's ST application for anecdotal evidence).

 

Cheers mate and have a wonderful week yourself!

 

PS: I read your side note and re-read the thread. I wouldn't be opposed to nomadic groups being restricted from warclaims that "claim" land, if anything, I think culturally nomadic groups can reasonably be expected to avoid "settling" for cultural or other reasons.

So far I have participated in all the maps, though I took a rather lengthy break for large chunks of Elysium. I think we more or less agree in most regards at least almost 96% if not more. It seems more so that perhaps because we've not been able to talk at length about the depths of the subject we've made some assumptions - through no fault of our own.

When it comes to bad faith actors I would say that there's been many groups who have clearly used these kinds of strategies in the past, causing great damage. While some of these names can refer to current day groups or not, I mostly refer to specific compositions, during certain points in time (specific maps). This could be anything from the Dunamites, de Salt Pans, Dreadlanders, Flays etc. Whenever there has ever been a easy way for people with bad intentions to create large damage readily, without much commitment - they've done so. I suppose I would point more specifically to the many assassination attempts upon NLs that are often a group effort, yet done on throwaway characters. These characters have not built anything in RP to facilitate the movement or their actions. Yet if you cut off one head of that hydra they return three more, each with the same title, played by the same player and with the same goal. This in my view is a level of harrassment many have experienced over the years that the server simply neglects. It's extremely difficult for staff to make a judgement call as these groups will then just alt if banned, or have already done the deed - prior to staff intervention. This is a tug of war that sort of began since the end of the Duke's War and has only gotten worse over the years. I think this is also what has caused the effect you've noticed, where people are not as willing to trust each other anymore.

Though these are my observations from anywhere to having experienced it myself as a NL or seeing it done to entire communities. I think it's fair to say that you and I both remember the days when raids were a every day experience. This too had to be given a cooldown due to bad faith actors using it to simply bully or mob groups out of existence, none of which were good RP or really added to the server. I of course in the same breath commend good villainy RP and any time it takes place, such as the Ferrymen, who while infamous, have a penchant for RP themselves.

When people are willing to work together and when mechanics are balanced properly the server is at its best. As I stated previous and as we both seem to agree. I think there are plenty of ways for Nomadic groups to participate in combat as it stands. In my case I just have a specific worry when it comes to warclaims. Though not a article used in the past this is also another mean made due to the evolving culture, much of which was toxic for a time. But, we could spend many paragraphs discussing that in specific.

I think the conclusion I decide to draw from our back and forth is that we both love nomadic groups. We likewise seem to agree on the majority of points. It seems likely instead the few differences we have is due our different experiences.

As always, I wish you none but the best,

Sincerely, Julius

16 hours ago, Ibn Khaldun said:

 

I personally believe that good lobbying from good-faith players can usually overcome this obstacle. I have had good outcomes from simply sitting with Nation Leaders and negotiating reasonable "encampments" being pitched.

 

 

I know you to be a good-faith player, so I will not interpret this uncharitably. The real-world consequences you speak of are actually more mitigated for nomadic civilizations versus sedentary civilizations. You also ignore the very obvious benefit of "waging war on a nomadic group" which is the promotion of conflict and to give players the opportunity to break monotony of SoL roleplay.

 

 

This feedback is probably the most valuable regarding the topic broached by the OP. Nomadic roleplay is only as good as the members composing it and since nomadic roleplay tends not to feed into the nation system mechanics - you don't find a lot of players staying consistent unless they are driven by something other than the accrual of land, OOC clout, or min-maxing variables (though I abuse the use of the min-maxing part). TN_Turkey was actually part of the nomadic phase of the Cingedoz in the late Almaris map that, quite frankly, was bust given we were mainly composed of older semi-retired players who didn't give a damn about that land, clout, or min-maxing but had difficulty navigating the different migrations; so he speaks true about the matter.

 

For the sake of putting my money where my mouth is. If there are enough players interested in a nomadic cultural player-group, let me know. I won't lead it, but I'll certainly write for it and will try to build connections between the smaller existing nomadic groups.

While true that Nomadic Groups in real life certainly had less to lose than a hunkered down civilization, there were still stakes. What I try to point at more firmly is that in real life there's actual consequence to your actions. If you go to war and fail you've lost many precious individuals, someone's son, someone's daughter - perhaps your father. To the bad faith actor none of these elements matter, their characters are a service to a goal - not to roleplay. If they die they simply return with a new name and the same position, to fight another day - towards their goal. While to those of good faith the loss of their character is a large one, months of work and roleplay lost in a conflict - one without worth. To make a conflict worthy of someone losing such time investment, player, nation or otherwise there must be equal stakes. While I wish I could believe that a mechanic like this, if introduced, would not be abused by the bad faith actors. I fear it will and unless you make a overcomplicated system chances are slim it would ever see the light of day. I have myself lead a nomadic group (albeit peaceful). My words speak not towards nomadic groups having no place on the server, but rather as a war group. I strongly believe in the beauty and roleplay potential that nomadic groups can and have brought to the server. Do I think there are ways for Nomadic groups to participate in war in the current system? I certainly think so. Though most of those groups will have a piece of "land" or a location they call "home" that can be conquered. I think to me the question becomes more how would you prevent nomadic groups being able to warclaim nations from being abused? 

While promoting conflict and breaking SoL Roleplay is certainly a part of the greater experience of LoTC. I think it's also fair to say that there is a lot of stake in those situations. In my belief I wager to say that there are very few instances where a nation facing a horde of enemies that have no tangible assets, or any sort of consequence for losing, would be willing to bite this bullet, and why should they? We're all volunteers at the end of the day. It's important to remember that the stakes here are based around respecting the time and investment of the playerbase. While I wish I could be as hopeful as you on the subject I suppose I am more of a realist. While we have our disagreements I have nothing but respect for you, as I have had for many years. I hope you have a good week @Ibn Khaldun and at the end of the day, I am just a retired LoTCer. These are just my thoughts, no more, no less.

Side note: I support raids and pre-planned battles or agreed upon warclaims. My critique is entirely based on and against the idea of nomadic groups (without land of their own) being able to Warclaim anyone wantonly.

For event applications I can and have seen this been done before, may these events be player - or ST made. When it comes to sort of "Group" vs "Group" warfare it just dies in the womb due to griefers and abusers. I think the most important thing to consider first and foremost is how you yourself would abuse something. Though obviously it shouldn't stop us from creating good content, there's some mindfulness that needs to exist. I think unfortunately this idea is one of those that gets filed away in the cabinet under "Good on paper but not in practice". In the real world there's actual consequence if a nomadic group fails in their conquest. While on LoTC there's no real way for us to not make it a broken war / pvp fueled loophole that can easily be abused, bar making nomadic groups no fun. I think the way we meassure investment on LoTC that makes you worthy of participating in war also excludes groups that has nothing to lose. Likewise it makes me ask the question, how would a nation go about going to war with a nomadic group? What benefit would there be?

There's been a few nomadic groups on LoTC and while they can't declare warclaims it seemingly fulfilled the enjoyment most of them were looking for.

Anyway, always interesting to see these topics and just as interesting to theorize. This is just my two cents and obviously I'm not the fun police by any means. I hope you have a good week @Javert.

13 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Liridona Amador beams with pride! She is SO proud of her eldest son. "ERIK, LOOK!" She called to her husband. "OUR SON HAS BEEN MADE VE HEIR OF VYR HOUSE!"

Erik Colborn sticks his head out of a bush. "OH GUDI GUD! NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD SEE THE DAY!!!" He then quickly escaped before he became a real father.

(Always a joy to see your lore take physical form. I'm greatful to CopOwl and everyone else who speaks to me, consults me and writes this into reality. I look forward to the many other pieces we'll be putting forward.)

r

"Oh, my sweet Elia is all grown. I remember when she was just a-" The elderly Adrian Colborn went into a fit of coughs that drew up blood, staining his 'kerchief. Though his smile remained his face was awfully pale. While his aged mind couldn't grasp things for long, he seemed to eye the 'Bethlehen' section. His interest kept for a few times as though something seemed wrong. When he looked up at the banner of Bethlenen hung not too far away. He could have sworn... ah well. Adrian's thoughts were quick to stop as he fell back asleep, parchment staining with drool. Though for once he had a sweet dream about his accomplished grandchild, who he saw as his own daughter.

"May they both support each other and bare the weight of the crown." Erik spoke to himself with a smile while hearing the announcement.

Meme Questions

1. When did you have your greatest gremlin moment?

2. When is your villain arc starting? (oh shit it has already started hasn't it?)

3. Thoughts on druidic spies?

Serious Questions

1. If you were to mention one strange addiction you have, what would it be? (can't say LoTC or RPing)

2. If there is one thing you could have done differently on LoTC, what would it be and why?

3. What's your top 10 favourite drinks? Alcohol & non-alcoholic.

4. Do you believe in ghosts? What's the reason for your answer?

5. Any secret talent you'd like to share with the class? : )

"Baldrum the Sworn, now that's a moniker." Erik hummed and could only hope he'd recieve a moniker himself one day.

The old yet very fashionable Adrian Colborn shed tears of joy for the expression of fashion and culture.

Erik Edvard Colborn had a long talk with both his parents after realizing the childhood friend of his brother had died. Having been confronted with mortality for the first time, he offered prayers to the daughter and parents alike. While he didn't know her himself any future paragon of the Kongzem lost was a true loss to her people. "Perhaps I should talk to Viktor... my eagles and his falcons could have a hunt as we once suggested. Then again, he'll need some time to come to terms with all of this."

"Fadir, fadir! What's the meaning of all of this?" A young Erik Edvard tugged at his father's ( @tcs_tonsils_ ) clothes in worry.

What do you think LoTC has done for you over the last two years? What was your best experience on LoTC and why? Do you think you would still join LoTC knowing what you do now, if you could go back in time?

Erik Edvard Colborn looked up at his father as he chuckled having taken the missive right out of his young boy's hands. "Fadir... brodir Carolus having that thing glued to him was rather funny. We should ask Aleksandra where we can buy another one, pranking brodir sounds like a good time." Perhaps having seen his older brother made by someone younger than him sparked a certain urge in the Colborn.

Adrian Erik Colborn was one to always support the historical integrity of the realm, speaking with great approval. "Truly, its about time we fashioned forward facing history. I commend the Deputy Palatine for his work."

"My kusins birthday? Mik will. . . have to find a gift." Erik started worrying as he wasn't certain what they'd like.

"Valyris is hard at work as always. I am glad we have the time to flourish our culture amongst the stars, it is only right. Let's hope for a bright future for our people." Indris said as he read the contents in his study, on his desk lay open a large book of his own - worthy of publishing.

The old and senile Adrian Erik Colborn had decided to venture to Vienne, or rather what he remembered to be its general location. His mind not being what it once was he'd entirely forgotten the fall of Oren. Perhaps by chance, perhaps by fate, or by accident, he wandered into the surroundings of Petra, noticing Charlotte and Renilde as he journeyed. 

"Oh, the young are so spirited nowadays. . ." He stopped for a while only to realize he was lost. With some shame he walked back to where he faintly remembered he'd seen Charlotte, asking for directions. It took him getting lost three more times to find his way back home, but he was still unaware of the war to come - nor its origins.

This is the kind of thing I have always not only supported but hoped the server would adopt, and flourish for future detail and depth. I will do my best to learn all of this and get involved, if you get a discord going hit me up, I will be down. To make the server better we all have to try our best and find future avenues of improvement.

I wish you the best and a good life. Hopefully we get to finish the Witcher sometime (even though the TV Series is kind of going downhill atm 😬)

Adrian Erik Colborn sheds a tear of not only pride but just at the cheer dedication and appreciation his descendants showed towards their culture.

Adrian smiles Colbornly, standing proudly with his kin!