Alan

first

Aye, the introductory message behind this is rather spot on. For the past few months I've been utilizing the terms "mechanical" and "emote" fighting which take the place of "PvP" and "RP" fighting, respectively, whenever I'm writing a post outlining the differences between the two. However, more often than not we use the terms PvP and RP fighting to falsely represent their respective styles simply because that is what people are used to calling them, and sometimes understanding is more important than accuracy. Both styles, whether mechanical or emote, involve fighting between two or more players (AKA player vs player AKA PvP), and both involve keeping in character so the fight makes sense (AKA RP). I think the players do a rather good job of pointing this out themselves though, especially when arguments pushing for "RP" default arise when players say "This is an RP server so we shouldn't cater to PvPers, we need RP default!", since as mentioned above mechanical fighters still RP and emote fighting is no more RP than mechanical fighting.

I apologize, I was told that this was how you wanted the organization to be. No worries, if you would like to change the current set up mentioned in the OP feel free to contact me (on skype or on the forums) and I'll fix any issues. However, do keep in mind that we're still sticking to the maximum of 3 subforums, so be sure to choose which ones you want wisely. A) It's the "Elven Roleplay" forum, not the "Nation of Elves" forum. It has nothing to do with a nation, it has to do with the race itself, hence the name. As you can tell by the subforums, races that have dominant nations utilize them as subforums (IE "High Elves of Haelun'or" under Elves or "Third Empire of Oren" under Humans). Thus, as mentioned, Snow Elves can use the main forum. B) I'm getting incredibly tired of this attitude that I am solely responsible for these changes. For one, I'm not even the one who came up with the policy of 3 subforums chosen by the Nation Leader themselves, nor was I the one who contacted the Nation Leaders asking what subforums they wanted. I'm merely the one that posts these updates, but don't assume that means that I am the brains behind them. I'm just the messenger here. C) Your unneeded attitude, and more importantly your almost mocking reference to my number IRL (#9 is my soccer/football number, for those of you that don't understand) when I have no idea who you are, is the sort of thing that will get you banned. That was an incredibly foolish remark to make, and next time you won't be let off easy.

Indeed, hence why the snow elves can use the main Elven forum.

Sup everyone, Not too long ago, the GMs and Admins came to a decision regarding the organization of the subforums within the Roleplay forum. To make things simple and allow Nation Leader's to have what they want in their own respective race's forum, we decided that each Nation Leader would be given the choice in a maximum of three subforums to have within their main racial forum. As of this moment, all Nation Leaders have been talked to with the exception of the Orcs', as they apparently do not have a Nation Leader at the moment to talk to. Now that everything is said and done, the roleplay forum will look like this: Character Profiles Human Roleplay The Third Empire of Oren Principality of Raev Imperial Military Elven Roleplay High Elven Roleplay Wood Elven Roleplay Dark Elven Roleplay Dwarven Roleplay Dwarven Clans Holds and Settlements Guilds of Urguan Orcish Roleplay *(May be subject to change in the near future) Orcish Clans Shamans Kharajyr Roleplay Applications Halfling Roleplay Thus, the following changes were made (color coded for understanding it at a glance): Principality of Raev was added under The Third Empire of Oren under Human Roleplay Imperial Military was added under Human Roleplay Lordship of Adunia will be removed from Human Roleplay Laws and Legislation of Oren will be removed from The Third Empire of Oren under Human Roleplay The Church of the True Faith will be removed from The Third Empire of Oren under Human Roleplay Wood Elven Roleplay was added under Elven Roleplay Dark Elven Roleplay was added under Elven Roleplay Princedom of Fenn will be removed from Elven Roleplay Guilds of Urguan was added under Dwarven Roleplay All subforums that will be removed are being left where they are for the next week, after which they will be removed. If there are any topics within those subforums that should be moved, contact a Forum Moderator so that they can move them to the appropriate subforum. If topics are remaining in the subforums after a week when they are removed, they will be moved to the Great Library Archive. Thank you Nation Leaders for cooperating with us, and happy roleplaying everyone :)

Not a bad idea Ski, that's definitely something we can consider as an alternative.

I agree that a protagonist is not needed, strictly speaking, but I believe one besides the players themselves would be a great addition to the server. Here are some things I mentioned in the skype chat when we were discussing the pros and cons of having any protagonist in the first place: "I think we definitely should have a protag, because having one that incorporates players gives people a goal to set out for as well as a body to look up to, as was the case with the Ascended. Do I think we need another carbon copy of the Ascended or the Golden Lance? No, but we should have a strong protagonist nonetheless. Having just antag vs players has been proven to be foolhardy." "With the Scourge the players essentially were the protagonist. The Golden Lance was so obsolete and unnoticed (even in the final closing posts of the Scourge, players said "wait wtf is the GL?") that they had little to no effect on the conflict other than what was written in. The Golden Lance doesn't count as part of the good vs. evil. They were so much in the background, they were so underused and disregarded, it was basically a player vs. evil conflict." "In my opinion I think a protagonist would be a good addition for LotC. With just an antagonist, you have players that don't want to just be players that set goals for themselves to do something to get recognized and taken into the antag. That's how it was in Aegis with the Undead, that's how it was in Anthos with the Scourge. However, it's only leaving those that want to transcend being a common player with only one option; evil. Take a look at our community and you'll find that too many people want to be the hero or the villain, something important instead of the god forsaken idea of being normal (*gasps*). Though we don't look highly on this, we'll never be rid of it, so why not give the option for these people to set a goal for themselves to do something good and get inducted into the protag? Maybe some with the hero/villain syndrome could become part of the larger conflict while those that actually prefer common day-to-day RP would be left to themselves." "I also get this nagging feeling that we need something that is black and white good vs evil to set the stage for conflict, rather than descending further into the murky gray and brown medieval esque conflict that seems to be rather one-sided on the enjoyment level." PS- Do notice that I did not say the Ascended were successful, I said they were the most successful of the protagonists we've had so far. Given that we haven't really succeeded at delivering a good and proper protagonist yet, this isn't saying much.

Heyo amigos So this time I come to you guys with some feedback for a little brainstorming I’ve been doing with Urasept and the LMs regarding some foundational ideas behind a possible protagonist we could see in 4.0. Just to clear any misconceptions right off the bat, there WILL be an antagonist in 4.0 even if it is not immediately present, though whether or not there is a protagonist is up for debate. Due to past attempts and resulting failures at a protagonist, we are ensuring that this time we are prepared to do it right, hence why I am here to propose our ideas and gather feedback from you guys. I will not be going into the details of this possible protagonist, such as what its purpose is or how it will come to be or even what powers it will have (IF it will have any, which it might not depending on feedback), but rather I will be sharing its foundation based on our ideas of how to make it the most enjoyable for the players. The first item of our brainstorming was how to make a potential protagonist exist without allowing room for elitism to grow, as was the case in past attempts (including the Ascended which was more or less regarded as our most successful protag so far). We explored the roots of elitism to solve this problem, and we agreed that it mainly stemmed from players thinking they’ve earned the right to be seen as “better” than everyone else. For this reason, we decided to focus on the initiation process of the protagonist (which WILL be made up of mostly players if we have one). Rather than having the protagonist be invitation only, where only those who show certain qualities are invited to join, we decided to do it in a way that is parallel to many existing guilds and organizations. Anyone and everyone can join, but to do so they must approach a higher up within the protagonist (exactly like asking an Archdruid to join the Druidic Order, or asking a Captain or other officer to join the Oren military), after which they have to complete a trial. This trial would not be something that only certain people can pass, but rather one that is based on commitment to joining. We believe that, under this system, protagonist players would be less inclined to feel “better” than others since everyone would have the ability to get to their position. We next considered something more vital to the success and survival of the protagonist; reaching out to all styles of RP and thus all players, rather than just a select style only a handful of people would enjoy. First, we decided on four general categories that all players can be classified as (though maybe they can be in multiple). These categories are Peaceful Roleplayers, who prefer mundane, day-to-day activity roleplay and chatting with others the most; Conflict Roleplayers, who prefer fighting and battles the most whether via emotes or mechanics; Adventure Roleplayers, who prefer to explore and experience all aspects of LotC the most through wandering the world and participating in various activities; and Spontaneous Roleplayers, who just do whatever the heck they feel like doing in response to whatever the heck happens to happen to them. Afterwards, we arrived at a method to potentially appeal to all of these audiences, a method that we’ve already used many times and is pretty common all across the board, and that would be specializing roles within the protagonist itself. Without giving too much away, a possible idea was three distinct primary roles that one could server within the protagonist, those roles being the following: Protector - Those who would (as the name implies) protect the descendants, whether through actual fighting of the antagonist or through helping set up defenses or even by helping descendants evacuate a location that will be attacked Healer - Those who would mainly serve to heal the descendants, whether literally through magic, medicine or herbalism, or by simply helping communities rebuild and renew after an antagonist intervention Seeker - Those would would seek out incognito antagonists and weed them out, or perhaps spy on them directly to discover their next moves These roles are admittedly pretty generic, but they work and we believe that these roles allow for anyone on the server regardless of style to fit in somehow, and more importantly anyone on the server can enjoy the RP brought on by these distinct styles. We discussed a lot more than just these two points, but most of it was the gritty details that we will not publicly release until later on if we do end up following this route for a protagonist. For now, I’d like to know what you guys think so far. It’s not much to go on, but if we’re missing some key things to consider we’d like to know them before getting too deep into the planning stages. Do you think these ideas, if acted upon correctly, will lead to a protagonist that could actually be enjoyable? We’d also like to hear any and all suggestions you guys have at this point relating to any aspect of a protagonist, so be sure to leave your feedback! Thanks for reading :) PS - This thread is about the protagonist, so any comments that derail the conversation to a point that it focuses on the antagonist will be hidden.

Jeez guys, I think he gets it already. Our server is indeed held together by duct tape and runs on potatoes!

It's not a contradiction, rather it's an exemption in nature akin to an asterisk following a statement.

I beg to differ.

1) Only officially recognized nations were chosen. This would be Elves (hence Haelun'or, Kharajyr just happen to be included), Dwarves (hence Kal'Arkon, Alras also just happens to be included), Halflings, Orcs and Humans. The exception to this is the Humans, as they are divided rather distinctly into two major cities of substantial numbers, that being Vekaro and Kaldonia. 2) It's exactly the thing that turns those regions into safe havens, thus giving people who dislike PvP or conflict altogether a way to escape it. 3) If they don't want it, they don't have to have it; this is explained in the original post. We don't force the flag on the listed regions, we merely offer them the flag which they can choose to accept or deny. As for your edit, the changes have already been made. Refer to reply #191 in this thread, or if you prefer you can check the main posts again which has since been updated.

Main post updated.

We didn't remove the timeframe. "It now stands as of this moment that a settlement can only be raided once per day, regardless of who is attacking them".

Alright, so as I mentioned exactly 104 responses ago, it is rather apparent that a few key elements regarding these changes were left unconsidered. After discussing all of the community’s feedback, we are amending the initial post with the following: First off, after countless players on both sides of the PvP/RP fighting debate (including raiders themselves) expressed discontent with the lack of any substantial restrictions on raids, we are bringing them back albeit slightly modified. It now stands as of this moment that a settlement can only be raided once per day, regardless of who is attacking them. Additionally, raids ON (rather than BY) officially recognized nations can be comprised of 8 members, while raids on anyone else can only be comprised of 4 members. Second of all, I don’t know how it happened, but admittedly smaller communities not large enough to warrant a safe zone were overlooked in the making of this thread. Thus, after consideration and feedback, we have come up with what we believe is a fair solution. Those listed in the OP as worthy of a no PvP flag (minus Lin’ame, which I wasn’t aware was under Haelun’or) are also being offered the option of build protection. With that being said, those not on the list can receive build protection (NOT no PvP flags) if they pay minas for it. Yes, some might say that this is a weird solution, but it’s better than allowing anyone protection as well as only allowing those on the list protection. The amount paid is reflected in the values below (note: region sizes are based on GM approximations, we’re not gunna sit and count each block or anything). Smaller than 10x10 (or 100 blocks) = 10,000 minas. Between 10x10 and 25x25 (or 100 and 625 blocks) = 40,000 minas. Between 25x25 and 50x50 (or 625 and 2500 blocks) = 100,000 minas. Between 50x50 and 80x80 (or 2500 and 6400 blocks) = 200,000 minas. Larger than 80x80 (or 6400 blocks) = Nothing, we won't make regions larger than this ^ So essentially charters without the need for signatures. Lastly, regarding the option of no PvP for settlements on the list, we are taking the time now to mention a catch. To prevent a protected settlement with no PvP enabled from attacking and raiding others with no threat of retaliation, the condition for having no PvP enabled is that the settlement in question is not allowed to raid or attack anyone, though matters of self-defense* are an exception. Essentially, if you don't want other people attacking you, don't attack other people. Should a settlement with no PvP enabled attack another settlement, their flag will be removed for one week. *Self-defense refers to scenarios where a region under the domain of the settlement in question that doesn’t have no PvP enabled is raided or attacked. This only applies to raids and attacks, however, so it is not justified to raid or attack another settlement if a single individual of that settlement causes a commotion within your boundaries. Self-defense is also regarded as “hit for a hit, eye for an eye”, so it is not justified raid a settlement multiple times if they raided you once, just like killing someone who swings a punch at you in a brawl is not considered self-defense. As a final note, if something wasn't mentioned in this update, it was not changed. Also, I apologize for any frustration this post caused, but let this update be a lesson learned; believe it or not, we DO listen to the community and we ARE willing to make changes if a good enough case is made. All of the massive drama, insulting, yelling and anger that occurred in the previous replies were COMPLETELY unnecessary, and they did nothing to solve the problem. Kudos to all of you that retained your composure and were able to express your issues with the original post maturely and respectfully, as you all are the reason we saw the other points of view. Alan out! EDIT: Almost forgot to mention. If there are more issues with THIS update, we are still no less willing to make changes. If you still have problems with how things stand now, refer to the above paragraph for the proper way to explain those problems to us.

1) You make the mistake of assuming that I alone made this decision because I posted the thread. 2) Actually, we can. Regions offered the no PvP flag don't cover the entire map, in fact they cover less than 5% of it. This means that the remaining 95% of the map is PvP default, while in those select regions it is not since PvP can't happen at all, and those percentages aren't even accounting for the regions that will choose to NOT have a no PvP flag. As for the rest of your post, I will be frank when I say that your dramatic raging attitude alone is why I refuse to respond to it. Next time you want to make a difference, do so maturely and calmly, otherwise you'll achieve nothing. And maybe it's attitudes like this why compromise is impossible. Perhaps you do not belong here, my friend.

To you and everyone else: In other words, the sarcasm and drama is getting a little tiring. We're currently in the midst of a discussion regarding how to best account for the things we overlooked (as mentioned 1000 times by everyone in this thread), so this thread should be updated shortly.

Alright, alrighty people. It's clear that we overlooked some things and further discussion is needed to work out the kinks. We are completely willing to amend our changes and adjust them accordingly, so stop pretending like they are set in stone as they are and it's the end of the world. Nonconstructive criticism and threats to ignore the changes aren't helping anyone.

You rebel.

Hey guys, Today, we bring to you an arguably huge and massively game-changing reworking of the rules to Lord of the Craft. Before I get into it, I’d just like to warn you all now; there will be shouts of joy, there will be tears of anguish, and there might even be a little pissing in holes while laughing. Whatever your reaction to these changes are, be sure to keep an open mind as always, because there is no doubt about it that they are controversial. HUGE UPDATE: P.S. I will be responding to anyone that obviously didn't read the entirety of this post with the condescending wonka meme. Don't say I didn't warn you. :) 1) To kick this session off, we are completely removing the current system of war, which includes any and all rules associated with it. To better understand what exactly we are removing, click here to see the Current War Rules, and click here to see the Update on Raids and Skirmishes, both of which are being removed. In place of this system, we have come up with another that is much more simple, easier to understand, and most importantly prevents the high amounts of OOC drama usually associated with wars and battles. Essentially, this is how it works now: Protected land/regions can no longer be forcefully conquested. The only way a region can now be conquered is if the owner of the region OOCly agrees to the battle or war for its ownership. This prevents larger bodies in a war from destroying the roleplay of smaller parties without them having any way to prevent it. Non-protected land, however, is fair game. To counterbalance the aforementioned change, raiding parties no longer have any restrictions. This means that raids can have any number of participants, and there is no time restriction on how often they can occur. However, before anyone jumps for joy over this or doubles over sobbing, keep in mind that PvP raids are practically useless when attacking protected regions, though RP raids (god forbid) are always an alternative. Although, once again, non-protected land owners might not be so insured. UPDATE: 2) The next topic of discussion directly ties into the changes to the war system. Many of you are probably confused how those two changes apply to the Fringe where there are no regions presently. The answer to this problem is that we are making regions now for major capitals and settlements (listed below), and region owners will have the option of toggling PvP off in their region if they would like to do so. This turns cities with PvP toggled off into “safe zones” from events such as raids or even individual one on one brawls. These regions will still be free build, though, so the only purpose of their existence will be for the PvP flags. With this in mind, raiding parties need to remember that griefing is still disallowed, so destroying a settlement in place of killing its residents will get you banned. Also, as a reminder, it is still against the rules to run into a safe zone region to escape combat you are presently in; this falls under abuse of mechanics in the rules. Anyways, here is the list of settlements that will be offered the option of PvP flags (any protected region will be offered the flag in 4.0): Kaldonia (Humans) Vekaro (Humans) Kal’Arkon (Dwarves + Alras) Haelun’or (Elves + Kharajyr) Krughanistan (Orcs) Ivybend (Halflings) The Nations Leaders of these settlements should modreq to get their region created. UPDATE: 3) Now, onto the last point. After much deliberation, we have decided to return PvP to an absolute default. Many of you will be extremely pleased with this, many of you will want to stab us, but regardless this change was needed to make the other two changes fruitful. This means that we are revoking the majority decision which decides what type of style is used in a fight. In order for it to be an RP fight, EVERYONE must agree to it, otherwise it’s PvP. The exception to this is if the style of fighting is already decided, so if a group of 5 decide on RP fighting and then a single person comes along afterwards and tries enforcing PvP default, they can be told to (kindly) gtfo. Also, should someone lose in an RP fight, they cannot be forced to kill themselves mechanically if they do not want to. With that being said, players may still be killed mechanically within a safe zone without using PvP (via a guard force’s execution apparatus, for example). The reason we are able to push for this now is because of how war and settlement conflict now works, as mentioned in the other paragraphs. In settlements where PvP is toggled off, RP fighting is the only option, and given that RP fighters typically do not involve themselves with conflict oriented RP, they will likely stay in such settlements and not be worried about PvP. On the contrary, those who prefer PvP can PvP to their heart’s content wherever they are able to fight, though they’ll have to shy away from safe zones. Also, as an added side note, it is still against the rules to run from an RP situation; if you wish to run, you must alert the other player as you would if you were initiating PvP. If you are in a safe zone, you must roleplay your attempted escape. UPDATE: Alrighty folks, that’s it! These are all of the changes we have in store for the server as of this moment, so now it’s time to see the effects they have on RP. Before I close off this post, however, I will conclude by saying that all 3 of the topics of change relate to one another with the overall goal of preventing OOC drama while simultaneously experimenting with this system (which, by the way, is the same system that was present in Aegis) before taking it with us to 4.0. Many might have lost a lot from all of this, but they also gained a lot too. RP fighters or even those uninterested in fighting altogether can no longer use numbers to avoid the PvP default nor can they utilize raid restrictions as protection against raiding parties, but in return they now have safe zones where they can RP in peace without any threat of being destroyed or taken over without consent, thus making what they lost meaningless and trivial. PvP fighters and groups can no longer forcefully take over smaller groups or settlements without consent nor can they truly do damage to safe zones, but in return they now have absolute authority over enforcing PvP in battle and are not restricted by war and raid rules, thus allowing their RP to flourish in non-protected zones and even protected zones with PvP not toggled off. Hopefully good things come out of all this, but only time will tell how the community reacts. Thank you all for your time, and I sincerely apologize to anyone that wants to kill us. - The Lord of the Craft Staff

I admire your loyal enthusiasm over our wonderful organization skills Freya, lol. Anyways, to be honest we won't need to organize anything. If the Gifts plugin works properly, everything will be automated according to what you've already claimed in the past. This means if you're a Bedrock VIP and you claimed 2000 minas in the past, upon donating for Aether VIP you'd receive 3000 minas (5000 - 2000) when you claim again. The same goes for Item Packs, hence why they're incremental. If you got a pack with 9 common and 9 regular items, upon donating for Aether VIP you'd receive 9 rare items alone. However, obviously at the time of the plugin's release, no one will have claimed anything whether they've been a VIP for a day or for three years. This means everyone who claims the day it is released will receive everything associated with their tier, so there's no need to worry about current VIPs not getting anything. I also think it's fair to assume that the Gifts plugin will reset when we move to 4.0, that way VIPs don't lose anything. IF we do this, however, we may wait a couple weeks to implement the plugin again to prevent VIPs from getting an unfair advantage over regular players at the start of the map.

And by "anybody" you mean a single person that he is keeping banned for only two more months for ban evading, as it explicitly said would happen in the OP? Of the five appeals he has dealt with, that was the only one he kept banned, while he unbanned the other four (Monstaa, comanderbly, Jspencer10 and NordicGod). The only thing that's "funny" about this situation is all of the ignorant players (I can think of one in particular) who uselessly complain about things that aren't even occurring, and we always get a little chuckle out of it as they never realize that it makes them look worse than they're trying to make us appear.

Sup Fringeans Fish Sticks, If the title doesn't make the content of this announcement obvious enough, an amendment has been made to a staff banning policy regarding pugsying (intentional mass no-RP killing, for those of you who are new around here). After much discussion both on the forums and among the staff, the Administration has come to a unanimous decision; we will no longer blanket permaban pugsiers without exception. Instead, the verdict will be judged based on a case-by-case basis at the discretion of the GM in charge of the ban. This means that details such as motive, attitude, previous warns/bans, behavior after the ban, etc. could mean the difference between a ban of a couple months and a ban of longer than a year. However, this only applies to the FIRST offense; should an unbanned pugsier ever pugsy a second time, they will be truly permabanned. I am not talking the kind of not-so-permaban that people are used to on this server, I am instead referring to a legitimate permanent ban with absolutely no chance of appeal, and anyone under such a sentence that posts an appeal will be ignored and denied without consideration. We believe this is fair given that those people will have already been provided with a chance to change after their first slip up. Another note regarding this change in policy is that pugsiers who ban evaded are not off the hook. Just as always, ban evading using alt accounts will earn you extra time added onto your ban. Though those of you that have pugsied in the past and ban evaded to get around your permabans are no longer truly permanently banned, my suggestion to you all is that you don't even consider making appeals anyways since they'll be denied. If you'd like to know when you can appeal, PM the staff member that banned you and see what you can work out. Lastly, just to prevent any confusion, this post is merely meant to explain a change in policy and nothing more. We are NOT mass unbanning pugsiers, so don't respond complaining that we are doing so. Pugsiers that have been banned for longer than a few months may now appeal, but whether or not their appeal is accepted is up to the staff member handling their appeal. However, to ensure this doesn't just turn into an excuse to say pugsying isn't permabannable when GMs simply deny every pugsy appeal that pops up, I'll mention now that players are as free as ever to PM Admins if they truly believe that the staff member dealing with their appeal is biased or unfit to do so. Thank you all for reading, and hopefully this change sits well with you guys =] - The Lord of the Craft Staff