1 hour ago, kipps said:

the argument for banning prejudice because lotc is escapism is wrong because a lotc is (or should be) a narrative/story-telling medium, not a base escapist fantasy.

This is a pretty valid take.

Honestly, I've flipped on this topic so many times idk where I stand. @Borin's response to me on Page 9 also brought up a key point - if this sort of behaviour is occurring OOC'ly, or players are specifically targeting characters due to homophobic opinions etc, it's absolutely going to result in warnings/bans majority of the time.

I think at the moment I'm moreso considering what sort of direction do we want to take this server in? It has already begun developing into a safer space by banning countless amounts of problematic players permanently, and we are growing more and more adapt at noticing those behavioural patterns and removing them proactively.

Do we want to take it a step further, and turn LotC into a 'safe space'? Or, as @Shorsand said above, can we trust our playerbase to create good-faith RP in the context of homophobia / racism etc. Most races have been racist towards each other since the server began. Where do we draw the line - is racism between races okay, but between subraces not okay? Then where do humans fit into this, considering their cultures are based on IRL cultures? If we ban subrace racism, what happens to the High Elves who are built upon that prejudice?

In my opinion, "We don't crusade against Gays" is not a very valid take. Just because it isn't occurring currently doesn't mean it won't in the future. How would these sorts of extremist groups even foster good-faith RP, when their very purpose is just ruining other players' fun with little reason beyond "I don't like that you're married to another guy/girl, which doesn't actually affect me in any way, but it bothers me to know that". I'm not expecting groups like these to form, but you can't 100% claim they won't.

I am also now going to sleep

Just now, Damnit_Delmar said:

 

Of course, marriage is the ultimate tax write off, therefore marriage = capitalism 

Blessed be

1 minute ago, Damnit_Delmar said:

After reading both sides, I have concluded the following. 

 

Capitalism creates equal opportunity for all, therefore, become a capitalist. 

But can I marry another capitalist?

Just now, satinkira said:

that surprises me since I joined hnor fairly early pre-rozania when I first showed up and I didn't see anything, do you know if it was popularised throughout hnor or if it was just one bad egg

Pretty sure it was just one bad egg. It would've been early-mid Almaris if anything, as I joined the community mid-late Almaris.

1 minute ago, satinkira said:

I'm fairly certain that the SS skins haven't happened at the very least post-Arcas, and the crucifixions were happening in rozania thanks to savoyard crusaders which would have been late 2021 I think

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure I saw one of those skins on a player's name.mc during Almaris. I think it was a military dress uniform that very heavily resembled it.

1 minute ago, argonian said:

This is literally any racism ever. Aryans weren't the master race because they had blonde hair and blue eyes, but such an appearance was seen to an indicator of a pure Aryan ancestry.

 

"High Elves aren't a NS-LARP dude. We just coincidentally assess pure ancestry based on the exact same characteristics and spent years wearing SS skins."

 

At least you said "blood and mind" and not "blood and soil".

Chill, my guy. I was quite literally just stating what their belief is - not defending it. My current high elf was quite literally a shapeshifting demon before the lore got stripped. She is anything but pure.

I have always held issue with the comparisons to Nazi-ism, and I'm not entirely sure of how the high elf faith even began at the start of the server. I wouldn't be surprised if it had roots in the same mindset. I also wasn't part of their community when those skins were worn, and would have held issue with that and spoke out if I was present during that time. I'm not your enemy, my guy.

I think a large issue w the Haelun'or Nation is how involved old-heads still are in it, to my knowledge. They have a very firm grip on the direction the Nation is led, and are included in private chats in the discord allegedly (I have been told this by Players previously in those chats). I have also been told in the past when my character was in the running for a Council Position in H'nor that the large reason she didn't get it was because those leaders + old players were worried that I, as a player, would not aid them in the vision they have for the Nation. Again, I don't know the truth of these claims, but I had a fairly reliable source.

If that last paragraph is largely true, I unfortunately don't think Haelun'or will be capable of change to minimise those comparisons until it is properly handed over to a new generation. People are too attached.

7 minutes ago, satinkira said:

As for high elves, well, I'd personally be in favour of Haelun'or being banned from using acid pits to burn people alive, but they don't really do that anymore. Their 'purity' being based around skin colour and hair isn't really true from my experience - I've only seen that sort of thing from the Bronze Band (my character was once slipped a 'vanity' potion that turned them into the ideal form of perfect beauty. The toga elf pmd me saying blond hair, pale skin and blue eyes), which in my opinion is really really odd.

Can confirm, High Elf 'purity' has never been about their physical appearance and traits. Their purity is specifically of the blood and mind. The only reason they make note of physical appearances is because it's the easiest way to determine if someone comes from an 'unpure bloodline', aka have non high elf blood in them. There have definitely been more zealous characters who care about their physical traits, but the belief itself is of the blood and mind.

 

11 minutes ago, Borin said:

We don't.

Read what me and james said and ignore Sashimi. The issue is MARRIAGE, and OUT OF MARRIAGE RELATIONS. There are NO ANTI-GAY DEATH SQUADS. It only became a thing recently because Nectorist made a post to debate scripture, then some NLs made a post, and people started going ape on the forums. It's literally not been a big issue IRP for ages. People do stuff privately and unless it's uncovered and it's a big thing bc they're married, it's literally just a slap on the wrist like a man and woman having a thing outside of marriage. lol. Good lordy this debate is stupid and leans on the fictional idea of Canonists lynching gays or something heinous like that.

The problem is morons saying stupid shit on the forums influenced by OOC views, and should keep their bloody mouths shut. It's the battle of the self-inserts. The fact of the matter is on the ground, on the actual server, it's basically a non-issue. Just no marriage, for the reasons james alluded to.

It's a non-issue. This shouldn't even be an OOC debate. It's an IRP one in the Church based on scripture.

My current opinion is that sexuality should just not belong in RP religions. It is quite possibly the easiest solution for all of this, and does permit RP conflict by having characters scour through the scrolls for mention of such an opposition, as you mentioned. However - I also hold concern with the outcry of the necessity of that form of RP at all. If players feel like their characters are being targeted or prosecuted due to their character's identity, then that shouldn't be allowed. I understand it may not be happening currently, but that does not mean it won't happen in the future.

2 minutes ago, Laeonathan said:

That is Haelunorian propaganda, Twinny is a peaceful winemaking person! (she also tried to KILL azrdramoth)

Didn't she get banned for toxicity or something

10 minutes ago, Franczhiz said:

This seems like disrespect, although I do not know whether @Amayonnaisetried to make an irl comparison to religion and its doctrines but it certainly seems disrespectful if the aforementioned was the case

Apologies, no.
I will not deny my feathers are getting a little ruffled, but I hold no ill-will towards you - I actually quite enjoy debating. I am solely discussing IRP religions currently - as IRL religions should have absolutely no weight on RP aside from perhaps being the inspiration for an IRP religion.

My argument is primarily this:
You are roleplaying on a server in which players are given full opportunities to create their own magics, religions, and cultures. I do not understand why sexuality is a necessary topic to be included in your fantasy religion. Canonism as a whole is quite extensive and interesting, and to stand your ground and argue against a rule change over something as simple as relatively privately conducted romance rp is, to me, the equivalent of minimising this fantasy religion to nothing more than a homophobic agenda. Religions should be more than that. Why would your great and grand GOD care so much about sexuality?

In regards to Moderation action against it - I think this is something that would require a very clear line to be drawn, with distinct examples of what is and is not okay. It is okay to feel uncomfortable with a character of the same sex attempting to flirt etc. It is okay to get defensive or aggressive if they don't leave your character alone - them continuing such RP is creepy enough alone for mod action. It is not okay to persecute their character for their sexuality.

Warnings should be permitted first, before any ban even takes place. Only repeat offenders should receive bans.

3 minutes ago, Franczhiz said:

Funny how you meant this for Canondom only but simultaneaously proved my point about people of the LGBTQ disrespecting religion and its doctrines.

I'm actually reeling that you're not understanding my point. Why does your fantasy religion, which you can shape and mould in any way you would like it to, care so much about characters' sexuality and private affairs?

Mind your own gd business my brother. You're wasting hours of your day concerning yourself with romance rp. Stop minimising your religion to sexuality and grow it beyond such minor mortal affairs.

7 minutes ago, Franczhiz said:

But at this point its just fighting for a bunch of religious legislation on a mineman server which is of no use to the irl rights of your community at all.

LGBTQ+ rights shouldn't have anything to do with religion at all. Why are laws and religious doctrines permitted to dictate accepted sexualities? Shit is wack.

Canonism is far more than getting salty at two dudes kissing. You have Holy Scrolls, Saints, all sorts of other very neat shit. I've never gotten into Canonism on this server, and I don't know how much it replicates or is similar to IRL religions, but it always appeared to be somewhat creative in its own form. Why does sexuality have to be part of it at all? You guys are spending too much time both IRP and OOC worrying about what goes on behind closed doors, and yet the elves are the weird ones :/

2 minutes ago, Franczhiz said:

Don't think you have heard of the acid pits used by elves to kill personas who are not of pureblood... seems oddly familiar.

As far as I am aware, the current rendition of high elves under Samler doesn't do this very often. They don't like producing pointless RP that wastes someones time, unless the target is quite literally attempting to assassinate or otherwise excessively harm/kill their citizens etc.

1 hour ago, argonian said:

high elves are literally allowed to call dark elves the n-word and LARP as nazis (it's ok though; they accept uncle toms?)

Where is this coming from? I was part of Haelunor from the mid to end of last map through to the start of this map, and didn't once see any sort of RP regarding dark elves or those sorts of slurs both IRP and in the Discord chats I had access to. If anything, Helves have more of an issue with Wood Elves due to how nature-loving and grubby they perceive them to be. If you have genuine proof/evidence of this taking place, it is worthwhile reporting because I highly doubt it would get brushed off. I'm not going to outright disbelieve you, but I would absolutely take care when throwing accusations like that out.

 

1 hour ago, argonian said:

but if canonism doesn't have any gay genderfluid half-orc saints, the mods NEED to intervene.

Absolutely wild exaggeration of what is being requested.

 

1 hour ago, argonian said:

So let's be honest about the desired outcome here: 21st century irreligiosity, 21st century standards on human rights/moral norms, but no you cannot use 14th century cannons how dare you (unless it's powered by magic)

Final take - This is a medieval fantasy server in which we literally publish our own lore and create our own magics. Why can't we create our own culture and version of history? Why must we follow history so accurately that we are forced to have a Canonist religion unaccepting of same-sex marriages etc.? This is literally a fantasy server, be more creative.

In my last comment on a thread regarding this topic, I made the argument that there are other nations you can RP in, and a line has to be drawn on how far you can go w/ homophobia etc. This thread has altered that opinion. I have to agree with the vast majority - if it is affecting and troubling players to that extent, while giving the 'attackers' some strange sense of euphoria to bully or even just troll another player, then remove it. Characters can be uncomfortable with the idea, sure. It'd be the same as a lesbian feeling uncomfortable with a straight male trying to romance her in some form. But genuine prejudice and attacks are unnecessary.

I don't understand how two gay elves can walk into a human city like Haense and no one bats an eye because "it's the elven way to do things", but they can't fathom two humans sharing a similar love.

Also - I am sorry for picking apart only your comment. I read through snippets here and there, but your comment summarised a lot of what was being said on your side of the debate. My response on that final quote is directed at everyone, not solely you.

An elfess with peculiar eyes would sigh at the missive, still struggling to locate the aforementioned city.

An aged Paladin would hear of the news, and pray that the next Pontiff permits her a license to heal in Aaun.

Oathsworn of the Sun

-= Creation of the Seed =-

The Aurë’naerï are a Seed that follow the Old Aspectist Rites, revering the Mother and Father of the Eternal Forest as opposed to the Mani of the Wild Faith. Founded in the year 1963 FA | 167 SA by the Sun Druid Avyndriel Vaeloryïs, the Aurë’naerï primarily serve their kin through scribing tomes and historical annals, providing education on the Aspects, and serving Malin’s children as needed.

Matrons of the Forest

The Matrons are the two individuals whose teachings guided and inspired the first Matriarch, Avyndriel, in the creation of the Aurë’naerï. These former Druii now serve the Aspects in the Eternal Forest, with only their memory and writings remaining in the material world. The Matrons are not figures to be revered within the Seed, but instead acknowledged as cultural Elders who guided Avyndriel upon her path resulting in the creation of the Aurë’naerï.

Awaiti of Emerald

Renn of Wisteria

-= Aurë’naerï Philosophy =-

The Aurë’naerï are free to follow any philosophy they seek, or even none at all, though the Seed itself closely follows the ideals and morals of the Ways of Emerald and the Mother. Thus, most members of the Aurë’naerï follow one of these two sects.

Way of Emerald

Indomitable Will | Great Courage | Emotional Resilience | Foresight

Way of the Mother

Societal Balance | Loyalty & Duty | Universal Respect | Purity & Healing

-= Aurë’naerï Principles =-

Loyalty
To remain faithful to Seed and kin.
 

Resilience
To rise as the Sun does, regardless of how many times it sets.
 

Devotion
To acknowledge the Aspects’ as the true Deities of the Forest, and revere them above all others.
 

Knowledge
To scribe and recite all knowledge, ensuring all that are lost are never forgotten.
 

Patience
To retain control without emotional restraint.
 

-= Seed Tenets =-

I. Aurë’naerï have sworn an oath to uphold the Aspects’ Will, protect and educate the Children of Malin, and to scribe knowledge for the libraries of Mali.
 

i. To uphold the Aspects’ Will is to retain the balance of nature. Aurë’naerï must never forget that the Aspects’ reside above all others in the Eternal Forest. It is them who must be revered foremost, though Aurë’naerï are free to worship Mani or other Aenguls as well.
 

ii. Conflicts between the Children of Malin are natural, as all siblings fight. Aurë’naerï are permitted to serve those they have sworn fealty to, but must never permit such conflict to come between Seed Members.
 

iii. Recording and reciting all knowledge is paramount to ensuring the lost are never forgotten, and the past is never repeated. A Mali that lives a millenia is not expected to remember every breath. We must scribe to ensure all is never lost.

II. The Aurë’naerï are devout Oathsworn, having passed trials and earnt their Ilmyumiers. As such, the name “Aurë’naerï” may not be inherited through marriage or birth.
 

i. Any descendant may become Aurë’naerï, though they will remain oathsworn to Malin’s Children regardless.
 

ii. A descendant belonging to another Seed may also join the Aurë’naerï, as long as the tenets are adhered to. The Aurë’naerï will encourage loyalty to both Seeds, as per their Principles.

III. To associate with darkspawn, without just cause, or possess any form of corrupt Magicks is to break one’s Oath and betray the Will of the Aspects.
 

i. Justification of one’s crime of association will be judged by the entirety of the Seed, requiring a majority vote.

-= Ilmyumier & Appearance =-

Ilmyumier & Markings

The Aurë’naerï Ilmyumier is a very simple golden sun inked in the location of the Aurë’naerï’s choosing. The most common locations for this ilmyumier are the forehead, neck, or shoulders. It may only be granted by an Elder of the Aurë’naerï, or the Parriarch themselves, upon the completion of the Initiate Trials.

Other sun-themed imagery may be added around this ilmyumier to create a larger image, such as a full sleeve upon the arm or leg. Bardmancy is also often utilised to make the ilmyumier glow akin to the sun.
 

Clothing & Accessories

The Aurë’naerï often don their own individual styles and outfits, though during formal events may choose to represent their Seed more directly. Iconography representing the Aspects and Sun are typically most prominent, in the form of fabric colours, embroidery, and headdresses.

Symbolism relating to their selected Way, such as Emerald or the Mother, may also be present in a subtle form. More devout Aurë’naerï may even go as far as to paint their skin with similar designs, and weave flora and jewels through braids within their hair.

-= Aurë’naerï Household =-

Seed Echelons

Seed Parriarch

The Aurë’naerï Seed is led by the Parriarch; an Elder selected through a high majority vote by all members of the Seed. This Parriarch is responsible for approving the completion of all Initiate trials, handling conflict both within and regarding the Seed, and representing the Seed in all formal affairs. The Parriarch must never act alone, and must always seek the council of their kin.

The First Seed Parriarch was Avyndriel Vaeloryïs, the original founder of the Seed. 

Elders

Elders of the Aurë’naerï are those who have been part of the Seed for a notable length of time, have demonstrated their application of the Seeds’ Principles in all facets of life, and have upheld the tenets consistently. These Aurë’naerï are honoured with the rank of ‘Elder’, and are permitted to conduct trials for Initiates to join the Seed.

Aurë’naerï

All who have been granted the name of Aurë’naerï have completed their trials and sworn their oath. All Aurë’naerï are equal, bar the Parriarch themself, though even the Parriarch is not permitted to act alone without seeking council first. 

Architecture & Lifestyle

While the Aurë’naerï Seed lacks a Patron Mani, the members themselves hold a close affinity with animals due to their Aspectist culture. Within the primary homestead itself, where the Parriarch resides, only small creatures are permitted within - and often of a more feline nature. This tradition began due to Avyndriel herself favouring her ginger cat Ser Augustus, and requiring all larger creatures to remain outside to cater towards the feline’s sensitive nature.

The homestead itself is often constructed with high ceilings and open, spacious balconies. The walls are almost entirely shelved and filled with a variety of tomes, relics, and other curious items. The Aurë’naerï home is typically compared to some form of museum due to its contents, with murals built into walls depicting historical events overlooking lounges prepared for tea and entertaining. The members’ rooms are always tucked away beneath the main halls, allowing the home to be relatively open for visitors and exploration.

-= Initiate Trials =-

Trial of Devotion

The first trial of the Aurë’naerï is a discussion to assess their intent and reasoning for seeking the Seed, and their level of knowledge on the Aspectist faith and Ways of Emerald and the Mother. The Initiate is given a book to scribe notes on the conversation held, and tasked with studying the Aspects further if their knowledge is found lacking. 

Trial of Knowledge

The Aurë’naerï are scholars and scribes, adding to the libraries of Mali to ensure knowledge is spread, and histories are not forgotten. For this trial, the Initiate must write a sizeable tome of twenty pages or more, on a topic that has not already been covered in great detail. They must present this tome to the Elder residing over their trials, and then donate direct copies to all libraries of Malin’s kin.

Trial of Loyalty

The Final Trial of the Aurë’naerï is to demonstrate their loyalty to their future kin by protecting and defending them against all threats. The Initiate must embark on a short journey with an Aurë’naerï, facing some form of threat to their home and culture, be it an encroaching predator, severely scarred and blighted land, or some other great threat. The Elder residing over their trials must approve of the severity of their task.

-= Aurë’naerï Rites =-

Cerridwen’s Harvest

Oath of Matrimony

Setting of a Sun

Artist: Morgan Rogers

Author: Amayonnaise

Why was my art used on this post without my permission? It doesn't even show an Ilmyumier on it, so it doesn't make any sense? I would have provided art of an actual ilmyumier at the time if you had asked, so I am certain I did not give permission.

Hey Guys! I'm currently experiencing a lot of power outages and no internet, which is halting my progress. I can't work on sketches because my computer gets randomly shut off every hour or so without warning, and this has been ongoing for a whole day now.

I'm going to try and convert my sai files to CSP so I can work on my tablet instead, but I have fallen a bit behind as a result of the outages :/

Bing Bang Bong I have a full progress tracking table on the original post now!

Updates -

I have not yet begun these as my christmas period at work is still ongoing, and my schedule is quite hectic!!

Once the New Year has passed, I will be hopping on these immediately and adding a "Progress" section to the original post so you can keep track of where I'm at!

Currently I am just finalising references and clarifications to make sure I can get going IMMEDIATELY once my work finally releases me from the hellish torment that is bartending late nights for people on holidays :(

⋅⊰ ∙ ∘༓ ∙ Sketches for Mina ∙ ༓∘ ∙ ⊱⋅

Discord | .amayonnaise.

I am no longer accepting requests!

- Examples -

⋅⊰ ∙ Info ∙ ⊱⋅

-Sketch Progress in Spoiler-

• There is a limit of 20 requests (20 players, not 20 characters!)
   
• Each character will cost 500 mina (payment due upon completion)
   
• You can request multiple characters (either in the same art or separate) - You only need to comment once!
   
• Sketches will be at most a halfbody with flat grayscale shading
   
• Progress updates will be sent through Discord. Final images will be uploaded to an Imgur Album.
   
• You will receive both the grayscale sketch + a transparent lineart sketch to colour in however you'd like! I only request that my signature remains on the art with credit given to the original sketch!

Please note that I reserve the right to decline any request.

Requests will only be declined if I am either uncomfortable with the request itself, or uncomfortable interacting with any individuals.

If you are unsure if your request will be denied, feel free to reach out to me on Discord to discuss first!

MC Name: Amayonnaise

RP Name: Avyndriel Vaeloryïs

Persona ID: 21173

---
 

2 hours ago, Laeonathan said:

They're actively reusing it on their build server individually. 

The current Talar'nor on the main LotC Server has not been broken down to ruins as has been done in the past on previous maps. I'm not sure why, as I've been on hiatus for a little bit due to an IRL move, and only recently returned.

The images in this realm app are purely an example of what the finished product will become, as Candle wrote they are "Examples". I have to agree with @monkeypoacher, once a build is on the server and abandoned, you can't really complain that another group wishes to claim the remains. I would have thought the idea of Druids reclaiming a lost city would simply add to roleplay and not only possibly create new tensions with other cities, but also provide a whole new array of ST Events and Eventlines for the server to partake in.

If the Admins would like to break the region down into ruins before a proper build is begun, I am sure our community would not mind that happening? I cannot speak for the Nevaehlen community, but I am certain a middle ground can easily be found here!

Will be an OOC oversight self-teach, rather than normal MA - Self Teaching Info

All my current students are T4 or T5, so they shouldn't be on my MA anymore? I'm still finishing the final 1 or 2 spells with them though

REQUEST COMPLETED.

By this point, you should already have your Map Art.

If you haven't received it or believe this to be a mistake, please contact Community Management.

DENIED.

Your Map Art was deemed not medieval-era friendly. If you would like more information, please contact me.