Multiracial Or Not?

[Kilgrim 361]

What happened was Charles left as king.

Well with being king, comes a lot of stress. Ask charles, skinner, or algrim, if it was stressful to be king. They will answer most definitely yes. What i'm getting at is being king is like a real life job. Your literally running a kingdom. People are looking up to you and expecting you to guide them. Every King goes through this and it eventually get to them that they have to stop and let someone else have a chance at it. On a server like this, all kings eventually need to come to an end. I am amazed at some of the people that have been kings of nations for months now like Syrio. To be able to put such time and dedication for months at a time is difficult and you need to understand that it's important to realize this. So you can't blame charles for leaving. He even gave everyone a chance for him to be king again, but that didn't really work out so now he is playing Kjell. You can't blame charles for leaving as king. Also, Skinner wasn't bad as king. The only thing he did wrong was he wasn't able to keep dwarves in the city. But in truth it wasn't his fault. For some reason in that period of time everyone wanted to own land. Everyone wanted to have power and couldn't understand that it just doesn't work like that so it was very difficult for him. But skinner was able to provide loads of poor housing. Almost all the rooms were bought out. Even if we added an entire new layer of poor housing they were still all bought. Only when we came to the third layer of poor housing did all the houses not be bought. The only thing is that we didn't realize that keeping on building more poor housing was a bad decision. People had up to 3 poor houses at a time, and no one ever moved out of them. The intention of poor housing was just to get new dwarves started but it was abused. After skinner, algrim came along and well. He didn't really do much. I didn't actually really see any changes or remember any changes to the city itself. When thorik came into reign he made massive changes to city and government. He changed some of the main structures of the city such as: Pillars got a new design, fortress redone, and the pillars at the end were remodeled to have a more appealing look and design. His government plan although, had flaws. The lower council, was a complete bust. I am pretty sure there were absolutely no meetings for lower council. The branch was completely pointless.

Anyways I guess there is a kinda brief history of the kings... but what i'm really trying to get to, is you can't say only one king has done it right. During the first century dwarves Simppa was king, most people wouldn't know that though because he was never around and almost absolutely nothing. Charles was the overseer for us and we were perfectly good off with that and he gave us jobs and was there to do his job. Don't go off saying charles leaving his position as king was the reason the dwarves at the state they are in now. Because with every new king good is to come. And with that good, comes change. Whether it be for better or worse. Putting the blame on one man it unreasonable. You can't just say "What happened was Charles left as king." Because that's a completely false statement.

[no longer active 734]

Sorry if it came out like that. I know it is stressful to be king and I don't begrudge them for leaving. I just wanted to experience firsthand the times everyone calls "the first century". I joined just as it ended.

[Broski 54]

Stressful it is yes. But yet I am still fully enjoying it.

[tomahawk90 5]

I think you could let trade happen in a small area of the city, but yet still in the city. I know many of you don't like that, but in my opinion you just can't seperate your whole city from the trade area and other races. The other races do not need us as much as we need them as they got each other when we isolate ourselves. I am not saying we should let them into our clan halls, homes, and certainly not that they would be allowed into libraries and religious buildings. But I dislike having a trade post completely outside of the city, it will not be as attractive for rp and for outsiders to come and set up shop as it would be when it was inside our walls. I also think that keeping foreign traders outside of our city is an attitude to hostile for us dwarves to be using.

Why not let outsiders in to a small part of our city, and lock the rest of the city for dwarves themselves. As Broski made a sketch I want to link to my sketch too: >click< (its just another thread on this forum, no worries)

And when will it be time to stop only talking about this new city and actually start planning in game events to trigger it all? I mean, you would need to decide on a final city plan (perhaps via a contest, much like IRL you have contests for architects to design a building with certain requirements) and make it known to all dwarves so we can all help and feel involved, you need to have some event that would trigger us to leave Karik (and Holm?) and set a date for it to happen so many dwarves can attend (perhaps let people vote for different dates or something so we feel involved yet again), but up until now I only see multiple threads springing up which all discuss the same matters.

[Broski 54]

I see Tomahawk, I get your point but the thing is, You are dividing the Kingdom into Districts which is what we don't want. Basically, we want other races into the City, well thats not possible with our Lore, so my plan is to have the Dwarves "Lend Out" their surfaces to other races and have the Dwarven Economy be raised by having dwarf~human housing above ground, stalls, shops, main square and that will be accessible for all races.

This Poll is totally wrong;

What currently is asked is whether we want other races to be involved in our city by having them live in our Grand Halls and make this city, a city like Alras is. But that is what we will NEVER do, because it would not fit our Lore. Basically if you read my posts above where I have explained everything in; the city would be locked off for other people but Dwarven Economy rises by having a lot of Trading on top.

[no longer active 734]

Basically tomahawk, we split the city into two. One part is mutiracial and holds our economy jobs and such. The other part is for housing, clan and guild halls, and other Dwarvish things.

[tomahawk90 5]

I am getting pretty confused. You say I am dividing the city into districts and that it is something "we" do not want. If by "we", you mean the dwarves in general, I think you are only partly right (or I am misinterpreting you). I have heard over and over again that the city should have areas solemly for dwarves, and you are saying this too, which would automatically mean you would need to divide the city into districts, as you cant have everything secluded. Take for example the trade areas and all those other areas you mention. So yes, I am dividing the city into districts, but with all due respect, you are doing the same by moving trade outside of the city.

You state that you want a "central square" in the trade area foreigners may use. In my opinion, and I think in general too, a central square is the center of a city. You are using it here as the center of the trade area, but there is no one or almost no one living here as the city is away from the trade area, making the central square a dead place. A central square is not only planned as being in the centre and being large, it should also have something that makes sure that social life is attracted to this place (this, partly, is my field of study). A central square inside the city would be such a place, a central square with only shops around it would not be such a place. My point: you are trying to create two cities, with a player base that is hardly enough to fill one.

Maybe I wasnt clear enough: I do not want foreigners to enter our city either. As such, I think we are pretty much on the same wavelength here, just a few differences. BUT if you look at my schematic, I have still incorporated the trade area in the main cities schematic. Foreigners will only have access to the trade area, and all other buildings will be out of their reach or sight. The main profit to be taken from this, is that the city and the area accesible for foreigners SHARES its central square, which is the palace. This seems fitting to me, as dwarves hold their rulers in high regard. (foreigners have no access to the palace btw). As such, foreigners get as much access in my plan as they would get in your plan, apart from the fact that we let them see one level of our palace and a small portion of our underground mountain, but still they get to see less then was the case in Karik. The main difference in my opinion is that your plan is to create two cities, while mine is to create one city, so visitors have the feeling they are "inside" the city as well, while actually they are just on the doorstep but inside the mountain.

Leland, the very thing you say you are going to do is what I am trying to prevent by reasoning, not only because I believe it would mean making the same mistake as has been done in Karik, but also because others believe so as well. I will probably not have many dwarves who will back me up on here as I mainly see high-ranking dwarves responding who are all on the same wavelength, but I have seen multiple posts on the forums stating "please do not split up the city", "please keep it simple", "please do not make a long hall with buildings along it", "please do not spread out the city again".

Let me finish my maybe fierce wall of text with the fact that I very much enjoy this intelligent discussion and that sharing different point of views will eventually always lead to better decisions then those made by people who all share the same thoughts.

[no longer active 734]

On the contrary I have heard lots of people say they want a mainly multiracial city with a bit of segregation.

[tomahawk90 5]

I would like that even more, but up until now I have only seen plans that involve pulling the city apart and create two "half-cities". But I am curious, what would be in the area accesible to other races apart from a trade area?

[no longer active 734]

Arena, taverns, dock, library, guild halls and forges.

[Arbrek the Ancient 140]

Guild Halls, the Library, and the Forges would be available to other races?

[no longer active 734]

Forges as people would come to us for our great skills, library so others can learn our lore and history. Guild halls so people can hire them.

[Arbrek the Ancient 140]

Ugh.... Forges and the Library are almost holy places, and our work would be interrupted, and why on Earth would we want to hire other races?

[no longer active 734]

I mean so other people can hire the guilds. Like if some humans need some building done they can hire some of our architects.

[Boomack21 124]

Moved to the Great Library. It shall be sorted into appropriate category shortly.