Jaslaw

Force of a Warhammer WHEN PUNCHING. They can very much so get weapons, and armour which quickly turns into a huge problem when they are just as fast as an elf and can out much their endurance. As of right now? Yes, Ologs can still technically use armaments as long as they are simple ((Clubs and alike at most. Ranged is likely out of the window unless its a throwing weapon)) and wear armour, but noone in their right mind will try to tell you and justify that they are as fast as any other race, nor that they have ''better endurance'' while being obese beasts of large proportions. THAT is the issue. It may not seem like a huge thing, but in practice all that adds up. Not to mention that I would not call them a ''meme'' state. People just need to learn how to play them right, you can do so much neat things with a character that has brawn but not the brains! If played right it can lead to some great rp, I played an Olog and I enjoyed it very much so far. It is a price for his strength, yes- but it doesn't mean its a bad thing. Meanwhile removing any sort of price and buffing them isn't the way. Each boon should have at least a small weakness with it, or it should be impactful enough to give ways to deal with the CA- Here, in this rewrite there is none of that. Which leads to SO MUCH possibility for issues with this.

Man not again. Once more, having them be three times as strong as a normal descendant ((as written in the strength section)), having them be as agile as a god dame elf, TIRE LESS than a normal descendant while being 900 pounds beasts- is just INSANE. And do not forget the fact they are no longer held by inteligence in this rewrite. Their one singular bane. While also having other buffs like imunity to withering and necromancer draining and ontop of all that the other special orc redliens added onto it like being more resistant to blasting potion knockback due to being an orc subspicies and all that. Sure, you can ''nerf'' rage but when you write the 3x strength rage would have rather than 2x strength into the core of the CA that ain't sneaky. Stop trying to make a broken CA for your own use, it will (Hopefully I pray the coruption is not this bad) not pass. Accept that strength and various boons come at a cost- Ologs, as they are right now are stupid for a reason. They ARE strong, very much so, and thats why they are held back by their mental bane. If you take that away and give nothing in turn to justify their power than you just get a broken CA with no reason to really exists besides being OP and a pain to deal with for everyone that is not an orc or ''friend'' with orcs which usually will come down to ooc connections. This rewrite is straight up JUST taking away the one cook aesthetic thing that they would have, and making their ''rage'' strength pernament. Like bro why even try that? Seriously, do not try to be sneaky

Alright so, as a goober darkstalker that fights a lot most of the changes seem good and others are 50/50. First: Removing the lesser force from abyssal flame bolt seems alright, seeing that javelins are 2 emotes to throw and honestly a very strong contester against using ''bolt'' does help it be more competetive But my main issue honestly never been the range, but rather the fact that using primarily piercing damage [Crossbow bolt] for blunt damage makes it hard to figure out the scope of the power this attack has- it could be stated that it dents in armour and what not, but the techlock itself only assumes piercing power as far as I can see [For refence, Crossbow mechanics taken from the armaments techlock[ MECHANICS Crank Crossbows retain a [48] Block range and possess a draw weight between 80 and 500 pounds. Projectiles launched from Crank Crossbows are capable of piercing skin and through bone, though the depth of the puncture will vary depending upon armor. Crank Crossbows are capable of consistently piercing through Medium and Heavy Armor. Crank Crossbows may NOT be used on Horseback, and require the use of a heavy windlass or crannequin. . This lead to me going ''it hits like a crank crossbow but doesn't pierce, tf that mean? Idk you do you with that bro'' a few times, which as funny as it is does pose some issues. Having it be like a warhammer strike, perhaps as if wielded in both hands at the 4 block range and wielded in one hand at up to 8 block range would be a good fix to it? Generally using blunt damage metrics for blunt damage would be better than piercing type damage is all I am saying Secondly: The abyssal flame from ''enwrath'' remaining for 3 emotes rather than remaining indefinietly and lasting only one hit seems like a good change to me, Personally I do enjoy the ''one big bonk starting strike'' but I must admit that with it taking 3 emotes to cast it is more so a ''I don't have anything better to do so why not'' kind of thing rather than something I actively make an effort to acquire. In that time you could get a blasting potion primed and thrown, throw a javelin and go in for a hit, or just you know- hit three times. As of right now the action economy just doesn't support its use and at best I only get to use it at the beggining of combat IF I start casting early. Really only serving a function as an ''opening strike'' that more offten than not will be mainly disregarded anyways. So that change would be great to see! Rather than it taking 3 strikes away from you and giving you 1 with double strength [4 emotes total, 3 to cast 1 to attack] it would let you ''store'' the force of the three attacks you would make in the three emotes it takes to cast this spell and actually be more of a worth while return. So I like it! Seems balanced as you litterally weave the force of the strikes you could have made into the sword. If the ST disagree they could limit it a bit with Khor blade durability but I do not belive it to be needed IMO. Thirdly: The durability increase. YES. I do like to joke that John the templar can be more durable than a darkstalker at times due to armour not affecting us. Armour was strong in the past, yes. But with mechanics at play it can get silly sometimes when people will shrug off a blow with ''bruises'' or not even that much when it would be half-way there to breaking a darkstalkers limb. So yes! Durability increase would be nice and give us a better ability to fight multiple people and actually make it cool rather than getting jumped in two emotes and needing to bulshit our way into not dieing instantly. It would still not be fully insane but making death knights more formidable is neat. On that note, The urge to fight in a dress and laugh my ass off while fighting fully geared knights is immense. I would still be as strong as if I were in my armour anyways, heck I would be EVEN STRONGER due to being more agile without armour. Fear the day Urzul pulls up slaying in a pretty pink princess dress because that is the day when she ain't messing around. Might want to do something with that, or not cus its hillerious. But my sugestion would be to have the armour negate Aurum/thanium [not carbaurum or boomsteel] effects and raising the damage bracket unless it pierces through the armour, as well as maybe protecting from malflame Right now it doesn't do anything besides tanking 1 lesser hit you usually won't even recive or care about if you get hit with it and it would make sense that a material of a weapon needs to touch you to take effect. So seeing that would be nice. Also I know I never seen anyone complain about malflame not affecting a fully plated darkstalker but specifing that we still get protection from that would be good before someone tries to abuse it Lastly: The one thing I dislike. The darkstalkers being made into something you can make 2 per month rather than 1 for every 1 necro and 2 greater undead you have. It would basically double the covens ability to make darkstalkers which is not good, I firmly belive that people should first become ghouls and stay as them for at least a month or so before ascending further to build up some personality and actually ''earn it'' rather than becoming goon #520. So that is first of all heavily not needed, and second of all just kind of broken with the speed you could pop out darkstalkers at with those rates so I do not like that. Overall a big +1 though!

The changes sound mostly really nice! Starting off with the two magic slots is great, having magic lets you do a lot more. Personally as a darkstalker I do not get those but get to use necromancy to a smaller degree, and just being able to help with rituals while also having the doors open to do reaserch into the magic and actually do stuff with it is great so that is a +1 to make a CA more than just goons. The increase in strength is also good because it will let them actually be on part when fighting orcs, IMO it is bit of a shame they lose it when getting magic but it is an interesting way to incorperate it- I would still expect most to get magic with their CA but giving those uninterested in magic a boon is quite neat As for the rework it is also good that the effects are more mental than outright crp related, I feel like rusting should remain as a deterant for the character rather than an outright punishment that could insentivise people to die to the knight [could be a major issue in group fights too if it were to remain combative] so good change as well! Lastly for the full on removal of the oath blade- I would consider it a bit of a shame in truth, the idea was a cool concept even if its original version was very limiting Do not get me wrong it is good that the knights can use more weapons as options are great, but I would far more like to see oath blades becoming something like darkstalker Khor blades- something cool that they CAN use rather than something they HAVE to use. For example by trying to reimplement them but giving an option to have them appear as different weapons other than just greatswords [with blunt weapons losing the main effect of not damaging the body perhaps?] Or giving them an option to have an oath blade and also use different weaponry alongside it! Basically my suggestion is try to look at Khor blades that have the same effect of turning outright deadly strikes less deadly [by necrosis and not hitting soul rather than body but still effect is quite similar!] and trying to implement it as such

The issue with that is that this is not just a ''subrace'' for flavor. This is a race that gives special abilities and boons, and you can just become it from the get go after one day waking up and going ''why not'' No other subrace has this sort of stuff, so you can not honestly compare different aesthetics to full out CRP abilities, extreme size which will have people going ''ur weapon smol it doesn't do anything :D'', and on top of that allows you to use magic and do everything else any normal character would but with insane power ''cuz why not'' And just because there are people out there that won't choose to go for a stronger option out of sheer lazyness to write an app that can genuinely be done in an hour or so doesn't make it any better. Yes people choose to play goblins over orcs, but that is usually because they want magic or are interested in more chill things- goblin and orc are not the same type of player, but orc and Olog would be. Because it is litterally just what orc is but even more op. It is not really ''less'' doors than Uruks, you can still do the exact same things as an Uruk would, you can still do reaserch, you can stack feets, you can learn magic, and basically just do anything you want without paying the cost most CAs have. Be it PK claus, specific weaknesses, or heck even a hit counter that ST love to slap onto dark CAs. When you actually look at it every other CA has at least some cost to their abilities. Meanwhile this rewrite just lets you play as a giant Uruk, with extra abilities, and nothing to justify its power. When rewriting Ologs it shouldn't just be ''Uruks but better'' it should be its own thing or AT LEAST come with the banes that being an Obese 10 feet tall monster should bring like slower movement and unability to wear full plate armour due to it restricting movement too much If the rewrite had stuff like that I would have no issue with it, but it doesn't. It is litterally just trying to make op Uruks that are as strong, or even stronger than currently existing Dark CA's which have creation cooldowns and specific requirements So yes, I absolutely hate to see Ologs that are their own thing be used as an excuse to basically just buff orcs

And what is the so mighty difference in mentality? The fact that the rewrite is trying to push them into orc communities and keep them there, or just the fact they are arogant and prideful? Like c'mon that is not a lot and bloodlust is something that orcs as a whole always had and will always have so that isn't much special either. And well, you can play braindead on any persona yes! But does that mean you can just take away the ONE bane keeping an otherwise OP CA back and than call it balanced? It is not about how I feel Ologs should be roleplayer, its more so that it is unecessary to buff an already stronger than normal race. The rewrite means you get to be OP just because- and still do EVERYTHING you would do on any other persona. At that point the question is, why wouldn't you play an Olog? If you want to play this kind of CA? Just make an orc. It is still stronger than other races, but it has some balance to it. You still get to be a smart cookie and do everything every other descedant would do So why make that but just WAY more OP in a manner that will be abused and powergamed? It just doesn't seem good to me

They get strength nerfed a bit, extra abilities, and lose any real ''downside'' that comes with playing an Olog Lowkey just Orc+ bro and it ain't even funny 🙏 Ah yes! Lets compare Goblins, Humanoid greenskins that can be as tall as a human to orcs! Race that is already stronger than the baseline! Now kids, what happens when we give the improvement on the baseline crack? Lets find out and hopefully nothing will be broken in that! :D Yea no, that just sounds ridicolous. Just because goblins exist and are weaker than orcs does not mean that orcs need to have a + tier that is just a better stronger version of themselves, RIGHT NOW ologs are far more of their own thing. Any of their physical might comes at a steep cost in their mentality, they can not do many things normal orcs would do And if you can't play an idiot persona right and actually have fun with it, than just DON'T play an Olog. Thats the thing, it is its own Niche that can be very interesting and fun to play around with! You will be manipulated and used instead of being an intrigue mastermind, you will not achive great magical breakthroughs nor will you be a great military comander. But you will still be around for it all, you can still enjoy going around and being the ''muscle'' when necessary- That is what Ologs should remain as in my eyes... Not just orcs that are buffed out for no reason. Not Orc+. They should remain Ologs, their own thing. Do not use them to buff orcs by proxy.

Alright found it, Ologs can learn Shamanism, Seer, Blood Magic, Corcitura, Alchemy Feats, Housemagery, Bardmancy, Golemancy, Sorvian Crafting, Kani & Feats; any other that doesn't alter the soul or corrupt it while preserving their Olog traits. Well that is still a lot of stuff, Blood magic, Seer, and Kani are all combative and can be very good while not decreasing any strength of the Olog. Even if they can't cast while raging it does not mean that they can't start casting after their rages run out, or after they cast something like ''eye-bite'' to blind the oponent and than jump the heck out of them using the 1 emote of horse movement that rage gives on top of the 2x strength of any given person And it really diminishes their charm as ''blind followers'' and instead lets them lead entire magic groups based on the stuff mentioned even further taking away the cost that the initial write has for actually being an Olog. So again- I am still not a fan of all this. Just because you can't use an op ability while also casting magic doesn't make it any less op, nor does them having full descenant ability while just being outright stronger juzt cuz why not seem all that fair to me. Oh no I mean they are 10 feet tall tanks made of fat and muscle. To take that down you need a lot more and people WILL abuse that, this is why I mentioned their sheer size being a boon in of itself, and it doesn't stop them from just putting on full plate. It simply means that when cought off guard they are not going to get absolutely bodied like everyone else would - BESIDES. Do not underestimate the mobility of natural armor with no restrictions, it is still insane in of itself. And people can powergame even against the current x3 strength, but it doesn't mean that being twice as strong as another person is any less powerful. You still have a massive advantage for absolutely no reason, and at no cost to yourself Its just a lot of stuff that I see getting abused in the futture should this pass, nor does it really follow what Ologs are right now. It just takes them, mushes extra abilities together and turns them into normal orcs but +

Valid, but it does not change that they will be now permited to use more complex weaponry and still remain way stronger than any normal person. While also having more durability, and same speed/endurance as all other races It really just stops looking fun and more like ''Op for the sake of op'' while removing the one thing that makes Ologs what they are right now. Ngl it would far more feel like just removing Ologs and buffing orcs as a whole in my eyes

Where does it say they can not become Templars? And not being able to cast while in rage, is a plus. But it does not really ''justify'' its existance or make it that much better, it is still an additional option for combat which makes them TWICE as strong as a normal person, its really a case of ''OH NOOOO! My toast is perfectly baked and my lobster too buttery!'' at that rate. And as much as I find an Olog leading ammusing, it gives WAY too much oportunity for stuff like that happening outside of orc comunities and actually doing mentally difficult stuff while still remaining quite simply broken as better orcs.

Yea stuff like Bolster Strength also has a 3 or so emote ''cooldown'' after it is done which leaves you unable to do anything... this rewrite does not have anything CLOSE to that. Its just that but BUFFED into insanity.

The issue is that magic is really good. Templarism makes it so you can cast insane spells and not lose any physical strength, heck even magical Seer ((that Ologs can not become as of right now)) has some pretty good spells and no cost physically. Kani is also one, and I am telling you- There WILL be martial arts magic Ologs the second this passes. This also comes in addition to them being as mentally capable as any other race, right now they are on part with children in their mental prowess. THAT ALONE is a huge bane to playing them as pf right now, it locks them out of leadership possitions and any ''higher up'' rank for example. With it gone? They are really just orcs but better. Not to mention that physically, they might have been nerfed a bit. From 3x to 2 times ((Basically for the whole combat. Holy hell 8/12 emotes is insane most combats do not last much more than that)) or 1.5 x normally, but the durability, size and overall insane power is still there at its core. It is a good bit of an issue there. And well, not really. MOST CA's will need you to search out a specific magic/feet user and than the CA will most offten than not be weaker than this. It is deceptive because it might not LOOK like a lot- But I have played a lot of CAs in the past, and holy heck this is INSANE. ((Alongside other CAs having banes or even PK mechanics tied to them for mid ''strength''))

Well USUALLY it should not. But when it is an open CA anyone can just apply for and make a character in I do not really trust it. The identity of Ologs to this point was ''you are strong but at a cost''. That kept their numbers small and made them ''balanced'' in a way, while also making it easy to get rid of bad apples that would abuse Olog mechanics. When you take away the cost, all you are left with is just an OP CA that just kind of exists for the heck of it. My issue is not fully that there is ''no downside'' in of itself, the issue is the ammount of buffs and abilities that they get at no cost. Its litterally just orcs, but better. And I swear to god if I see one of these things become a templar I will cry. As of right now, Ologs can not get any magics- They only get acess to 3 nonecombative feets and NOTHING ELSE. On top of their simple minds keeping back. That is their justification for the power they have, meanwhile this rewrite? It simply takes all of that away and gives you a needlessly powerful persona, that can do politics, intrigue, magic, reaserch, ANYTHING really. It frankly just seems unfair to people who play none orcs at this point, normal orcs are already bad. Getting special rules in lore as well as having boosted strength and being able to get away with a lot more- Taking that and cranking it up is NOT a good idea in the slightest. Trust me the kind of people that will be drawn to the idea of ''super OP with nothing bad about them!'' Persona, should not have that kind of Persona.

And, it all makes sense now. It indeed states OLOGS ARE INCAPABLE OF LEARNING MAGIC, and cannot utilize activated enchantments on top of that. And the two feats you mention are 2 feets out of all that are out there. Not to mention, you would be incorect, Seer FEET is fully none-combative, it lets you see without eyes and that is it. The other one I didn't even hear about bro About their use of weapons, it does specify that it must be SIMPLE weaponry and not EVRYTHTING UNDER THE SUN And personally I would ammend them being able to wear full plate and maybe give them movement penalty even in the current lore but that is something else And my issue isn't that I can't play an idiot, its the fact that it has absolutely NO DOWNSIDE to being an Olog. Its just all buffs, and at that point- why wouldn't you play one? Its just gonna end VERY poorly my dude

Yea... I read it and absolutely hate this. In my eyes it is not much more than an attempt at creating ''orc +'' with taking away the HUGE bane of being an Olog, that being their simple minds and unability to cast magics or learn feats. It has some good ideas, like giving them some armour when not wearing any ((which should be closer to light if implemented IMO)), however its just INSANE ammount of buffs with NO downsides. Being a 900 pound 10 feet tall monster that can have magics, is as smart as everyone else, doesn't have any movement penalty, is able to wield armour and weapons perfectly fine, and gets additional boons just due to existing? Yea no thanks that is broken. Again, this comes from someone that already plays an Olog, and I absolutely despise it- It takes everything that Ologs are now and than strips that away to instead make them better orcs. There is no reason for such a rewrite to be even happening, Ologs can be played poorly by some people, yes. However there is a certain charm to their simple mindness and dependance on others for mentally tasking things. Personally I had great fun going around as Brick, even if he is not able to do a lot he is doing his best which lead to some really nice interactions! Be it drawing out what he means while asking for paper to draw a letter to someone ((Yes, he got a piece of paper and still drew his plan to send a letter)) or hesitently joining in on playing music with a person by claping his hands together even if he was failing misserably TLDR: **** Orc+. Leave my dum dum alone.