rukio 8924 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Regarding Branding in the Eyes of the All-Father Though I have been a part of the Fatherist faith a mere fraction of the time it has existed since the Father first spoke to Thoromir I, I have done my best to read and learn from the scriptures passed down to us by Arthas and Aeyn, as well as, to an extent, Tyr. In the tomes which I have read I find no mention of branding or maiming a new follower as part of their baptism or conversion, until the era of Tyr. In fact, Arthas himself seems to frown upon similar practices, which were once held in high regard by Purifiers and Priests alike in the era of High Keeper Angus. Does branding someone as we would a cattle not mark them for an eternity? As such, does it not force the hand of a believer to never rescind their vows? In this way, is this not a part of the forced conversions Arthas himself condemned? Arthas being who we gather most of what we know of the Faith from. Further than that, the Faith declares we must be open and proud of our faith, for our god is not that of the Canonist god, he is not all-knowing nor all-powerful. His power relies on us and our belief, does it not? He gives us protection from the Long Dark in the hopes that we will spread his word and convert those who would follow him. We do not hide our faith, we are not ashamed of our faith, yet we brand people in such ways that no one would see it. Is this not blasphemy against the Father? Is this not an assault upon the paragon whom we choose at conversion and who we pray to, in hopes that they will take our prayers to the Father and that he will listen to his chosen ambassadors? On paragons, is it not true that some will choose a different paragon to whom they pray as the circumstances of life change for them, just as the seasons change what we plant in our fields? Does marking someone with the seal of a particular paragon not force them to avoid changing themself as a person as life moves on? Surely some women who choose Astrid will have a softer heart, wishing more to pray to the Weaver and the Mother as they grow older, marry, and bear offspring to their husbands and raise those children on stories of paragons and heroes of the Nordish folk. Would it not, to some degree, make more sense to mark those who abandon the Faith with a brand instead, as apostates are condemned? So that Purifiers may seek them out with further ease and know what they have done? I do not wish to step on the feet of Priests who have studied the faith longer, but I feel a strong need to defend the Faith I have found in my heart to be true, and question practices which have only recently become accepted. -Initiate Rosalia (Homagod the forums trolled me and made it a ton of pages...>REEEEE) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmeatball 62 Share Posted October 10, 2019 *Gareth would read this and consider answers to the questions, noting that the idea of branding upon conversion derives from the old Initation process, which Rosalia has yet to go through herself, and is an important cornerstone of the Faith* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rukio 8924 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, jmeatball said: *Gareth would read this and consider answers to the questions, noting that the idea of branding upon conversion derives from the old Initation process, which Rosalia has yet to go through herself, and is an important cornerstone of the Faith* Rosalia would note that Gareth refers to the Initiation process which Tyr did, who was High Keeper less than a hundred years ago, and as such is not a deciding factor of the old practices which she speaks of. She would also note that he skipped over everything Arthas related in her writings, as well as the fact that just because he had to suffer terrible pain does not mean said pain is a cornerstone of the Faith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askuzai 505 Share Posted October 10, 2019 A look into the History surrounding Branding History: You may be new to the faith as am I, but I had the luck of having Aeyn as my father when he was still alive. He taught me many things about our great Allfather, some of which included the teachings of Tyr. Due to a follower of Tyr’s teachings having been a Keeper under him. Now as you might not know, The first Tyr of Faretto came from the very same era as Arthas did and there are less scriptures written by him truly. Perhaps those rituals and knowledge that Tyr performed back in that time were passed down by word of mouth rather than by way of pen. Perhaps this led to the passing of knowledge down to this new Tyr. That Tyr was the Keeper under Aeyn and our last High Keeper from the times of Pinemarch, of which the branding may have originated, if not from that prior time. I am unsure. It truly is a difference in teachings between two different Keepers of the time. It is written that Arthas had a very simple way of inducting someone into the Red Faith, and while unwritten, The way of Tyr is more brutalistic in its fashion of Branding and Symbols. In times before them, the people of the Red Faith were baptised in the blood of Bulls. And more recently, During the time just before Tyr’s rule in Pinemarch, The time of Dunharrow, High Keeper Aeyn recorded his own way of initiating someone into the faith in Fatherism, An Introduction: “To accept the truth into one's heart is a simple affair. Approach a Keeper of any sort. This keeper will ask the supplicant three questions. This will be followed by a sprinkling of holy oils. The Keeper will then baste you with the presence of the All Father. Igniting your blinded soul and revealing unto you the All Father's glory. This will be followed by the choosing of a patron paragon, to whom the individual agrees to offer a portion of their income to in exchange for blessings and intercession.” -High Keeper Aeyn With Norland having been thrown in chaos when High Keeper Aeyn was killed in his temple along with other important members of the society. Violence in the temple is forbidden, may those who killed he and the others forever writhe in the agony of darkness. Norland was dissolved shortly after by King Edvard due to issues stemming from that very incident, looters had burned down the Temple library in Dunharrow, some of the books were saved on time, but much was now gone to the new Keepers of this Era who had not been fully taught by Aeyn. Luckily now those texts have resurfaced here in Morsgrad, but in any sense, The Teachings of Tyr was all they had to go off of as Tyr Faretto became the next High Keeper. So of course this other way of how Allfatherism is taught overshadowed Arthas’ till his texts resurfaced. We see this difference of teachings most in Keeper Gareth who was personally taught by High Keeper Tyr. Answers to your Questions: Now to go over those questions you had. Branding someone into the Red Faith as a means of initiation will certainly be permanent unless forcibly removed. I have not gone through this branding process myself due to the fact my father Aeyn followed a variant of Arthas’ way of initiation. However, I can say for a different, equally permanent, ritual involving the Induction into the Brotherhood that Keeper Gareth had offered a substitute option of being bathed in Bull’s Blood instead. I chose the prior option of marking the symbol of Donovan into my very flesh. But for the less dedicate who only wish to see and hear the truth of the Allfather, I myself am further on the side of how Arthas’ once taught, but I do not have the authority to change such a thing as a mere initiate. If someone were to rescind their vows to the Allfather, that would make them apostate. In the past and now it hasn't changed. Apostates are a people to be hunted and given the Allfather’s mercy as they forsook the Allfathers light. It is not forced conversion if we do not use violence or blackmail them into the Faith. As High Keeper Arthas himself said, “Firstly all children of the All Father are forbidden to coerce heathens into the ranks of the Faith via the expression or threat of violent action. One cannot be a true convert if they have been compelled, thus those compelled have not truly taken the All Father into their hearts and souls and cannot be properly defined as a real convert.” -High Keeper Arthas We cannot threaten violence to convert a man or woman into the Red Faith as they will still be blind to the light. Does a baby bird appreciate being pushed out of it’s nest before it is ready? It does not, as it will be forever be dead. As a forced convert will be forever blind to the truth. You are correct that we are to be proud of our Faith as we are to be proud as a people. The Allfather created us through his Justice, as my Father Aeyn had once told me when I asked about the Red Scrolls during my youngling years. I believe that in the doctrine of Tyr, Having the skin branded or tattooed is more seen as a form of dedication to following the Allfather through pain, If you are willing to go through pain and suffering for the Allfather and his paragons, surely you are dedicated to him? It most certainly does not give the new Allfatherist the chance to hide their faith should someone be testing them for following Arthas’ second tenet. Spreading the flame openly. However, the argument that tattoos and branding are both corruptions of skin is viable in the eyes of an Arthas’ follower, though there be no written documentation of such. That is up for High Keeper Solvi to decide. I do much rather follow the path of Arthas when speaking of Branding as his way of initiation, and by extension my fathers which is quite similar, it seems more closer to the more peaceful routes of initiation into the Red Faith. To each their own. From what we’ve seen in the past, most people select their paragons for life and it was very rare for someone to have changed their paragon. It is feasible but not something to be done often at all. I had this very same discussion with Keeper Gareth about what would be done say a new paragon has fallen more in favor, As you cannot easily remove a brand. Perhaps it is my opinion that we should bare a mark of the Allfather rather than our paragon of choice as to allow for such changes, but that is another decision up to the High Keeper. A short excerpt by my father Aeyn in Fatherism, An Introduction should clear up the exact principals around changing a paragon: “If one wishes to change paragons they must inquire with their local HEARTH KEEPER a mere keeper is insufficient for this process. The applicant will then in the presence of the hearth fire, with the attention of the All Father (as called by the Hearth Keeper) renounce the patronage of their patron paragon. Generally casting whatever icon of said paragon they had carried into the fire. This will generally enrage the paragon and it is not unheard of for discarded paragons to curse those who abandoned them. The applicant will then swear to a new paragon as they would do so at a consecration ceremony. It is worth noting that this new paragon will be less inclined to assist a supplicant that has shown a lack of loyalty to their original paragon. It is not advised that one switch paragons.” -High Keeper Aeyn And to answer your final question, If an apostate is caught, he is more likely to be given the Allfathers mercy to be judged before the Allfather himself. Whether he is to be given that second chance at the truth or not. On rare occasion an apostate could, in theory, be branded instead and pay penance for his sins and go back to his life looking up to the Allfather to learn the truth. Even if our views do not totally align. I thank you for Keeping our lord on high deep within your heart. We are all brothers and Sisters here in the land of the Allfather. -Initiate Chadmyr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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