Mining & The Economy

[Lythandra 8]

Mining range limit set at depth 60.

Minecraft is all about the freedom of mining for materials, and building things out of it. It's about earning independence through interaction with the world.

If you take away half of that aspect of the game, there isn't that much left that seperates Lord of the Craft from Ultima Online other then that one is isometric, and the other is 3D.

I assume this range cap has been implemented to keep diamonds rare to curb inflation and to protect the overall structural integrity of the geometry. But all this does, is allow insiders or certain individuals who are online at the right time, at the right place to gather all the diamonds, whether it be discretely through X-ray or legitimately. Furthermore, *all* the mines are empty of diamonds nearly all of the time. Even if this may not always be the case, it certainly occurred often enough that I felt restricted and disadvantaged.

Furthermore, this encourages strip-mining for iron and coal even closer to the geometry surface. Would there be no depth limit, a digger would dig more centralized and deeper, instead of wider, but shallow.

This artificial regulation of resource availability through the regulation of mining rights reminds me of communist china, fighting inflation. (I realize I am walking a fine line here on trolling, but bare with me here, it will make sense.)

When players start mining an ungodly amount of diamond, then sell it, this would theoretically cause massive inflation. But in reality, if you give everyone access to diamonds anywhere at anytime, there would be no demand for diamonds, and thus no inflation, because most of the money will be earned through questing and mob killing, and common trade in other commodities other then diamonds - Why buy something which you already own? Everyone will have diamonds. Diamonds are merely a material to assist with one's general gaming experience. It's nothing special. Xray will be rendered economically harmless.

One might argue: "Well, if I have all the diamonds in the world, what good is money to me?" There is a commodity that only the server and certain entrepreneurial individuals can offer: Protection.

Protection should be the end-game investment, not diamonds. Ya dig? Because whatever a man can build, a man can tear down. No amount of diamonds can change that, But currency can.

Ya know what I mean?

I am also aware that unrestricted material availability would lead to some sort of "uncontrollable development" where there would be a massive amount of underground bunkers with modern architecture, but that is part of human, elven, dwarven and orc ingenuity. Besides, who says this building strategy isn't "native" to the minecraft microcosm in the first place?

Yes this could theoretically leave a lot of ugly huts out in the open, but those will be left as wreckages soon anyway by griefers and add something to the geometry. Ruins are points of interests too and tell a story of it's own. It becomes part of the server's violent history. People will then flock to the cities to seek protection where money will play a big role.

The more people build out in the wilderness, the more action there is, but they will always have a home in the city to fall back on. A cultural identity to hold on to. This is how medieval works.

Besides, underground bunkers make for "natural" dungeons with loot in them.

Kind regards,

Lythandra

[Availer 681]

I enjoyed reading your thread but I would like to take up these points.

Can you imagine how disgusting the landscape will be if 5,000 users were allowed to go diggy diggy wherever they wanted? It would be absolutely destroyed.

Diamond would become useless.

Xrayers would get ridiciliously rich and outmine everywhere anyway.

Holes would appear.

People would fall to their deaths.

It isn't RP.

The mines are created because IRL you don't find diamond everywhere.

Ruins the economy.

Did I mention it destroys the landscape?

Makes Diamond absolutely unrare.

It really devoids of the fun of getting Minas and trading.

Plus we don't want players to be 'self sufficient'. None is an epic builder, miner, fighter and politician, you can't trust people to RP that well. Therefore limiting the mining means not everyone can go and mine the diamond when they need it.

Just as well, mines get regenerated so do not worry, and more mines are being added.

We thought deeply of this mechanic and we believe it served us very well.

[Lythandra 8]

I appreciate you taking interest in my post, and treasure your insight and willingness to investigate.

Not every player is blessed with a rationale from a "dev" or admin as to why they do certain stuff, so i cherish this discourse.

I can see why things are done the way they are. There are several important observations I need to share however:

Preserving terrain:

Considering poeple are strip mining everything above 60, they still mend the terrain regardless. I have seen many strip mines that have been carefully sealed. Poeple will not fall into them unless they actively dig, in which case they want to be underground anyway, and artifficually dug mines don't exceed 60 blocks depth which means players can't get stuck, unless they are unfortunate enough to fall into a natural cavern, without any wood for ladders, which is a natural, common and circumstantial occurrence anyway.

The server already has stated that damaging the terrain is unacceptable, and i am confidant poeple who have spent an entire hour writing careful RP appplications for server whitelisting would consider the integrity of the game world. The tidy mine seals i have discovered so far pay testament to this respect to the geometry.

Also, should there be a hole left, an admin can always trace the perpetrator, and incarcerate them for questioning. I would gladly volunteer to be head inquisitor :P

Also, when one digs pretty deep, the damage to the geometry is minimized by the fact that most of the damage is done *deep*. Nobody ever goes down that deep anyway. When they do, they got a free tunnel to navigate by.

Rarity of Diamonds - Adding a novelty value to digital items materialized through Java code... it should be a rewarding use of one's time (which equates to real life money). Utilitarian uses tend to have the highest "reward" of time, as opposed to the procurement of an item with an artificially determined value through restrictions and regulations.

Oil companies can tell you a thing or two about that. But I digress! (I'm sorry I'm sorry, I just HAD to say that!!!)

Now, please tell me if I'm wrong, but considering the "mining permits" being an active incentive to donations, it leaves me wondering whether this resource regulation is directly linked to making donations a little more conveniently lucrative?

Because I actually have a better idea of how to make donations even more lucrative without restricting poeple's freedom of enjoying an integral part of the Minecraft experience:

Replace the permits with spells, or one way teleports back to home with a 1 hour re-use. AKA /set home /home

Spells can be a simple thing like fireball, which uses a reagent, giving even more incentive to mercantilism. (Ultima Online)

Because the spell mechanic would be absolutely unique to LOTC, this will be a massive marketing advantage, that could just about bring Lostcraft server to it's knees in terms of popularity, without the kids (cuz they can't write RP apps)

With Kind Regards,

Lythandra

p.s. Falling down into a cavern, then having dirt be "too hard to break through" with a diamond shovel let alone a diamond pickaxe... isn't too RP either i would think ^_^;;

Besides, there are many a situations where heroes fell down a hole, to find themselves in some abandoned mine. That's generative adventure and "emergent gameplay" as it were.

[BoTFranK 1]

Spells can be a simple thing like fireball, which uses a reagent, giving even more incentive to mercantilism. (Ultima Online)

Because the spell mechanic would be absolutely unique to LOTC, this will be a massive marketing advantage, that could just about bring Lostcraft server to it's knees in terms of popularity, without the kids (cuz they can't write RP apps)

With Kind Regards,

Lythandra

they are already implementing magic, used with Hoes(the tool)(THE MINECRAFT TOOL) diffrent spells from diffrent Hoes, wood , iron, gold, diamond all have diffrent uses and differs on the races.

but you have somthing on the teleport thing but it would have to be a out of combat thingy

[Lythandra 8]

they are already implementing magic, used with Hoes(the tool)(THE MINECRAFT TOOL) diffrent spells from diffrent Hoes, wood , iron, gold, diamond all have diffrent uses and differs on the races.

A good point; However they can have the donators magic be it's own sub-set. Besides, ItemID's are server side, so they can build wands. Infact, I make mods for New Vegas. I'd love to learn how to work Java and implement a few wands for the team.

but you have somthing on the teleport thing but it would have to be a out of combat thingy

Agreed!

[Availer 681]

I still am not convinced with your points. I have not seen any strip mines on land and the landscape seems generally well preserved if not for some sand mines. I don't see any positive implications of adding mining everywhere, I'm sorry.

In terms of giving donators specific spells, that is a big no-no, we're not giving Donators the upperhand in combat.

In making permits more donator lucrative, I'm a bit insulted. Mining permits cost 1,000 Minas which is almost nothing for unlimited usage of that area. They are just added to donators as a little non-game-changing perk.

[BoTFranK 1]

I still am not convinced with your points. I have not seen any strip mines on land and the landscape seems generally well preserved if not for some sand mines. I don't see any positive implications of adding mining everywhere, I'm sorry.

In terms of giving donators specific spells, that is a big no-no, we're not giving Donators the upperhand in combat.

In making permits more donator lucrative, I'm a bit insulted. Mining permits cost 1,000 Minas which is almost nothing for unlimited usage of that area. They are just added to donators as a little non-game-changing perk.

i dont know if these are strip mines or just passages but all under krugmar and some to kal urgarn in all directions

[lbvermillion 0]

i dont know if these are strip mines or just passages but all under krugmar and some to kal urgarn in all directions

Dwarves like their secret roads underground for safety and speed (minecarts). Setting the world digging limit a few blocks lower would make these less noticeable like when going through water.

[Lythandra 8]

I still am not convinced with your points. I have not seen any strip mines on land and the landscape seems generally well preserved if not for some sand mines. I don't see any positive implications of adding mining everywhere, I'm sorry.

In terms of giving donators specific spells, that is a big no-no, we're not giving Donators the upperhand in combat.

In making permits more donator lucrative, I'm a bit insulted. Mining permits cost 1,000 Minas which is almost nothing for unlimited usage of that area. They are just added to donators as a little non-game-changing perk.

Oh my donation incentive comment was a question, more then a statement. I am glad that has been clarified. I did not wish you insult you.

Alright :] I have no choice but to trust in your decisions, therefore I will speak no more of the subject.

Thank you for your time.

[Lythandra 8]

Hm... Did my rantings have some measure of influence on the recent changes in donator perks? :P