Cannonizing Shamanism

[Carnivore91 1]

Also a great idea. I merely got a basic system in place. Perhaps Keep Tier relatively the Same? Just teach the fundamentals about spirits, elements, and Alchemy. Then After completing basic stuff when you go to tier two you decide 1-2 routes you may want to go. So like I would teach basics in one subject, you another, and then Lex the Third. That way we get to meet every teacher at the begging and decide where to go after that. Then Tier two you deal more specifically with one teacher but some with the others so you advance at least in everything making someone more powerful and have more insight of all the lore to the three.

When I'm not busy on a day well get more talked about, but today I'm all over the place until later say..... 6-8 hours?

Keep up the good work. Though well talk about how to incorporate the army and other stuff later as well.

[Player-2 0]

I would Definitely add one for Alchemy once it comes in. Alchemy master or Potion Master something like that. Perhaps make it to where only the Orcs could make them too haha, restrict the market to us!

OOC: I believe alchemy should be apart of the healing shaman and people should not be able to run around with dark magic without something like a "pass" from a shaman that they are allowed to use potions, so you are only able to get potions from Shamans or else its considered working with "dark magic" or something like that

[Baisha 8]

Soo.. any ideas for a spirit that would be technology related, or I suppose if you're going for physical elements, perhaps redstone (a little goblin love :P)?

Anyways, love the ideas so far, they all sound well thought out and are all interesting takes on what a shaman can be.

[Sultan 3953]

I also want to shy away ideas of a formal "shaman" institution. I like the idea of seeing Shamans as a regular part of everyday orc culture. Shamans being viewed as another kind of soldier in the Krughai rather than a borrowed unit from some "Shaman Guild" or Shaman Architects being Architects who use shamanism rather than a member of the "Shaman Organization" who is helping the architects. Where druids (at least to my knowledge) are looked at as a sort of separate sect of Elf culture, I think Shamans should not be an their own group but rather an integrated part of other groups like Kheshig, Krughai, Architects/engineers, ect. Thats not to say there shouldn't be a Shaman structure or work between shamans.

The Elder Shaman would represent the "Shaman Guild/Sect" of Orc society, heading the Shaman teachings and representing the interests of Shaman's in general in political agendas. They would be the "Full Time" Shamans, the ones who studied for many years and mastered Shamanism. The rest of us would fall into our own devices. Once we breach the apprentice stage we basically just go off and act on our own within the individual aspects of Orc Society.

To me this makes more sense for a society like Orcs who would prefer not to have to have issues of command. In my suggested system, a Shaman in the Krughai would answer to the Krughai, a Shaman with the Architects answers solely to the architects, Kheshig to the Warlord ect. As opposed to a structured Shaman "Guild" where Shaman working with the Krughai may now also have to answer to his Shaman higher ups. Maybe the Shaman's "Guild" interests lie in one place and the Architects in a different place and now a Shaman Architect must decide between answering to the Shaman's needs or the Architects needs. This division of loyalties is something I believe Orcs would actively try to avoid and the best way to do that would be to stray away from a centralized shaman organization.

Because of the nature of Shamanism (with the exception of leading religious ceremonies) all aspects of shaman life would end up cooperating with these other organizations. As a result it would end up being virtually impossible to keep Shamans from interacting with things like the Krughai. Eventually Shamans will be needed in the battlefield or in want to help build a city. By adding another Organization to vie for desires and how things should be operated. Thus it would dilute what i feel to be the strongest part about Orc culture: that being the ability to make quick and solid decisions without having to go through an extended political process.

So in short: Elder Shamans represent the shamans when that is called for and are the only ones perceived as "Shaman-Only" people. Everyone else integrates themselves with the rest as is necessary.

Something to note: I am not saying all Shaman should have to join the Krughai or Architects or something. It is perfectly reasonable that a Shaman may just choose to be a Shaman and contribute in the same way that normal Orc that doesnt belong to any given section. I just feel that we should treat shamans as just another orc with a different skill set. We dont have a Guild of normal everyday orcs. There isnt a Normalhai for those who are not members of the Krughai or Architects or Domini or what have you. These shaman who decide not to join any given division can still contribute to things like battles and rebuilding sanjezal, they just are viewed as a normal everyday orc with a different skill set from that of other orcs. Not as Shamans from a Shaman Guild that have come to aid the Architects.

~~~

Thoughts and feelings on the matter?

There is no thing as "Shaman Guild"

The Ranks decide this Journeyman don't have to be shamans they Choice to continue to work as a shaman for the next title take the title.

also we have 5 Tiers of ranks now I think.

Elder Shaman and Shaman these are your main title theses would be the shamans that have roles either specific to the above like lore keeper etc.. or combine more than one.

Journeyman: is like what You described his not relay a Shaman per say.

Novice, Apprentice

[Lexperiments 18]

I like all ideas! I love them excellent work!

I would Definitely add one for Alchemy once it comes in. Alchemy master or Potion Master something like that. Perhaps make it to where only the Orcs could make them too haha, restrict the market to us!

As for the basic concepts we have right now for teaching purposes Lex Came up with a four tier system that I'm inclined to accept and use.

Tier One or Apprentice: The basic Elemental spirits of Water, Air, Fire, Water. Just used this to get RP going and what not. Basically we RP summing their first spirit. I randomly Pick an element That is their main element that goes into their wooden staff we make later. At this level that first spirit is their main element. We then take around a two week period ((RL of course)) where we summon the next three in the same matter. After a summoning I make the students write a small book about appearance, type of element, name of Spirit, and a small story that the "Spirit" has told them. Then I read and then store the book into the Guild Houses library ((Which at this rate will need a expansion :D ))

Tier Two or Novice: This is when the first four are done. Which allows the Shaman to become more specific into the Elemental Spirits. They may choose a specific area of study or be a broad area student. These elements would be like Metal, Magma, Ice, wood, ect ect ect. This is not a defined list by any means. It could be such a broad topic that many could be made up. Perhaps After they select what they want this is where Your ranks could come in.

Tier Three or ((not sure on name here, Perhaps this is where your titles would come in? Or maybe just simple Shaman)) Anyway this is where you get more specific on everything. Lex's main element here was Life, Death, Light, and Dark. This is where all other elements kinda come together to fit into all these. Perhaps this is where most shamans will stop training and become what they want to be specially.

Tier Four or Master: The final two elements; Time and Space. The most powerful of the spirits because everything can be created or destroyed in time and Space is anything and everything. This would be the most powerful shamans and would be High ranked throughout Society.

That's a pretty good wrap up into the schooling and what not. Tier one like grade school, Tier Two High School, Tier Three College, and Tier four PhD! Think both systems can combine and make something awesome!

YOU GOT IT WRONG MON!

But seriously, you forgot a tier, and the names wrong.

It goes like this:

BASIC:

Fire, water, earth, and air.

SECONDARY:

Light, dark, storm, metal, and most complimentary elements.

ADVANCED:

Life, death, chaos, and order.

MASTER:

Space and Time.

[Alex_Pan 112]

Shamans should recount long epics for the entertainment and mystification of illiterate orcs. Reminds me of the classical period; also gives us something to do when no one is up to anything exciting.

.

[Urahra 5777]

I am actually in the process of writing an orcish love story. If you guys like it, we could adopt it as a cultural fable.

Though...it may be a little too risque for a cultural story, now that I think about it.

[Alex_Pan 112]

I am actually in the process of writing an orcish love story. If you guys like it, we could adopt it as a cultural fable.

Yes, the history we have so far is extremely mythological; and we also seem to be lacking in a lot of lore. Instead of coming up with rational ways of explaining why we like our women tough, we could just make up a story about why. Or instead of explaining why we are so disconnected from other races in terms of genetics or psychology we could just say make up a story.

[Baisha 8]

I am actually in the process of writing an orcish love story. If you guys like it, we could adopt it as a cultural fable.

Though...it may be a little too risque for a cultural story, now that I think about it.

Throw it up when you're done and let us have a look, oh, and congrats on your villain app being accepted Urara!

[Urahra 5777]

Yeah...I'm now certain that the particular story I have in mind is definitely too risque for a widely told cultural tale.

But I could come up with some other folktales for your consideration.

EDIT: What, I got accepted? Hooray! :D

[Akeron 55]

YOU GOT IT WRONG MON!

But seriously, you forgot a tier, and the names wrong.

It goes like this:

BASIC:

Fire, water, earth, and air.

SECONDARY:

Light, dark, storm, metal, and most complimentary elements.

ADVANCED:

Life, death, chaos, and order.

MASTER:

Space and Time.

so epic I mastered time and threatened to kill space ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

[Alex_Pan 112]

In my travels to Krugmar, I saw two orcs fight, with gleaming iron swords, to the death over a petty dispute. I stopped to speak to a shaman-in-training, who explained to me that one orc had not shown him the respect he deserved and had thus challenged him to a duel to the death. This baffled me; but the shaman-in-training went on to recount the legend of Nub'osh. He tells of the orc, who lived many generations past; but his name had been immortalized. Nub'osh was the chieftain of a very prosperous orc tribe. He was loved by the members of his tribe, and envied by those of other tribes. Legends of his deeds had spread among the tribes of Krugmar; he was depicted a god walking amongst mere mortals. He considered himself to be both the wealthiest and most fortunate of orcs, favoured by the gods; that his legend would live forever. One day, the elder shaman of a poor tribe visited Nub'osh - this was not uncommon - to see the tribe of the god-like chieftain. Nub'osh showed the shaman his tribe, his beautiful farms and livestock, and finally,his collection of gold artifacts. Nub'osh interrupted the tour to ask the shaman who he believed to be the most fortunate orc. Expecting his name, he was astonished at how quickly the shaman responded, "Kragor".

"Why do you say that?", Nub'osh asked, or rather, "Why lat be blahin' dat?"; trying to hide his anger, in respect.

"Kragor was a peasant who worked in the mill, over his life, for fifty thousand days; took up arms to defend our tribe; and died doing so.", he replied.

"A peasant, you say?", Nub'osh could no longer hold his anger,"Then, tell me, shaman; how fortunate do you take me to be, if not as fortunate as a peasant?"

"While the wealthy orc is better able to content his desires, and to bear up against a sudden buffet of calamity, I cannot say. Call him however, until he die, not fortunate but happy."

With this, the shaman was expelled from the village, and given a single loaf of bread and cut of meat to make his trip back. And as the tribes that were at present powerful, were weak in the olden time, and as the formerly great tribes fell to his own, becoming insignificant; such a fate befell his own tribe. Nub'osh, however, did not take up arms like his brethren, convinced his army was unbeatable. And while no army is, or ever was, invincible, he had foolishly believed otherwise. Nub'osh was dragged by his hair from his tent to the town centre, where dozens of orcs took their turn spitting and urinating on him. He was burned alive, as he cried the shaman's name,to be eaten. His brother, Bub'osh, however, had fought most valiantly, even when all hope was lost; and was rewarded as such. His body honoured by the invaders, his soul blessed by Krug, and his name immortalized.

-Aveli, from The Travels of Aveli

OOC:

This legend explains the honour of dying in combat; and how warriors are immortalized while cowards, regardless of wealth or personal accomplishments one has achieved in their lives, will always be looked down upon. This legend also goes on to explain the origins of the words 'Nubhosh' and 'Bubhosh'. Nubhosh meaning small, bad; while bubhosh means big/good. Finally, it adds some sort of history to pissing on bodies and disrespecting poor opponents.

The accuracy of these stories to the actual lore doesn't really matter, because for the most part, those of us living in the "modern" world aren't educated or even aware of the beginnings of the world.

You'll also likely recognize a lot of the content from this legend.

Edit: Still making some changes, but tell me what you think.

[Player-2 0]

OOC: Carnivore91 and I have been discussing that we should probably reduce the number of groups of shamans and most likely combined some.

lore-keeper/story teller - if you keep lore you keep stories of the past and history, so your pretty much doing both jobs anyway

Battle shaman/fighter - they are both very similar, its just pretty much a scale of your shamanism to your warrior

Healer/Alchemy - the only way you can most likely heal is either food or potions, so mixing the two will give a healer something to do

Farseer/Tomb keeper - what better place to tell the future then the place where all the spirits are at? you will stay in the tomb and learn the future off the spirits who live in the tombs.

Adviser/farseer - if your going to help the warlord or rex make a important choice you need to know the future, right?

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Why do i believe we should mix the types?

shamans should be looked up to as a noble and high rank, you dont want 50 people running around as shamans. Shamans should be important, the more shamans we have less importance they will get, they will start to become like average runts.

ok we have 8 types and each type has its master and minimum of 2 apprentices

8x2 = 16 + elder shamans. you get about 18 shamans in total

we all know we will have more then 2 apprentices per branch because everyone will want to become a shaman when they hear about all the cool things we do :P

[Alex_Pan 112]

OOC: Carnivore91 and I have been discussing that we should probably reduce the number of groups of shamans and most likely combined some.

lore-keeper/story teller - if you keep lore you keep stories of the past and history, so your pretty much doing both jobs anyway

Battle shaman/fighter - they are both very similar, its just pretty much a scale of your shamanism to your warrior

Healer/Alchemy - the only way you can most likely heal is either food or potions, so mixing the two will give a healer something to do

Farseer/Tomb keeper - what better place to tell the future then the place where all the spirits are at? you will stay in the tomb and learn the future off the spirits who live in the tombs.

Adviser/farseer - if your going to help the warlord or rex make a important choice you need to know the future, right?

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Why do i believe we should mix the types?

shamans should be looked up to as a noble and high rank, you dont want 50 people running around as shamans. Shamans should be important, the more shamans we have less importance they will get, they will start to become like average runts.

ok we have 8 types and each type has its master and minimum of 2 apprentices

8x2 = 16 + elder shamans. you get about 18 shamans in total

we all know we will have more then 2 apprentices per branch because everyone will want to become a shaman when they hear about all the cool things we do :P

As far as I'm concerned, it's only practical to divide shamanism into two parts - at most. Farseers are advisors, and can easily be lore-keepers as well. Alchemy really isn't an orcish shaman thing to my knowledge, but healers, sure. You don't need ranks for fighting as a shaman; that's what the plain army is for. Shamans can choose whether or not it's in their RP to fight.

If we follow the structure by the ascended we'll end up with more leadership than underlings and more division of tasks means less practical/RP use.

[Urahra 5777]

I have an idea for an orcish folk hero. I imagine she would star in comedic or amusing folktales rather than instructive ones. She'd be in a series of folktales.

Kargala and Her Many Slaves

Long ago, when bands of orcs still roamed the countryside, there lived a wise and powerful shamaness by the name of Kargala. Kargala, a fearsome warrior, destroyed every opponent in her path with her mighty magic. The mere mention of Kargala’s name caused nearby pinkskins to scatter. Rumor had it that she cut out the eyes of all her victims and used them in spells. Humans told their children tales of Kargala, warning them never to venture too far from home or else Kargala would snare them with her spells. All throughout Aegis, men whispered stories of Kargala and her strength and cunning. Among the orcs, she was highly revered and many desired her as a mate.

Kargala plundered many villages and took many slaves. She had several of each race. Her favorites, however, were Berach the Dwarf, Brais the Elf, and Baldwin the Human.

Berach the Dwarf was foolish and greedy. He stole food and ale from Kargala’s stores and guzzled it in secret. Even the sting of Kargala’s whip would not change his ways. Fat and slothful, Berach waddled more than walked. Sometimes, if he were particularly lazy, he would simply roll along like a boulder. Boastful too, Berach would brag of his past deeds, making bold claims in his drunken stupor. “I fought Iblees m’self!” He would brag, swilling down pint after pint of ale, “The only reason Kargala caught me was because I was…ZzzzZzzz…” He would always fall over asleep before he could finish. However, Berach had a nose for gems, so Kargala kept him.

Brais the Elf was even worse. Long legged and proud, he dared to stride beside Kargala as an equal. As punishment, Kargala broke both his legs. Even hobbling on crutches, Brais was ever proud and haughty. With a long, beak-like nose and pouting lips, Brais looked down on everyone he met. “Malin himself praised me,” Brais would brag, “I was a Prince once!” But Kargala, ever wise, saw through his lies. Though proud, Brais would squeak and cower at the sight of a single zombie. He would whine, shake, and drool like an animal. However, Brais, with his great age, knew the many lands of Aegis well, so Kargala kept him.

Finally, there was Baldwin the Human. Baldwin, cursed by the laziness of his companions, labored hard under Kargala’s whip. Even so, he complained and complained. “Oh! I am getting so old! Why must I bear this burden alone?” Night and day, he struggled with Kargala’s treasures on his back. He strained so hard that his hair turned grey. With every treasure added, Baldwin would complain. “Oh! Tis too heavy! I am but an old man!” Baldwin’s every breath was a groan of complaint. Even under the threat of Kargala’s lash, he moaned and moaned. Even so, his back was steady and he never dropped a single treasure, so Kargala kept him.

Kargala’s slaves followed her from town to town, lolling in their uselessness. The other orcs saw Kargala’s slaves and were mystified. Why would Kargala, in her great wisdom, keep haughty and complaining slaves? But the wise orcs saw Kargala’s useless slaves and smiled. Next to the stupid, proud, and cowardly slaves, Kargala looked especially strong, clever, and bold. Men would look upon the slaves and their master and know, immediately, that the children of Krug were the strongest and cleverest. Though the slaves caused trouble wherever they went, Kargala solved each problem with her quick wit and sharp sword. “The foolish slaves may cause problems,” The other orcs observed, “but Kargala is too clever and powerful to let their foolishness wound her!”

Kargala traveled across Aegis with her slaves, proving in each place the strength and wit of Krug’s children.

***

Basically, each story featuring Kargala and her slaves would follow a formula. One of the slaves does something stupid and causes a crisis. Kargala comes in and fixes it. The stories of Kargala and Her Many Slaves would probably be considered infamously racist by the other races of Aegis, but classic and amusing for orcs.