[Amendment] Slightly More Evil Siegmund's Candles

[Slorbin 2932]

Siegmund's candles must be harvested from those recently dead/recently had their limbs removed (3 OOC days), and they smell really bad so people might go 'erm hey what's up with this why do it smell so bad...'

 

Previous:

Spoiler

Brief Description:

 “And to ye Sons of Harren I admonish: There is no refuge from the sight of GOD. For He sees all things, and no sin is hidden before him, even in the darkest realms.” 
–To the Harrenites, from the Scroll of the Spirit, given to We the Faithful by the Exalted Prophet Owyn.

 

Siegmund’s Candles was in its time the pride of the Church Militant. First crafted by the Knights of the Black Sepulcher in days of yore, it was said to grant congregations the sight of the Prophet Siegmund himself, celebrated and burnt in swinging thuribles during mass to ward evil spirits from town chapels and city cathedrals, whilst carried as candles or wax coatings by crusaders, that sought to keep the damned at bay in their wars for God. Its existence was long doubted by alchemists and clergymen alike, as any record of how it was initially made seemed lost in the catacombs of the Library of Johannesburg, when the city was laid waste to by mad Emperor Phillip’s thannhium wrath. 

Lost, that is, until one grave-robbing alchemist during their travels was able to pry one a journal from the cold grasp of a Marked Man belonging to the school of the Ox, who’s unfortunate end had come at the hands of a Flugle in the swamps of southern Cunyuan. Preserved in the bog, the journal was written in an odd mix of Flexio, the Material Alphabet and Cathanese, taking some years to translate. Finally, decades later, this artefact of Canonist wisdom would be returned to use.

 

Recipe:

-Lard (base)
-Rigidity x2
-Death x3
-Connection x2
-Light x2
-Dash of Descendant Ashes x1
(The ashes of any cremated descendant will suffice: be it a leper’s amputated leg or a witch burned at the stake. A ‘dash’ of ashes equates that remaining from a burnt limb or head, with the torso offering two measures if cremated properly. an urn containing the ashes of an entire person would therefore permit 7 dashes appropriate for 7 Siegmund’s Candles)

 

Creation (Optional, only if it requires a specific process)

-All symbols must be ground into separate powders using aurum tools or a polished marble mortar and pestle. These tools are not necessary for the harvesting or storage of regents beforehand, however.
-The lard base must be added to an aurum or marble bowl, equating one candle’s worth.
-The two light symbols ought to be mixed into the base, causing it to take on a pinkish-red colour.
-All steps henceforth must be carried out away from sunlight. Direct exposure to sunlight will cause the mixture in any of the following states to quickly burn up, strangely leaving no mark or damage on surfaces (or individuals) the flame touches.
-The first death symbol should be mixed in, then until the earlier colour is replaced with a dull grey.
-The first symbol of rigidity , and the first symbol of connection, should be added at the same time - within three second of each other, to be precise - and stirred together (pre-stirring these symbols to add as one will not work) until the concoction turns a brilliant white.
-The second symbol of death, followed by a dash of descendant ashes, and third symbol of death should be added then mixed in rapid succession, with no more than ten seconds between each addition. This, if done correctly, will turn the mixture into a soggy vantablack mush. If done incorrectly, the mixture will instantly harden become a useless grey block and be put to waste.
-Finally the second symbol of rigidity must be added, reverting the mixture back to its earlier grey colour. 
-At this point, the mixture must be kept in relative darkness until the later hours of the night, where it must be positioned before dawn so that it might be hit by light from the rising sun. Should this be done properly, the mixture will dry and harden into a malleable wax fit for a candlewick if a base of lard is used, or dry and powder into an incense if a base of distilled water is used.

 

Effects:

Whilst the wax candle is being physically handled, beings made from (or containing, as Mystics do) ectoplasm will forcefully gleam, causing their ghostly forms to shine and be unveiled, instantly ceasing once touch has been broken. 
 
The main use for the incense or wax, however, comes from ignition. When burnt, vapors provoke sources of nearby ectoplasm and cause it to gleam. Mystics and phantoms will feel inclined to avoid it as if physically repelled, a gentle force tugging at their minds with the suggestion to get as far from the burning candle as possible. This can be ignored should any of these creatures be inclined to remain near, though would eventually force them to gleam brightly and create a visible aura over objects and people they are possessing or hiding within, though they will not be otherwise weakened. 

The effect upon ectoplasm across the phantom spectrum - from menhirs to polygeists within hexed objects - are for the most part the same: causing it to ripple and feel repelled before going to gleam and shine regardless of its host’s will. This interestingly affects Mystic’s ‘Deadbreath’ spell, which is flimsy and ill maintained by contrast to solid bodies of ectoplasm, causing it to be unfurled and dispelled in a lit candle’s range or cut through by Siegsmund’s Candle wax like butter..
  
Siegmund’s Candles require [3] Emotes to ignite and will slowly and indefinitely burn (for the remainder of the scenario) with a 5 block radius lest adequately snuffed. Ectoplasm caught in its vapor will then be subject to the above mentioned effects, causing ectoplasm to gleam if kept within range for 2 emotes after ignition; the effects if applied on a spectre past this point will linger for 3 emotes following the ectoplasm’s departure from the Candle’s range, preventing phantoms from using their ‘fading’ ability in this timespan and resetting should the ectoplasm return within said range before the 3 emotes transpire. 

 

Redlines:

 

 -Requires an ST signed item.
-The vapor exhumed from Siegmund's Candles is transparent, rendering them useless for the purpose of smoke screens/ smoke bombs.
-The effects of Siegmund's Incense and Siegmund’s Candles upon ectoplasm are restricted solely to immediate discomfort before gleaming exposure with ectoplasm after two emotes following the candle’s ignition. Ectoplasm will not be inherently damaged or disrupted, merely made to shine.
-Whilst physical contact between the wax and ectoplasm will cause it to gleam instantaneously, being inside the candle’s lit candle’s for 2 emotes after ignition, will give phantoms and mystics an inherent feeling of unease; it is the job of whoever is RPing the Candle or Incense to ensure spectre and mystic players are informed. 
-Ectoplasm forced to gleam will always continue to do so for 3 emotes, or longer if kept in contact with the wax or in a lit candle’s range.
-Unfinished mixtures will burn up in sunlight, and produce heat as regular flame, but strangely not cause damage to people or objects, making it nigh impossible to weaponize and only practical as a deterrent or party trick.
-Eating or trying to directly smoke  Siegmund’s Candles will offer no benefits, nutritional or otherwise.
-The vapor candles will take two emotes after being lit to fill their range, spreading five blocks out in every direction.

-Siegmund candles, though they indefinitely burn upon ignition for the scenario, cannot be used to "ward" doorways with RP signs or anything of the sort. They must be actively activated during an encounter or scenario.
-Tier three.

New (Underlined)

Spoiler

Brief Description:

 “And to ye Sons of Harren I admonish: There is no refuge from the sight of GOD. For He sees all things, and no sin is hidden before him, even in the darkest realms.” 
–To the Harrenites, from the Scroll of the Spirit, given to We the Faithful by the Exalted Prophet Owyn.

 

Siegmund’s Candles was in its time the pride of the Church Militant. First crafted by the Knights of the Black Sepulcher in days of yore, it was said to grant congregations the sight of the Prophet Siegmund himself, celebrated and burnt in swinging thuribles during mass to ward evil spirits from town chapels and city cathedrals, whilst carried as candles or wax coatings by crusaders, that sought to keep the damned at bay in their wars for God. Its existence was long doubted by alchemists and clergymen alike, as any record of how it was initially made seemed lost in the catacombs of the Library of Johannesburg, when the city was laid waste to by mad Emperor Phillip’s thannhium wrath. 

Lost, that is, until one grave-robbing alchemist during their travels was able to pry one a journal from the cold grasp of a Marked Man belonging to the school of the Ox, who’s unfortunate end had come at the hands of a Flugle in the swamps of southern Cunyuan. Preserved in the bog, the journal was written in an odd mix of Flexio, the Material Alphabet and Cathanese, taking some years to translate. Finally, decades later, this artefact of Canonist wisdom would be returned to use.

 

Recipe:

-Lard (base)
-Rigidity x2
-Death x3
-Connection x2
-Light x2
-Dash of Freshly Cremated Descendant Ashes x1
(The ashes of any cremated descendant will suffice: be it a leper’s amputated leg or a witch burned at the stake. The individual's flesh must have been living at most three months [three OOC days] before the potion was created, with all roleplay screenshotted. A ‘dash’ of ashes equates that remaining from a burnt limb or head, with the torso offering two measures if cremated properly. an urn containing the ashes of an entire person would therefore permit 7 dashes appropriate for 7 Siegmund’s Candles)

 

Creation (Optional, only if it requires a specific process)

-All symbols must be ground into separate powders using aurum tools or a polished marble mortar and pestle. These tools are not necessary for the harvesting or storage of regents beforehand, however.
-The lard base must be added to an aurum or marble bowl, equating one candle’s worth.
-The two light symbols ought to be mixed into the base, causing it to take on a pinkish-red colour.
-All steps henceforth must be carried out away from sunlight. Direct exposure to sunlight will cause the mixture in any of the following states to quickly burn up, strangely leaving no mark or damage on surfaces (or individuals) the flame touches.
-The first death symbol should be mixed in, then until the earlier colour is replaced with a dull grey.
-The first symbol of rigidity , and the first symbol of connection, should be added at the same time - within three second of each other, to be precise - and stirred together (pre-stirring these symbols to add as one will not work) until the concoction turns a brilliant white.
-The second symbol of death, followed by a dash of descendant ashes, and third symbol of death should be added then mixed in rapid succession, with no more than ten seconds between each addition. This, if done correctly, will turn the mixture into a soggy vantablack mush. If done incorrectly, the mixture will instantly harden become a useless grey block and be put to waste.
-Finally the second symbol of rigidity must be added, reverting the mixture back to its earlier grey colour. 
-At this point, the mixture must be kept in relative darkness until the later hours of the night, where it must be positioned before dawn so that it might be hit by light from the rising sun. Should this be done properly, the mixture will dry and harden into a malleable wax fit for a candlewick if a base of lard is used, or dry and powder into an incense if a base of distilled water is used.

 

Effects:

Whilst the wax candle is being physically handled, beings made from (or containing, as Mystics do) ectoplasm will forcefully gleam, causing their ghostly forms to shine and be unveiled, instantly ceasing once touch has been broken. 
 
The main use for the incense or wax, however, comes from ignition. When burnt, vapors provoke sources of nearby ectoplasm and cause it to gleam. Mystics and phantoms will feel inclined to avoid it as if physically repelled, a gentle force tugging at their minds with the suggestion to get as far from the burning candle as possible. This can be ignored should any of these creatures be inclined to remain near, though would eventually force them to gleam brightly and create a visible aura over objects and people they are possessing or hiding within, though they will not be otherwise weakened. 

The effect upon ectoplasm across the phantom spectrum - from menhirs to polygeists within hexed objects - are for the most part the same: causing it to ripple and feel repelled before going to gleam and shine regardless of its host’s will. This interestingly affects Mystic’s ‘Deadbreath’ spell, which is flimsy and ill maintained by contrast to solid bodies of ectoplasm, causing it to be unfurled and dispelled in a lit candle’s range or cut through by Siegsmund’s Candle wax like butter..
  
Siegmund’s Candles require [3] Emotes to ignite and will slowly and indefinitely burn (for the remainder of the scenario) with a 5 block radius lest adequately snuffed. The candles distinctly smell of rotting descendant flesh. Ectoplasm caught in its vapor will then be subject to the above mentioned effects, causing ectoplasm to gleam if kept within range for 2 emotes after ignition; the effects if applied on a spectre past this point will linger for 3 emotes following the ectoplasm’s departure from the Candle’s range, preventing phantoms from using their ‘fading’ ability in this timespan and resetting should the ectoplasm return within said range before the 3 emotes transpire. 

 

Redlines:

 

 -Requires an ST signed item.
-The vapor exhumed from Siegmund's Candles is transparent, rendering them useless for the purpose of smoke screens/ smoke bombs.
-The effects of Siegmund's Incense and Siegmund’s Candles upon ectoplasm are restricted solely to immediate discomfort before gleaming exposure with ectoplasm after two emotes following the candle’s ignition. Ectoplasm will not be inherently damaged or disrupted, merely made to shine.
-Whilst physical contact between the wax and ectoplasm will cause it to gleam instantaneously, being inside the candle’s lit candle’s for 2 emotes after ignition, will give phantoms and mystics an inherent feeling of unease; it is the job of whoever is RPing the Candle or Incense to ensure spectre and mystic players are informed. 
-Ectoplasm forced to gleam will always continue to do so for 3 emotes, or longer if kept in contact with the wax or in a lit candle’s range.
-Unfinished mixtures will burn up in sunlight, and produce heat as regular flame, but strangely not cause damage to people or objects, making it nigh impossible to weaponize and only practical as a deterrent or party trick.
-Eating or trying to directly smoke  Siegmund’s Candles will offer no benefits, nutritional or otherwise.
-The vapor candles will take two emotes after being lit to fill their range, spreading five blocks out in every direction.

-Siegmund candles, though they indefinitely burn upon ignition for the scenario, cannot be used to "ward" doorways with RP signs or anything of the sort. They must be actively activated during an encounter or scenario.
-Tier three.

Reasoning:

You can't just walk into a graveyard anymore and commit the minor sin of grabbing a random urn pot and using it in your recipes, and the smell might hint towards the candle being an evil creation.

No rakir so you don't need to be a demon, but you might think twice before creating it as a regular dude.

[wytch 870]

-1. We already have so few ways of reliably exposing most darkspawn, and this is the only one that actually affects Mystics specifically, given the redline within Mysticism is that Mystic Blades feel some pain from Aurum and that's it, as Conjurer's aren't affected by it at all. This is coming from an active ex-Mystic, who never once over 6 and a half months encountered a Siegmund's Candle with the lore as is, though my personal experience doesn't speak for everyone.

 

I'm also considering the lore side of things here, and how it feels, simply put, weird for it to require fresh ashes as opposed to any ashes. Ashes don't lose potency or anything else over time, correctly stored ashes are extremely stable and can last indefinitely. Ergo, taking some from a random graveyard, if they were properly stored, works perfectly well.

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

1 minute ago, wytch said:

-1. We already have so few ways of reliably exposing most darkspawn, and this is the only one that actually affects Mystics specifically, given the redline within Mysticism is that Mystic Blades feel some pain from Aurum and that's it, as Conjurer's aren't affected by it at all. This is coming from an active ex-Mystic, who never once over 6 and a half months encountered a Siegmund's Candle with the lore as is, though my personal experience doesn't speak for everyone.

 

I'm also considering the lore side of things here, and how it feels, simply put, weird for it to require fresh ashes as opposed to any ashes. Ashes don't lose potency or anything else over time, correctly stored ashes are extremely stable and can last indefinitely. Ergo, taking some from a random graveyard, if they were properly stored, works perfectly well.

Every lore says that things containted within a body [lifeforce, soul juice, mana] decays on death. I don't see how in infernal alchemy, turning a corpse into ash and then into a candle somehow taps into soul stuff but even still, there is no harm in requiring it to be fresh.

 

 

[Slorbin 2932]

9 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

Every lore says that things containted within a body [lifeforce, soul juice, mana] decays on death. I don't see how in infernal alchemy, turning a corpse into ash and then into a candle somehow taps into soul stuff but even still, there is no harm in requiring it to be fresh.

 

 

Exactly this… Most body parts are supposed to be fresh. Even the custom reagents in infernal and cannibal alchemy! Or at the very least - they have to come from a real person.

 

It’s meant so you can’t powergame having an infinite supply of bodies. You have to get these things from a REAL person.

In fact, unless you're powergaming where you get the ashes from, this amendment affects you none.

[wytch 870]

7 minutes ago, Slorbin said:

Exactly this… Most body parts are supposed to be fresh. Even the custom reagents in infernal and cannibal alchemy!

 

It’s meant so you can’t powergame having an infinite supply of bodies. You have to get these things from a REAL person.

This isn't an issue of powergaming, nor have I ever seen anyone powergaming an infinite supply of bodies, and I haven't heard of anything of the sort either, it feels like an imagined scenario to justify making the one surefire way of exposure difficult enough nobody is going to bother, which gives the mystics, who already only have one method of exposure the necromancer treatment of never being able to be exposed because people don't die often enough to provide ashes and this would then lead to murder squads to just gank random people to make candles. Which isn't fun RP for anyone.

[Swgrclaŋ 697]

20 minutes ago, wytch said:

-1. We already have so few ways of reliably exposing most darkspawn, and this is the only one that actually affects Mystics specifically, given the redline within Mysticism is that Mystic Blades feel some pain from Aurum and that's it, as Conjurer's aren't affected by it at all. This is coming from an active ex-Mystic, who never once over 6 and a half months encountered a Siegmund's Candle with the lore as is, though my personal experience doesn't speak for everyone.

 

I'm also considering the lore side of things here, and how it feels, simply put, weird for it to require fresh ashes as opposed to any ashes. Ashes don't lose potency or anything else over time, correctly stored ashes are extremely stable and can last indefinitely. Ergo, taking some from a random graveyard, if they were properly stored, works perfectly well.

There should be less incentive for any revealing methods to be able to detect Descendant sorcerer characters in the first place. This amendment is in the right direction, but really should suggest the removal of the gleam reveal effect for mortal Mystics overall. The candle is better applicable to actual undead entities, and not just the practitioners. The rarity or means to obtain it wouldn't necessarily matter in this case.

[Castelleo 8]

you dont know it, but I’m trying to blow up sigismund candles lore page with my mind rn

[Slorbin 2932]

15 minutes ago, wytch said:

This isn't an issue of powergaming, nor have I ever seen anyone powergaming an infinite supply of bodies, and I haven't heard of anything of the sort either, it feels like an imagined scenario to justify making the one surefire way of exposure difficult enough nobody is going to bother, which gives the mystics, who already only have one method of exposure the necromancer treatment of never being able to be exposed because people don't die often enough to provide ashes and this would then lead to murder squads to just gank random people to make candles. Which isn't fun RP for anyone.

Taking ashes from a graveyard = An infinite supply of bodies. Basically untrackable to ST.

Requiring ashes from a real, actual person with a timegate = Body supply does not become infinite.

The point of infernal alchemy kinda is that the evildoers have murder squads to collect shit from people... Sacrifice are like darkspawn's whole thing.

That's why it's a rare recipe...

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

21 minutes ago, Swgrclaŋ said:

There should be less incentive for any revealing methods to be able to detect Descendant sorcerer characters in the first place. This amendment is in the right direction, but really should suggest the removal of the gleam reveal effect for mortal Mystics overall. The candle is better applicable to actual undead entities, and not just the practitioners. The rarity or means to obtain it wouldn't necessarily matter in this case.

st blanket deny this change for.......reasons they wont state beyond "we dont want changes"

[wytch 870]

49 minutes ago, Slorbin said:

Taking ashes from a graveyard = An infinite supply of bodies. Basically untrackable to ST.

Requiring ashes from a real, actual person with a timegate = Body supply does not become infinite.

The point of infernal alchemy kinda is that the evildoers have murder squads to collect shit from people... Sacrifice are like darkspawn's whole thing.

That's why it's a rare recipe...

Why would the darkspawn make candles to expose their own kind? It isn't darkspawn making these candles.

[Slorbin 2932]

5 minutes ago, wytch said:

Why would the darkspawn make candles to expose their own kind? It isn't darkspawn making these candles.

dude. all the darkspawn are at war with each other right now. why do you think haelun'or happened

a necromancer ratted the mystics out to the naztherak and both organized this secret raid through empire contacts

it's the war of the evils from the bottom to the top

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

28 minutes ago, wytch said:

Why would the darkspawn make candles to expose their own kind? It isn't darkspawn making these candles.

Infernal Alchemy something something "its from hell" 

 

infernal alchemy generally pertains to moz through reagents or effects. the candles are the sole exception and its fairly obvious if you just read the candles. They don't require infernal reagents whatsoever to produce, they don't deal with anything infernal in their useage or creation, and specifically force an overt, unavoidable reveal for the duration of an RP session upon being lit. 

 

There is nothing else that has that kinda stuff on lotc atm. I frankly would just like to see inf alch shelfed since it doesnt really contribute anything infernal at all.

[PrinceJose270 1211]

COuld work. Likewise you could potentally add a mixture to make it smell something else. or at least muffle the bad smell. (idk funny scented candles that scare ghost sound fun)

[wytch 870]

6 hours ago, Slorbin said:

dude. all the darkspawn are at war with each other right now. why do you think haelun'or happened

a necromancer ratted the mystics out to the naztherak and both organized this secret raid through empire contacts

it's the war of the evils from the bottom to the top

This is irrelevant to the actual lore piece we're discussing here, nonetheless. Not here to argue in-character things OOC, I was being somewhat factitious, but tone is hard to convey over text.

 

7 hours ago, Swgrclaŋ said:

There should be less incentive for any revealing methods to be able to detect Descendant sorcerer characters in the first place. This amendment is in the right direction, but really should suggest the removal of the gleam reveal effect for mortal Mystics overall. The candle is better applicable to actual undead entities, and not just the practitioners. The rarity or means to obtain it wouldn't necessarily matter in this case.

I can agree with this, changing the gleam and maybe have it target only invisible mystics and continue to fulfill its actual purpose and focus against ghosts in general, which then lessens the actual worth of mass-producing these. The rarity is in the recipe and obtaining it in-character, so the exact ingredients wouldn't really matter at that point.

 

I see the reasoning in changing the recipe, but think that the idea that Descendant ashes, at all, deteriorate over time is silly. Reasonings for souls, mana, etc specifically aside, I don't believe any of that mentions descendant ashes specifically, and this is not at all how human ashes work. We might need to start refrigerating our dead, if they spoil.

[spaazmatism 1017]

14 hours ago, wytch said:

Why would the darkspawn make candles to expose their own kind? It isn't darkspawn making these candles.

 

there is not some monolithic darkspawn community. infernals and mystics are also constantly at odds