Combat Overview

[Konar 0]

Hello, first post here (aside from character application).

 

During the application process, i thought i had seen a guide or rule page somewhere that talked about powergaming and gave two examples of RP combat, with and without powergaming.

 

I can't seem to find it now, and the search doesn't seem to turn up anything.

 

I also have a question about the death penalty.

 

I was talking to someone about it last night, but still couldn't figure out: when i die, do i lose 30 minutes of memory, or all the memory leading up to my character's death?

 

Also, where is it a rule that assassinations lead to permadeath? I saw that mentioned over in the guilds section, but hadn't seen anything about it during the application process.

 

Also, i think the Wiki should really have a page on combat, someplace where all the combat related things can be found linked to from one page.

[Primrose 59]

For Powergaming, think about this: Cheating is a form of powergaming, when they can do things that they should not be able to do and do it before anyone can react. 

 

As for the Death penalty, you lose the last 30 minutes (in real life) of your character's memory leading up to your character's death. But it is always safe to simply forget everything (no matter how long it takes) leading up to your character's death. This will solve a lot of problems when deciding what you do and do not remember. 

 

Sadly there is no rule about assassinations and Permakills. You have to oocly agree to perma kill your character. Once you do, you get a 1 week time line to reverse that choice. This one week rule is lifted if you choice to kill yourself, which then you are dead and can not come back without powergaming. 

 

I hope this was helpful to you.

[~ Fiend ~ 611]

I don't know where the definition is, but powergaming is making yourself more powerful than anyone else, or emoting in a way that doesn't give others time to react. You can google if you like, just look at any roleplay group's definition.

 

Powergaming: Boris slices off Vladislav's head. (Doesn't allow Vlad to do or say anything, deciding his fate unfairly.)

Powergaming: "I've been a mage for a week now, so I'm as good as this guy who's been a mage for 100 years!"

Powergaming: In the thick of battle, gaining a new skill that saves you.

Not: Boris swings his sword at Vladislav's neck. (Lets Vlad react, he could dodge, or parry, or otherwise fight back.)

Not: "I've only been a mage for a week, I'll be stronger when I have more practice."

Not: Training. :)

 

The 30 minutes rule has bounced back and forth over the years. The rule is that you lose 30 minutes so that you don't know who killed you, which is why it's also accepted that you lose all memory leading up to it. Just try to think reasonably, the rule is to prevent you metagaming who killed you and going after them.

So if you get bandited on the road, you don't forget that you talked to your wife just ten minutes prior or what you were on your way to do, you just forget the bandits. If you get tortured to death, though, you do lose that memory as well, because then you'd know who did it.

 

The permakill for assassinations rule is not server-wide, some guilds just insist that you follow such a rule to be a part of them. Several guilds have perma-kill clauses, but they state so at the door. They're allowed, because it's your choice to join or not.

 

And yeah... just wait 'til you have to deal with  Nexus.

[AGP 3169]

 

-snip-

 

 

To clarify the 30 minute thing. In the rules, it states you cannot return to your place of death for 30 minutes, and that you lose all memory of the Rp events leading up to your death. Nowhere does it state you lose exactly 30 minutes of memory, 30 minutes applies /only/ to returning to death. The memories you lose are anything that led to your death. If you died on the road to Leyulin, you do not remember you were on the road to Leyulin, as that would give you a clue as to where you died or maybe who killed you (Remember going to Leyulin then waking up in the CT? Maybe it was Leyulin elves who killed you!). 

[ChonGojDragonski 317]

As for the whole combat thing, there are primairly two types of combat. PvP and rolling. PvP is default and this is where two characters just have a PvP fight to determine the outcome of said fight. Then there is rolling which must be agreed upon by both parties, and it is effectively this. (Green is for Boris, red is for Vlad to show who rolls and who emotes.)

 

Boris attempts to slice off Vladislav's head.

 

/roll 20 = 8

 

/roll 20 = 11

 

Vladislav manages to lift his blade in time to parry the blow.

 

Then Vlad would emote, doing the same thing. The attacker emotes then rolls, and the defender rolls to see how he should react to the attackers emote. If his roll is higher, he shall defend the blow, if it's lower he shall take it. Of course, the numbers do matter. If Boris rolls a 3 and Vlad rolls a 15, he could make his emote be like,

 

Vladislav easily sidesteps the blow, chuckling at his enemies desprate attempts to finish the fight.

 

Or if the attacker rolls something like a 18 and you roll a 3 as defense, obviously the wound will hurt more or less. Like, let us say Vlad rolled a 7 to Boris' 8. Then he would emote something like,

 

Vladislav barely dodges the blow but recieves a shallow cut running from his neck to his jaw.

 

But if Vlad rolled a 1 and Boris for example rolled a 16, the emote would be more something like this.

 

Vladislav is surprised at the sudden ferocity of Boris and is quite slow attempting to dodge the attack. The blade scores a deep cut running from the base of his shoulder to his neck. He is bleeding profusely.

 

Sorry for that lengthy explenation but I hope that answered your questions about combat.

[Konar 0]

Thanks for all the responses! I was really hoping someone could post a link, it's really bothering me that i could find it yesterday but not today...  :\ 

 

So, to clarify, would the following be powergaming?

 

Konar raises his hands passively, making no motion toward his sword.

Player B shoots an arrow, from 4 meters away, at Konar's chest.

Konar slaps his hands together, catching the arrow.

 

And this?

 

Player B shoots another arrow at Konar's chest.

Konar grabs his sword out of the sheath and the arrow glances off of it. He then slides the sword back into its sheath. 

 

Player C draws his sword, and approaches Konar taking a swipe at his head.

Konar ducks under the blade and leaps to the side, positioning C between him and B.

 

Assuming all of this was done so that Players B and C were in full view of Konar, and Konar had ample time to react, is Konar powergaming? Most of the examples i'm seeing of powergaming are proactive, not reactive.

 

These are examples drawn from real RP combat, and nobody involved in/observing the event complained about powergaming until AFTER the combat was over.

 

Also, does the whole 

 

 

• Both sides must agree on using either text-based combat or mechanics-based combat. If both sides disagree, then you must use the default which is mechanics-based combat. There must be sufficient roleplay leading up to any combat scenario.
•  

 

thing apply to all combat instances? Because it sure didn't happen prior to the examples above. It wasn't a determined "i'm gonna kill you for this, how do we want to do it?" it sorta just meandered from insults and backhanded courtesy to someone ordering their underling to "take care of" Konar. Five boring RP posts later, the arrow finally left the bow while I just stood there trying to talk my way out of it, all the while combat had not been officially declared...

 

Also, is there any Attribute Score system to differentiate between someone who is strong but slow, and someone who is healthy and fast, for the sake of those rolls? Like, Roll d20+2 Dexterity. I prefer there to be some representation of my character's skill in this kind of thing. Rolling for stuff is half-way there, but leaving success/failure completely to chance is... yuck...

 

I've been playing tabletop RPGs for years now, and pure roleplay of combat does not quite jive with me.

 

Thanks again for all the help! I'm obviously rusty at this, i used to do some play by post RP back in the day, but it's been around 15 years, everything i've done since then has been a different format. I'm eager to learn, but i really kinda got my spirit broke by this attempt at noob killing. For me, RP is a social thing, not about players trying to one-up each other, seeing how evil they can be, and killing innocent passersby for asking questions and having the wrong hometown. If that's a fluke experience, not indicative of the greater populous, then i might give it another go, but if half the populous is that cutthroat... I probably am just better off finding a different RP environment.

 

That being said, so far the community of players has been great, just the RP rubbed me wrong.

 

Peace y'all!

[Ark 2835]

 

I don't know where the definition is, but powergaming is making yourself more powerful than anyone else, or emoting in a way that doesn't give others time to react. You can google if you like, just look at any roleplay group's definition.

 

Powergaming: Boris slices off Vladislav's head. (Doesn't allow Vlad to do or say anything, deciding his fate unfairly.)

Powergaming: "I've been a mage for a week now, so I'm as good as this guy who's been a mage for 100 years!"

Powergaming: In the thick of battle, gaining a new skill that saves you.

Not: Boris swings his sword at Vladislav's neck. (Lets Vlad react, he could dodge, or parry, or otherwise fight back.)

Not: "I've only been a mage for a week, I'll be stronger when I have more practice."

Not: Training. :)

 

 

good men of raev never hurt one another..

[Flurgh 78]

Don't you get permakilled if you commit suicide?

[~ Fiend ~ 611]

Yeah, I don't know where it's from and I don't enjoy falling down the wiki rabbit hole. Sorry.

One at a time:

 

Konar raises his hands passively, making no motion toward his sword.

Player B shoots an arrow, from 4 meters away, at Konar's chest.

Konar slaps his hands together, catching the arrow.

 

This would be considered powergaming because the community in general doesn't think people can react fast enough to catch or physically respond to arrows.

Regardless of whether that's correct or people agree, that's just the assertion, and in combat with people you don't know OOCly it goes either way whether something you think works is powergaming so it's best to settle for convention.

 

Player B shoots another arrow at Konar's chest.

Konar grabs his sword out of the sheath and the arrow glances off of it. He then slides the sword back into its sheath.

 

People generally insist on the drawing of a sword being its own emote, not used as a reaction, not done in conjunction with something else. Again, regardless of whether you agree with it, the convention for reaction times is kind of slow.

 

Player C draws his sword, and approaches Konar taking a swipe at his head.

Konar ducks under the blade and leaps to the side, positioning C between him and B.

 

Ducking under a blade swung at your head is okay, provided you saw it coming. The thing I can see being brought to attention is 'leaps'. If you're in the process of ducking, what you do to move sideways would be more of a step, as an already hunched person wouldn't see use in jumping, especially when they intended to duck in the first place.

To your sidenote, yeah, people who are going to get upset usually do so after combat has finished.

 

Also, does the whole 

[404, quotes not stackable]

thing apply to all combat instances? Because it sure didn't happen prior to the examples above. It wasn't a determined "i'm gonna kill you for this, how do we want to do it?" it sorta just meandered from insults and backhanded courtesy to someone ordering their underling to "take care of" Konar. Five boring RP posts later, the arrow finally left the bow while I just stood there trying to talk my way out of it, all the while combat had not been officially declared...

 

It does. Essentially, at the point where actual fighting occurs, bows and swords and killing and blood fighting, you have to decide to RP or PVP. If people don't agree, it defaults to PVP.

In the case you describe, at the point where the guy started shooting, combat had been initiated, so they chose to RP fight.

 

Also, is there any Attribute Score system 

 

Went ahead and cut off the quote because.. nope. There's not. People are generally expected to roleplay their character's particular advantages, i.e. just whatever the convention for their race's combat style is. People who are good at RP fighting are usually well-trained in character and have a particular advantage, but by default, dwarves have stamina, orcs have strength, elves have speed, and humans have.. idk, supposedly "numbers" but really they'd just be balanced one on one.

It depends on your character, but those are the general ones.

As for rolling, usually when it's used, it's totally random. It might be used on a pass/fail scale sometimes, though, where a lower number is failing your action and a higher number is succeeding out of a roll of 20.

 

Thanks again for all the help! I'm obviously rusty at this, i used to do some play by post RP back in the day, but it's been around 15 years, everything i've done since then has been a different format. I'm eager to learn, but i really kinda got my spirit broke by this attempt at noob killing. For me, RP is a social thing, not about players trying to one-up each other, seeing how evil they can be, and killing innocent passersby for asking questions and having the wrong hometown. If that's a fluke experience, not indicative of the greater populous, then i might give it another go, but if half the populous is that cutthroat... I probably am just better off finding a different RP environment.

 

Alright, well.. I'm biased. Just remember that.

Obviously there are good groups on LotC, but from what I understand about 60-75% of people play evil characters and random killing is rampant. (Not just on noobs, on anyone whose face isn't well known, so new characters of old players get the treatment too.)

There's been a war going on, so that could be some of it, and I'd encourage you to give it at least one more try. This server is heavily combat-and-victory-oriented, though, and the kind of social and laid-back environment people from that kind of other-RP background are used to is really far from what this server is. It can be fun, but it's not like forum RP- not just because of the game, but because of how it's handled and how the community thinks.

But again, that's just my thoughts. Any further questions you can feel free to PM me.

 

-----~-----~-----~-----~-----~-----

 

good men of raev never hurt one another..

 

I just needed names, idk.

 

Don't you get permakilled if you commit suicide?

 

Yes, one of the few confirmed and irreversible permakills is suicide.

[Flurgh 78]

Konar raises his hands passively, making no motion toward his sword.

Player B shoots an arrow, from 4 meters away, at Konar's chest.

Konar slaps his hands together, catching the arrow.

 

 

This would be considered powergaming because the community in general doesn't think people can react fast enough to catch or physically respond to arrows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would that not be powergaming in it self to shoot someone with an arrow and then claim that he can't respond to it because you can't physically react to an arrow?

 

Could you not just emote that you see Player B pulling the string slightly further back right before he is about to release the arrow and charge at him or move away?

 

Or maybe emote something like *notices that player Bs gaze fixes at his chest and takes a step to the side* /roll 

 

EDIT: I'm bad with forums

[Konar 0]

 

 

from what I understand about 60-75% of people play evil characters and random killing is rampant. (Not just on noobs, on anyone whose face isn't well known, so new characters of old players get the treatment too.)

 

Hmmm... very little from that paragraph actually sounded appealing to me. Thanks for the honest upfront though! Like i said, the players i've encountered so far seem awesome, but dat roleplay...

 

The AT who approved my character commented that it was nice to see a character with kinder ambitions for a change. That should have been my first clue i guess.

 

Anyhoo, thanks again to everyone for the help. Happy gaming and good luck to you all!

[~ Fiend ~ 611]

Would that not be powergaming in it self to shoot someone with an arrow and then claim that he can't respond to it because you can't physically react to an arrow?

 

Could you not just emote that you see Player B pulling the string slightly further back right before he is about to release the arrow and charge at him or move away?

 

Or maybe emote something like *notices that player Bs gaze fixes at his chest and takes a step to the side* /roll 

 

EDIT: I'm bad with forums

 

Maybe, but there's also the argument that it's not conventionally acceptable to fire an arrow in one emote, you'd need some indication the guy had a bow and had nocked an arrow, so they could've reacted at that stage as you said. I was just going on the situation he presented.

It all depends on how it's worded I suppose, but yes, there are ways of reacting. It's just not generally considered acceptable to interfere with the arrow. I don't know why that's the convention, I just know it is. You can still dodge, or charge, or whatever else.

 

Hmmm... very little from that paragraph actually sounded appealing to me. Thanks for the honest upfront though! Like i said, the players i've encountered so far seem awesome, but dat roleplay...

 

The AT who approved my character commented that it was nice to see a character with kinder ambitions for a change. That should have been my first clue i guess.

 

Anyhoo, thanks again to everyone for the help. Happy gaming and good luck to you all!

 

Sorry friendo. Best of luck to you, and much fun roleplays or tabletops.

[Konar 0]

 

Would that not be powergaming in it self to shoot someone with an arrow and then claim that he can't respond to it because you can't physically react to an arrow?

 

Could you not just emote that you see Player B pulling the string slightly further back right before he is about to release the arrow and charge at him or move away?

 

Or maybe emote something like *notices that player Bs gaze fixes at his chest and takes a step to the side* /roll 

 

This is probably going to be my last post here, but i wanted to clarify.

 

None of the examples i gave above were word for word, they captured the gist and spirit of what happened, but not the actual words used.

 

For example, where i say i leaped to the side, i think i actually used the word "maneuvered", and where Player B shoots at Konar's chest, was actually the culmination of about 5-6 RP statements, any one of which i could have responded to with physical action, but instead tried to talk my way out of, eventually gave up, got bored, and then was prompted by them to react to the arrow. So, in a way, yeah, my character totally saw it coming. He even had his hands up, snapping them together wouldn't have been such a big deal, but, eh, whatevs.

 

Basic gist: don't take what i wrote as the gospel truth. I never intended to misrepresent anyone, and a million questions and what if's could be raised based on my incomplete report of the battle. I don't have screenshots of the fight, and i already forgot the people's names, so it's best to just put it in the past where it belongs. I only hope that this discussion helps answer someone else's questions if they have the same ones i had.

 

I think the main thing that bothered me (aside from the ambushing) was that the people i duelled with said nothing about the powergaming until after the fight. Mid fight the server actually reset, and i got back on before they did, looked around, saw they weren't there, and left. I made it all the way to the next town before they messaged me. I offered to go back and finish the fight, but they expressed their agitation about the powergaming and told me it didn't matter, then just logged off. I then contacted the only GM that was on at the time, confirmed with him/her/it their accusations, accepted the decision, and logged off myself.

 

So ya, lesson to be learned: if you see someone powergaming, confront them as it happens, not after. Otherwise, you're just letting yourself be cheated, and i really don't want to cheat anyone and i doubt anyone else wants to be cheated. :)

[Flurgh 78]

-I don't even understand what I just wrote myself.-

[TheBareSheet 194]

Moved to the Archive. It shall be sorted into the appropriate category shortly.